'Friends' with MM, but for how long?

[whichway]

Hello all, this is my very first post here so I hope I do this right! I stumbled onto LS and have been reading through the threads and found the comments and posts very interesting. I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me with my current situation.

Nearly two years ago, I met MM for the first time, when we worked together. He had been away from our company for three months, during which time I joined, and I had heard that he had gone abroad with his girlfriend and they had got married. When he came back, we became good friends. I was with someone at the time but it was a difficult long-distance relationship; MM never spoke of his wife at all though he was very open about all other parts of his life. We got on very well, had very interesting discussions. I found MM easy to chat to but I noticed that he seemed to 'depend' on our discussions and emails far more than I did...until I began to get used to them too - so much so, that we would email all day at work. Obviously, we both noticed this change though we never said anything directly. I began to find the situation harder and harder.

Finally, we talked openly about our feelings. He told me that he loved me and that he had never felt this way before; he talked about his sadness at finding 'the right one' at the 'wrong time'. He was reluctant to talk too intimately about the situation with his wife, i think he saw it as a betrayal of her - but he did explain a few basics: they had been together for a few months but her visa to stay in this country ran out. they went back to her country and decided that the easiest way was to get married in order to stay together. he said that, on returning here, it soon became clear that their decision to get married was a mistake (though I sense this is more his take on things rather than their mutual opinion) but he had made his bed and now had responsibilities to her - as well as quite large debts.

He was adamant, from the very beginning, that I understood that this was all going to take time to work out and he could offer me nothing now. He said he couldn't, and wouldn't, promise me any kind of a timescale as he needed to work things out for himself, not because of his feelings for me. I thought this was fair.

He moved companies but we would meet for a half-hour lunch break every day. His work began to suffer. Things came to a head about 5 months ago when he was put on probation at work for (basically) spending all his working hours messaging me. We both decided this had become too unhealthy and it was (looking back) a welcome relief to us both to create a little distance.

We decided to remain friends, to remain in contact, but to stop any physical intimacy (the only thing before had been kissing and holding hands when we met at lunch but that now stopped). It made me feel happier as I felt less resentful toward him and he said he felt better as he felt less guilty toward me, and less pressured. He told me that my life was my own and I shouldn't wait for him. Easier said than done. On the flip side, however, he is extremely jealous and likes to know where I am, who I am seeing, what I am doing. He asks to know these things but also admits that he has no right, considering the situation.

Over the last 6 months, we have stayed in contact. This is usually in the form of emails or MSN conversations and we meet maybe once ever two weeks for a half-hour lunch. He constantly talks about the future, where we will live, what we will do. He and I being together, one day, is - according to him - a given. The issue is 'when'.

 

However, this is where the difficulties lie. For both of us, there are extreme insecurity/jealous issues. He is extremely jealous of who I am with/who I might be seeing. I often get the distinct feeling that he resents me for being 'free' when he wishes that I wasn't (as in, he wishes he could tell me not to be) and he often tries to make me 'jealous' by telling me about girls he thinks are cute etc, in order to see my reaction and get continual confirmation that I still love him - which I find irritating and childish. But I am very insecure of his situation also. He doesn't talk about his wife and, for the most part, that suits me well as I would prefer not to get any more involved in his situation than I sadly already am.

Recently, I have found it harder and harder to not think about them together. They still live together. He doesn't talk about her to me (and I don't ask). Part of me respects the fact that he doesn't want to disrespect her by discussing her with me - but another part of me worries that he is lying about everything. I cannot really see what he would be gaining from lying - emails and MSN can hardly be fulfilling though to make his jealousy and resentment worth it. When we talk, he seems so completely emotionally disconnected from his wife and so content to think of us and our 'future' but I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors and I am fully aware that I have absolutely no right to know - which makes it all the worse!

Sometimes I think about going NC - not because I in any way want to force a decision from him...not at all. But I feel it might be best for me, especially as I then wouldn't have to deal with his jealousy issues. But at the same time, I would miss him terribly and I believe he would miss me - at the moment, neither of us is very good at spending more than a day without contacting each other by email or sending a quick text to say hello.

Has anyone been in a situation similar to this, or does anyone have any advice or thoughts? I have never been in any kind of situation like this before and I hope that I never find myself in one again! If you feel I am missing something or reading the situation badly, feel free to let me know

Thanks for reading.

[KATANYA]

Welcome to LS and, if you dont mind, could I ask how old you two are. There are some MAJOR issues here that I'd like to point out to you, from my perception of what is written anyway!

 

I found MM easy to chat to but I noticed that he seemed to 'depend' on our discussions and emails far more than I did..

 

What do you mean 'depend'.....do you mean like he seemed to need them in order to get through the day or do you mean he relied on you sending him one and was disappointed/angry when you didn't?

 

He told me that he loved me and that he had never felt this way before;they had been together for a few months but her visa to stay in this country ran out. they went back to her country and decided that the easiest way was to get married in order to stay together.

 

 

They had only been together a few months yet he 'loved' her enough to go back to her country and marry her in order for the two of them to 'stay' together......I'm thinking he probably "thought" he loved her and no doubt told her 'he had never felt that way' about anyone. You have to admit, it is a bit more than like when you go to another country to be with the one you love and marry them in order to be together (unless this was all show for a visa....and I don't want to even go there!)

 

now had responsibilities to her - as well as quite large debts.

 

They were only together a few months then got married....where did the debts come from???Are they his or theirs or hers? Regardless of whether they stay together or divorce, the debts will have to be paid so that should not be a real show stopper if he wants to leave her. If he leaves her does she lose her visa and, more importantly, does she have money or come from money?

 

He was adamant, from the very beginning, that I understood that this was all going to take time to work out and he could offer me nothing now.

 

ok...so he has told you straight out that he cannot be there for you and has nothing to offer you.....he is able to give you NOTHING...keep reminding yourself of that- you can't say he didn't warn you!!

 

he was put on probation at work for (basically) spending all his working hours messaging me.

 

ok....red flags here!!!! When ANYONE and I mean ANYONE cannot concentrate on doing their job because they must be spending their work hours messaging someone they are attracted to that is NOT LOVE that is OBSESSION and I would be very creeped out at that! More importantly, do not be flattered by it...be afraid by it because this is how he is acting BEFORE you are in a relationship with him....what can you expect later?

 

We decided to remain friends, to remain in contact, but to stop any physical intimacy (the only thing before had been kissing and holding hands when we met at lunch but that now stopped). It made me feel happier as I felt less resentful toward him and he said he felt better as he felt less guilty toward me, and less pressured.

 

You had 1/2 hr for lunch......how much intimacy did you get when you are in a diner with food to gulp down before heading back to text message each other from work???? I can't imagine what kind of pressure he felt he was under with you If he felt any pressures or guilt he would not have gone to lunch to begin with.

 

Over the last 6 months, we have stayed in contact. This is usually in the form of emails or MSN conversations and we meet maybe once ever two weeks for a half-hour lunch. He constantly talks about the future, where we will live, what we will do. He and I being together, one day, is - according to him - a given. The issue is 'when'.

 

He is living in a dream world and I hope you are not on vacation with him there! The future is easy to talk about because it is not here, it is not real and no one has to deal with it!!!! As far as 'when', your responses to him should be screaming 'NEVER'

 

However, this is where the difficulties lie. For both of us, there are extreme insecurity/jealous issues.he often tries to make me 'jealous' by telling me about girls he thinks are cute etc,

 

Not only is this immature and childish but it is really scary that there are these many insecurity/jealousy issues between two people who 1) are carrying on what they consider to be an innappropriate relationship behind his W's back and 2) between two people whose relationship is almost wholly one conducted over a computer. His attempts to make you 'jealous' by talking about 'cute' girls is almost funny given that he could talk about his wife and drive you over the edge!!!! If the two of you are this jealous and insecure now RUN AWAY from each other. Nothing good can come of this type of relationship...you already will have 'trust' issues given the fact that you know he is capable of cheating because he is doing it with you. You will never trust this man and, from the sounds of things, he will NEVER trust you unless the two of you are bound together and kept in the same room on a constant basis!!! As soon as you are out of each others sights the insecurity and jealousy will start eating at you.

 

cannot really see what he would be gaining from lying - emails and MSN can hardly be fulfilling though to make his jealousy and resentment worth it.

 

EXACTLY!!!!!!! Maybe he just has MUCH BIGGER issues that you really don't want a part of!

 

Sometimes I think about going NC - not because I in any way want to force a decision from him...not at all. But I feel it might be best for me, especially as I then wouldn't have to deal with his jealousy issues.

 

PLEASE TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE! You don't have to deal with his jealousy issues because you are not his wife!!!!! And if I were you, I don't think I would be his friend either. You don't sound like his friend to me, you sound like his possession and I am not trying to be mean or sarcastic when I say I would be scared at his responses and actions toward you......this is sooooooo not healthy!!!!

 

You can take my advice of not but I do know what I'm talking about here and I cannot tell you enough that jealousy and insecurity don't belong in any relationship.....let alone to this degree..,.and certainly not in a relationship between a MM who is cheating on his wife and an OW. WTF---he's jealous of you and he has a wife!!! You need to really get over that "I would miss him" thinking and ask yourself WHY??? If you don't like how he's acting now when you are not a couple, just wait til you are. I guarantee you that you will be the one rushing to another country...not to marry him but to try to get rid of him!

 

JMO my friend. Take care and be careful. This really could be more dangerous than you realize.

[whichway]

Hi Katanya, thanks very much for your reply. You've given me some serious food for thought. I'm going to answer your points here. Firstly, I'm 25. MM is 29.

 

What do you mean 'depend'.....do you mean like he seemed to need them in order to get through the day or do you mean he relied on you sending him one and was disappointed/angry when you didn't?

 

Let me clarify this: I felt that he didn't really have anyone else to talk to. He confided in me about a lot of things and I got the feeling that he had no one else to confide in, whereas I had others and so didn't feel the same 'need'.

 

They had only been together a few months yet he 'loved' her enough to go back to her country and marry her in order for the two of them to 'stay' together......I'm thinking he probably "thought" he loved her and no doubt told her 'he had never felt that way' about anyone.

I hear you on this one. It was my exact reaction to what he said. How can you marry someone so easily if you are not thinking that it's forever? However, on the flipside, I've spoken a lot of people on this subject and especially to one of my very good (and very sensible) friends who found herself in a similar situation. She moved to another country (incidentally the same country as MM's W), spent a year living with her then-SO but when her visa was up, it was make or break time. He wanted to get married to continue their relationship; culturally and personally he could not understand why she hesitated. She told me that there was a masisive temptation to do so and that many of the couples she had met out there in similar situations HAD got married for these reason - many had worked out, many had not. She told me that one of the main reasons why she was tempted was that she was so scared of walking away from her SO knowing that she was doing so because of logistical problems rather than because things couldn't work out between them. This was exactly what MM told me - he said he was too scared that, if he didn't do this, then one day he would wake up and wonder 'what if'. My friend moved back here and a few months later, met the man she is currently with - she says that she now knows that she made the right decision not to go through with a convenient marriage...but she said, at the time, it was a hugely difficult decision to make.

 

They were only together a few months then got married....where did the debts come from???Are they his or theirs or hers? Regardless of whether they stay together or divorce, the debts will have to be paid so that should not be a real show stopper if he wants to leave her.

He took three months unpaid leave and then, when they returned, the only thing he has ever really said was that there were issues because she didn't want to work (and there was no way two people could have lived on the salary he was on at the time!) so I think the debts stem from there. The issue now is that, if this ends, she will go back to her country pretty much straight away and the debts will be his responsibility. I know this concerns him anyway as the debts are all in his name.

 

ok...so he has told you straight out that he cannot be there for you and has nothing to offer you.....he is able to give you NOTHING...keep reminding yourself of that- you can't say he didn't warn you!!

Yes, this is very true - the writing was on the wall from the start.

 

ok....red flags here!!!! When ANYONE and I mean ANYONE cannot concentrate on doing their job because they must be spending their work hours messaging someone they are attracted to that is NOT LOVE that is OBSESSION and I would be very creeped out at that!

 

Hmm, I'm sorry - I think I may have phrased this a little unfairly! MM moved jobs, didn't like his new company and was unhappy in the new role. In consequence, he ended up not really doing all that much work and I was an obvious distraction. I'm sorry if I made it sound as though I was the cause, I can see how it sounded like that but that's not true. The probation scared him enough into realising that, whether he isn't happy in the job or not, he cannot afford to lose it and so has knuckled down!

 

If the two of you are this jealous and insecure now RUN AWAY from each other. As soon as you are out of each others sights the insecurity and jealousy will start eating at you.

This is something that does concern me - because his jealousy has got worse. However, when we were more 'together' and there was less insecurity, then he really wasn't jealous or, if he was, it was a normal level of jealousy if it ever occured. He never distrusted me. Now it seems too much. But part of me wonders whether he just cannot deal well with the insecurity since, when he WAS more secure that I wasn't going to fall in love with someone else, then he wasn't jealous in this way.

For my part, I'm not an overly-jealous person now was I all that insecure, except for the obvious insecurities inherent in this type of relationship.

 

 

You don't sound like his friend to me, you sound like his possession and I am not trying to be mean or sarcastic when I say I would be scared at his responses and actions toward you......this is sooooooo not healthy!!!!

Thank you for saying this. I really do need to examine his behaviour toward me far more closely than I am doing at present. Thanks again for your reply.

[frannie]

I don't want to sound horribly negative, but in this case it's hard.

 

Jealousy, insecurity, debts, flakey at work, a quick marriage abroad followed by cheating, relationship conducted over the internet... none of it sounds very good at all, and some of what you've written is very Red Flaggy.

 

I would urge you to distance yourself from him because you're already unhappy with him as a person... not just the situation. And your gut is telling you he's not a man to be trusted.