Am I the only Proud OW on here?

[sally4sara]

God is good, I look good, I feel good and my children are better and on their way to being great. All is right with the world. It's sad that it took him leaving for his eyes to open that sometimes the grass that appears greener on the other side is sometimes covering a septic tank.

 

And it seems sometimes you find out what made the grass look so green in the first place was what their spouse (that you previously had no regard for) was adding to their life. You took what she found so appealing with you on your way out. Good for you!

 

OP need to consider this when evaluating who her MM is and what qualities she find so desirable about him. How much of what makes him so nice is the result of his wife's efforts behind the scenes in his life? Could be she really IS his better half!

[GreenEyedLady]

Wow!

 

Does your MM have children? And if so, do they see this affair between you 2 as a beautiful thing?

 

And if they don't know...maybe you should ask them and see what they think?

 

Or maybe you don't care what they think...I'd say that is pretty much a given.

 

Why don't you just be happy that you're not with a woman who in your words was a horrible person? Why is it that you want to stay angry and hateful? Why can't you accept that you BOTH are better off without each other?

 

Some people just shouldn't have ever married...Why is that so hard for you to comprehend...And I'd never give you TMI...

 

But as for children in general, there's just a point where they will grow up and live their own lives and you will have years when they are gone...Is there some reason people should live miserably for the rest of their lives?

[Ladyjane14]

...We developed our plan and it's in place and it just takes time, on BOTH our parts...But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...

 

I'm sorry to say it, GEL... but statements like this just typify what it means to be a "proud" OW.

 

I know you won't say what "THE PLAN" entails, but I have to assume it means cheating this woman out of a few more weeks, months, or years of her life. If her husband had done the honorable thing before he cheated, how far down the path to healing would she be? And is it "pride" that keeps you from caring?

 

How can you be plotting with this guy and still manage to feel good enough about it that it's just NOTHING to you to refer to her future pain as "the light at the end of the tunnel"?

 

Nope... I don't understand this kind of "pride", and frankly... I'm glad I don't.

[GreenEyedLady]

GEL, may I ask why it takes time and what are your plans in short?

 

First, I want to thank you for your comments...You are really fair and reasonable...

 

And it takes time due to survival needs...Basics like housing and managing money issues...

 

Our plans involve the not-so-happy work that he has to do and dealing with geographical issues and relocation...I can't go into more details though...Right now anyways...

[RecordProducer]

How can you be plotting with this guy and still manage to feel good enough about it that it's just NOTHING to you to refer to her future pain as "the light at the end of the tunnel"?

I understand the selfishness of the light and the tunnel, yet I couldn't help but think: will he do this to me some day?

[GreenEyedLady]

I'm sorry to say it, GEL... but statements like this just typify what it means to be a "proud" OW.

 

I know you won't say what "THE PLAN" entails, but I have to assume it means cheating this woman out of a few more weeks, months, or years of her life. If her husband had done the honorable thing before he cheated, how far down the path to healing would she be? And is it "pride" that keeps you from caring?

 

How can you be plotting with this guy and still manage to feel good enough about it that it's just NOTHING to you to refer to her future pain as "the light at the end of the tunnel"?

 

Nope... I don't understand this kind of "pride", and frankly... I'm glad I don't.

 

LJ, I respect your opinion...

 

I wish he had done the same thing, got divorced first, but that's not what happened...

 

The plan is basically what any person who wants to divorce does in order to make the transition as smooth (bad word choice but there's nothing better) as possible for EVERYONE...Don't try and make it so sinister, it's simply dealing with all the components...

 

I don't see any use with trying to explain anything else...I feel bad that she's going to be hurt, but not that bad that it changes my course of action...I know that sounds awful, but that's the truth...I want her to find happiness with a man who will love her the way she deserves and is faithful to her...

 

So you can twist my words around to try and make your argument but in the end it doesn't change anything...People who are on either side of the fence already have their mind made up and nothing on you say or I say will change it...

 

So as for sterotyping OW as proud, if that's what you'd like to consider me so be it...I tire of the status quo here...There are women in my situation who don't hate themselves (hate the situation perhaps) and are tired that the only thing some people wish to hear is that the OW is a w****, hates herself, is nothing but a side piece etc...

 

If it makes you feel better to feel superior to me, then I can live with that...

[GreenEyedLady]

I understand the selfishness of the light and the tunnel, yet I couldn't help but think: will he do this to me some day?

 

Everyone has to ask themselves this question...In any R there is that risk of cheating, there's no guarantees...

[simplegirl]

 

So as for sterotyping OW as proud, if that's what you'd like to consider me so be it...I tire of the status quo here...There are women in my situation who don't hate themselves (hate the situation perhaps) and are tired that the only thing some people wish to hear is that the OW is a w****, hates herself, is nothing but a side piece etc...

 

 

Great way of putting it GEL!!!

[Gwyneth]

Several things...

 

First, I'd like to "thank" some of you for analyzing my feelings and what I mean, and well, my life. I think that's just sweet (sarcasm). I felt like I was reading a term paper on a novel rather than a forum. I get you guys are just trying to figure me out, but you are working your brains Way to hard--take it a down a notch, it's not That serious.

 

Second, I forget the poster's name, but she is right when she says I created a barrier around my relationship with the MM because yes, I have been hurt many times before and I will not let some MM hurt me.

 

On the other hand, though, I am not losing out on any oportunities of meeting Mr. Right. I alreayd told Mr. MM that if I meet someone and it's workable, then he and I are done with. He asked if I would keep him on the side, and I said absolutely Not! I will Not be a cheater. I am, though, Always on the lookout for a new guy. I don't go to bars or clubs or even parties to meet guys--that's just Not my style. I always was lucky enough to meet a guy in my every day places--ie. classes, work, public transportation, gym, etc. Please trust me when I say that I'm Not missing out on anything right now, and not waiting for Mr. MM to leave wifey for me.

[GreenEyedLady]

Life isn't a guarantee. But any involvement that begins with deceit as a basis, doesn't have a solid foundation to build on. I'm sorry, no disrespect intended, but I have a hard time calling an affair a relationship, I only see an involvement. My personal hang up I guess.

 

I wouldn't say it's your personal hang-up, just that if you've never experienced it, you don't know what it's like...

 

It's easy to make judgments when you've never been in the position...

[norajane]

The plan is basically what any person who wants to divorce does in order to make the transition as smooth (bad word choice but there's nothing better) as possible for EVERYONE...Don't try and make it so sinister, it's simply dealing with all the components...

 

I don't see any use with trying to explain anything else...I feel bad that she's going to be hurt, but not that bad that it changes my course of action...I know that sounds awful, but that's the truth...I want her to find happiness with a man who will love her the way she deserves and is faithful to her...

 

It's all this plotting and planning behind the wife's back that hurts a BS as much or more than the end of the marriage, as much or more than learning about an affair itself. That is the insult on top of the betrayal - knowing that cheating H is colluding with OW and hatching plans that manipulate the outcome of her own marriage, that control the wife's own life - all without her knowledge. Finding out that her fate is all neatly wrapped, signed, sealed and delivered without her having ANY input into her own life, as though she is merely there to be maneuvered into the right position for H's self-serving purposes.

 

You may not believe it's sinister, but she's not going to thank you or her H for drawing up your 'smooth' plans for her life. She ought to have the right to plan her own life, don't you think? Isn't that what you want, the right to plan your life? You're buying into the MM's sneaky, manipulative style, GEL. I hope he doesn't turn out to be so controlling with your life one day.

[Gwyneth]

An Affair is definitely a relationship. It might not be based on good reasons, but it's certainly a relationship. An affair exists between two lovers, while a one night stand is just that--a one night thing, or a fling. A man or woman engages in a relationship with the person they carry on an affair with, while they most usually do Not with a fling/one-night stand.

 

Hope this helps--and hey, it's my POV.

[Ladyjane14]

The plan is basically what any person who wants to divorce does in order to make the transition as smooth (bad word choice but there's nothing better) as possible for EVERYONE...Don't try and make it so sinister, it's simply dealing with all the components...

 

Be honest, GEL. He's choosing for EVERYONE. If his wife is in the dark, she's not able to make her own choices. She's been denied her right to do so.

 

I don't see any use with trying to explain anything else...I feel bad that she's going to be hurt, but not that bad that it changes my course of action...I know that sounds awful, but that's the truth...I want her to find happiness with a man who will love her the way she deserves and is faithful to her...

 

I'm not trying to put you on the spot or make this thread about you.

But damn, if your comments haven't pretty much proved that either the OW has "pride" in what she does or she really just doesn't understand the scope of it. There's just no way it can be otherwise when you're complicit in this guy's plan to put his wife 'out to pasture'. Because if you can face yourself in the mirror every day without your heart shriveling just a little bit, then either you stand in approval of your actions or you just don't know what they mean.

 

So you can twist my words around to try and make your argument but in the end it doesn't change anything...People who are on either side of the fence already have their mind made up and nothing on you say or I say will change it...

 

So as for sterotyping OW as proud, if that's what you'd like to consider me so be it...I tire of the status quo here...There are women in my situation who don't hate themselves (hate the situation perhaps) and are tired that the only thing some people wish to hear is that the OW is a w****, hates herself, is nothing but a side piece etc...

 

If it makes you feel better to feel superior to me, then I can live with that...

 

I don't need to twist your words. They're right there in black and white. But my hope is that I don't understand the meaning of them.

 

I stand in disbelief that you can be as educated on the effects of infidelity as you are... and not care. I have to believe that maybe you're just a little too close to it and maybe you can't see how ugly it is to "plan" the remainder of another person's life for them. Call me what you want. I prefer to think of it as optimism regarding the human condition, maybe even sticking my head firmly in the sand, but... I'd like to believe I'm wrong about you just now.

[GreenEyedLady]

You may not believe it's sinister, but she's not going to thank you or her H for drawing up your 'smooth' plans for her life. She ought to have the right to plan her own life, don't you think? Isn't that what you want, the right to plan your life? You're buying into the MM's sneaky, manipulative style, GEL. I hope he doesn't turn out to be so controlling with your life one day.

 

I'm not buying into anything...Especially all the crap that gets spouted here all day...

 

I'm not here to defend anything...I'm here to help others in this situation and talk to others who know what it's like...No one has to like me or what I say...And if you've never been divorced, you have no idea what goes into it...

 

Why would her plan for her life supercede's her H's plan for his? At one point in time they were similar, now they're not...Why should her plan as status quo be the default? When you're not happy in M you get out...No one just decides in one day and leaves...It takes awhile...

 

Sorry, can't be the OW who hates herself, says bad things about her MM after they break up, says she feels used...Not me...I love my partner and we have a good R...If you don't like to hear that, then that's your perogative...

 

Divorce isn't fun or happy or something to aspire to, but it happens...People grow apart, want different things, aren't compatible...If both have a chance at happiness, apart, why not? Why should two people who are miserable together, spend the rest of their lives like that? Answer that one?!

 

That's it, I'm done...It's not my thread, it's Gwenyths...I didn't ask for advice, nor do I need it...I don't have to defend or justify or explain...It is what it is...

[nadiaj2727]

Wow, I am liking this thread that started out being about an OW who was "proud" to be an OW. I really like the points that the people who aren't OWs or aren't "proud" to be OWs are making, b/c it reminds me why I'm most definitely proud to NOT be an OW anymore.

 

NoraJane:

You're buying into the MM's sneaky, manipulative style. I hope he doesn't turn out to be so controlling with your life one day.

 

That is so true. My xMM was very sneaky and manipulative, and I started to notice he was doing it to me. I was like... wow, imagine what he's doing to his wife, as he was able to pull the wool over her eyes for 8 months (at least about having an A... who knows what else). I did NOT want to be his next "victim", nor did I like taking part in his double life/ sneaky cover-ups anymore. I am so proud to say "This is my life, world, see it as it is," now, instead of hiding part of myself from most people and only letting HIM know the real truth about what was going on in my life... how much power did that give him?!?! It started to feel like he was not only in control of them getting a D (and wasn't acting on it) but he was also in control of my own life and decisions in the meantime. It felt so good to take that control/ power back for myself, away from him.

 

(GEL, I'm not implying that YOUR MM is sneaky/ manipulative, I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. One common assertion on this thread that I've seen to be true in my own situation is that MM tend to be sneaky/ manipulative (I don't know if that's what happens when someone has an A, or if that's the type of person who HAS an A, but it seems to be very common), but I'm not saying that EVERY MM is like that or that yours is. I agree with NJ that it's something to think about, though... if he isn't telling her the whole story, it's b/c he's trying in some way to protect his own butt and spin the story in a way that makes him look like a good guy. Who's to say he's not this type of person in general and he won't do that same to you if it benefits him one day? Just something to think about, not trying to be on the offensive.)

 

LadyJane--

Because if you can face yourself in the mirror every day without your heart shriveling just a little bit, then either you stand in approval of your actions or you just don't know what they mean.

This also rings so true to me. I found that unless I was with MM, I felt so horribly about myself and my decisions. I definitely couldn't "look myself in the mirror" (or even wake up feeling happy) with what I was doing. After awhile, I felt that way even when I WAS with him, and I started to see through the sweet words he was telling me into the truth of his character. I could not do it any more, and that, quite simply, is why I left. (There were other reasons, but the main one is that I wanted to grow some character and integrity, and he was standing in my way of doing that.)

[Curmudgeon]

From what I've read and observed over the years, both here, on other sites and in RL, rarely does the MM leave his marriage of his own volition. If he's still in it today there's a reason for that, just as there was yesterday and however many days before he's been having an affair.

 

Why should he turn his personal life upside-down when he's getting both the family and the security and comfort that betokens as well as the OW for the fun on the side? They all seem to talk a good line but as most of us know, talk is cheap.

 

It's all rather reminiscent of the old radio show (1946-1951), The Bickersons. Blanche (Frances Langford) is always saying to John (Don Ameche) regarding getting an operation to stop his snoring, "You say it but you won't do it. If you really meant it you'd do it tonight. Prove it to me. Do it NOW John."

[nadiaj2727]

GreenEyedLady--

No one just decides [to get divorced] in one day and leaves...It takes awhile...

 

I disagree with that. The people men know who actually got divorced (granted, I only know 3 in real life and have talked to a bunch online)

said that that was exactly the way they did it. When they knew they no longer wanted to be in that bad R, they left it, by leaving the house, filing for the D and sorting out the mess later. All they knew is that they wanted out badly enough to do it.

 

One of my friends was divorced 14 days after filing (we don't have a waiting period in my state) and said: "If you want divorced badly enough, you get divorced. You don't let anything stand in your way. Just like anything else in life."

 

To me, it seems to be the MM who are having affairs that take so long to get divorced, who drag their feet and give excuses for why they can't do it right away. I don't know if it's b/c they don't really know what they want, they like having their cake and eating it too, they want it but they're too weak to just do it, they don't want it but they're lying about wanting it, who knows... all I know is that to me, excuses are just that, excuses, and ALL of them are bad, if a MM is giving an excuse for not getting a D and at the same time saying he "really" wants it. There will always be an excuse to NOT get divorced, but there should be a bigger reason TO get divorced, if the MM is serious about it. Just my two cents.

[Gwyneth]

I agree that it takes a while to finally come to the point where you go for the divorce. It's not as easy as breaking up with a BF/GF--breaking a mariage involves more than just love--we're talking money here. And to most people, money is a really important factor when choosing the OP to the wife, and will sometimes just stay in the marriage because they don't want to lose out on any money. Selfish? Yes, but that's just the way it is.

[norajane]

Why would her plan for her life supercede's her H's plan for his? At one point in time they were similar, now they're not...Why should her plan as status quo be the default? When you're not happy in M you get out...No one just decides in one day and leaves...It takes awhile...

 

Divorce isn't fun or happy or something to aspire to, but it happens...People grow apart, want different things, aren't compatible...If both have a chance at happiness, apart, why not? Why should two people who are miserable together, spend the rest of their lives like that? Answer that one?!

 

Oh, I'm not saying they should stay married! Absolutely not! I am not at all opposed to divorce, especially when a spouse is cheating.

 

But if he's made that decision, he ought to be sharing that and discussing his plans that with his wife - not just with you - and he should be doing that now so she also has an opportunity to make plans for her life.

[Ladyjane14]

I found that unless I was with MM, I felt so horribly about myself and my decisions. I definitely couldn't "look myself in the mirror" (or even wake up feeling happy) with what I was doing. After awhile, I felt that way even when I WAS with him, and I started to see through the sweet words he was telling me into the truth of his character. I could not do it any more, and that, quite simply, is why I left. (There were other reasons, but the main one is that I wanted to grow some character and integrity, and he was standing in my way of doing that.)

 

Exactly. This is the crux of the matter. It's all about what's going on INSIDE of you. Sometimes that's just as true of the MM/MW, and they're honestly confused or acting out. But regardless of the reasons why they do what they do... the OM/OW is a separate entity, one who needs to see to their own soul or their own self-respect or whatever they refer to as the core of their personality.

 

It's just a mistake to let someone else change you this way, to let them make you into something that you're not. You can't twist your own values like a pretzel in the attempt to make your actions palatable if at your heart they're not.

 

People believe what they believe. If you think it's wrong to steal candy from the store when you're 12, chances are you'll still believe the same when your 92. To live outside one's own core values can only result in internal strife.

 

You just have to be true to your self.

[GreenEyedLady]

Oh, I'm not saying they should stay married! Absolutely not! I am not at all opposed to divorce, especially when a spouse is cheating.

 

But if he's made that decision, he ought to be sharing that and discussing his plans that with his wife - not just with you - and he should be doing that now so she also has an opportunity to make plans for her life.

 

That's the next step...Besides, she already knows he's not happy...It's not like it's going to blind side her...It's been a long time now NJ...

[GreenEyedLady]

GreenEyedLady--

No one just decides [to get divorced] in one day and leaves...It takes awhile...

 

I disagree with that. The people men know who actually got divorced (granted, I only know 3 in real life and have talked to a bunch online)

said that that was exactly the way they did it. When they knew they no longer wanted to be in that bad R, they left it, by leaving the house, filing for the D and sorting out the mess later. All they knew is that they wanted out badly enough to do it.

 

I know all about divorce, because I am divorced...And I had to make my plan and it took 2 years, to leave...Not even file, just leave...I had to make sure I could support my kids on my own, be stable, have a secure job, have a place to live etc...

 

Anyone who doesn't have that done is just irresponsible...It does take a long time, I've done it...Although we're not talking that kind of time anyway...

 

So spare me the lecture on how long it takes, I've BTDT...

 

And you know when they're serious...

[nadiaj2727]

[GEL] Well I certainly wasn't trying to lecture you, I was just saying how it seemed from my point of view and from the point of view of the divorced men to whom I've talked.

[GreenEyedLady]

(GEL, I'm not implying that YOUR MM is sneaky/ manipulative, I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. One common assertion on this thread that I've seen to be true in my own situation is that MM tend to be sneaky/ manipulative (I don't know if that's what happens when someone has an A, or if that's the type of person who HAS an A, but it seems to be very common), but I'm not saying that EVERY MM is like that or that yours is. I agree with NJ that it's something to think about, though... if he isn't telling her the whole story, it's b/c he's trying in some way to protect his own butt and spin the story in a way that makes him look like a good guy. Who's to say he's not this type of person in general and he won't do that same to you if it benefits him one day? Just something to think about, not trying to be on the offensive.)

 

I think it was you that I said on another thread to ask yourself why you loved your MM and if you really want to share your life with him...

 

Guess what? I asked those questions because I've asked myself and as you can see, I already came up with the answers...

 

My R is solid...There's no doubt that I have in my love for him or his love for me...We trust each other and we will make it through...We are best friends and lovers...I wish we had started out differently but we didn't...So now we have to leave the past in the past and deal with the present and the repercussions (SP?) and move forward to the future...

[GreenEyedLady]

Be honest, GEL. He's choosing for EVERYONE. If his wife is in the dark, she's not able to make her own choices. She's been denied her right to do so.

 

I'm not trying to put you on the spot or make this thread about you.

But damn, if your comments haven't pretty much proved that either the OW has "pride" in what she does or she really just doesn't understand the scope of it. There's just no way it can be otherwise when you're complicit in this guy's plan to put his wife 'out to pasture'. Because if you can face yourself in the mirror every day without your heart shriveling just a little bit, then either you stand in approval of your actions or you just don't know what they mean.

 

I don't need to twist your words. They're right there in black and white. But my hope is that I don't understand the meaning of them.

 

I stand in disbelief that you can be as educated on the effects of infidelity as you are... and not care. I have to believe that maybe you're just a little too close to it and maybe you can't see how ugly it is to "plan" the remainder of another person's life for them. Call me what you want. I prefer to think of it as optimism regarding the human condition, maybe even sticking my head firmly in the sand, but... I'd like to believe I'm wrong about you just now.

 

 

I really think you're giving me too much power LJ...I'm not planning the remainder of someone else's life, except my own...You seem to think that she has no idea of what is wrong in her M...And instead of choosing to work on it or try and fix it, she chooses to do nothing but watch it slip away...

 

I do feel badly that my happiness is at someone else's expense...Really I do...And there's nothing I can say to make it different, because I won't end my R so that she can keep hers, for a little while longer...There M is over and it has been for a long time...Neither of them are happy...So he's trying to do what is best for him and her...She deserves to be happy and have someone love her and be devoted to her...I wish I wasn't in this position...

 

I used the word plan, because that's what I considered it when I left...I decided what I needed to do and did it so I could be free of my M...Now I don't know what he would call it, but it's the decisions that he makes to end it...And of course it's flexible, because who knows what she wants too? You don't think what she wants gets considered? Please, give him more credit than that...And of course there's the legal system...

 

And I can't believe how you like to pick and choose and twist what I say...She's not a cow, she's not being put out to pasture! My lord, why do you even project that image on a woman? Did you ever think that maybe she'd be happy to get out? You project your M on other people's...Every other M is not like yours...Some are and some aren't...

 

I think that you're too close to it, too...You advise save the marriage at all costs, even though you yourself said that you would never have taken your H back had he been physical with the OW...

 

Not everyone should have married...People make mistakes...He's trying not to cause any more hurt...He's trying to be happy...He wants her to be happy, too...It's just that they can't be happy together anymore and I had nothing to do with that...I was merely a sympton, not the cause...

 

And I'm sick of defending us when I didn't want any advice...I merely answered a post...So if you feel like a better person than me and find me inhuman and morally deficient, you're entitled to your opinion...But I beg to differ...