White Flower Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 People believe what they believe. If you think it's wrong to steal candy from the store when you're 12, chances are you'll still believe the same when your 92. To live outside one's own core values can only result in internal strife. You just have to be true to your self. Good point and very true, yet, it is sometimes the internal strife that births a stronger character. And a stronger character can be even truer to the self. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Why don't you just be happy that you're not with a woman who in your words was a horrible person? Why is it that you want to stay angry and hateful? Because there are always going to be people like you in the world that could care less who you step on for your own selfish agenda. But as for children in general, there's just a point where they will grow up and live their own lives and you will have years when they are gone...Is there some reason people should live miserably for the rest of their lives? Some people aren't miserable at all and only think they are when someone like you interferes. Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Everyone has to ask themselves this question...In any R there is that risk of cheating, there's no guarantees...GEL, in these discussions I might seem harsh at times, but I want you to know in advance that I have nothing against you and I am only expressing my general opinions, which might very well be partially or completely incorrect. I think I have a good nose for smelling a potential cheater. I can't explain it, but I just feel them from a mile away. I should work as a sniff-dog for dating agencies . I've never had an unfaithful partner in a serious relationship. I really believe that fidelity is not a matter of mere luck (like car accidents or lightening strikes); I think you can tell easily who is and who isn't prone to cheating. I have cheated on my exes for various reasons, but I am really not a cheater. I cheated when the relationship was completely unserious; when I didn't love; when I was not loved; when I was continuously hurt. Without going too much into it, from this perspective I don't even think it was cheating. And instead of choosing to work on it or try and fix it, she chooses to do nothing but watch it slip away... You have only heard his side of the story. What did HE choose to do about it? I used the word plan, because that's what I considered it when I left...I decided what I needed to do and did it so I could be free of my M...Now I don't know what he would call it, but it's the decisions that he makes to end it...GEL, did you leave your husband because of this affair? You advise save the marriage at all costs, Interestingly, I noticed the same thing about LadyJane, but in MY case she said "Fine. You're better off without him." I was like 'wow, all the marriages are worth saving except mine?' This attitude convinced me that it was really bad and I deserved better. Anyway, back to you. I think what LJ is trying to convey to you is not the moralistic what-to-do list; it's rather the reading between the lines that you need to do to get to know your man. When I was dating my husband, I was jealous of the fact that he still communicated with his first wife. But when I realized that she was a bipolar woman who needed help, I thought: if I were in her shoes, I would appreciate him being there for me. That made me respect him more (despite of other things about him that I uncovered later, which are not really his fault). When your lover is doing something to someone else, you have to put yourself in that position and decide if you would think of him as highly if you were on that side. This has to go through your own machine of values. E.g. my husband told his second wife to abort their baby when they were dating. She blamed him for not having children, because she is 50 now, but when I put myself in her shoes, I can't imagine being childless and pregnant at 39 and aborting - I would have definitely kept the baby because that would be my last chance to be a mother. Secondly, when she married him, she was protecting herself with BC, drank, partied, did drugs, which speaks about her motherly abilities. I thought about this a lot and determined that it was HER fault why she remained childless to this day. This was just an example. I hope you're contemplating the circumstances of his marriage and imagining yourself in his wife's position - because you WILL be in his wife's position. Maybe not cheated on, but his attitudes and respect for women will reflect in your relationship. Men tend to be very sweet before they start living with a woman, but show their true colors when things get down. And I'm sick of defending us when I didn't want any advice...I merely answered a post...So if you feel like a better person than me and find me inhuman and morally deficient, you're entitled to your opinion...But I beg to differ...I apologize for giving you unsolicited opinion. I don't think you're inhumane or morally deficient. I just hope you don't get hurt. Do you have kids, GEL? Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hmm, well I'm not sure how we got here on this thread, but, what nadia and RP have written below really resonates for me. GEL, I'm not implying that YOUR MM is sneaky/ manipulative, I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. One common assertion on this thread that I've seen to be true in my own situation is that MM tend to be sneaky/ manipulative (I don't know if that's what happens when someone has an A, or if that's the type of person who HAS an A, but it seems to be very common), but I'm not saying that EVERY MM is like that or that yours is. I agree with NJ that it's something to think about, though... if he isn't telling her the whole story, it's b/c he's trying in some way to protect his own butt and spin the story in a way that makes him look like a good guy. Who's to say he's not this type of person in general and he won't do that same to you if it benefits him one day? Just something to think about, not trying to be on the offensive I think what LJ is trying to convey to you is not the moralistic what-to-do list; it's rather the reading between the lines that you need to do to get to know your man. When I was dating my husband, I was jealous of the fact that he still communicated with his first wife. But when I realized that she was a bipolar woman who needed help, I thought: if I were in her shoes, I would appreciate him being there for me. That made me respect him more (despite of other things about him that I uncovered later, which are not really his fault). When your lover is doing something to someone else, you have to put yourself in that position and decide if you would think of him as highly if you were on that side. This has to go through your own machine of values. I definitely worry about these aspects of my MM's character. Perhaps he's not doing this to me now, perhaps he's only lying to, misleading, plotting against, his W. Perhaps she's the only person in the world that he's not honest with in order that he can manipulate the situation and get his own way. Ha! But actually, I know that's not the case at all. I don't know in which ways he does it to me, but I can be almost certain that he does, because he's done it to others either in front of me, or he's told me about it... it's just part of his way of dealing with the world. BUT... it's not a good trait/habit to have. And he really has to sort that out before I could consider any kind of future with him. It's an old saying, but it's still true (imho), if you want to know how someone will treat you, look at how they treat other people. Because that's what you've got coming. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 GreenEyedLady-- No one just decides [to get divorced] in one day and leaves...It takes awhile... I disagree with that. The people men know who actually got divorced (granted, I only know 3 in real life and have talked to a bunch online) said that that was exactly the way they did it. When they knew they no longer wanted to be in that bad R, they left it, by leaving the house, filing for the D and sorting out the mess later. All they knew is that they wanted out badly enough to do it. One of my friends was divorced 14 days after filing (we don't have a waiting period in my state) and said: "If you want divorced badly enough, you get divorced. You don't let anything stand in your way. Just like anything else in life." To me, it seems to be the MM who are having affairs that take so long to get divorced, who drag their feet and give excuses for why they can't do it right away... Yes, far too many men drag their feet for far too long, on getting a divorce. I don't think anyone on this board would argue with that! And yes, they are full of 'reasons' and excuses why it can't happen now... However, someone who got a divorce in 14 days surely (please tell me!) didn't wake up one morning and decide it was over. He must have been considering, thinking about ('planning' by any other name..?) the fact that his marriage was over and he wanted out, for quite some time. Otherwise, you know, he's a pretty hasty fellow what if the wind changes direction and he realises he made a boo-boo? Link to post Share on other sites
JackJack Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Amazing, just a few pages back the OP wanted the thread to end. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 NoraJane: You're buying into the MM's sneaky, manipulative style. I hope he doesn't turn out to be so controlling with your life one day. That is so true. My xMM was very sneaky and manipulative, and I started to notice he was doing it to me. I was like... wow, imagine what he's doing to his wife, as he was able to pull the wool over her eyes for 8 months (at least about having an A... who knows what else). I did NOT want to be his next "victim", nor did I like taking part in his double life/ sneaky cover-ups anymore. I am so proud to say "This is my life, world, see it as it is," now, instead of hiding part of myself from most people and only letting HIM know the real truth about what was going on in my life... how much power did that give him?!?! It started to feel like he was not only in control of them getting a D (and wasn't acting on it) but he was also in control of my own life and decisions in the meantime. It felt so good to take that control/ power back for myself, away from him. (GEL, I'm not implying that YOUR MM is sneaky/ manipulative, I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. One common assertion on this thread that I've seen to be true in my own situation is that MM tend to be sneaky/ manipulative (I don't know if that's what happens when someone has an A, or if that's the type of person who HAS an A, but it seems to be very common), but I'm not saying that EVERY MM is like that or that yours is. I agree with NJ that it's something to think about, though... if he isn't telling her the whole story, it's b/c he's trying in some way to protect his own butt and spin the story in a way that makes him look like a good guy. Who's to say he's not this type of person in general and he won't do that same to you if it benefits him one day? Just something to think about, not trying to be on the offensive.) And you were fortunate (?) that you at least knew he was still married when you met him. Others aren't as fortunate, in that MM lied to them about being married from the beginning and they didn't find out until much later. Regardless of what story his spins to explain that, in order to accept that he controlled the OW's knowledge that he's married, or what actually is happening in his marriage, and still choose to be with him, implies accepting his sneaky, manipulative nature, and not just when he's manipulating his wife. I'm sure there are a few honest MM out there, maybe, but most of them practice deception and get very good at it. It's hard to imagine they limit that practice to just the wife. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 GEL, in these discussions I might seem harsh at times, but I want you to know in advance that I have nothing against you and I am only expressing my general opinions, which might very well be partially or completely incorrect. I think I have a good nose for smelling a potential cheater. I can't explain it, but I just feel them from a mile away. I should work as a sniff-dog for dating agencies . I've never had an unfaithful partner in a serious relationship. I really believe that fidelity is not a matter of mere luck (like car accidents or lightening strikes); I think you can tell easily who is and who isn't prone to cheating. I have cheated on my exes for various reasons, but I am really not a cheater. I cheated when the relationship was completely unserious; when I didn't love; when I was not loved; when I was continuously hurt. Without going too much into it, from this perspective I don't even think it was cheating. You have only heard his side of the story. What did HE choose to do about it? GEL, did you leave your husband because of this affair? Interestingly, I noticed the same thing about LadyJane, but in MY case she said "Fine. You're better off without him." I was like 'wow, all the marriages are worth saving except mine?' This attitude convinced me that it was really bad and I deserved better. Anyway, back to you. I think what LJ is trying to convey to you is not the moralistic what-to-do list; it's rather the reading between the lines that you need to do to get to know your man. When I was dating my husband, I was jealous of the fact that he still communicated with his first wife. But when I realized that she was a bipolar woman who needed help, I thought: if I were in her shoes, I would appreciate him being there for me. That made me respect him more (despite of other things about him that I uncovered later, which are not really his fault). When your lover is doing something to someone else, you have to put yourself in that position and decide if you would think of him as highly if you were on that side. This has to go through your own machine of values. E.g. my husband told his second wife to abort their baby when they were dating. She blamed him for not having children, because she is 50 now, but when I put myself in her shoes, I can't imagine being childless and pregnant at 39 and aborting - I would have definitely kept the baby because that would be my last chance to be a mother. Secondly, when she married him, she was protecting herself with BC, drank, partied, did drugs, which speaks about her motherly abilities. I thought about this a lot and determined that it was HER fault why she remained childless to this day. This was just an example. I hope you're contemplating the circumstances of his marriage and imagining yourself in his wife's position - because you WILL be in his wife's position. Maybe not cheated on, but his attitudes and respect for women will reflect in your relationship. Men tend to be very sweet before they start living with a woman, but show their true colors when things get down. I apologize for giving you unsolicited opinion. I don't think you're inhumane or morally deficient. I just hope you don't get hurt. Do you have kids, GEL? I didn't mean that last remark for you... I left my M long before I met my partner, even had the papers...Yes I have children... I understand what all of you are saying and I've already thought about it at length...And I'm satisfied with our R and the answers he has given... I will not give specifics about anything else simply because it's TMI and their M is really none of my business...We are doing what we need to do to be together...That is separate from what the two of them will be doing... Like I said this not my thread and respectfully I want to end the discussion of my R... Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Because there are always going to be people like you in the world that could care less who you step on for your own selfish agenda. Some people aren't miserable at all and only think they are when someone like you interferes. Blah, blah, blah! Different day, same story! Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Blah, blah, blah! Different day, same story! I know...too much truth for ya, so thats the best you got in reply. Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I'm not buying into anything... except for the crap your MM feeds you Why would her plan for her life supercede's her H's plan for his? Her plan wouldn't supercede his but she has the right to not be in the dark about what is going on in HER MARRIAGE. She should be able to decide what she is going to do with her life BEFORE the ***** hits the fan! She should be allowed to make plans and take the steps for a "smooth" tansition just like he does! Why should two people who are miserable together, spend the rest of their lives like that? Answer that one?! They shouldn't, but one shouldn't be left in the dark while the other is making plans! I don't have to defend or justify or explain... Or share in your fantacy land:rolleyes: Geez, wake up already would you!? Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 You seem to think that she has no idea of what is wrong in her M...And instead of choosing to work on it or try and fix it, she chooses to do nothing but watch it slip away... Did you hear this from her? I doubt it. Common lies from a MM. So he's trying to do what is best for him and her.. Oh yeah, by sleeping with you!? I wish I wasn't in this position... You don't have to be but you chose to be as long as you are sharing a mm with his wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 I found this statement by Recordproducer quite intersting: I cheated when the relationship was completely unserious; when I didn't love; when I was not loved; when I was continuously hurt. Without going too much into it, from this perspective I don't even think it was cheating. I feel that Any person who cheats, whether it be on their BF/GF or spouse, that it's because they do not Truly love this person. How could Anyone who cheats claim they are totally in love with the person they are cheating on? Call me an idiot, but there's always a reason someone is cheating on the other person. Just because one is married does Not mean the person is in the marriage--obviously. If you are married and cheating, you just are not commited to or serious about the marriage. How could anyone who is married insist they Are happy and commited to their spouse? Hellooooo!!!!!!! It just does Not work like that. I think the problem stems from the fact that most people Hate admitting they have failed, particularly when it comes to love and money (hey, sometimes even sex...). It's easier to cheat and be unfaithful and lie than admit they did many wrongs which would be insulting to their egos. Having to own up to the fact that they failed their marriage and family to other family and friends is a big no no to some people. It's just one of those things in life many steer away from. I think this is a reason my father didn't pursue a divorce from my mother--he didn't want to admit his marriage was a failure. He had children and didn't want to walk away from him. He obvioiusly didn't care about his wife--and how can a cheating spouse EVER admit they care about their wife when they are willingly hurting their spouse day after day? This is my theory on cheating spouses and partners. Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 This is my theory on cheating spouses and partners. ~And what is your theory on people who cheat with cheating partners? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 I don't see anything for your theory--is that the point? I'm a bit slow LOLOL... My theory is that, as I have claimed, they just do Not care enough about the spouse, and feel the spouse is just not their problem. That's my theory If you cared about the spouse, or about the relationship at hand, then you just would not agree to have the affair. Also, I know MANY people who have either cheated on their spouse/BF/GF, or have engaged in an affair with a friend's spouse/GF/BF, and aren't horrible people. Sh*t happens, and it's part of life, and dealing with it is Also part of life. I have Never really met a person who either cheated or was part of cheating, and is a Horrible person. Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I don't see anything for your theory--is that the point? I'm a bit slow LOLOL... My theory is that, as I have claimed, they just do Not care enough about the spouse, and feel the spouse is just not their problem. That's my theory If you cared about the spouse, or about the relationship at hand, then you just would not agree to have the affair. Also, I know MANY people who have either cheated on their spouse/BF/GF, or have engaged in an affair with a friend's spouse/GF/BF, and aren't horrible people. Sh*t happens, and it's part of life, and dealing with it is Also part of life. I have Never really met a person who either cheated or was part of cheating, and is a Horrible person. I'm not talking about wheatehr someone is horrible or not. Also, I get what you're saying about soemone who cheats on their spouse. That's not my question. My question was, what was your theory on people like YOU for example who cheat with a cheating person? You hgave your theory on people who cheat on their spouses but what abnout the other person who is helping to cheat? Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Do you seriously not think some people cheat just because they enjoy variety, are self-absorbed, and want what they want when they want it, regardless of who may get hurt? Link to post Share on other sites
Kasan Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Also, I know MANY people who have either cheated on their spouse/BF/GF, or have engaged in an affair with a friend's spouse/GF/BF, and aren't horrible people. Sh*t happens, and it's part of life, and dealing with it is Also part of life. I have Never really met a person who either cheated or was part of cheating, and is a Horrible person. You are right, people who cheat aren't horrible people, but they do leave a path of destruction when the affair is found out. Unfortunately in a lot of cases, it is the children who suffer when families split up. It is not my aim to bash you here, but OP, I wonder how you would feel if you were in what you thought was a committed relationship and your SO cheated on you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 And I said, as you can easily read, that I do not care about her, and feel it's not My problem he's cheating on his spouse. I have my own bucket full of problems. Maybe I'm selfish? I don't know. I guess this is considered being selfish because in reality, it's All about the OP, not the BS. That's generally speaking, of course. In my situation, the MM always spoke negatively about his marriage, so from the getko, I never gave a hoot about the marriage. He never gave me a reason to either, so that didn't help the situation at all. And the encouragement from his friends and coworkers also doesn't help the situation. We're surrounded by people who encourage us to engage in this affair... so the odds are for us, not against. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 It is not my aim to bash you here, but OP, I wonder how you would feel if you were in what you thought was a committed relationship and your SO cheated on you. I don't know what a SO is, spouse something I assume?, but I have been there. I moved on, as I have expressed earlier, and moved on to better things. The cheating slime ball of a BF actually did me more good than harm. Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I don't know what a SO is, spouse something I assume?, but I have been there. I moved on, as I have expressed earlier, and moved on to better things. The cheating slime ball of a BF actually did me more good than harm. SO = Signifigant Other Link to post Share on other sites
JackJack Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 And I said, as you can easily read, that I do not care about her, and feel it's not My problem he's cheating on his spouse. I have my own bucket full of problems. Maybe I'm selfish? I don't know. I guess this is considered being selfish because in reality, it's All about the OP, not the BS. That's generally speaking, of course. In my situation, the MM always spoke negatively about his marriage, so from the getko, I never gave a hoot about the marriage. He never gave me a reason to either, so that didn't help the situation at all. And the encouragement from his friends and coworkers also doesn't help the situation. We're surrounded by people who encourage us to engage in this affair... so the odds are for us, not against. You have a bucket full of problems and you do not think this affair with this MM is adding to it? Surrounded by people who encourage this? What kinds of people are you hanging around? And would it make a difference if they were not encouraging this? Yes, the odds are more than likely against you. Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I don't know what a SO is, spouse something I assume?, but I have been there. I moved on, as I have expressed earlier, and moved on to better things. The cheating slime ball of a BF actually did me more good than harm. ...yet people who cheat aren't horrible people, just cheating slime balls? Can you answer my post? Link to post Share on other sites
JackJack Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Is it just me or am I reading some contridictions here? I was reading your other post, and you had stated if you met someone else, then the MM was no loss, but other times you have said, your proud and lucky to have him in your life. You use love smiley's and say the odds are FOR you not against you. I'm not quite clear on how it is you truly feel then. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gwyneth Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 SO = Signifigant Other haha, thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
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