Wife says we have no hope...

[mako]

Hi, first post, looking for any advice or comments.

 

My wife and I are in our late 20's; we've been married 4 years, together nearly 6, no kids. Everything was great, but at some point we lost the connection. I was working full time and going to grad school at night, while she was also working full time. We seemed to prioritize other things besides our relationship. We've always gotten along perfectly well, but just lost something. I was never particularly affectionate, and communication wasn't that great on either side; we were so focussed elsewhere I guess, taking each other for granted. I love her greatly, and she is the best part of my life (and I know that she felt the same at one point), but I foolishly didn't treat her that way.

 

She told me a few months ago that she was having major problems with the relationship, and that she had been having these problems for a few years. My lack of affection toward her (I've never been a terribly affectionate person) and our lack of communication gave her serious doubts about the relationship. We were kind of on cruise control for so long, and I think she just held it in for too long, and I just never recognized it or was too busy to see it, and she never brought it up for whatever reason. This killed me inside, but I told her I would attempt to do better, and made efforts to improve in these areas. But after trying a couple months, she seemed to just shut me out. Communication broke down, and it just felt cold between us. Either my efforts were not enough, or she had already made up her mind.

 

The past few weeks she has been overseas visiting her grandparents (this trip has been long planned, prior to her revealing the problems). We both said that maybe the time apart would be good for us to figure things out. She has not been reachable by phone, but we have e-mailed. I brought up our problems, and she responded this week that she now felt dead inside and would have to leave me. She later apologized for telling me in an e-mail, but said it all just came bursting out and she had to tell me right away. She will come home on Monday.

 

At first I was devastated. I pleaded and promised to do better. Not just for her, I know it might be futile if I change only because she wants me to, but I want to change for me as well; I want to have better communication and show her how much she means to me. The years of cruise control were so much more blah than the years prior when we were great together. So I did the pleading and suggested couples counseling with the hope that it might help us resolve things. Yeah, we probably should have been in counseling long ago...

 

She said no way to therapy; she said she had already made up her mind and it wouldn't help, she didn't want to go through the motions. So, I finally stopped the pleading and promising to change (a bad idea to begin with, probably), and I conceded that yes, it was probably over, but insisted that therapy would be good for our personal growth, to see what went wrong and to learn to not make the same mistakes in the future. Even if we do end up splitting up, at least we can take something positive, grow as people and learn something from it.

 

After that, she has agreed to go to counseling, as long as I respect her decision that she will leave me. She said that she still has no hope for our future, but agreed it could be good to learn and grow (though she still questions it a bit since we have "no hope"). So I'm now in the process of finding a therapist and we'll start that ASAP.

 

This has all been a great kick in the pants, and I have finally understood what she needs and was missing. Maybe I was in denial or too optimistic or just afraid of reaching this point, but the realization that I am losing her has made me see what I had not been giving and the things that I should have done. I know she is the #1 thing in my life, but that I haven't always shown her that and took her for granted; and I know that telling her these things means nothing if I don't show it. I believe that with a fresh start I would give her exactly what she needs, yet I suspect and fear it is too late. Maybe she really is dead inside; but I also think she fears that I would change for a while, then we'd just go back to how things were and she would be miserable again, as she's indicated this.

 

She keeps saying how this is terrible for her, she is unable to eat and sleep because of it, and that she still cares for me, but she just has to leave. I believe her when she tells me she still cares, so I feel there might still be something there inside her, but she has just felt too alone from me for too long and she thinks it can't be revived.

 

I think it is a positive step she will come to counseling, but I still don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. As I said, she is coming back Monday, and there will definitely be a ton of talking when she does, a ton of talking that should have been going on for years but unfortunately did not. But I fear it is just too late, that she is just too far gone.

 

And finally, the fact that she seemed to be already prepared to leave has it in my mind that maybe there is someone else. I would never have imagined it; just from knowing her, I know she is morally against that type of thing and would never even consider it, but there is doubt...I haven't seen any signs, and my gut says no...but the doubt is there, as I know the "checked out" phase is often due to this. This is another thing we will have to talk about.

 

Thoughts?

[whichwayisup]

Hate to say this, but is there someone else in picture? Most women don't just leave their husbands....Unless she decided a long time ago that it is over and it was just a matter of time before she had the strength to leave.

 

I say both of you owe it to yourselves to make one last go of it and then if that doesn't work (you gotta give it about a year with marriage counselling) then throw in the towel.

 

Sorry that you're going through this!

[mako]

Thanks whichwayisup.

 

As I said, I don't know if someone else is in the picture. I haven't seen anything obviously suspicious, and she would normally be dead set against this type of thing (though she is admittedly not feeling "normal" these days). But yeah, it's a doubt that is there, since she is just adamant about leaving. I don't know why she'd be so decisive otherwise, unless she is just too emotionally drained and tired of it.

 

But yeah, I still have the glimmer of hope that she will respond to counseling. I would like to try and make it work, and even after all this I just want her to try also with an open mind. Things used to be so great, if there is no one else I would hope she'd just want to know if we could get it back, give it one last try, then if not we could move on without regrets.

[jmargel]

You seem like an educated man, one that has a good head on his shoulders. Most women don't end a relationship 'out of the blue' Usually they are done with it emotionally way before ending it physically (telling you it's over). Often communication issues are the first in a chain reaction that inevidetly lead upto this unless it's dealt with early on.

 

What she is telling you is what you need to start accepting. Don't use this counseling together as a means to possibly get back together. She is telling you straight out and if she has not played games with you before then good chance she is only telling you this because this is how she truly feels.

 

That being said I believe what she wants out of all of this is to feel understood. She doesn't want your begging or explations on why or promises that you will change. When she comes back Monday you need to learn how to LISTEN. By this, when she talks let her finish her sentences before you start talking. Look at her in the eyes when she talks. When she says something the BEST thing you can do is say 'I understand'. Those two words are more powerful then you might think. When you say this (without then trying to prove why she shouldn't feel this way) it knocks down her defenses. If she feels like she's not being understood then NOTHING you say will have an impact. Let her feel important by doing this. Remember this is about her, not you right now.

 

Don't ask her if another man is in the picture, that will just make her feel like she is cheap and a tramp. When she comes back, let her start the conversation. The only thing you should say to her before she starts talking is 'When you are ready, I will listen'.

 

Trust me, it does work wonders. You will have to swallow your pride for now and catch yourself if you are going to try to argue with her on why she shouldn't feel this way. To us men, disappointment is one of the worst things to feel and when our SO wants to leave we felt that we left them down. Often we will try to convince them on why they shouldn't feel this way or get defensive.

 

If things do get out of control and you feel a heated exchange coming on, just tell her 'I do not want to talk about this now, however I will talk to you about it later'. It lets her know where you stand. Try not to talk out of pure emotions either, that often will lead you into saying things that you will later regret.

 

Just remember these words: 'I understand'.

[lost4ever]

What she is telling you is what you need to start accepting. Don't use this counseling together as a means to possibly get back together. She is telling you straight out and if she has not played games with you before then good chance she is only telling you this because this is how she truly feels.

 

That being said I believe what she wants out of all of this is to feel understood. She doesn't want your begging or explations on why or promises that you will change. When she comes back Monday you need to learn how to LISTEN. By this, when she talks let her finish her sentences before you start talking. Look at her in the eyes when she talks. When she says something the BEST thing you can do is say 'I understand'. Those two words are more powerful then you might think. When you say this (without then trying to prove why she shouldn't feel this way) it knocks down her defenses. If she feels like she's not being understood then NOTHING you say will have an impact. Let her feel important by doing this. Remember this is about her, not you right now.

 

 

If things do get out of control and you feel a heated exchange coming on, just tell her 'I do not want to talk about this now, however I will talk to you about it later'. It lets her know where you stand. Try not to talk out of pure emotions either, that often will lead you into saying things that you will later regret.

 

Just remember these words: 'I understand'.

 

This is really good advice, some women do "just leave" (without another man) I told my husband a few times in the past that I didn't want to be in this Marriage anymore, he would beg and cry and promise to change, and like you he wasn't a bad guy, I just didn't feel it (our M had a lot in common with yours, the crusie control / busy thing)--- anyways I didn't leave even though I wanted to and it didn't get better with MC (It just got worse)(and then the other man did come into the picture) my stbx and I talk now, and we both agree that neither of us would have had to go through all this hurt the last 2 years if we would have been strong enough then to say, ït's over and went on with our lives.

[mako]

I think you are spot on jmargel, thanks for the advice.

 

All the pleading stuff, the promises to change, only really made her upset. What I was telling her was "I don't hear what you are saying and how serious your feelings/problems are, I don't think you really mean it since I think I can just fix it with the wave of a hand." Then by telling her "I accept you will have to go, but counseling can help us regardless," I think that told her I was finally listening, that I understand as you say. She was really responsive to that. The best thing for me to do now is listen, really listen. And understand. I probably haven't understood for a long time, she needs that.

 

Counseling, I don't think of it as a means to get her back. I think of it as a means to find out exactly what happened here, why something good went so wrong, and how to stop it from ever happening again, with her (unlikely) or with someone else. I know it's really unlikely that she'll stick around. But it's also a heckuva lot more likely if we do counseling then if she just goes and doesn't look back. At some point I'll be able to move on, but I'm not there yet, so that small chance helps out at this point. Plus, if it comes to a divorce, at least this might be something we can build on, to end our marriage on a relatively positive note. If she just left without any form of counseling, I know I'd feel a ton of resentment. She probably would resent me too.

 

And yeah, I will not bring up anything about cheating. If this is what happened, she will tell me with time. If not, any accusation would only alienate her more. The same with being too emotional; it will surely be emotional, but if we're fired up we'd probably both say things that would just be hurtful and it wouldn't get us anywhere. If I can listen and be sure she knows I understand, at least we can get somewhere and possibly avoid too much resentment.

 

 

And lost4ever: if I had zero hope for anything, at least for learning something about myself, and the same for her, then maybe I would just let her go now. I know we're probably going to go through a world of hurt; only question is if it would hurt more this way or that way. I don't know the answer for sure, and because of that I'm not strong enough right now to move on...thanks for sharing though, it's good to hear from others who went through the same thing, even if I don't enjoy hearing the result...