marijuana

[Darkstar1]

If drugs were legal, the people that will do them just to buck the system will never get into trouble, the people that will do them anyways if they are legal or not, would be legal. Think of the tax money that could be generated if the government regulated their sale.

 

The biggie, look at the crime that would just go away because they are no longer illegal. Look at all the crime associated with cocaine/crack. If legalized, all of that crime, and I mean all it would cease immediately.

 

A person should be left up to themselves at the proper age to decide if drugs are something they wish to do.

 

Pot...... it's less worse than alcohol on the body and the overall effects that it generates.

 

I don't advocate drug use for anyone under 18 at all. At that age you are able to make up you own mind about such things.

 

As far as killing brain cells... only the weak ones die anyways. No big loss.

[heatherd1201]

I dont really agree with this post.

 

If drugs were legal, the people that will do them just to buck the system will never get into trouble, the people that will do them anyways if they are legal or not, would be legal. Think of the tax money that could be generated if the government regulated their sale.

 

The biggie, look at the crime that would just go away because they are no longer illegal. Look at all the crime associated with cocaine/crack. If legalized, all of that crime, and I mean all it would cease immediately.

 

A person should be left up to themselves at the proper age to decide if drugs are something they wish to do.

 

Pot...... it's less worse than alcohol on the body and the overall effects that it generates.

 

I don't advocate drug use for anyone under 18 at all. At that age you are able to make up you own mind about such things.

 

As far as killing brain cells... only the weak ones die anyways. No big loss.

 

Not all drugs should be legalized. Most drugs can kill you the first time you try them. That is a BIG liability should they all be legal.

You are very niave if you think that all drug related crime would stop if it was legal. You remember prohibition? Alcohol was no longer legal so it was put in a position to become distibuted the way drug dealing is today. Moonshine..... So today it is legal for those 21 and over. Has all alcohol related crime stopped for those that are 21 and drink? No. Now if youre saying that there would be less crime amongst drug dealers...because there wouldnt be any....so there cant possibly be crime related to it....yeah. Any drug that the government legalized and regulates is not going to be as "good" as what others can make in their homes. There would still be "underground" drugs being sold because its better than the cheap crap the government sells for way too much money. So the dealing and stealing and fighting and shooting would still occur.

And saying that legalizing drugs for people over 18 is ok because at 18 you can make those decisions.....yes, you are an adult but can you really logically make the decision to go do heroin now that youre 18. Thats not a logical decision to make therefor if you make it, you are NOT old enough to make sound choices. Not that choosing to do a drug like heroin or cocaine is a smart decision at any age. But you see where Im going with it.

The weak brain cells are not the only ones that die anyway. Brain cells are not like blood. You start out with a certain amount and thats all you have for the rest of your life. While I am pro-pot and I VERY anti-everything else. Smoking weed does kill brain cells. But shooting heroin and snorting coke kills sooooooo many more. And when all your "weak" brain cells have been killed off, then it starts working on all the other ones. Until you have very few left and you can no longer make decisions, speak, understand, or have any motor skills. Because it takes brain cells to do those things. BTW- comprehension and reaction are the first things to go, so no more driving a car because your brain no longer knows how to operate one safely.

In short, legalizing ALL drugs would be a very very very bad idea.

 

While I do occasionally smoke (albeit in my own home and not going anywhere when I do it) and do believe that the consequences for doing it should be greatly lessoned, I think that the kid that started this thread should not be smoking weed. It doesnt sound like he really "wants" to.

[Darkstar1]

It's not my fault that you disagree with my all drugs should be legal comment. If you legalize pot, why not the rest of them. You admit that you use pot. That makes you a criminal, doesn't it?

[shadowofman]

Not all drugs should be legalized. Most drugs can kill you the first time you try them. That is a BIG liability should they all be legal.

A severe overstatement, and ultimately, completely wrong. Unless you have an allergic reaction (1 in a million chance) or you take a dangerously high dose. Apply this statement to alcohol and you see the rediculousness of it.

Any drug that the government legalized and regulates is not going to be as "good" as what others can make in their homes. There would still be "underground" drugs being sold because its better than the cheap crap the government sells for way too much money. So the dealing and stealing and fighting and shooting would still occur.

Yeah, but instead of organized gangs of ruthless capitalistic cartels. It would be tax evasion crimes. Some guy growing his own stash instead of paying over taxed, government approved swag. An overzealous ATF&M is a different story. Not all crime would disappear, but most violent crime would.

Smoking weed does kill brain cells. But shooting heroin and snorting coke kills sooooooo many more.

Well so does religion, lets make that illegal.

But really, parents and individual respondsibility, anyone. If you want to kill all your brain cells, you should have the right to do that.

We need to treat drug use as a health issue, instead of a criminal issue.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Not all crime would disappear, but most violent crime would.

 

I don’t know, shadow. People have to “pay” for their addictions one way or another. I don’t think we’d see a decrease in petty crime (robbery, theft, muggings, breaking and entering, identity theft). I also don’t think we’d see any change in gang violence between those tax evading entrepreneurs you mentioned who are competing with one another for territory and business. And your average Joe who doesn’t want to risk his reputation, profession or job, isn’t going to want to volunteer his name to some government agency list regulating his drug intake. He’s going to sneak off quietly to the little entrepreneur on the street corner or back ally somewhere.

 

I don’t even want to imagine how our taxes and insurance premiums would go up if we lifted the legal flood gates to some of these highly dangerous and addictive substances. Already, they can’t build the rehab clinics fast enough to handle all the people on the waiting list. And the little guy, who’s collecting unemployment and/or government welfare because his legal drug habit has made him unmotivated and unemployable .. . isn’t going to have the health insurance or financial resources to pay for his treatment or rehabilitation even if he wants it. So who gets stuck flipping the bill for that??

 

And I don’t even want to imagine a world where I have to worry that the surgeon in charge of my operation may be legally high on drugs. That the school teacher or day care provider I entrust my children with might be shooting up or snorting coke while on the job. If it becomes legal to do so, than what recourse does the rest of society have to regulate or prosecute those individuals who put the rest of us at risk?

 

YOU may want to live in a world like that, but not me! I’ve seen enough of what drugs can do to people, both in my private and professional experience. And no thanks, I want no part of that Hell.

[littlekitty]

Some people are more prone to suffer problems with mental illness that others through pot use. But that's because they were dispositioned that way in the first place.

 

Many people can use pot for long periods of time with no great ill effect, other than the usual effects of smoking.

 

I myself was a daily user for many, many years. I stopped in January and haven't looked back. Although I've had the odd 'drag' at parties.

 

I did see myself as reliant on the pot when I was doing it. Having given up, I see that I was not. It was habit, not addiction.

 

I did suffer some withdrawal symptoms. I was more tense, quick to temper and stressed. In fact I was a b*tch to live with. But over the course of about 4 months this tapered off, and I would actually say I'm a little more laid back that I was before!!

[heatherd1201]

I said that there are drugs that can kill you te first time you do them and you replyed:

A severe overstatement, and ultimately, completely wrong. Unless you have an allergic reaction (1 in a million chance) or you take a dangerously high dose. Apply this statement to alcohol and you see the rediculousness of it.

 

Let me inform you of something. There ARE many drugs that can kill you the first time you do them. You do not have to have an "allergic reaction" or a "dangerously high does" in order to do it.

My brother was my best friend. I was there in the room with him the first time he tried heroin. Wasnt really the best place for either of us to be but our cousin was selling weed, we wanted some, we went there. Our cousin was there shooting up at the time and I told my brother that I wanted to leave. He said "no, we have to stick around for a few minutes". Our cousin said "hey ____ you should try this" Brother said no thanks, cousin convinced him. Gave him a small amount just so he could try it. Cousin injected the needle for him because he was scared of needles. My brother had done coke the day before and I reamed him for it. I was yelling at him for what he was doing now. 15 mintues after he shot up I was giving him CPR. He went to the hospital, they pumped his stomach and did all kinds of things(while he was in a coma) to try to keep him alive. I was at his funeral 4 days later. So dont for a second try to tell me that a drug that powerful CANT kill you the first time you do it.

[littlekitty]

I said that there are drugs that can kill you te first time you do them and you replyed:

 

 

Let me inform you of something. There ARE many drugs that can kill you the first time you do them. You do not have to have an "allergic reaction" or a "dangerously high does" in order to do it.

My brother was my best friend. I was there in the room with him the first time he tried heroin. Wasnt really the best place for either of us to be but our cousin was selling weed, we wanted some, we went there. Our cousin was there shooting up at the time and I told my brother that I wanted to leave. He said "no, we have to stick around for a few minutes". Our cousin said "hey ____ you should try this" Brother said no thanks, cousin convinced him. Gave him a small amount just so he could try it. Cousin injected the needle for him because he was scared of needles. My brother had done coke the day before and I reamed him for it. I was yelling at him for what he was doing now. 15 mintues after he shot up I was giving him CPR. He went to the hospital, they pumped his stomach and did all kinds of things(while he was in a coma) to try to keep him alive. I was at his funeral 4 days later. So dont for a second try to tell me that a drug that powerful CANT kill you the first time you do it.

 

 

I'm really sorry you had to go through that.

[heatherd1201]

It was 8 years ago. It still haunts me sometimes. Watching my brother die right in front of me was hard. But i worked for a long time with a foundation for drug education for "children". And it prevented me from having ANY kind of a desire to do drugs like that. Yes, I do smoke but to me, its not the same.

Darkstar told me that smoking weed makes me a criminal. You can call me a criminal all you want. Yes it is illegal and yes, i do it. I believe that there are a lot worse things i could do. Smoking is a very big stress reliever for me. It does not interfere with any other aspect of my life.

Have you never done anyting illegal? Did you drink before you were 21?

[shadowofman]

I don’t know, shadow. People have to “pay” for their addictions one way or another. I don’t think we’d see a decrease in petty crime (robbery, theft, muggings, breaking and entering, identity theft). I also don’t think we’d see any change in gang violence between those tax evading entrepreneurs you mentioned who are competing with one another for territory and business. And your average Joe who doesn’t want to risk his reputation, profession or job, isn’t going to want to volunteer his name to some government agency list regulating his drug intake. He’s going to sneak off quietly to the little entrepreneur on the street corner or back ally somewhere.

I did say, that not all crime would go away. Chances are, harder drugs would require prescriptions. People would still steal. Gangs would be out of the drug buisiness though. There would be no territories for drug dealing. Joe Blow would get his joints from the 7-11. Prostitution would maybe take over as the blackmarket pin. And no one would be risking any profession for getting joints from the 7-11.

I don’t even want to imagine how our taxes and insurance premiums would go up if we lifted the legal flood gates to some of these highly dangerous and addictive substances. Already, they can’t build the rehab clinics fast enough to handle all the people on the waiting list. And the little guy, who’s collecting unemployment and/or government welfare because his legal drug habit has made him unmotivated and unemployable .. . isn’t going to have the health insurance or financial resources to pay for his treatment or rehabilitation even if he wants it. So who gets stuck flipping the bill for that??

I really don't think there would be more drug users if this stuff was legal. I think the exact same number of people would do drugs. I don't think jail deters people at all. I fully admit that I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

And I don’t even want to imagine a world where I have to worry that the surgeon in charge of my operation may be legally high on drugs. That the school teacher or day care provider I entrust my children with might be shooting up or snorting coke while on the job. If it becomes legal to do so, than what recourse does the rest of society have to regulate or prosecute those individuals who put the rest of us at risk?

This is what I mean, you should have the same level of fear for this scenario NOW. You can do any of these things drunk now, why do you think we will tolerate this behavior later.

[shadowofman]

15 mintues after he shot up I was giving him CPR. He went to the hospital, they pumped his stomach and did all kinds of things(while he was in a coma) to try to keep him alive.

Sorry about that.

Why did they pump his stomach? Did you tell them it was alcohol?

What exactly killed him?

[heatherd1201]

They pumped his stomach because they did not know what all he had taken. They werent going to trust me saying " we smoke weed but this was the first time" cause I was young. So they pumped his stomach "just in case". But it did no good. He went too long without oxygen so his brain was fried..

[shadowofman]

So was it respiratory arrest? They should have looked for tracks, smelled for alcohol on his breath,....something! Interigated you more!

The pump was not nessessary, and may have killed him.

 

All emotion aside, heroin is not a kind drug, I don't suggest that anyone who values their life try it. But I still think he technically overdosed. Drugs effect everyone different, and noobies to a particular substance shouldn't take a dose that a more experience user would take.

[heatherd1201]

So was it respiratory arrest? They should have looked for tracks, smelled for alcohol on his breath,....something! Interigated you more!

The pump was not nessessary, and may have killed him.

 

All emotion aside, heroin is not a kind drug, I don't suggest that anyone who values their life try it. But I still think he technically overdosed. Drugs effect everyone different, and noobies to a particular substance shouldn't take a dose that a more experience user would take.

 

Im not really sure as I was 15, and an emotional wreck at the time. I do remember that they DID pump his stomach though because they took this tube out that was filled with all this nasty black stuff. i asked them what it was and they said it was charcoal. It was to soak up anything that might have been in there.. thats all i remember about that. He was actually in a coma for about 4 days before we decided to "pull the plug" because there was no brain activity. He went too long without oxygen.

 

Because of this traumatic event I have a hard time thinking that ALL drugs should be legalized. You know?

[shadowofman]

All drugs should be decriminalized. It a bit different.

Things like opium, heroin, and maybe even cocaine, should be regulated and prescribed by doctors. It won't prevent abuse, but we will know who is abusing and try to help them. It's a billion times better than throwing them in a prison.

"Oh, you want to ruin your life with drugs? Well, how about we ruin your life for you?"

[heatherd1201]

All drugs should be decriminalized. It a bit different.

Things like opium, heroin, and maybe even cocaine, should be regulated and prescribed by doctors. It won't prevent abuse, but we will know who is abusing and try to help them. It's a billion times better than throwing them in a prison.

"Oh, you want to ruin your life with drugs? Well, how about we ruin your life for you?"

 

I can agree with that.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I think if people are afraid of the legal penalties that go along with illegal substances; want get rid of the violent and petty crimes associated with drug additions; empty out the prisons and put the dealers out of business ... there’s a much simpler solution to all of this that won’t cost the government, healthcare system or taxpayer a single dime or a minute of their time.

 

Quit using.

[shadowofman]

Oh abstinence, that works so well. Tell everyone to stop smoking and drinking and see how many don't laugh in your face.

The fact is that this War on Drugs has been going on for 35 years, and the percentage of drug users has not changed at all. Compassion dictates that we help these people instead of imprisoning them.

[littlekitty]

It was 8 years ago. It still haunts me sometimes. Watching my brother die right in front of me was hard. But i worked for a long time with a foundation for drug education for "children". And it prevented me from having ANY kind of a desire to do drugs like that. Yes, I do smoke but to me, its not the same.

Darkstar told me that smoking weed makes me a criminal. You can call me a criminal all you want. Yes it is illegal and yes, i do it. I believe that there are a lot worse things i could do. Smoking is a very big stress reliever for me. It does not interfere with any other aspect of my life.

Have you never done anyting illegal? Did you drink before you were 21?

 

It never effected any other part of my life either. I progressed my career, bought a house, did everything I would have done anyway. Weed didn't stop me achieving anything I wanted to.

[aeren944]

Oh abstinence, that works so well. Tell everyone to stop smoking and drinking and see how many don't laugh in your face.

The fact is that this War on Drugs has been going on for 35 years, and the percentage of drug users has not changed at all. Compassion dictates that we help these people instead of imprisoning them.

 

So, are you proposing changing the punishments of drug users? Or are you in favor of decriminalizing it altogether? It's very easy to say "we need to help these people, instead of ruining their lives", but it's a much different thing to actually do it. Don't get me wrong, I know the flaws of the War on Drugs all too well, but realistically, you need to consider the options. Would you force all drug users to go to rehab? Would you wait until one of them abuses his/her kids? Would you wait for them to get help on their own, after decriminalizing it and watching them waste away?

 

It's a touchy subject, I know. But, I get sick of people pointing out the problem with the War on Drugs and not coming up with a solution. Like I said, I hate the War on Drugs, and it almost completely ruined my life... but I don't see an alternative that could have a different effect and I refuse to allow people I love to waste away just because it's legal.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I think if someone feels passionately enough about an issue, a good first step would be to take some personal responsibility to become part of the solution rather than remain part of the problem. I’m a nicotine addict ... but I’m not blaming the tobacco industry or shaking my fist at the government for raising the taxes on cigarettes. Nor will you see me picketing or boycotting the restaurant owner who will not allow me and my dirty little habit to bother his customers. Far easier for me to quit something that I could live longer and healthier without than to expect the rest of the world to accommodate and cater to my addiction at their own right to breath clean air absent my second-hand smoke.

 

Similarly, if I’m bothered enough by the all the crack babies being born, and innocent children getting killed in the crossfire of drug related gang violence, I’m certainly not going to help finance that endeavor by becoming one of their regular paying customers. Then kick back to enjoy my buzz while declaring how responsible I am compared to government who has been unsuccessful so far at managing the/my problem. And what’s worse, when the government attempts to regulate and pass laws to “parent” those irresponsible individuals, than everyone complains about how their freedoms and civil rights are being violated.

 

Jeesh.

 

As far as rehabilitation ... it’s there for anyone who sincerely wants help. Even for those who are incarcerated. Problem is, you’re dealing with “addict think” and most people either don’t want the help or believe they don’t need it. A good majority of people attend rehab and counseling because they are eventually forced to, and out of those only 10% will be successful at abstaining long term. I think it’s also important to remember that people aren’t arrested simply because they are addicts and use. They’re locked up because they committed a “crime.” If that were the case, every person who entered a rehab looking for help would be cuffed and forced to detox behind bars. That’s just not the case.

[shadowofman]

But possession and use shouldn't be a crime. And that is what most of the people in our prison system is in there for. We have more people in jail than any other western country.

And I do propose that we rehab everyone that has a problem. We won't be paying for their incarceration anymore. Lets give them some medical help. Leave it to the doctors to prescribe the harder drugs, that way we will know who has a problem.

[aeren944]

But possession and use shouldn't be a crime. And that is what most of the people in our prison system is in there for. We have more people in jail than any other western country.

And I do propose that we rehab everyone that has a problem. We won't be paying for their incarceration anymore. Lets give them some medical help. Leave it to the doctors to prescribe the harder drugs, that way we will know who has a problem.

Ok, so you're saying we should make people go to rehab if they have a problem? What constitutes a problem? How would you propose making them go? If I think my friend has a problem, am I allowed to just call someone and they come take him to rehab?

 

Also, you do realize that paying doctors all over the country for rehab work isn't really cheaper than prison, right? It's just putting the money somewhere else. Rehab would basically become prison (which it can be already), with people bouncing in and out every month or so. What if rehab didn't work for some people? Are we to just let those people die? Waste away while we stand and watch?

[EnigmaXOXO]

But possession and use shouldn't be a crime.

 

Alcohol is one of those legalized substances. But it’s a crime if you get caught selling it without a license or giving it to a minor. And then there’s illegal public “possession” ... as in the Open Container Law.

 

A state must provide for primary enforcement of its open container law. Under a primary enforcement law, officers have the authority to enforce the law without the need to show that they had probable cause to believe that another violation had been committed.

 

Of course, legalizing and attempting to regulate alcohol consumption certainly hasn’t gone very far in making people more responsible users, hasn’t decreased the number of alcoholics nor reduced the number of fatalities at the hands of drunk drivers. It’s only made it more accessible. And you can’t “force” an alcoholic or addict into attend rehab unless they’ve first been charged with some sort of crime. Then the state may actually flip the bill for it. And sometimes getting into trouble or being arrested is the only thing that begrudgingly motivates some folks into finally getting some help.

 

We have more people in jail than any other western country.

 

That tells ya something, doesn’t it! I’d be curious to know if there are any countries that have legalized the sale and consumption of heroine and cocaine with any success. And if so, what it’s like to live there?

 

I do propose that we rehab everyone that has a problem. We won't be paying for their incarceration anymore. Lets give them some medical help.

 

How does Big Brother go about forcing it’s citizens into submitting regular drug tests so that we know which ones need help before they rob someone by gunpoint, embezzle money from their employer, or sell heroine to one of our kids? And if a roundup of this major proportion were even possible, where would we put them all, how do we keep them there, and who would flip that gargantuan bill?

 

Unfortunately, we also don’t have free public health care like a lot of other great countries like France and Canada. Insurance is a big money making business in this country, and hell will freeze over before the US adopts the idea of “socialized” medicine and health care ... because that’s just too reminiscent of Communism, and our government is still scared to death of those “evil doers” too, ya know!

 

Leave it to the doctors to prescribe the harder drugs, that way we will know who has a problem.

 

Hardly. There are a lot of folks addicted to “prescription” drugs who never had to walk into a doctor’s office or pharmacy. They’re bought and sold illegally, too. Just take a look at your spam mail before you delete it (you know ... those pill pushing promotions in between all the “click here for a bigger penis” ads)

 

I guess I liken the idea to what we already see happening with the Methadone program. The legal FDA approved substitute for heroine. No one wants one of these clinics setting up shop in their neighborhood because of the “element” it attracts. So my daughter must travel an hour out of state every morning before work to pick up her “prescribed” daily dosage at the nearest facility. At a cost of $700.00 a week, which insurance does not cover. The dispensing of this drug is (as you proposed) “regulated” ... to insure that the patient doesn’t overdose and to prevent the illegal sale of this drug on the streets. My daughter said that the only difference between picking up her methadone and picking up her heroine, is that at least she doesn’t have to worry about wondering into a bad neighborhood and getting shot at. But if traffic holds her up and she’s late, she doesn’t get her medication. They’re THAT strict about it, and for GOOD reason.

 

But here’s the clincher: As difficult as it is for someone to cold-turkey heroine, government approved Methadone is even worse. Your body becomes so physically acclimated to the drug that if you can no longer afford to pay for it, and decide you want to just quit, you can’t. Cold-turkeying this stuff will KILL you, as your organs will begin to shut down. You have to be weaned off of this stuff gradually under supervision. The one time my daughter insisted that they start lowering her dosage, against her doctor’s better judgement ... it landed her in the hospital. She was in tears because she wants so badly to just be DONE with screwing her body up with chemicals. She can’t afford the $700.00 a week, and without the families help, she might likely have to steal from someone (commit a crime) just to keep herself alive. She said to me, “I was able to cold-turkey heroine three times and survive it ... but now I feel like I’m just stuck.” Enter government approved “Methadonia”... the final stop for a lot relapsing heroine addicts. And if you don’t know what “Methadonia” means, it might make for an interesting read if you ever want to look it up.

 

Oh ... and Shadow, I’m not intentionally trying to pick apart your posts. I just think it makes for a VERY interesting subject. One that’s very close to my heart (as you can tell). I also wish there was some way to rectify the situation, or at very least get it under control. But short of waving a magic wand (fantasy and wishful thinking) ... I just don’t know if we will ever come up with a solution to a problem that has grown far bigger than all of us put together. I just worry that lifting the legal flood gates on some of these harder drugs will benefit no one accept those who want to continue using without the worry of being hassled or inconvenienced. Most of the proponents for this could really care less about the other guy going to jail or getting help with his addiction ... it’s mostly a smoke screen for: “so long as it isn’t me!”

[Sw3etdev1L]

As long as smoking doesn't interfere with school/relationships or anything else, then i don't see the problem in doing it. I do it every week or so and i still get A's/B's in all my classes. As long as it is not becoming an addiction, then there are really no health problems that you should worry about. (Also don't listen to anyone who says its mentally bad for you, all that $hit is made up by the government during the "Refer Madness" era in the 40's)

 

I'm sorry but, I am studying medicine...It does cause a lot of health problems, people who have drug abusse being young could suffer from psychological problems in the future, sexual problems in libido, besides smoking marijuana is the first step to other drugs...one teacher of mine who is a psychiatrist told me, lots of people who go as patients to him are people who have been doing light drugs or harsh drugs. It is harder for them to get over a depression or over maniac syndromes, and bipolar disorders and stuff...My suggestion is for you to stay away..Right now, it might not cause you problems...but lets look at you from now until you are 30 years old and you don't think the same, you start speaking slowly, your sexual libido decreases, and becoming dependent to a substance is the obvious. this quote you said about madness...you will be insane if you try drugs, and maybe literally even more if there is medical records in your genetics from which you don't even know but might even have schizophrenia..guess you don't want that right??.