MM Promises

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Sorry I respectfully disagree with you. Affairs ARE black or white, right or wrong, good or evil yes or no situations for all. Yes, they are all different with different circumstances, but they all have one thing in common, they are part of deceit and lies. They are part of a slow murder of a relationship. Yes some relationships are already on their death beds, but usually nothing gets buried before it is truly dead. We never put an almost dead or a nearly dead body in the ground. Burial can only occur after there has been a death, not a supposed death, but a confirmed death.

 

 

And no matter what he married person tells you about their marriages( how horrible the spouse is, how emotionally cold, how hard and angry they are) they have made the decision to stay married up to this point. That means the marriage still has some life in it. And as long as their isn't a certificate of divorce, that marriage lives in the eyes of society, the law, and whether you believe in HIM or not, God.

 

So there is an easy yes/no answer to having an affair. ARE you married, if the answer is yes, then no I will not have an affair with you emotional or physical.

 

And I respectfully disagree with your perspective - but because I am walking a different path to you and have not endured the pain of betrayal that you have, I can empathise.

 

Because marital partners have vows to guide them, there are black and white areas - therefore a vow has been broken in committing adultery and therefore the wrong of the situation is obvious.

 

OW have no vows with the MM and that, IMO, is where the grey areas are exposed. We have only the knowledge that vows to another have been taken, but using a BWs vows as a parameter for our own relationship with MM is not, IMO, valid nor expected in my situation.

[White Flower]

You and I will respectfully disagree. I will not assume your value system is the same as mine and you can't assume that my value system is the same as yours.

 

I do conduct my life based on the Word of God and according to his word, sleeping with someone else's spouse is calling damnation on yourself. That same word says that I do not have the right to judge your actions. I am human and I sin, therefore I am not qualified to judge your sins. I am to love and treat you as I would like to be treated. With that said, God bless you.

 

 

I would like to ask a question though. If you aren't expected to use the vows of another as a parameter of how you should behave toward something that belongs to someone else(a marriage is the property of the family. They work at it, they build it, they mess it up, they change it, they invest in it, they ignore it. It is part of them)then does that mean you believe that you have a right to take whatever else you want in a marital home? Furnishings, clothing, jewelry? Because there are boundaries that are there for most of us. I am just curious to what your thoughts are as to when you should respect boundaries and live your life accordingly.

With all due respect, BnB, I'd like to jump in even though you did not ask me the question.

 

It is hard to compare a human being to an item that was purchased. If you lost the item in a fire, oh well, it is replacable. If you lost your H in an A, oh well, he is replacable or forgivable. I could not understand that for years, but I do now. (Please don't say I'm hoping to lose my H in a fire, it was just a very quick and simple analogy.)

 

Let me ask you a question. And I'm not poking fun at all. I too am married and I have been hurt by an A. If when you took your vows and the minister asked, "And do you take ownership of this man?" instead of "Do you take this man as your lawful husband, etc..", would you not have laughed at him? Do you think men would even allow those words to be said in front of all to hear? Perhaps they wouldn't mind taking ownership of us as women, but I don't believe most men would go for it.

[White Flower]

WhiteFlower --

 

You cannot simply believe that all OW are the same? Am I to assume that all dark-haired pencil pushers are boring, judgemental, and predictable? Of course not. Some of us DO give a damn about others. That may be the VERY reason we end it. Don't put everyone into the same box. And even if they are that way it doesn't mean they will always be that way. We are here to change and grow whether we change the way Nadia did or not. Whether we change as quickly as Nadia did or not. If we do not change or improve our lives, then we are wasting time on this planet.

 

I totally agree with everything you just said. And I think that there are OWs who give a damn about others. I think that an OW who gives a damn about others will eventually end her affair, because having an affair goes against caring about others (and, in many respects, ourselves). But I agree that OWs are in all kinds of different situations and there is no telling their reasons for staying in an affair. I know there are many OWs who honestly believe they are doing the right thing. Or they know they are doing the wrong thing but for a "right" reason, be it love, or whatever, therefore, they stay. I have nothing to say against them. I was talking about OWs who boldly state that they don't care about the wife or family of the MM because it is not their responsibility. I think that we as humans owe each other more than this flagrant self-regard. I think we need to take responsibility for our own actions and not say, "Well, he's the one cheating on his wife." (In which case he can easily tell his wife, "She was the one willing to cheat with me" or, worse, "she TEMPTED me until I gave in" on D-Day). WhiteFlower I have never seen anything from your posts except self-reflection and humility and deep thought (unlike mine, which get hostile sometimes and sound judgmental accidentally). I can't judge you in the least, I'm sure you have very good reasons for being with your MM.

Thanks, Nadia. I do have my reasons. Mostly at this point I believe it is a learning process for me. It will end and I will have learned. I hope he learns something valuable too, but my truest concern is for my growth. Good luck in your future.

[nadiaj2727]

you "reformed" because you thought you were doing something bad? And did you feel you were doing something bad after he decided to end it?

 

No, he didn't decide to end it (he still doesn't want it to be over), I decided to end it and I ended it. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, because I DID have feelings for him and I felt like I had been deceived and made a fool of but I also still had hopes of being with him in the future, etc... but I just called it off with him because it was not the right thing to be doing. It was a crappy situation for me to have allowed myself to be in. In answer to your other question, yes, I reformed because I thought I was doing something bad. I stopped my bad behavior, which to me, was sleeping with/ carrying on a relationship with a man who was married to someone else.

 

In the beginning I really didn't feel guilty or wrong, b/c I believed everything he told me, that he and his wife were separated pending mutual divorce. He moved out a couple months into our A, which he told me he was going to do anyway as they had been living in separate areas of their house, but looking back, I see that he moved out because of me. A few months went by, and still no signs of divorce. He told she had changed her mind and was urging counseling. She was asking him if he was seeing anyone (and he was denying it). I saw a book she gave him about how couples can work out their problems. I began to feel very guilty. It was never my intention to have an affair -- he told me, and I sincerely believed, that their marriage had long been over and was on the way to divorce before he even met me. I was very naive and gullible, I realize that now -- I really believed everything he said because I thought he was an awesome guy and I loved him and wanted to be with him.

 

But once I realized he was still quite married, and his wife did NOT want to get divorced and instead wanted to work on things, I felt very guilty. I could no longer feel all lovey-dovey when I was wondering why this "awesome" guy wasn't doing the right thing -- for his wife, for me, for anyone, and why I was going along with it. I began to distance myself and look at the situation from a more objective perspective, and I saw what it really was: that their marriage had been old and stale before I came along, but definitely not "over", there was still life in it, and it was never my intention to "take" him from his wife or help him cheat on her. I felt very slimy when I realized that was the case.

 

He still denies it but I think he was in great denial the entire time and accidentally (and sometimes on purpose) trapped me in his denial, indecision, and deception. That is NOT a life I want to live in. That's why I don't think it could ever work out for us even if he got divorced, b/c unfortunately I realized he is not a person of integrity. He twists the truth to make himself look better and get what he wants. He did it to his wife, to everyone else (almost no one even knew they were living separately) and to me. I used to be the same way, but I consider myself reformed now. I have integrity now. I don't mean to be judgmental and I'm going to stop giving advice to other people.

 

It's okay with me if people are happy in their affairs. I'm not going to go be the affair police. I am just saying that I personally realized that I was doing something very wrong, and I changed, and now I feel I have some experience/ advice to give others like me who didn't realize what they were doing and who now want to "get out of it". But for those who don't want to get out of it, okay, I am no one to tell anyone what to do. I was quite confused myself until a couple months ago, and only a couple weeks ago was I able to finally be strong enough to do the right thing (FOR ME by breaking off contact with him.

 

I wouldn't say the experience made me a better person, because having an affair was the worst thing I've ever done. I feel like if I murdered someone, it would be hard for me to say "now I'm a better person because I murdered someone." I think I would have been a better person all along had I not murdered someone, aka, had an affair. But I did learn a lot from it, so, I guess some could say it made me a better person. I've learned not to believe everything a guy says just because we think we're in love with each other. I've learned that marriage is sacred -- I've never been married or divorced so it really caused me to evaluate what I think it is, and I *don't* think that it should go the way my xMM was dealing with it and treating his W. And I think it reformed my character because at one point in my past I obviously thought it was okay to live deceptively if I "justified" it (in this case, I was justifying it b/c I thought we were going to end up together and it would all be okay soon... I didn't realize that I can't just slough off the past and go into a bright and shiny future with the same guy that was deceiving everyone, including himself and me, to be with me, and with whom I was being deceptive to others).

 

Now I feel very strongly that it is NEVER okay to be deceptive, to lie or to cheat, under any circumstance. I don't think my affair made me a better person, but I would say I learned from the mistake and reformed my character so that now I know I will never be in that bad situation (or other situations involving cheating, lying, living a double life, hurting others, etc.) again.

 

I hope this clears up my situation and why I feel I've reformed. Again, I've learned that for me it is not okay to cheat but at one time I didn't think that, so I'm not trying to judge people who currently are in the situation I was in before I got out of it. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

[nadiaj2727]

WhiteFlower --

 

Mostly at this point I believe it is a learning process for me. It will end and I will have learned.

 

I think we're a lot alike. I definitely learned so much, and I hope to never again have to learn such beneficial things by doing something that stripped me (temporarily! of my self-worth and sense of values. Good luck. I forget the specifics of your situation as well, but is MM saying he'll get divorced and be with you or does he say he can't leave his W? Either way I think he should just marry you, you sound like the perfect catch!

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

You and I will respectfully disagree. I will not assume your value system is the same as mine and you can't assume that my value system is the same as yours.

 

I do conduct my life based on the Word of God and according to his word, sleeping with someone else's spouse is calling damnation on yourself. That same word says that I do not have the right to judge your actions. I am human and I sin, therefore I am not qualified to judge your sins. I am to love and treat you as I would like to be treated. With that said, God bless you.

 

 

I would like to ask a question though. If you aren't expected to use the vows of another as a parameter of how you should behave toward something that belongs to someone else(a marriage is the property of the family. They work at it, they build it, they mess it up, they change it, they invest in it, they ignore it. It is part of them)then does that mean you believe that you have a right to take whatever else you want in a marital home? Furnishings, clothing, jewelry? Because there are boundaries that are there for most of us. I am just curious to what your thoughts are as to when you should respect boundaries and live your life accordingly.

 

BNB, they're your religious views and therefore you are coming from a different perspective to me. We may share gods, yet my interpretation of them is massively different from yours. In my life, I am not knocking on the door of damnation. IMO Ceremonial circumstance doesn't change love or bonds letargically speaking, although societal values and the ceremonies that have been honed over the centuries dispute that. God IS love - but that's another discussion...

 

I'll answer your question, although I agree with WF, human beings cannot be compared to possessions. However, in the spirit of your analogy...

 

Say that a dog wanders up your path. He has a collar on, yet he has been badly treat, he's hungry, lost, and craves warmth. You find out he has an owner and you try to give him back to his owner, but you become attached to the dog and the dog becomes attached to you. The original owner appears to not care about the dog until s/he realise that their dog is being fed and groomed at another household. "But that's MY dog! I bought a license for it! The dog may have wandered up your garden path but I own it!" Yet, the second owner finds it absurd that the original owner only wants the dog now that he has been groomed, looks healthy, has been fed and is strong. And the dog? Well, he is confused. There is familiarity with his original owner and he will always wag his tail at he or she. But his new owner hasn't ever hurt him or ignored him and he likes being warm and content. Yet, he has a licence and that determines his ownership and therefore his original owner takes him home.

 

In that analogy, can you see how I don't believe I "helped myself"?

[luvmy2ns]

BNB, they're your religious views and therefore you are coming from a different perspective to me. We may share gods, yet my interpretation of them is massively different from yours. In my life, I am not knocking on the door of damnation. IMO Ceremonial circumstance doesn't change love or bonds letargically speaking, although societal values and the ceremonies that have been honed over the centuries dispute that. God IS love - but that's another discussion...

 

I'll answer your question, although I agree with WF, human beings cannot be compared to possessions. However, in the spirit of your analogy...

 

Say that a dog wanders up your path. He has a collar on, yet he has been badly treat, he's hungry, lost, and craves warmth. You find out he has an owner and you try to give him back to his owner, but you become attached to the dog and the dog becomes attached to you. The original owner appears to not care about the dog until s/he realise that their dog is being fed and groomed at another household. "But that's MY dog! I bought a license for it! The dog may have wandered up your garden path but I own it!" Yet, the second owner finds it absurd that the original owner only wants the dog now that he has been groomed, looks healthy, has been fed and is strong. And the dog? Well, he is confused. There is familiarity with his original owner and he will always wag his tail at he or she. But his new owner hasn't ever hurt him or ignored him and he likes being warm and content. Yet, he has a licence and that determines his ownership and therefore his original owner takes him home.

 

In that analogy, can you see how I don't believe I "helped myself"?

 

If you find absolute proof the "dog" (what a GREAT and PERFECT analogy, BTW!) has been mistreated, then f the owner. However, REAL dogs cannot talk, therefore, they cannot lie, unlike the "dogs" most OW are with. They talk you into believing they've been "abused" and need warmth and comfort. And y'all suck it up.

[White Flower]

If you find absolute proof the "dog" (what a GREAT and PERFECT analogy, BTW!) has been mistreated, then f the owner. However, REAL dogs cannot talk, therefore, they cannot lie, unlike the "dogs" most OW are with. They talk you into believing they've been "abused" and need warmth and comfort. And y'all suck it up.

 

Everyone on this thread will have found you and your post completely predictable, I'm sure. I knew it would be you who responded and I knew you would laugh at the dog analogy, which was excellent by the way.

 

Not all MM fit this analogy and JNRR did not suggest that. Yes, some MM are liars and most of us can see right through them. You cannot go around simply believing that all men are the same; all cheaters are the same; and all brunettes are the same. We've had this discussion before.

 

Here's another analogy for you. When you throw a rock into a pack of wolves, the one you hit is the one who cries the loudest.

[luvmy2ns]

Everyone on this thread will have found you and your post completely predictable, I'm sure. I knew it would be you who responded and I knew you would laugh at the dog analogy, which was excellent by the way.

 

Not all MM fit this analogy and JNRR did not suggest that. Yes, some MM are liars and most of us can see right through them. You cannot go around simply believing that all men are the same; all cheaters are the same; and all brunettes are the same. We've had this discussion before.

 

Here's another analogy for you. When you throw a rock into a pack of wolves, the one you hit is the one who cries the loudest.

 

...which will be the run-of-the-mill OW after her MM is done.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

...which will be the run-of-the-mill OW after her MM is done.

 

I'm sorry luv, but your generalisation does not quite fit my situation. And as all situations are different I'm guessing that it wont fit a few others either.

 

You see, I have the proof that the dog was mistreated - right from the owners mouth. I have it confirmed from authorities of the occurrences that happened in some emotive abusive events. And I have been on the losing end of some of these events too. I have a birds eye view of bad treatment. I don't need to "suck it up". I see it for myself. Believe me, there have been times when I have questioned treatment. But events were confirmed eventually and I can trust my judgement on that. I don't need you to do it for me.

 

Not all MMs are dogs, not all OWs are bad people, not all BWs are not bitter. There are bad situations, sure. But sometimes, we're just trying to feel our way in the dark and hoping we're going to come out in the light.

[White Flower]

WhiteFlower --

 

Mostly at this point I believe it is a learning process for me. It will end and I will have learned.

 

I think we're a lot alike. I definitely learned so much, and I hope to never again have to learn such beneficial things by doing something that stripped me (temporarily! of my self-worth and sense of values. Good luck. I forget the specifics of your situation as well, but is MM saying he'll get divorced and be with you or does he say he can't leave his W? Either way I think he should just marry you, you sound like the perfect catch!

Well you are just the sweetest! In my dreams, I am the perfect catch and he does marry me. But I will never ask him to leave her for me and I know he will never do it on his own.

 

He is "loyal to a fault." And that means staying by her side like he promised.

 

Our EA-turned-PA was never supposed to happen. We both just had an electric connection and finally caved into it. But, I am distraught at having to hide my greatest joy (besides my kids) in my life. That is where Luvmy2ns is correct and I don't mind admitting it. You shouldn't have to hide if you aren't ashamed of something. I'd like to scream it (my love for MM) from the mountaintops, but I just can't. And I'm not going to turn someone else's life upside down just because I want her H for my own. I may have been selfish for a while, but I cannot be so selfish as to ruin someone else's entire life plan. That's just not me.

 

He would also like to be with me in his dreams. But he cannot bare the pain it would cause his family and close friends. And I cannot hang on like this forever. Life is short!

 

Thanks for your caring and your advice. Good luck in the future.

[White Flower]

ALL MM are liars. They are lying to themselves and they are lying to their families. When they put their wee willie winkies in someone other than their wives, they are lying to themselves that they are even men.

Actually, putting their WWW into anyone proves they are men. And some happen to be very up front with their wives about what is going on. I'm very sorry if yours wasn't up front with you.

 

But the point was that some MM are just serial cheaters, therefore lie up front from the very begnning. Others do not neccessarily plan on cheating from the beginning and find themselves in a predicament later. I'm sure most of them become liars at that stage, especially if they continue. I hope my admitting that to you makes you feel better.

[White Flower]

Originally posted by bentnotbroken >

And you are right about the minister saying do I take ownership, I would have laughed and then said " YOU DAMN SKIPPIN!"

 

That's cute.

[Lyssa]

No, he didn't decide to end it (he still doesn't want it to be over), I decided to end it and I ended it.

 

I hope this clears up my situation and why I feel I've reformed. Again, I've learned that for me it is not okay to cheat but at one time I didn't think that, so I'm not trying to judge people who currently are in the situation I was in before I got out of it. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

 

It's sad that it didn't end up the way you wanted to but it is for the best that you ended it seeing that he didn't hold on to his words and pretty much wasn't being truthful about his moving out etc.

 

I don't see you as being judgmental. Not in my eyes, anyway. You're just stating how you see things differently. It's hard for some OW to admit that and I admire you for doing so. I knew all along it isn't right to be with a MM but it happened to me. It was a crazy experience but all worth it now that he is divorced.

[NoIDidn't]

Say that a dog wanders up your path. He has a collar on, yet he has been badly treat, he's hungry, lost, and craves warmth. You find out he has an owner and you try to give him back to his owner, but you become attached to the dog and the dog becomes attached to you. The original owner appears to not care about the dog until s/he realise that their dog is being fed and groomed at another household. "But that's MY dog! I bought a license for it! The dog may have wandered up your garden path but I own it!" Yet, the second owner finds it absurd that the original owner only wants the dog now that he has been groomed, looks healthy, has been fed and is strong. And the dog? Well, he is confused. There is familiarity with his original owner and he will always wag his tail at he or she. But his new owner hasn't ever hurt him or ignored him and he likes being warm and content. Yet, he has a licence and that determines his ownership and therefore his original owner takes him home.

 

In that analogy, can you see how I don't believe I "helped myself"?

 

Wow, what an ubelievably bad analogy. Sorry JeNe.

 

It makes the MM seem like he is totally helpless to groom and feed himself. A man doesn't need a woman to do that for him. Really, really bad analogy.

[luvmy2ns]

Well you are just the sweetest! In my dreams, I am the perfect catch and he does marry me. But I will never ask him to leave her for me and I know he will never do it on his own.

 

He is "loyal to a fault." And that means staying by her side like he promised.

 

Our EA-turned-PA was never supposed to happen. We both just had an electric connection and finally caved into it. But, I am distraught at having to hide my greatest joy (besides my kids) in my life. That is where Luvmy2ns is correct and I don't mind admitting it. You shouldn't have to hide if you aren't ashamed of something. I'd like to scream it (my love for MM) from the mountaintops, but I just can't. And I'm not going to turn someone else's life upside down just because I want her H for my own. I may have been selfish for a while, but I cannot be so selfish as to ruin someone else's entire life plan. That's just not me.

 

He would also like to be with me in his dreams. But he cannot bare the pain it would cause his family and close friends. And I cannot hang on like this forever. Life is short!

 

Thanks for your caring and your advice. Good luck in the future.

 

OH, WF, don't go on like this then! As much as you love this man, you deserve one who will stand beside you on that proverbial mountaintop and scream in unison WITH you to all who can hear! It's noble of you to not insist that he confront his W, but what about you? What about your needs; your "happily ever after?" It can happen, the "happily ever after." I truly believe that and refuse to believe otherwise. There is a man who can share that with you, but you'll never be free to find him if you continue with this MM.

[nadiaj2727]

I am distraught at having to hide my greatest joy (besides my kids) in my life. That is where Luvmy2ns is correct and I don't mind admitting it. You shouldn't have to hide if you aren't ashamed of something. I'd like to scream it (my love for MM) from the mountaintops, but I just can't. And I'm not going to turn someone else's life upside down just because I want her H for my own. I may have been selfish for a while, but I cannot be so selfish as to ruin someone else's entire life plan. That's just not me.

 

I cannot hang on like this forever. Life is short!

 

I understand what you mean. With my xMM I really thought he was on his way to being divorced, and I so looked forward to the day we could go out in public together! (We went out to a few far-away restaurants but he would always have to go inside first and walk around and make sure he didn't know anybody in there. I can't believe I put up with that, but I was so excited just be on a nice "date" with him.) He would tell me how he was proud of me and he couldn't wait to show the world his love for me. Whenever good things happened to him at work or at athletic events etc. I would always want to say "that's my man!" but I couldn't yet (I thought "yet") and it really panged me. I hated the secrecy.

 

You're right, life is short, too short to hang on forever. I know you have a really strong connection and love with your MM but I think you can find a similar thing with a single man, that you can share with the rest of the world. It won't be exactly the same thing, but it will be better in some ways... at least that way anyway! It sucks that we both had to find such super strong connections with men that weren't really available to give us everything else we deserve.

[nadiaj2727]

Say that a dog wanders up your path. He has a collar on, yet he has been badly treat, he's hungry, lost, and craves warmth. You find out he has an owner and you try to give him back to his owner, but you become attached to the dog and the dog becomes attached to you. The original owner appears to not care about the dog until s/he realise that their dog is being fed and groomed at another household. "But that's MY dog! I bought a license for it! The dog may have wandered up your garden path but I own it!"

 

Yet, the second owner finds it absurd that the original owner only wants the dog now that he has been groomed, looks healthy, has been fed and is strong. And the dog? Well, he is confused. There is familiarity with his original owner and he will always wag his tail at he or she. But his new owner hasn't ever hurt him or ignored him and he likes being warm and content. Yet, he has a license and that determines his ownership and therefore his original owner takes him home.

 

But men aren't dogs. Men should be strong and able to help themselves (women too), not wondering around lost for women to find and save and treat better than the last woman who abused them. I don't understand how comparing your relationship to rescuing a stray and abused dog could be a good thing?? Don't relationships work best when the two people are each individually happy/ strong/ healthy BEFORE they become a couple?

 

I'm not trying to be snotty, I just really don't understand how this analogy is good.

[nadiaj2727]

You cannot go around simply believing that all men are the same; all cheaters are the same; and all brunettes are the same.

We can assume that all cheaters cheat, right? We can't assume that all men do the same thing or that all brunettes do the same thing, but from the very word "cheater" we can assume that all cheaters are cheating... therefore, there is one quality/ action about them that is the same no matter what the other circumstances are.

[nadiaj2727]

It's sad that it didn't end up the way you wanted to but it is for the best that you ended it seeing that he didn't hold on to his words and pretty much wasn't being truthful about his moving out etc

 

I don't see you as being judgmental. Not in my eyes, anyway. You're just stating how you see things differently. It's hard for some OW to admit that and I admire you for doing so..

 

Thank you very much for understanding. It was really hard for me to admit that my "romantic dream" was just a dillusion, and that the whole time (at least since I first realized he wasn't really getting a mutual divorce) I had been doing something wrong that I thought felt so right. It was admitting that I had used poor judgment and that I had been naive and selfish, and that the man who claimed to love me so much was actually just indecisive, weak, selfish, a liar, etc. Those were really hard things to admit but I feel much better now that I admitted them and moved on.

 

I do realize that not everyone feels this way. I realize that in some circumstances people know they are doing the wrong thing for the right reason (like it sounds like you're saying was your case) or people that think they're doing the right thing. I also know I was so unhappy while I was doing the wrong thing, and I realized that there was no "right" reason to be doing it because most of the time, MM has everything to gain and never leaves, while OW and W are the ones who suffer. I sometimes want to scream "wake up women, you are being used and being apart of another woman being used too!" but that's judgmental because I don't know if MM is really using the woman... it looks like that's what always happens in these cases and I know it happened in mine, but I don't know every single MM so I can't say. I guess that's what WhiteFlower's point is about not classifying "cheaters" because they may be cheating for different reasons.

 

I knew all along it isn't right to be with a MM but it happened to me. It was a crazy experience but all worth it now that he is divorced.

 

That's great! Are you two a public couple now? I'm so happy for you.

[Je Ne Regrette Rien]

Wow, what an ubelievably bad analogy. Sorry JeNe.

 

It makes the MM seem like he is totally helpless to groom and feed himself. A man doesn't need a woman to do that for him. Really, really bad analogy.

 

Lol, thanks NID, I'm always proud of my bad anaologies...

 

I just wanted to convey the many facets of an affair to BNB, in contrast to her analogy that you can't bury a living body. My MM was hungry - for affection, for love, for warmth, for acceptance of who he was, for conversation, for conviction, for understanding. I wasn't implying that OW actually groom and feed MM and then place them in front of the fire.

[NoIDidn't]

Lol, thanks NID, I'm always proud of my bad anaologies...

 

I just wanted to convey the many facets of an affair to BNB, in contrast to her analogy that you can't bury a living body. My MM was hungry - for affection, for love, for warmth, for acceptance of who he was, for conversation, for conviction, for understanding. I wasn't implying that OW actually groom and feed MM and then place them in front of the fire.

 

I understood exactly what you were trying to convey, but a dog is not capable of loving himself whereas a person is. I am sure you weren't implying that OW actually feed and groom the MM. But with that analogy, it did, in fact, seem that you were saying that there was no one to take care of the poor, little MM that wandered into a stranger's arms. That isn't what happens in an A either.

 

That's why I said it was a bad analogy. It didn't consider that a wandering dog is a very different from a wandering MM. A dog is looking for survival. Not so much with a MM.

 

That's all I was saying. I understood what you meant though.

[White Flower]

OH, WF, don't go on like this then! As much as you love this man, you deserve one who will stand beside you on that proverbial mountaintop and scream in unison WITH you to all who can hear! It's noble of you to not insist that he confront his W, but what about you? What about your needs; your "happily ever after?" It can happen, the "happily ever after." I truly believe that and refuse to believe otherwise. There is a man who can share that with you, but you'll never be free to find him if you continue with this MM.

You're absolutely right. That is why I already made the decision to end it.

[Lyssa]

Thank you very much for understanding. It was really hard for me to admit that my "romantic dream" was just a dillusion, and that the whole time (at least since I first realized he wasn't really getting a mutual divorce) I had been doing something wrong that I thought felt so right. It was admitting that I had used poor judgment and that I had been naive and selfish, and that the man who claimed to love me so much was actually just indecisive, weak, selfish, a liar, etc. Those were really hard things to admit but I feel much better now that I admitted them and moved on.

 

I do realize that not everyone feels this way. I realize that in some circumstances people know they are doing the wrong thing for the right reason (like it sounds like you're saying was your case) or people that think they're doing the right thing. I also know I was so unhappy while I was doing the wrong thing, and I realized that there was no "right" reason to be doing it because most of the time, MM has everything to gain and never leaves, while OW and W are the ones who suffer. I sometimes want to scream "wake up women, you are being used and being apart of another woman being used too!" but that's judgmental because I don't know if MM is really using the woman... it looks like that's what always happens in these cases and I know it happened in mine, but I don't know every single MM so I can't say. I guess that's what WhiteFlower's point is about not classifying "cheaters" because they may be cheating for different reasons.

 

 

 

That's great! Are you two a public couple now? I'm so happy for you.

 

If it was the other way around for me, I would have done the same thing. I don't think I could go on with it if he chose not to leave for whatever reasons. I didn't know his xW (except through some emails that were exchanged) but I felt slightly guilty for loving her xH. Then came the moment where I was told that they have been wanting to divorce a couple of times (from his xW herself), I thought to myself - I shouldn't feel guilty because they have been having problems in their M for quite some time and it wasn't my fault. I felt guilty for that short period of time because I thought he was lying about what went on in their M.

 

I believe that if you feel unhappy in a relationship, whatever type of a relationship be it with SG or MM, you should leave to pursue a much more fulfilling relationship. Of course I don't mean you should cheat but end the relationship and start anew but take it one step at a time. I don't think I was being used at all in my relationship. It was and still is a LDR. To say that he used me physically would not be true as we are miles apart. Hmmm... maybe he used me emotionally, which is fine by me cause that means I using him emotionally too.

 

Thank you, Nadia. I'm happy for me and him too. We are pretty much public now. Our family and friends know about us. His mother and sister knew for quite some time. No immediate future plans for both of us just yet. I still have my part-time studies to be completed. What's great is that he can fly in and out to see me any time from now on

[White Flower]

Lol, thanks NID, I'm always proud of my bad anaologies...

 

I just wanted to convey the many facets of an affair to BNB, in contrast to her analogy that you can't bury a living body. My MM was hungry - for affection, for love, for warmth, for acceptance of who he was, for conversation, for conviction, for understanding. I wasn't implying that OW actually groom and feed MM and then place them in front of the fire.

I actually liked the analogy because of the reasons you stated and I anticipated that's what you meant earlier. Like I've said all along, some "cheaters" actually have very good reasons. What if their wife is incapable of or unwilling to give them anything they need? That unwillingness can drive you to distraction.

 

I know for me, I have asked my H countless times to go to M counceling and he downright refuses. He cannot even have a simple discussion with me without blowing up. Walls everywhere. Helplessness. You just start looking away. That is where Prince Charming enters and begins to nurture you. Yes it's wrong, especially if he has no intention of giving you all of himself, but you take it because right now most of your needs are being met.

 

For me it is wrong because MM is not leaving W for me. I got caught up and now my head is much clearer. But for you JNRR, your MM is leaving W and staying with you because all his needs are being met with you and you are completely availabe to him. It is as practical and as beautiful as that. So it was a good analogy.