MM Promises

[NoIDidn't]

I have read frequently that MM promised this, and promised that....And a lot of responses from those of us not in affairs saying that they are liars, they will say anything to string you along, get in your pants, whatever.

 

But I really think that the MM mean it at the time. That they actually believe what they are saying at the moment that they are saying it. I don't find it so unbelievable that some even feel a little bound by those promises - but often know that they can't and probably shouldn't have said those things.

 

Am I alone in this view?

[Lyssa]

I have read some threads/posts that some OW's MM promised them this and that but mine didn't make any promises so I am not bound on anything. We promised each other not to make any promises on anything about our relationship and that really helped because now we're heading towards what we have wanted all this while. I have been with single guys who made more promises than MM and didn't even follow through!

 

I also know a few of my married guy friends promised their OW this and that. That I do not agree with because not only are they giving OW hope but they are also lying to themselves. I read on another thread that OW are always clinging to every word their MM say etc - I don't agree with that because I know a few who do not and are happy with some of the arrangements.

[White Flower]

I have read frequently that MM promised this, and promised that....And a lot of responses from those of us not in affairs saying that they are liars, they will say anything to string you along, get in your pants, whatever.

 

But I really think that the MM mean it at the time. That they actually believe what they are saying at the moment that they are saying it. I don't find it so unbelievable that some even feel a little bound by those promises - but often know that they can't and probably shouldn't have said those things.

 

Am I alone in this view?

 

I don't think you're alone when you say they believe they mean it during the moment that they say it ,the promise, or some other wish. I may not be the right one to answer, because my MM has not promised me anything. I know some of you have heard promises that they'll leave the W for the OW, etc, etc. Mine often expresses a desire to be with me always, yet knows he cannot.

 

But, I have seen him cry when he tells me he wishes he could be with me on a committed basis and I know he was sincere when he said it. I don't feel he is only feeling guilty for "using me" as some would say here; I feel he is suffering for himself at these moments too. This A is equally emotional as it is physical.

 

On a side note, I saw more compassion and love in those eyes in ten minutes than I saw in my H's eyes in 25 years.

 

But should we ponder on whether they mean it when they said it? For some of you, you are counting on them to carry out a promise of a life together, a home, a family, etc. What matters here is that they actually show they mean it by carrying it through and being true to their word.

[Meaplus3]

I have read frequently that MM promised this, and promised that....And a lot of responses from those of us not in affairs saying that they are liars, they will say anything to string you along, get in your pants, whatever.

 

But I really think that the MM mean it at the time. That they actually believe what they are saying at the moment that they are saying it. I don't find it so unbelievable that some even feel a little bound by those promises - but often know that they can't and probably shouldn't have said those things.

 

Am I alone in this view?

 

NO! You are not alone!!! My mm told me just last week that he should have said NO, when I told him of my attraction. Instead he enertained the thought's of us. That lead me to go after him even more. It was back and forth, emotion's upset and where did it get me? NO where. Forget it. move on. NO it's not easy, read here, post get Therapy a combo of thing's can work!

 

AP:)

[nadiaj2727]

My xMM looked and sounded very sincere when he told me he wants to be with me forever. He too cried. He told me he wants to marry me and that I am his soul mate. He moved out of their house so I thought I saw some action. I believed everything he said because I was in love with him and I thought he was a good person.

 

I think he really meant what he said. He still looks me in the eye and promises me he is getting divorced with or without me. He says it is very close, and that I just don't understand how hard it is to finalize everything and go through with a divorce. It makes me feel terrible for breaking up with him if he really is trying to get out of it and I am just too impatient. But the problem is, after awhile I really didn't know if I could believe his words anymore. And I began to realize that he didn't know if he could believe them either.

 

So I totally agree that they can mean it when they say it. I've wondered how he can be so totally convinced that he loves me and wants to be with me, but not have the guts to do what it takes to follow through with what he really honestly wants. I think what happens is that they deny the reality of their situation. I think they thought it would be easy to wave a magic wand, get out of a marriage, and move on to a happy relationship with OW. In my situation, I thought that and I truly believe he thought (and to some extent still thinks that), or else I never could have done it. To me, it's like religion... blind faith in something you never see (on both his part and mine). I haven't been religious since I was 18 years old... I believe what I SEE, not what I hope could happen. So I got out. But I still believe he "meant" that he loves me, he wants to spend his life with me, he wants to get divorced and be with me. Knowing he was sincere makes it easier for me to not totally hate him. But the problem is that his "meaning" what he says only goes so far.

 

I think what they sometimes REALLY mean (sometimes without even knowing it) is "I want to spend the rest of my life with you if it really turns out that way, but in the meantime I'm still spending the rest of my life with this other woman I married, because I know she's serious about spending the rest of her life with me, and I'm not sure if you are yet." I think if I would have said, "I'm going to Vegas in a month, and I want to marry you," he would have filed for divorce and gotten it finalized in a month and been there at the alter waiting for Elvis to walk me down the aisle. Because he would have known I was a for-sure bet. But while he wasn't completely sure he had me for good, he was still hanging onto his marriage, just in case. That's not how a relationship is supposed to begin/ grow. Both people should be willing to take the risk of getting to know each other and hoping for the best but expecting that relationships don't always work out. But married men can't do that b/c they already have a for-sure thing, that in many cases they've had for so long, and they don't want to take the risk of losing it for some new, young thing who might change her mind when she decides she doesn't like the wrinkles on his face.

 

He always acted like I had to *prove* my love for him, even though *he* was the one who was married. I think I would either have had to stick around for a long long time waiting, until he realized I actually did want to be with him, or I would have had to hold his hand while he signed and filed divorce papers and then I walked him over to the church to sign our marriage license. He wasn't changing his current situation for me no matter how much he said he "loved" me, because he wasn't sure I would always love him too. Ironically I guess by leaving I showed him I wasn't worthy of his "love." It's fine that it turned out that way, because I realized I wanted someone who would *prove* they loved me no matter what, and was willing to try things whether I ended up staying or leaving eventually. That's just not what he had to offer... he wanted to trade in one wife for another. At least now I know I should stick to single guys, who show me that they MEAN that they love me and want to spend the rest of their life with me by developing a normal, give-and-take relationship, risks and all.

 

I got a little off track, sorry. But that's my two cents on how MM "mean" what they say, but only in a certain part of fantasy land, and not in reality... not when things get risky and they may end up trading in "forever" for "for the moment."

[NoIDidn't]

I got a little off track, sorry. But that's my two cents on how MM "mean" what they say, but only in a certain part of fantasy land, and not in reality... not when things get risky and they may end up trading in "forever" for "for the moment."

 

No, you didn't get off track, Nadia.

 

I agree with your view a little too. Sometimes they are 'dreaming out loud' as its been called. But at that very moment, whether they have given it alot of reality-based thought, they still mean what they are saying (to a degree).

 

And, yeah, when everything really is on the line (BW knows or a D really does loom near), often those promises become forgotten - or at least they act like they forgot them to not have to talk about them anymore.

[OWoman]

I have read frequently that MM promised this' date=' and promised that....[/quote']

 

I've never wanted, or welcomed, promises. Given the constraints and the situations, it's always seemed downright idiotic to make promises you can't deliver on, or promise things nobody really wants. The only thing I've demanded, expected, insisted on, is total honesty with me.

 

But I agree, NID, about MM believing what they say when they're saying it IN MANY INSTANCES, rather than being deliberately duplicitous and stringing the OW along. They convince themselves, as they try to convince OW, of their intentions. They underestimate the complexity, and then feel guilty, failed, unhappy when things don't go according to plan.

[justice]

My h promised his ow that he would leave me, that they would be together, and that it would never end.

In reality what she got was jailtime for stalking, fired from her job because of her obsession and the short end of the stick.

My H got his divorce and is now begging me to let him come back, it's not gonna happen, not now, not ever. Promises mean nothing unless you keep them. I think that promises of this sort are prolly meant when they are said, but in the long run, promises made in the "fog" often vanish.

[outofdarkness]

I have read frequently that MM promised this, and promised that....And a lot of responses from those of us not in affairs saying that they are liars, they will say anything to string you along, get in your pants, whatever.

 

But I really think that the MM mean it at the time. That they actually believe what they are saying at the moment that they are saying it. I don't find it so unbelievable that some even feel a little bound by those promises - but often know that they can't and probably shouldn't have said those things.

 

Am I alone in this view?

Nope, I agree..You hit the nail on the head IMHO..

[reboot]

I think you gals are taking a real narrow view of this. I'm thinking you're absolutely right about MM.... sometimes.

 

I'm sure there are married men who do believe what they say, who do mean what they say, that do intend to make good their promises (whether they ever do or not).

 

But there's also a lot of them that just say whatever it takes. And know damn well they're lying, and feel bad about it not for one second. Surely you see that?

[lost4ever]

 

But there's also a lot of them that just say whatever it takes. And know damn well they're lying, and feel bad about it not for one second. Surely you see that?

 

That would be my XMM---what a looser!

[nadiaj2727]

I'm sure there are married men who do believe what they say, who do mean what they say, that do intend to make good their promises (whether they ever do or not).

 

But there's also a lot of them that just say whatever it takes. And know damn well they're lying, and feel bad about it not for one second. Surely you see that?

 

Yes and I'm not sure which kind my xMM was... I alternate because I've FELT his feelings for me... it's like they radiate off of him, and I've heard and seen him say he loves me in more convincing way than any other man has told me that before. And yet I know he's purposefully lied to me and manipulated me before. My emotions ping-pong back and forth between hating him and feeling bad for hurting him. That's what makes it so difficult to just let it go. It's hard to let go of something I can't figure out. The best I can surmise is, he FELT so strongly that he loves me and wants to be with me forever, but he didn't ACT on what he needed to do to do that, therefore, his feelings are empty, they are not real love. I don't know what they are. I guess a self-serving love... he thinks he loves me but he really loved the way I made him feel when I was around.

[reboot]

I'm sure there are married men who do believe what they say, who do mean what they say, that do intend to make good their promises (whether they ever do or not).

 

But there's also a lot of them that just say whatever it takes. And know damn well they're lying, and feel bad about it not for one second. Surely you see that?

 

Yes and I'm not sure which kind my xMM was... I alternate because I've FELT his feelings for me... it's like they radiate off of him, and I've heard and seen him say he loves me in more convincing way than any other man has told me that before. And yet I know he's purposefully lied to me and manipulated me before. My emotions ping-pong back and forth between hating him and feeling bad for hurting him. That's what makes it so difficult to just let it go. It's hard to let go of something I can't figure out. The best I can surmise is, he FELT so strongly that he loves me and wants to be with me forever, but he didn't ACT on what he needed to do to do that, therefore, his feelings are empty, they are not real love. I don't know what they are. I guess a self-serving love... he thinks he loves me but he really loved the way I made him feel when I was around.

I'd say he falls into the first group then, but you have to add my "(whether they ever do or not)." clause to him.

 

I've read your posts. I don't think he's insincere. I think he loves you. He just loves himself a lot more. And that kind of love is tainted at best.

[lonegal]

I don't think you're alone when you say they believe they mean it during the moment that they say it ,the promise, or some other wish. I may not be the right one to answer, because my MM has not promised me anything. I know some of you have heard promises that they'll leave the W for the OW, etc, etc. Mine often expresses a desire to be with me always, yet knows he cannot.

 

But, I have seen him cry when he tells me he wishes he could be with me on a committed basis and I know he was sincere when he said it. I don't feel he is only feeling guilty for "using me" as some would say here; I feel he is suffering for himself at these moments too. This A is equally emotional as it is physical.

 

On a side note, I saw more compassion and love in those eyes in ten minutes than I saw in my H's eyes in 25 years.

 

But should we ponder on whether they mean it when they said it? For some of you, you are counting on them to carry out a promise of a life together, a home, a family, etc. What matters here is that they actually show they mean it by carrying it through and being true to their word.

 

I agree with WF. It's in the way they carry the promises towards reality that matters. May or may not be exactly the thing you expected but you know its towards that line.

 

The situation is rarely simple, so most of the time the promises however simple they may seem may be complicated for one of the party involved. Everybody has their own situation and its really not simple to just copy what worked from others and use it on your own.

 

For example, to quote WF, to have a home / life together. Some may have the luxury of buying allout a LS for themselves, others may really have to 'build them'. By building them its like having so many things to do to have that home. This is were it matters, is he carrying it? is he true to his word, do you feel it? if its partially done, can you still wait up? others instead of waiting, help in the process, they're still humans after all and not superman.

 

I really can't suggest what to do about it but in the end you'll probably know more of what promises matter to you and how you want to be part of it.

[silktricks]

I agree with Reboot, but I think there is a 3rd group.

 

There are MM who are "dreaming out loud" and really mean what they say when they are saying it. Those ones really care for the OW, at least when they are with them.

 

There are MM who will say whatever they need to say to the OW, 'cuz they wanna get laid.

 

I believe that there is a 3rd group who are doing what they are doing not out of a desire to have "fresh sex" or because they really care about the OW, but because they are angry at their wife. I think they aren't truly "dreaming out loud" because they don't really want to be with the OW. I don't think they say what they say so much because of wanting sex either. It's still all about them, and what they want, but what they want is to get back at their wife for some perceived wrong. It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior that the OW gets caught in.

[lonegal]

I'd say he falls into the first group then, but you have to add my "(whether they ever do or not)." clause to him.

 

I've read your posts. I don't think he's insincere. I think he loves you. He just loves himself a lot more. And that kind of love is tainted at best.

 

I think he meant what he said to you. And for you to feel it is really something. I was just wondering if you had the chance to tell this to him before or asked him if he loves you because you make him better when your around?

[nadiaj2727]

Silktricks-- It's still all about them, and what they want, but what they want is to get back at their wife for some perceived wrong. It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior that the OW gets caught in.

 

Yes, I see this in my xMM. He always complained about how his W was never interested in anything he wanted to do and how she treated him badly and how he was never in love with her even when he married her. I started to think, I guess I really fill some void in him that he never was able to acheive with his W. In a way it was like he wanted to replace her with me. I didn't want to be the new W, I just wanted to have a normal healthy growing relationship with him.

[nadiaj2727]

Lonegal -- I think he meant what he said to you. And for you to feel it is really something. I was just wondering if you had the chance to tell this to him before or asked him if he loves you because you make him better when your around?

 

I don't really understand your question. Did I tell have the chance to tell him I felt how he loved me? Yes. We always told each other we loved each other and that we could feel each other's love for each other. But I could also feel his insecurity, jealousy, controlling nature over me, and I don't know *what* kind of love that is. That's what I don't get.

 

I also told him it feels like he loves the way I make him feel, and that that isn't real love, just infatuation. I told him this recently, when trying to not talk to him, and trying to explain all the many things that are swarming around in my head. He denied that was true and said that when we can be really together, when he's divorced, I'll see that he treats me so great and that he loves me for who I am, not how I make him feel. But those are just empty words still... he's *not* divorced so we can't be together, and I don't understand how all of a sudden he would start treating me so great.

 

Are you trying to say that he feels that he loves me but he doesn't act on those feelings enough? I'm not quite sure what you mean but I'm interested, please explain.

[lonegal]

Lonegal -- I think he meant what he said to you. And for you to feel it is really something. I was just wondering if you had the chance to tell this to him before or asked him if he loves you because you make him better when your around?

 

I don't really understand your question. Did I tell have the chance to tell him I felt how he loved me? Yes. We always told each other we loved each other and that we could feel each other's love for each other. But I could also feel his insecurity, jealousy, controlling nature over me, and I don't know *what* kind of love that is. That's what I don't get.

 

I also told him it feels like he loves the way I make him feel, and that that isn't real love, just infatuation. I told him this recently, when trying to not talk to him, and trying to explain all the many things that are swarming around in my head. He denied that was true and said that when we can be really together, when he's divorced, I'll see that he treats me so great and that he loves me for who I am, not how I make him feel. But those are just empty words still... he's *not* divorced so we can't be together, and I don't understand how all of a sudden he would start treating me so great.

 

Are you trying to say that he feels that he loves me but he doesn't act on those feelings enough? I'm not quite sure what you mean but I'm interested, please explain.

 

Thanks for the clarification. From what you mentioned its really hard to tell on when its all going to happen. He's sincere but does'nt have a gameplan, am I correct? That maybe the reason why this love is being equated with emptiness or taintedness. Have both of you tried to talk about expectations? Something concrete on what will happen in the future?

[nadiaj2727]

lonegal --

 

When I met him I didn't know he was married. He didn't wear a ring & never talked about a W. There was a mutual attraction b/t us but nothing had happened. I found out he was married through a co-worker & I was shocked. After I found out he was married, he told me had feelings for me, that he thought I was the most incredible woman on the planet, and that he wanted to be with me. I said, all of this is impossible b/c you're married. He said, "My W and I live completely separate lives. We've had issues for a long time and I never really loved her the way I should have to marry someone. Plus, something must be wrong if I'm having these strong feelings for you." NOW I realize these are all lines (I should have come to LS earlier!!) but I truly believed him b/c I felt his feelings for me and I had the same for him. I was naive and I believed everything he told me.

 

Then he said that he & his W were separated, but that was just in his head, as I learned later... he claimed to be living in a separate bedroom/ spare wing of their house. Two months later, when we were quite involved, he moved out of their house and into a friend's furnished condo. He left his beloved dogs at her house (and still goes there to pick them up whenever he goes running etc.) and most of his stuff. That was in May, and that's the situation as it remains to this day.

 

He had always said he was "separated pending mutual divorce," but when I asked him what was taking so long to file for divorce, he said she had changed her mind and no longer wanted it. She was dragging her feet, and he was letting her. I began to realize I was waiting for... something... to happen, and I had no idea what. I told him he needed to file on his own or I was out of there. He kept giving me excuses and saying he was waiting for her (they don't have children & they are in the same professions with about the same amount of mond etc.) and that he didn't want to hire a lawyer or make it messy.

 

I began to see where his priorities lied. And also how indecisive he was. I started saying we shouldn't see each other anymore until he got divorced, I said it was too hard on me and I'd never realized I was having an affair until he'd said she still wanted to be married. I felt guilty & horrible. But he kept telling me to just wait "another week or two"... for two months now he was saying that. When I WOULD say, "I need a break, I'm leaving," he would change it to "three days."

 

So yes, we've talked about expectations and promises, but he's never delivered. I was with him for 8 months. To me, if he really wanted to be divorced by now, he would be. He would at least file. That's why I say I believe that he means he loves me and feels he loves me, but his words are empty because he doesn't follow through on them. I can't wait around for him anymore. I loved the way we felt towards each other but there are a lot of highs and lows and it's addicting, like a drug (that accidentally lies to you, and sometimes purposefully manipulates you). It's not fun anymore and I forget why it ever was. I forget how I allowed myself to be so blind and close my eyes to so many important things. I want off this drug!

[NoIDidn't]

Have both of you tried to talk about expectations? Something concrete on what will happen in the future?

 

The word I highlighted is the one that I think of when considering a MM's promises in an A. He raises the expectations of the OW to unreal proportions with some of the loftier promises.

 

Promises about getting an overnight may be big to one OW and not to another. But the promises of a future together when the A is over are the ones that I wonder about the most.

 

Why say it, if it hasn't truly been something considered under more likely and realistic circumstances?

 

I also realize this isn't limited to MM. I think we all do it. To our family members and spouses. Like right now, I am saving money for a trip to Disney World that I promised my kids in three years when the new baby will be old enough to talk. I meant it when I said it. But I guest the difference that we are seeing in MM's promises is when they work towards actually keeping their word.

 

I have a hard time believing that a man that can break a promise to one woman will keep it for another (especially in the case of an A).

[lonegal]

nadiaj

 

Now I fully understand you. There was distrust from the start. The moment he did not mention that he was married is already a crack in the relationship to begin with. He had the time to tell you everything from the start and probably give you a choice with what you were getting into.

 

I know most people fall for these things unintentionally and in a blink of an eye are suddenly together. Some work, others dont - that's the truth to it.

 

Other A's may work partially with a sign of a brighter future ahead. It is because they have somewhat agreed on realistic expectations. As NoIdidnt mentioned, it's the heavier promises that has to be considered.

 

The way you will treat your situation is depedent on your tolerance. What makes you want to be with him, what pisses you off? At the end of the day it is up to you to weigh the things under consideration. Every experience here in the forum may have similarities with other forumers or even like you - but in reality, it's different. Sure you'll hear most of the people say 'dont do this', 'do that', others may not say how but by merely looking at their post you are bound to imitate a particular solution from a similar experience.

 

The hardest part is deciding on your own without having to be able to relate the experiences of others as posted or as felt by others. Every experience shared here is an 'experience by others', I can't judge everyone else for their predicament, I also can't imply what they can do about it. In an A, it always starts with the two of you, at least work within that circle.

 

Finally, the right decision for you may be not so right with others. It's something that needs careful thought on your own. Anyway, who knows - in the process, you'll probably discover something new about yourself.

[White Flower]

nadiaj

 

 

Finally, the right decision for you may be not so right with others. It's something that needs careful thought on your own. Anyway, who knows - in the process, you'll probably discover something new about yourself.

 

I love what you said here. I have discovered sooo many things about myself since my A started. I know what I need now. It says a lot about getting married young, doesn't it?

[Marielle]

I think they are sincere but do not have the balls to take a decision in some cases.

 

Too much holding them back, the kids, the comfort, what will ppl say, the right thing to do. It all come back to their senses when they go back to the wife every night.I

[Gwyneth]

My MM has pretty much been upfront with me. He said he Needs to get out of his marriage, but probably will not, and his reason is about money and her kid. Understandable, and I accepted from the start that there is no potentional future for he and I, and that was cool. We were both looking to have some risky fun. I agree though that some married men, and even those single men, will speak their mind at that very moment. People change their minds though--it's normal. Try figuring out how this man lies--watch his body language. I know my MM has a lot of doubts in his life, whether it be his marriage, or job, or vehicle he drives, etc. He is Always saying he needs to stop this, that, get rid of this, that, etc. So, when I figured out that he just "Talks," then I realized that he probably will not leave his wife and that was pretty much how it works for me.

 

Good Luck