Author Gwyneth Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 All right. Show us how powerful you are over your own life and actually quit responding to posts like you keep saying you're going to do. If what these people say means nothing to you, prove it and just let it go... let it go... let it go.......... I've been trying to, but some personal issues are being discussed, like my abortion and my father's ex wife who abused me, and I feel the need to defend myself over these two things. Maybe Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 TomCat-- Show me one person who does not listen to what they want to hear? Me! I'll show you myself. I came here as an OW trying to figure out what to do about an affair and people told me to take the hard way -- get out of the affair -- rather than the easy way -- stay in it and suffer and hope. Some people did tell me what I wanted to hear -- that if I really love my MM I should wait around for him and be patient. while he worked out his messy divorce issues. But it sounded untrue, not smart, and "fairy-land"ish based on the wiser and more realistic-sounding advice I was hearing, so I did not listen to it, even though I wanted it to be the case. So I have showed you one person (me) who did not listen to waht I desperately wanted to hear. Looking back, that was the path to me growing up and getting out of a horrible situation. I really thank the people on this forum because of that. But if I would have just said "Can you please just tell me what I want to hear or otherwise I'm going to say I'm right all the time," I never would have gotten there. I had to listen, evaluate, and take my own wisdom from the different advice given to me. That is all I am asking Gwenyth to do... she certainly doesn't have to blindly accept my or anyone else's advice. And I never said she should automatically accept advice that's given to her. I've just asked her to think about it and not automatically be so defensive. Ok well that's good, I respect that I said give me one person and you did just that. Sometimes we think we want to hear something and we really want to hear something else. Maybe you did hear what you wanted to hear too .A rule of thumb I tend to look at when given and offering advice is that it doesn't matter how much a person rejects one's words because the point of giving advice is not to change someone's life but to offer help. Sometimes a person just needs to hear options even if they reject it all, and through those options they secretly decide what is best for them and that helps. I think it's futile to get mad at someone who knocks down all the ideas, they may knock them down on paper but the reality is they may very well be applying things they pick up along the way. I guess thr best way not to get frustrated is, if you give advice consider it a service to someone else not to yourself. I you give advice expecting to feel rewarded for it, you will get frustrated when someone does not take what you say on board. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Yeah, I just stopped reading your posts altogether. Ok, I lied, but I COULD if I wanted to... :laugh: you are not the first or the last, in fact I expect that! Link to post Share on other sites
JadeStar Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 You do not know me, so how can you say that I live in a dreamland? You're right. Others do not know you, but they know of what ever it is you speak here, that's what most people have to go on in forums like this. You say others do not know you, which means you do not know them, but yet you have made assumptions on others, just as others might have you. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 :laugh: you are not the first or the last, in fact I expect that! No, I was taking your point one step further. I agree with you:D Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 Ok well that's good, I respect that I said give me one person and you did just that. Sometimes we think we want to hear something and we really want to hear something else. Maybe you did hear what you wanted to hear too .A rule of thumb I tend to look at when given and offering advice is that it doesn't matter how much a person rejects one's words because the point of giving advice is not to change someone's life but to offer help. Sometimes a person just needs to hear options even if they reject it all, and through those options they secretly decide what is best for them and that helps. I think it's futile to get mad at someone who knocks down all the ideas, they may knock them down on paper but the reality is they may very well be applying things they pick up along the way. I guess thr best way not to get frustrated is, if you give advice consider it a service to someone else not to yourself. I you give advice expecting to feel rewarded for it, you will get frustrated when someone does not take what you say on board. I agree with this. Even though it may appear that I do not agree with what people say, or maybe someone else like Gel doesn't agree, it doesn't mean that we aren't thinking about what is being advised, or won't come back to you for this advice when it may be needed. Feel special for giving it, but don't expect the retriever to accept it. I think with that said, it will help every one to understand why I am not accepting some of your advice--I'm not ready for it. I aprpeciate it--I do (expcet when you come down really hard on me) and I'm sure it will be useful, or I can pass it on to soemoen else who is having an affair, but right now I am not ready to use it. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 TomCat-- A rule of thumb I tend to look at when given and offering advice is that it doesn't matter how much a person rejects one's words because the point of giving advice is not to change someone's life but to offer help. Thanks TomCat, those are some really good points. I was just trying to help, until I was called names and told I deserve to be punched. Now I think it's just ridiculous and the last thing I think she needs is *my* help. So I will stick around and offer help to people who ask, until they threaten violence, at which point, they are beyond the point of help, and should be taking their aggression out somewhere else besides online forums. I mean, what's the point of trying to offer help to someone like that?! I really appreciate your post, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 You do not know me, so how can you say that I live in a dreamland? You're right. Others do not know you, but they know of what ever it is you speak here, that's what most people have to go on in forums like this. You say others do not know you, which means you do not know them, but yet you have made assumptions on others, just as others might have you. Right, but for example, I think Nadia misunderstood my whole biological father thing. I wasn't saying at all what she thought I was saying. SHe is making it seem like adopted children and orphans aren't loved, or at least that is what i think she is saying I am saying. But not at all--I'm just saying a stepparent isn't obligated to their spouse's child. An adopted parent or foster child is Very much obligated to the child they adopt or take in as a foster child. It's different. I nkow that because i have both two parents and step parents. I see the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If you were standing in front of me, I would have punched you by now. YOu are really ignorant, to say the least. I hope that the mods close this thread based on this physical threat right here. Its gone way past being over heated. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 TomCat-- A rule of thumb I tend to look at when given and offering advice is that it doesn't matter how much a person rejects one's words because the point of giving advice is not to change someone's life but to offer help. Thanks TomCat, those are some really good points. I was just trying to help, until I was called names and told I deserve to be punched. Now I think it's just ridiculous and the last thing I think she needs is *my* help. So I will stick around and offer help to people who ask, until they threaten violence, at which point, they are beyond the point of help, and should be taking their aggression out somewhere else besides online forums. I mean, what's the point of trying to offer help to someone like that?! I really appreciate your post, thanks. Somebody told you you deserve to be punched??? LOL, what kind of advice are you giving out? Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A step parent is obligated to the step child. By marrying its mother/ father and accepting the child into the family home, it has agreed to be responsible for its upbringing. A step child has the same needs -- to be nurtured and loved, provided food and clothing and sheltered, and a stable family life (ideally free from adultery) -- as any other child. Any child in a family home -- be it natural, adopted, or step -- deserves a happy and stable upbringing, there are no distinctions. In fact I would argue that an older step child or adopted child who has already suffered from being in one broken home or family unit that didn't work out should be protected with extra special care to make sure the same mistakes aren't made all over again and he isn't left feeling like every family or home life around him just completely crumbles. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 No, I was taking your point one step further. I agree with you:D I know you were that's why I put all the laughing faces and it was a good point on your part, it made me laugh. Sorry Nadja I didn't realise that there had been agression at some points, I didn't read all the thread. I know these threads tend to get really heated at times and it is very hard to keep your cool when you feel people attack you and really don't get you, I can see that happening to both sides. On the side of Gwyneth I can also see that sometimes she may disagree out of spite and out the way in which advice is offered to her. The message might be a great one and one to be reckoned with if only the way in which the message was present was better. But when things get hostile neither the message nor the receptor ear is on its best. Someone who is on the fence about an issue with me more inclined to swing fruther to the oposite side of the side a person is pressuring them to be on. Case in point think with that said, it will help every one to understand why I am not accepting some of your advice--I'm not ready for it. I aprpeciate it--I do (expcet when you come down really hard on me) and I'm sure it will be useful, or I can pass it on to soemoen else who is having an affair, but right now I am not ready to use it. this is what it boils down to. A person wants to be heard, and wants helping words and even wants to hear different solutions, what you don't want is to be bullied into making a decision you are not ready to make. A concept that seems to escape many, which is that people don't make people do things, we don't have that power over others, we make ourselves do things. If that could be remembered in a LOT of the issues discussed in this forum half the animosity would stay at bay...I think at least... Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Virgo-- Somebody told you you deserve to be punched??? LOL, what kind of advice are you giving out? Ha ha, thanks for making me laugh. I'm obviously giving out very violence-inciting advice! Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Virgo-- Somebody told you you deserve to be punched??? LOL, what kind of advice are you giving out? Ha ha, thanks for making me laugh. I'm obviously giving out very violence-inciting advice! I know, I crack myself up at times. Picture me saying that statement with a "Giiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrllllllll," in the front of it. Anyway, why does Nadiaj deserve to be punched? I haven't seen her be disrespectful-unless I missed something... Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I said that saying a step child is "less valuable" (Gwenyth's words, certainly not mine!) than a biological child is a really messed up way of thinking, and for that I am an ignorant, skin-crawling-causing person who deserved to be punched in real life (if possible... whew, I'm glad that it wasn't possible because I am not a violent person, I only fight with words lol). "If you were standing in front of me, I would have punched you by now. YOu are really ignorant, to say the least. By far the most ignorant on this board that I have encountered. YOu make my skin crawl." (Gwenyth) Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I know you were that's why I put all the laughing faces and it was a good point on your part, it made me laugh. Sorry Nadja I didn't realise that there had been agression at some points, I didn't read all the thread. I know these threads tend to get really heated at times and it is very hard to keep your cool when you feel people attack you and really don't get you, I can see that happening to both sides. On the side of Gwyneth I can also see that sometimes she may disagree out of spite and out the way in which advice is offered to her. The message might be a great one and one to be reckoned with if only the way in which the message was present was better. But when things get hostile neither the message nor the receptor ear is on its best. Someone who is on the fence about an issue with me more inclined to swing fruther to the oposite side of the side a person is pressuring them to be on. Case in point this is what it boils down to. A person wants to be heard, and wants helping words and even wants to hear different solutions, what you don't want is to be bullied into making a decision you are not ready to make. A concept that seems to escape many, which is that people don't make people do things, we don't have that power over others, we make ourselves do things. If that could be remembered in a LOT of the issues discussed in this forum half the animosity would stay at bay...I think at least... Can somebody please get TomCat a book deal? This is a part of the problem with many relationships-M or any other. People are always trying to win arguments instead of coming to an agreement. You need to be able to communicate effectively and have an open mind to stand in the other person's shoes. Even if you're right, you do draw more bees with honey. When you're wrong, that's your life to live;) Yes, all you create is animosity when you argue. Nothing much has changed after the argument-you're just a little more angry than you were before it began. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The bottom line is, he's a big boy and can make big boy decisions all on his own. It's his family--I cannot tell him what to or not to do. yes, I am part of his choices, but as I have said, if he doesn't care about his family or his marriage, why should I? LMFAO....why? Because that would make you no better than him. Really, if he doesn't give a shiit about his family...why the hell would you want him? What kind of woman likes a man that shiits on his family like this? Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I said that saying a step child is "less valuable" (Gwenyth's words, certainly not mine!) than a biological child is a really messed up way of thinking, and for that I am an ignorant, skin-crawling-causing person who deserved to be punched in real life (if possible... whew, I'm glad that it wasn't possible because I am not a violent person, I only fight with words lol). "If you were standing in front of me, I would have punched you by now. YOu are really ignorant, to say the least. By far the most ignorant on this board that I have encountered. YOu make my skin crawl." (Gwenyth) Obviously, Gwenyth has been through a lot in her life. I understand where she's coming from. That is why she attacks. I don't think a step-child is less valuable, but I think there is a different dynamic in those relationships. I don't let people run over top of me, but I often consider the past when dealing with the present. Gwenyth is human just like the rest of us. So is Nadia. When Gwenyth is ready, she'll make her move. Then, she'll understand you. However, it's hard for you to understand her because you haven't been where she's been. Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 LMFAO....why? Because that would make you no better than him. Really, if he doesn't give a shiit about his family...why the hell would you want him? What kind of woman likes a man that shiits on his family like this? BINGO! I do not get that way of thinking either. Sometimes people will play up there MM like they are just the best thing since peanut butter, when infact they are crapping on their family, what is so wonderful about that? Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 BINGO! I do not get that way of thinking either. Sometimes people will play up there MM like they are just the best thing since peanut butter, when infact they are crapping on their family, what is so wonderful about that? I agree. Emotions have a way of pushing logic to the side. I don't understand why everyone says they are such slime, but the victim should stay with him. He can't be any good to anyone (including himself). Can he? Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's nice of you to be so understanding Virgo but I have no respect/ understanding for someone who says they would have punched me (while all the while calling *me* ignorant -- I'm sorry but only ignorant people punch other people). To me that person has no decency whatsoever, so why even try to understand someone like that? A lot of people have hard upbringings and have "been through a lot in life", it doesn't give them an excuse to threaten violence on other people or to disregard how their actions are affecting other people. My dad had *11* brothers and sisters and his mom was married 3 times, and one of his step-fathers abused him and molested his step-sister. Do you know where he is today? Not cheating on his wife and saying that he doesn't "give a hoot" about his family. He is not repeating his parents' mistakes but instead is a good man who has made the right choices for himself and his family. He has been married for 28 years and has never had an affair, and he takes very good care of his 5 children, including me. Therefore I don't sympathesize much with "woe is me" stories... you can make something good out of your life or something bad out of your life, and if someone who is honestly trying to help you see the light and start living in a good way, and you say you would punch that person, then you are just not decent, you just don't *want* to have a good life. That is just how I see it. *shrug* I take responsibility for my actions. I've made some big mistakes and I've been selfish. But I've never told someone who gave me well-meaning advice that they are ignorant just because their view wasn't in line with mine, and that I would punch them. That takes a *lot* of selfishness and refusal to care about anyone's opinion besides your own... which was my point all along. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 It's nice of you to be so understanding Virgo but I have no respect/ understanding for someone who says they would have punched me (while all the while calling *me* ignorant -- I'm sorry but only ignorant people punch other people). To me that person has no decency whatsoever, so why even try to understand someone like that? A lot of people have hard upbringings and have "been through a lot in life", it doesn't give them an excuse to threaten violence on other people or to disregard how their actions are affecting other people. My dad had *11* brothers and sisters and his mom was married 3 times, and one of his step-fathers abused him and molested his step-sister. Do you know where he is today? Not cheating on his wife and saying that he doesn't "give a hoot" about his family. He is not repeating his parents' mistakes but instead is a good man who has made the right choices for himself and his family. He has been married for 28 years and has never had an affair, and he takes very good care of his 5 children, including me. Therefore I don't sympathesize much with "woe is me" stories... you can make something good out of your life or something bad out of your life, and if someone who is honestly trying to help you see the light and start living in a good way, and you say you would punch that person, then you are just not decent, you just don't *want* to have a good life. That is just how I see it. *shrug* I take responsibility for my actions. I've made some big mistakes and I've been selfish. But I've never told someone who gave me well-meaning advice that they are ignorant just because their view wasn't in line with mine, and that I would punch them. That takes a *lot* of selfishness and refusal to care about anyone's opinion besides your own... which was my point all along. Yes, but before you ended your affair, there was someone who didn't want to understand you. That's all I'm saying. Some people are stronger than others. Some people endure the same obstacles and decide they'll be nothing like something -the others become that something. She might get to where you are, but it might take some time. I'm not excusing what she did. I only try to understand where people are coming from, which I think helps a lot. You have people who will say OW are insecure and then tear them to shreds. I'm not saying they should tell them it's okay, but c'mon. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Any time we believe that we have it all together or think that we are totally in control of something is an indication that we are not operating with a full deck - thus irrational. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 I meant the responsibilities and obligations of a stepparent are not the same as a parent. Well this is in my case and my friends' cases. Nadia, I didn't mean to "threaten" harm at you, but you keep beating things into me and I keep asking you to stop--You seem to want to be heard. You also said some things about my character I nontheless didn't appreciate. I also got the impression you misunderstood what I was saying about biological children and adopted/foster children. I never even mentioned adopted/foster children, yet you felt the need to make it look like I was saying those horrible things. I know a kid is a kid, but I'm not talking about the kid, I'm talking about responsibilites toward the child. Not the child itself. I just don't think you understand me. I kindly asked you a few times to please leave me alone and let it go, but you just kept going and going, and it reached a point where yeah, if you were standing in front of me, it would have been one nasty cat fight. I hardly call that a threat, but make it what you want. Maybe you're looking for the pity card. Pay attention to Virgo's advice--this person clearly gets the situation you don't seem to get (and that many others don't get either). Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I don't like the obvious disconnect about this man's step child either. It will prove her undoing because regardless of what he has said to her, he will form an opinion of her that is less than what she will want to hear. I have had three step mothers. The second and third ones, I am still close to. Obviously I wasn't abused by them, but they aren't blood and according to Gwyneth's logic, they shouldn't care for me and I shouldn't respect them because they aren't biological. But they are adults and my elders who were trusted by my mother and father to care for me when I was in their presence. That stepson is a child. And that stepdad is responsible to him as if he were his own. I guess Gwyneth wants to be treated like his stepson one day, since she's not bio relation either. The rationalizations are getting more and more feeble and transparent. Link to post Share on other sites
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