MM Promises

[nadiaj2727]

Thank you for telling me what you think of our (former) situation through an xMM's perspective, it is very helpful. I thought you might say I should have been more patient and given him time to work through his divorce issues, which I just couldn't do. He said that if I loved him enough, I would. He said I abandoned him when he needed me most (when he was finalizing his divorce, which is how he always referred to it, although he never actually FILED for divorce and I don't think he came anywhere close to even making full-fledged plans for divorce except MAYBE after I left). To be fair, at the very end he said he understood now and he thinks this is best for us in order to be able to have a solid relationship down the road. But he kind of HAD to say that, as I was at that point BEGGING him to stop calling and texting me, and let me go... so I think it was one of those things where since what he said wasn't working (and was in fact making me very upset with him for manipulating my feelings/ actions to be all about HIM), he'd try to agree with me. I also think he said it to see how I would react when he said "for us to have a solid relationship in the future" or whatever... it was like as long as he thought I was holding out for him, he was still saying he would go through with it.

 

I agree that there was/ is something holding him back. I think he should work on his M and I told him so. I never wanted to be the reason he got divorced. Now since I've left there is more evidence of his divorce actually getting close -- independent evidence like people knowing about it besides just me, and some evidence from his wife but (I know this sounds bad) I think he may have forged some emails etc. so I'm not sure how much to believe about that -- and now my biggest fear is that he is only rushing it to prove to me that we should be together, and I no longer want to be with him. Others on this forum have told me that I shouldnt' feel bad or guilty about that, and that if he gets divorced, it's all his decision. But I can't help wanting to somehow remove myself from the picture completely -- like make up that I am getting married to someone else or something! -- to make sure that I have *nothing* at all to do with whatever his decision is. At this point the guilt of hiding this affair (which at first I thought was more like your situation, not an "affair") is really getting to me and I just wish I could undo my actions, but it's too late. I'm just very happy I got out when I did (although I tried to get out for a month and a half before I finally did, but he really wouldn't let me go for quite some time, and I cared too much for him to be heartless).

 

BTW our relationship (okay, affair) started in March and he moved out in May. So for 6 of the 8 months he was living on his own, I agree, why didn't he just get divorced?! (They have no children. They are in the same profession and make about the same amount of money and our state is a community property state so they just split their post-marriage assets 50/50. Our state has easy divorce laws, no separation period, etc... the only reason he ever gave me for the hold-up was that she didn't want the divorce and he didn't want to "make things messy" so he was waiting for her to accept it and file jointly with him). I'm really glad you see it my way because sometimes I wonder if I'm crazy and he really WAS getting divorced, just in his slow time, and if I was being impatient.

 

Again, congrats to you and your GF. When do you get to live in the same country?

[Nixson]

You're welcome. It wasn't much -- just honest thought on your situation. I wouldn't advice you to stay on even if you haven't moved on. I think you're wise enough to know when a man is holding onto his words. It was wrong of him to even think that you'd stay just because you love him. I did ask my GF how long would she wait -- her answer was she didn't know but definitely not forever! I took that as a sign that she could leave any time and that was the last thing I wanted. To lose her.

 

Are you trying to say that if he came up to your front door and say it's all over between him and W -- you wouldn't take him back?

 

Thank you again, Nadia. We are both taking things slowly. I think it would be a huge step for her to relocate but she has always played with the idea. I don't mind uprooting to her country -- haven't been there myself but heard a lot about it. She kept telling me she'd rather live where I am so that it'd be easier for my kids.

[OpenBook]

Most men make promises they can't keep. Why do they do that? They don't want to lose the one they love BUT by doing so most men don't see that that will make them lose the one they love even more.

 

That first sentence stopped me in my tracks. And it kept playing over and over again in my head as I read through the other posts in this thread. This also applies to the marriage vows you made to your (now ex-)W. So, what's to stop you from breaking your vows to your GF down the road?

 

As another poster (of the opposite sex) said in another thread, this type of post makes me even more afraid of commitment than I already am.

 

But I don't believe it's due to weakness or lack of character, on anyone's part. We are born to love. And love is a fickle thing. I guess I just distrust the notion that love can last forever... and that we human beings can actually pull it off successfully.

[Nixson]

What stops me is the fact that she has everything that I wanted in a partner. We connect on all levels. With my xW -- there was a lot of other issues. Why did we get married? She wanted kids (she was already in her late 30s) and I wanted kids as well. Was it the right reason to get married? At the time, yes. That is why with my GF -- we are both taking it one step at a time. If it takes us 3 or 4 years to actually get married -- it's fine for both of us, as long as we sort things out before we exchange our vows.

[frannie]

Hello Nixson,

 

I have a few questions for you too, if you don't mind.

 

First of all, you say you were chatting to lots of women online because it was 'the safest route'... route to what? What was different about OW when you met her online..? Did you stop chatting to others then..?

 

You say you didn't have any expectations of a serious relationship with OW, and nor did she 'because of the distance'. Of course at that point she didn't know you were married.

 

From what you wrote it seems that you allowed her to travel to see you in another country and still hadn't told her you were married..? Or is that not how it happened..? Just trying to get an idea of the timeline of your relationship and what may have been happening in her mind.

 

You say that once she discovered (did you tell her, or did she find out some other way?) you were married she no longer wanted anything to do with you. Went NC..? At what point in all this did you decide that it was her you wanted..? Before she visited you..? After she went NC..?

 

At what point did she come to LS and 'become discouraged', and why..?

 

And lastly (I think)... you have divorced now, but are still living in separate countries..? Why hasn't she made the move to be with you..? And why did you divorce to 'be with her' if you are not together..?

 

It just seems strange to me that while most MM with kids wouldn't divorce for love nor money (quite literally), you of all of them have, when it seems that even so you're not 'together' with your xOW at all..?

[NoIDidn't]

I have read some other threads and I can tell which OW are supporting OW and who are not.

 

Not everyone here is an OW. Not all of us believe in supporting in the sense of hand holding while someone waits to get hit by the train either. If your OW now GF was here and told us the story of finding out that you were married and you didn't tell her up front, support would have been telling her to walk away permanently or until you could be up front and truthful with her (as neglecting to state that you are married is a lie of omission and very hurtful and likely to cause major trust issues).

 

Its good to know that you didn't promise her anything, but you didn't exactly tell her the truth either. It was just keeping with the MO you were starting with it seems, "safer". Not trying to bash you, but I am having a hard time making heads or tails of your logic. It just doesn't seem to me that a man that was chatting with women online because they were "safer" and failed to tell the one the bit (or that he really started to like even after he really started to like/love her) that he was married, is all that clear or sincere in what he wants. But that's JMHO.

[nadiaj2727]

Nixson--

 

Are you trying to say that if he came up to your front door and say it's all over between him and W -- you wouldn't take him back?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's funny, he asked me the same question. But it was in terms of, "are you going to date other guys or are you going to be available when I get divorced?" At the time I said (and felt) "I don't know, that depends. I'm not giving you any guarantees or commitments or obligations, when you can't give me all of yourself. If you're divorced, you can come ask me out like any single guy would do to any single girl, and see what my circumstances are at the time." (I was probably too harsh on him but he was driving me BANANAS by begging me to stay without delivering on any of his promises... it sounded like it was all about him, him, him and nothing about how I was feeling.) Then he asked me the doorstep-with-papers question and at the time, again, I said, "I don't know, I don't know how I'll feel or react then, and at this time, I don't even know if I'll be able to date you ever again. Now that I realized what the situation is -- that we cheated on your wife, instead of you two being mutually separated pending divorce -- I have so much guilt and shame and I don't want to relive that all the time being in a relationship with you post-divorce, and seeing her around town, etc. It is just not the situation I thought it was, and it's NOT too late to get out of it for now, but I'm not sure if I'll want to get back into it in the future."

 

The problem is that now I've decided I don't want to be with him, period, even if he comes to me TOMORROW with papers (which is what he kept saying... weeks ago...) I'm tired of being strung along and asked to wait. I have honestly moved on with my life and even though I still have a strong connection/ attraction/ romantic feelings for him, I realize that's not real love, and he's not the man he presented himself to me as in the beginning.

 

It has something to do with what you said here:

I did ask my GF how long would she wait -- her answer was she didn't know but definitely not forever! I took that as a sign that she could leave any time and that was the last thing I wanted. To lose her.

 

He didn't ask me how long I would wait. Instead, he told me from the start that he was just about divorced. Once *I* got antsy and started asking for details, he would tell me "a week or two" until they filed over and over... as if I were so stupid that I would keep waiting without realizing it was never happening like he said it would. True, I waited too long... I heard "a week or two" about three times after it came and went, and at one point, when really trying to leave, I heard "three days", "Monday"... all of which came and went, each time showing me I really really needed to leave.

 

Like your GF, I couldn't wait forever, and I started to think, "I've already wasted 7 months on this relationship that hasn't offered me what I really want -- exclusivity and stability and normalcy etc. If he had been thinking like you, he would have realized, "here's my chance, I must take it, or I will lose her." He never realized that... even after I told him several times I needed to leave until he was divorced. It's not like one day I just said "that's it, I'm out of here" randomly. I feel I was patient and I tried not to nag but when I realized he wasn't doing it, and I didn't want to MAKE him do it nor keep it my business anymore why it wasn't being done, I decided, this is not the right situation for me. And I really feel that if he truly LOVED me, the kind of love I want (NOT self-serving, which his is, NOT grabbing onto me desparately as a lifeboat), then he never would have put me in such an unhealthy position, and he definitely wouldn't be stringing me along waiting there. He would have said, "Wow, things are getting a lot more complicated than I thought. I don't want to drag you through this mess. I am going to straighten my **** out, so that I can prove to you I love you and I can offer you everything you deserve. I really hope you are still single when I get done, and of course I'm going to hurry b/c I realize you have to get a move on with your life as well."

 

He didn't do that. He lost his chance. He was selfish and needy instead of strong and loving. When I reflect back on so many things, I *know* I don't want to be with him, and I'm quite afraid he *will* come to my doorstep with divorce papers. And then what? I won't want him.

 

I've been wondering if I should tell him that I'm 100 % sure I don't want to be with him, just so there are no surprises and just in case he's getting divorced to prove to me he wants to be with me. But how would I do this? I've begged and pleaded and FINALLY got no contact from him (for like a week now, except at work... we work together... and he's been really good about keeping the work conversation about actual work stuff, unlike in the past). So do I just call him up and rub salt in his wounds? ("Hi there, long time no talk... I know I told you I didn't know if I'd want to be with you when you're divorced, well, now I know for sure that I don't.") ?? I don't want to crush him now but I really don't want to crush him later, if he does get divorced thinking it's for the purpose of being with me. (Although sometimes I think, yeah right, he's not getting divorced and he never was, no matter what signs he shows me of things moving in that direction. Sometimes I think why worry about this when he's probably back with his wife already, or seeking out a new girl? I know that's cynical but I just can't trust him anymore about anything and I know he was in an indecisive and self-destruction position for 8 months, so I really don't know what he would do... rush to my door with divorce papers, thinking I'm his savior, or rush back to his wife, thinking I'm his betrayer (which he has called me), or rush onto someone new. All I know is that he definitely can't be alone. He doesn't know how to. That's why I'm thinking he'll either run back to her or do something drastic for me. I would much prefer the former. What do you think Nixson? Should I make it clear to him I no longer want to be with him in any way, shape or form? Or should I just hang back and see how things pan out, b/c it might be irrelevant anyway?

[Nixson]

Hi Frannie. Safest route to not have anything serious. At the time, I was only looking for someone to talk to, it wasn't my intention to fall in love with anyone. The difference between my GF and others (I have chatted with online -- not all women!) was that my GF has a lot of pride and dignity. I don't know why you asked but yes, I stopped chatting with others after a few months of getting to know one another, so did she but like any other relationships, we had our issues from time to time.

 

Everything was already out of the bag when she visited me. I wouldn't have let her traveled all the way here without her knowing the truth. We also met each other months after she found out. There were times where I wanted to tell her but the thought of losing her was unbearable. My GF found out from my xW and GF was upset (for obvious reason!) and decided not to talk to me or have anything to do with me. My calls were ignored -- emails were not replied. It was too late but I wouldn't have wanted her to find out about it the way she did and I don't blame her for not wanting to have any sort of contact with me. I realized during that time that I need her in my life. I was miserable and not myself at all.

 

I know she needed someone to talk to or women who are in the same situation. I can't expect her to tell me everything -- although I told time and again that she can ask me anything and I will answer all her questions. I have no idea why you're so interested to know when she felt discouraged -- I would say somewhere after she found I was married, can't remember which month exactly but I was told by my GF that she wasn't getting the support she needed here. Not from all, anyway.

 

The 1001 questions. I have JUST recently divorced. Believe me -- if it was up to me, we would already be married but she chose to take things slowly. SHE wanted me to have some space of my own before any of us make a move to be with one another. There are many other issues to tackle before we can be together -- religion, her studies, my kids. She has never been married so taking her time to make sure we can work out every issue is wise of her? I have lived on my own a lot of times but she is still very much new to a lot of things so I am giving her all the time for her to adjust.

[Nixson]

What do you think Nixson? Should I make it clear to him I no longer want to be with him in any way, shape or form? Or should I just hang back and see how things pan out, b/c it might be irrelevant anyway?

 

Nadia, I think you have answered your own question. If you re-read your post, it stated there that you really don't want him around anymore. It's just a case of you wanting to tell him or let him realize it on his own.

 

I suggest you make it clear to him that you do not want him in your life. Make it plain and simple. It will hurt him but he'll get over it. So will you. My GF keeps telling me that if I feel differently about her -- now or in the future -- I must be honest about it and I will. We both promised each other to be honest when it comes to our feelings for one another. She said it will hurt her but at least she knows the truth. Same thing with me. I wish you good luck and if that was how he treated you, Nadia -- not doing anything to be with you -- you deserve better, much better.

[sadbuttrue]

am i the only OW whose MM doesnt make any damn promises? maybe i am lucky? i dont know. i just know that he has never promised to leave his W, quite the opposite, he has told me point blank that he will not leave his kids (which to me, is saying he is not leaving her, but whatever). anyway, the most i have gotten is if it wasnt for the kids, things would be different, but that doesnt help me.

 

i am still in this mess with no end in sight. maybe one day.......

[NearlyThere]

am i the only OW whose MM doesnt make any damn promises? maybe i am lucky? i dont know. i just know that he has never promised to leave his W, quite the opposite, he has told me point blank that he will not leave his kids (which to me, is saying he is not leaving her, but whatever). anyway, the most i have gotten is if it wasnt for the kids, things would be different, but that doesnt help me.

 

i am still in this mess with no end in sight. maybe one day.......

 

 

No. mine never made any promises either about anything, he always told it exactly as it was, even if it hurt at the time to hear. I think I was lucky in relation to that as well. Funnily enough mine told me point blank he would never leave his kids however, like you I know leaving his W was mixed up in there as well.

 

I finished with him last week finally, end of 2 and a bit years, at the moment it seems permanent. Eventually you say, enough is enough, you will know when you get there I'm sure.

[sadbuttrue]

i can see myself hanging in there another year, which really makes me sad. but it is my choice, and i am making it all of my own free will.

[GreenEyedLady]

i can see myself hanging in there another year, which really makes me sad. but it is my choice, and i am making it all of my own free will.

 

What do you expect to change in your life in the year?

[sadbuttrue]

well, i really have no expectations. i really do hope that my situation with MM will resolve in some way, honestly i want to end up with him. if i dont, then it wasnt meant to be, but i know i have at least one more year left in me i love him so much.

[GreenEyedLady]

well, i really have no expectations. i really do hope that my situation with MM will resolve in some way, honestly i want to end up with him. if i dont, then it wasnt meant to be, but i know i have at least one more year left in me i love him so much.

 

You seem to be coping better! I'm really glad.

 

(((HUGS)))

[sadbuttrue]

thank you so much gel. i am really trying to do better from what i have read, your situation seems to be going well too. i am happy for you.

[whichwayisup]

Put a deadline on it and the stick to it. If a year goes by and things are the same as they are now, then I really hope you have the strength to get out.

 

One thing though - He's said he won't leave because of his kids. In a year, his kids will still be at home so I'm not sure I understand why waiting another year will make a difference?

[sadbuttrue]

yes, he is not leaving the kids. i believe that. but if she leaves him, then he really has no choice i guess. i am not saying that will happen, but if it does i truly do want to be with him. if we are still in the same place after a second year together, i will have to make some hard choices i think. we do love each other, and that can get a person through quite a lot thought to be unbearable.

[GreenEyedLady]

thank you so much gel. i am really trying to do better from what i have read, your situation seems to be going well too. i am happy for you.

 

You really sound alot better!

 

Thanks! It is going well...

[whichwayisup]

. but if she leaves him

 

The chances of her leaving her kids is slim to none. Sorry, but this woman gave birth to these kids, so there's no way she is going to leave them either.

[whichwayisup]

we do love each other,

 

Sure he probably does love you, but it isn't enough to make him leave his wife and turn his kids lives upside down. He has chosen to stick it out no matter what and he will have you in his life as things are now for as long as you allow it. I know you love him, want him, but you are selling yourself short. He will still be with all of them over Christmas, holidays, birthdays, vacations...And that has to hurt you alot, which is why I hope one day soon you get out so you can have your own family, kids, husband, the works and share it all! Just this guy isn't going to be the one to give this to you.

[sadbuttrue]

The chances of her leaving her kids is slim to none. Sorry, but this woman gave birth to these kids, so there's no way she is going to leave them either.

 

talking about her leaving him, being MM. of course i wouldnt think she would leave the kids, there are two boys.

[whichwayisup]

The same reason why he won't leave her -aka the kids. She won't leave him because of the kids. That is what I meant, sorry.. Anyway, they stay for the same reason, the kids and if that really IS the case, then nothing will change that.

[GreenEyedLady]

I think that SBT gets that...but she's accepted that and is going to stay for the time being...

[nadiaj2727]

I think that SBT gets that...but she's accepted that and is going to stay for the time being...

 

In no possible view can this be looked at as a smart choice, SBT. Think of what you really want. It can't be staying with a man who know is not going to leave his wife. That will only bring you heartache. I think some people here feel that point of this forum is to "support" OW to stay in situations that are obviously very painful for them. I want to "support" you to leave this situation. You are letting this man have such big pieces of your heart/ soul and he is not giving you what you deserve in return. This is not a good coping strategy by any means, GEL. Be stronger, SBT. Stop letting this guy walk away with all the pieces of your heart that should belong to YOU, not him.