Am I the only Proud OW on here?

[Gwyneth]

You keep saying you're strong, but then you say you don't know what you'd do if he 'showed up naked' meaning you are susceptible to persuasion to have sex.

 

I was being totally sarcastic when I said this. Sorry to have mislead you.

 

It takes a Lot for me to be persuaded to have sex. I also think it's okay for a woman to have sex like a man, to treat men like men treat women, etc. Have you guys ever seen Sex and the City, or read "be honest, you're not that into him either?" This book is knockoff of "He's just not that into you," except this book basically says "Hey girls! It's okay if we, as women, act like men--have sex for the thrill of it!"

[OWoman]

This is what I do not understand. I too am able to "compartmentalize," yet I keep being told "You're gonna get hurt! You're gonna fall in love and get hurt!!!" Why is that? Because it's been seen around here so many times, correct? Yet I keep saying I'm strong and stick to my guts about how I should feel and what I should do.

 

Gwyn,

 

compartmentalising is something I also used to do very successfully. I've never been hurt in a R or an A. With current MM things are different and of course there is the possibility of hurt. But... I'm a big girl, and I accept that. It's part of the risk of any involvement with any person - friend, family, lover.

 

It sounds like you have your eyes open on what you're getting into. Yes, you might get sucked in deeper than you want, but then you'll just have to deal with it - like you've done before.

 

There are some posters who are very bitter, yes. There are also some who are hurt and who are warning you out of compassion. If their advice doesn't resonate, don't take it. You know you best, and your situation.

 

Perhaps some of the advice will turn out, down the track, to be really good advice, but you'll only know that when the time comes. Be true to yourself.

[White Flower]

Gwyn,

 

compartmentalising is something I also used to do very successfully. I've never been hurt in a R or an A. With current MM things are different and of course there is the possibility of hurt. But... I'm a big girl, and I accept that. It's part of the risk of any involvement with any person - friend, family, lover.

 

It sounds like you have your eyes open on what you're getting into. Yes, you might get sucked in deeper than you want, but then you'll just have to deal with it - like you've done before.

 

There are some posters who are very bitter, yes. There are also some who are hurt and who are warning you out of compassion. If their advice doesn't resonate, don't take it. You know you best, and your situation.

 

Perhaps some of the advice will turn out, down the track, to be really good advice, but you'll only know that when the time comes. Be true to yourself.

 

This is excellent advice. Gwyneth, we all offer that which we are experienced with. Lizzie60 might say to take it as it comes and I might warn you about the possible pain and Ladyjane14 might condemn you to hell;) (j/k), but we all post here because we care. In the end Owoman is right in saying that you should be true to yourself. We all have our own path to follow and our own lessons to learn.

[american-woman]

Actually, Gwyneth is the one using HIM while not giving him pussy. C'mon, you must admit she has the self-control that women rarely possess, whatever her reason. He is NOT eating his cake, because she is not letting him.

 

Gwyneth is starting to sound more and more mature to me. She is stubborn, cold-headed, and introvert. I am actually more concerned about her fear of getting hurt than about her getting hurt in the future. Once in a while, we must experience pain in order to live and learn. She will be fine.

 

I think it's time we leave her alone. We said what we had to say about her affair and she heard it. Insulting her is not the right method of persuasion. After all, her life is none of our business. She posted, we replied; let's get over it now.

She stated she was having an affair with this MM not an emotional affair. Leave her alone? Did she expect to come here and post and not get hit with some 2x4`s? In order for her to end this affair NO CONTACT needs to be inabled. She needs to educate herself on why affairs are started and to learn about emotional needs and she needs to set bounderies for herself. She also needs to do research on the effect on affairs and how they DO impact familes.

[GreenEyedLady]

She stated she was having an affair with this MM not an emotional affair. Leave her alone? Did she expect to come here and post and not get hit with some 2x4`s? In order for her to end this affair NO CONTACT needs to be inabled. She needs to educate herself on why affairs are started and to learn about emotional needs and she needs to set bounderies for herself. She also needs to do research on the effect on affairs and how they DO impact familes.

 

She is having an EA, no physical contact...

 

This is the OW/OM forum, so that's what the passer-by would probably think, right?

 

She doesn't want to end the A, or haven't you got that yet?

[nadiaj2727]

There are many of us that can say...been there done that. Got the T-shirt.

 

Some can learn from others mistakes.

 

Gwenyth,

Like others here I was an OW. I think that was a mistake personally and as a woman. As women we need to have more respect for each other. As someone said (I believe it was bentnotbroken), if there were no women willing to have sex with married men, there would be no heartbroken wives. I am also 26 and I felt very young and inexperienced and naive the whole time I was trying to figure out my A (which I didn't even realize was an A... I honestly thought he was separated and he & his W were mutually divorcing and then we would be able to have a "normal" R instead of one in secret... didn't happen of course). At first I felt very guilty and beat myself up about it and really wanted to apologize to his W (who didn't/ doesn't know about me... and I didn't want to do it to get revenge or so he'd stay with me, as *I* left the A... I guess I just wanted to do it assauge my sense of guilt). But now I realize, I made a huge mistake, and I learned from it, and I will never ever date/ sleep with a married man again, for a variety of reasons, one of which is, I have more respect for other women than that.

 

I think that is why people are saying you sound arrogant and selfish. You are only thinking of yourself. If that is the kind of person you want to be, I guess I should stop giving you advice. Because I have a different belief now, which is that it is impossible for me to be happy if I'm doing something purposefully (no matter my reasons/ feelings) to contribute to someone else's unhappiness.

 

I grew up, Gwenyth. By that I mean I examined what I was really doing and why, and I realized I was not being the type of person I want to be. So I changed, regardless of the "feelings" I had for my xMM. Feelings aren't what matters, I realized... integrity is doing what is right even if your "feelings" (which are fickle and uncontrollable, anyway... so why not listen to something more controllable and dependable?) want to lead you in another direction.

 

Therefore, I'm not going to preach to you or judge you because I was *kind* of in your shoes at one time. I'm just trying to say that the reason most people hear probably think you're sounding selfish and immature is because a mature person thinks about the effects of her actions and doesn't just "give in" to her momentary feelings of self-satisfaction or whatever it is you're getting out of this A. These feelings are temporary. Think about your future Gwenyth. When do you want to start being a person of character and substance? So that's it, I sure didn't come here to preach to you, but since you posted and you claim to be wanting advice, that's my advice for you. Just stop and think about your actions on your own, without the help of a cheating MM.

 

And as far as your question of whether or not a person can control "falling in love"? Yes, they can... this is definitely something I learned through my experience. In fact it's quite easy because what you're feeling right now is NOT love. It is infatuation, which is more like an obsession or a past-time. Infatuation is jealous, possessive, confused, insecure, it hates to be alone, it is very dramatic, and a lot of other negative things... the only "good" thing about it is that it makes you feel temporarily "happy" and addicted, like a drug. Love is NOT self-serving and it does not hurt others. Love is respecting and admiring someone's qualities/ personality and making a constant effort to help that person realize his or her full potential and bring out the very best in the other person. Real love is not an unconscience "feeling" that someone can fall into and out of depending on the circumstances... real love is a CHOICE, a commitment, and a lot of effort and hard work. (I recommend the book "The Art of Loving" by the philsopher Eric Fromm... it really helps illustrate the difference between infatuation/ self-serving relationships and true love).

 

No offense Gwenyth but I don't think you can understand what real love is until you've done some soul-searching and made some priorities. Only then will you see that if you can fall into love so easily, then it's not real love... real love takes a lot of time and effort to develop, it does *not* happen overnight over some mutual attraction or "connection." And in my humble opinion, real love cannot be found in an A, and it is unfortunately sometimes not found in M, but it can be. I think that from its beginning its needs two happy, AVAILABLE people who want to share their current life with someone else, NOT an unavailable, unhappily married person who wants to burden a willing affair partner with the problems of their unhappy attachment and fantasize about a life they "wish" they had with them.

[Ladyjane14]

Love is NOT self-serving and it does not hurt others. Love is respecting and admiring someone's qualities/ personality and making a constant effort to help that person realize his or her full potential and bring out the very best in the other person. Real love is not an unconscience "feeling" that someone can fall into and out of depending on the circumstances... real love is a CHOICE, a commitment, and a lot of effort and hard work.

 

You're gonna make some lucky man freaky-happy some day, Nadia.

Good post.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Like others here I was an OW. I think that was a mistake personally and as a woman. As women we need to have more respect for each other. As someone said (I believe it was bentnotbroken), if there were no women willing to have sex with married men, there would be no heartbroken wives.

 

What you've given here is your dissertation on what you think, not what are facts...

 

Women should not have to control men...If a man chooses to step out of his M and sleep with someone other than his mate, that's his choice...On another thread I believe someone said,"Why should women have to control an adult male's choices?" Same thing here, just in the opposite circumstance.

 

Everyone has their own views on love...I find it so pompous of others to force their own ideas/judgments on others they have never met...What good does it do to tell someone you don't love him, he doesn't love you? Does that affect their reality at all? When two people love each other, nothing will stop them, nothing...

[Phateless]

What you've given here is your dissertation on what you think, not what are facts...

 

Women should not have to control men...If a man chooses to step out of his M and sleep with someone other than his mate, that's his choice...On another thread I believe someone said,"Why should women have to control an adult male's choices?" Same thing here, just in the opposite circumstance.

 

Everyone has their own views on love...I find it so pompous of others to force their own ideas/judgments on others they have never met...What good does it do to tell someone you don't love him, he doesn't love you? Does that affect their reality at all? When two people love each other, nothing will stop them, nothing...

 

I completely agree with you. I was referring to the OW potentially fooling herself about what exactly is going on and what happens next.

[reboot]

Everyone has their own views on love...I find it so pompous of others to force their own ideas/judgments on others they have never met...What good does it do to tell someone you don't love him, he doesn't love you? Does that affect their reality at all? When two people love each other, nothing will stop them, nothing...

If one doesn't want to hear the opinions of other people, one shouldn't post here. That's what this forum is for. I've been told things I didnt like here, I've never felt the urge to rant and rave about it. "Support" would include advice of all kinds, that one can pick and choose from. Not just telling someone that whatever they do is right no matter what. What's the point in that? I try very hard not to bash OW and I can appreciate their perspective, but someone coming here seeking enlightenment needs to hear all sides, not just what they want to hear to soothe them. What exactly would be the point in that?

 

Some of you OW have happy endings, and I have no reason to doubt you. But when you tell a newcomer about your happy ending, do you ever consider that maybe you're the exception to the rule? There's no harm in giving someone hope, but there's also no harm in someone else pointing out that it could be false hope, and warning them of what might be in store. They wouldn't be here if they weren't looking for answers. They need facts to help make decisions, and the facts don't support that it will "always work out" any more than they support "it will never work out".

 

People's personal values are always going to leak out into their posts, but is that really terrible? It's just not that hard to read through posts here and pick out what you need and ignore what you don't. A lot of people here are just way too confrontational, and those people are not all BS.

[bish]

She doesn't want to end the A, or haven't you got that yet?

 

Oh we get that. Thats also why its despicable.

[Phateless]

But the MM wouldn't have that "choice" if it weren't for women willing to bed them down no matter if they are married or not.

 

I think this is a moot point. I think it's the married person's responsibility to resist temptation. It's not like I can hang out with a girl and "accidentally" have sex with her. If that stuff happens, it's intentional, and it's because people are weak and selfish.

[GreenEyedLady]

But the MM wouldn't have that "choice" if it weren't for women willing to bed them down no matter if they are married or not.

 

So that's the answer, take away the choice, so there is no choice...

 

Does anybody want to know that the only reason their spouse didn't cheat was because there was no choice? The choice should be to stay faithful to their partner because they love them, not because they didn't have a choice...

 

With that line of thinking, why not take all our choices away...That way we won't make a mistake, right?

 

Maybe what should be explored is the why one spouse desires to cheat? Wouldn't that be a better option? Fix the actual problem, not the sympton?

[torranceshipman]

Lovely post Nadia - I agree with everything you said. (-:

[Virgo1982]

So that's the answer, take away the choice, so there is no choice...

 

Does anybody want to know that the only reason their spouse didn't cheat was because there was no choice? The choice should be to stay faithful to their partner because they love them, not because they didn't have a choice...

 

With that line of thinking, why not take all our choices away...That way we won't make a mistake, right?

 

Maybe what should be explored is the why one spouse desires to cheat? Wouldn't that be a better option? Fix the actual problem, not the sympton?

 

Well said. Some BS's behave as if their H's are children and the OW are "dirty old perverts" with candy luring them into a vehicle to do God-knows-what.

 

In most cases their H's are the ones in the car with the candy.

 

Either way, we all make choices as adults.

 

Sometimes the grass is greener. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes we have an incompetent gardner

[EnigmaXOXO]

"Why should women have to control an adult male's choices?"

 

No one has control over another persons “choices” period. But an “adult” should certainly have some kind of control over their own choices. At least enough to own their crap without differing blame, inventing silly excuses, or trying to dodge the consequences of their decisions. It isn’t rocket science, and emotionally mature adults aren’t slaves to their selfish urges and impulses unless their brains are functioning in addiction mode or just plain naivete and inexperience.

 

I find it so pompous of others to force their own ideas/judgments on others they have never met

 

And I find it rather sophomoric when people come to this board asking others to assess their situations (a.k.a. “judge”) and then rail out against the feedback they receive when it doesn’t support what they want so badly to believe. So they take to stirring up debates so they can fake fight for their unfulfilling relationships as a means to try and convince themselves how real and genuine it is. Unfortunately, the partner they’re fake fighting for isn’t fighting a whole hellava lot to prove their love for them in return. If they were, walking away from the spouse, family and cozy homelife NOW to be with the one they claim to “love” so darn much would hardly be considered a sacrifice. If and when someone truly loves you, you will be worth every bit of that trade. And until you’ve found a love like that, you don’t even know the half of what “love” is really all about. Only “need.” And “needy” people can’t love beyond their own selfish desires, and certainly don’t know how to give back as much as they demand to receive. And “love” certainly isn’t something you sit around waiting, begging, and browbeating for someone to finally feel enough to “prove” to you.

 

Does that affect their reality at all?

 

No. Because the “seeing” things for what they ‘really’ are often stops when one’s obsessive emotions, fuzzy fantasies, and wishful thinking takes over.

 

When two people love each other, nothing will stop them, nothing...

 

My point exactly.

 

Which is why when someone loves you (heart, mind, body and soul), you don’t have to “share” them with another lover, affair partner, spouse, family or second life they’ve set up elsewhere that they keep you separate, distant and removed from.

 

Being in a good relationship means that neither partner is benched on the sidelines. Real love isn’t a spectator sport.

[Virgo1982]

No one has control over another persons “choices” period. But an “adult” should certainly have some kind of control over their own choices. At least enough to own their crap without differing blame, inventing silly excuses, or trying to dodge the consequences of their decisions. It isn’t rocket science, and emotionally mature adults aren’t slaves to their selfish urges and impulses unless their brains are functioning in addiction mode or just plain naivete and inexperience.

 

 

 

And I find it rather sophomoric when people come to this board asking others to assess their situations (a.k.a. “judge”) and then rail out against the feedback they receive when it doesn’t support what they want so badly to believe. So they take to stirring up debates so they can fake fight for their unfulfilling relationships as a means to try and convince themselves how real and genuine it is. Unfortunately, the partner they’re fake fighting for isn’t fighting a whole hellava lot to prove their love for them in return. If they were, walking away from the spouse, family and cozy homelife NOW to be with the one they claim to “love” so darn much would hardly be considered a sacrifice. If and when someone truly loves you, you will be worth every bit of that trade. And until you’ve found a love like that, you don’t even know the half of what “love” is really all about. Only “need.” And “needy” people can’t love beyond their own selfish desires, and certainly don’t know how to give back as much as they demand to receive. And “love” certainly isn’t something you sit around waiting, begging, and browbeating for someone to finally feel enough to “prove” to you.

 

 

 

No. Because the “seeing” things for what they ‘really’ are often stops when one’s obsessive emotions, fuzzy fantasies, and wishful thinking takes over.

 

 

 

My point exactly.

 

Which is why when someone loves you (heart, mind, body and soul), you don’t have to “share” them with another lover, affair partner, spouse, family or second life they’ve set up elsewhere that they keep you separate, distant and removed from.

 

Being in a good relationship means that neither partner is benched on the sidelines. Real love isn’t a spectator sport.

 

I applaud you. Well said. I love the passage in bold print. It's so true.

[Ladyjane14]

Jaw-droppingly good post, Enigma. Wow! :bunny:

[nadiaj2727]

You're gonna make some lucky man freaky-happy some day, Nadia.

Good post.

 

Thank you, LadyJane (and Torrenceshipman). I am really glad there are people on this board who understand me. I feel like the only good thing that came out of my really bad decision (and it was a decision, although at the time I felt like I just "couldn't help it" and that "falling in love" was just "happening to me"... now I realize that's all a bunch of BS I told myself to make myself feel better about my actions and not wake up and realize what I was doing to myself and others) to have/ stay in an A is that I learned so much and grew so much as a person. Only NOW do I truly realize what real love is, and only NOW do I feel I'm in the position to give/ receive real love from someone. I am really thinking of contacting my ex-fiance, whom I believe knew what real love was before I did, and gave it to me consistently and saying, "I was so stupid, I didn't realize what I had and I took advantage of your love. Is there any way I can prove to you that I now have what it takes to get married to you?" But then I think... I'd better give it some more time, and make sure I'm not doing it for selfish reasons like really missing his companionship and constant love for me... if we are meant to be, we may wind up back together but I guess now is not the time to try to ask for his forgiveness, when I am only a few weeks into my "reawakening."

 

Anyway. I guess I come across as self-righteous, like I've got it all figured out. But I really don't mean to. For so long *I* was the lost one, at first wondering "What is this feeling I have for MM and how can I not give into it?" and then coming to this board and others asking, "How can I get out of this situation I've been in for 8 months?"... and then slowly, with the help and really good advice and true support of some of you on this board, I realized that what I was in was an affair, no different from any other, and that it is BAD thing to be in, and it does not equal true love and a good relationship like I want. So now it just feels really good to want to share what I've learned with others that are in the situation I just got out of. But I just realized that they don't really want the advice I have to give, nor do they appreciate it, so I guess I should just get on with my own life and stop trying to share my new-found wisdom on this OW forum, especially since I'm no longer an OW and actually the concept of affairs just disgusts me now and I feel like even thinking about it emotionally drags me down. And why try to share my hard-learned advice and experiences if it it's unappreciated at best and unwanted at worse by those same OW I really thought I was trying to empathize with and help? But I'm really glad that you and terranceshipman "get" me... thanks. I appreciate the REAL support you gave me just a couple of weeks ago when I was trying to be a recovering OW lol. I guess I've used up the usefulness of this forum in my own life and no one I'd like to support really cares about what I'm trying to say, so I think I will just go on my merry way now, but first I wanted to say thank you, sincerely, to those of you who helped me when I needed it. If it weren't for you I wouldn't be so very happy and relieved right now. ~Nadia

[bish]

So that's the answer, take away the choice, so there is no choice...

 

Oh now...you and I both know that isn't going to happen.

 

There will always be women like you willing to be with another woman's husband. So you just keep putting the blame right back on the BS all you want...whatever makes you feel better about it...well ..never mind...we all know you are just as "proud" of what you did too.

[imstunned]

I've stayed out of this - but I just wanted to point out to bish - that some MM are so hell bent on having an affiar that they lie through their teeth. It wasnt until 8 months in that I found out the guy I was seeing was married - he lied so that he could have an affair with me. I had no choice on whether or not to be with him on the basis of him being a married man as I thought he was as single as they come.

[american-woman]

I was being totally sarcastic when I said this. Sorry to have mislead you.

 

It takes a Lot for me to be persuaded to have sex. I also think it's okay for a woman to have sex like a man, to treat men like men treat women, etc. Have you guys ever seen Sex and the City, or read "be honest, you're not that into him either?" This book is knockoff of "He's just not that into you," except this book basically says "Hey girls! It's okay if we, as women, act like men--have sex for the thrill of it!"

 

 

Regardless of what you say. Your are on a slipery slope. Almost all the time a EA turns into an PA. What is it that YOU need from this MM?

[american-woman]

BLESS YOU.....well said

[american-woman]

Oh I`ve got it alright. She does`nt care who she hurts. Shes no different than the MM who will rewrite his marriage history just to ok his affair!! The grass is`nt greener on the other side it has to be mowed too! And lets ask the MM wife just how does SHE feel about this affair? and then lets ask the kids!!!

[Ladyjane14]

And why try to share my hard-learned advice and experiences if it it's unappreciated at best and unwanted at worse by those same OW I really thought I was trying to empathize with and help?

 

You are right that people listen to what they want to hear for the most part. But... THIS isn't the only board at Loveshack. You've got alot to offer. Why not jump in on one or two of the other forums?... Infidelity, Dating, Cheating and Jealousy, etc. Believe me, what one might abuse, another will USE.