Does marriage drastically change people?

[marlena]

Many of my married female friends and some female members of my family have undergone drastic changes in their personality after being married for a very long time. Some have become bitter, more co - dependent, aggressive and their once very liberal ideas have now turned to extremely conservative. These women who were once independent, opinionated, fun-loving, witty are now mere shadows of themselves. Actually, what I have noticed is that they begin to resemble their husbands more and more. It is disheartening, to say the least. Has anyone else noticed this? And if yes, why so, do you think?

[Woggle]

Most of my married male friends have become wimps who are afraid to even go to a movie without asking permission and seem to have cut their balls off in order to keep the peace in their house. They walk on eggshells in order to avoid upsetting their wives and are not fun to be around at all though sometimes they do come out of their shell when the wives aren't around. Last September I had an extra ticket to go to a concert and when I heard my friend telling his wife on the phone I could literally hear her screaming on the other end. He is afraid to even breathe because it might start an argument. I don't think all marriages are like this but since nowadays men and women for the most part barely even like each other anymore it isn't pretty when you put a man and a woman in the same house. I don't think it has to be this way but most people these days aren't built to have a good partnership with anybody.

[shadowofman]

I think moving in together changes people. And I have noticed both of your opinions in my own home. I think my wife's ideologies have changed to meet mine somewhat. And I am constantly walking on eggshells in my relationship. The story about the concert tickets, yeah, that's about me. I'm trying to grow a pair though.

[marlena]

men and women for the most part barely even like each other anymore

 

So sadly true. You can almost slice the resentment with a knife. They all look and act so miserable. I get so depressed not to mention bored that I never want to go out with them again. And they wonder why on top of it all! Can't they see what they have become???

 

This unfortunately includes my sisters and their husbands. One sister was very independent, artistic, creative, liberal in her ideas and politics, adventuresome, open- minded etc... She married a VERY conservative guy and bam 15 years later she's hardly recognizable, even to herelf. She's become depressed, aggressive, lost her witty humour and has adopted all thiese conventional ideas that I know do not reflect who she really is. She knows it, too. This may very well be the reason she is so unhappy.

 

Is this the fate of all marriages? What ever happened to equal partnership and respecting one another's individuality and personal freedom of choice and expression? Why do married people turn into clones of one another? Why do they lose their identity?

[marlena]

I think moving in together changes people. And I have noticed both of your opinions in my own home. I think my wife's ideologies have changed to meet mine somewhat. And I am constantly walking on eggshells in my relationship. The story about the concert tickets, yeah, that's about me. I'm trying to grow a pair though.

__________________

 

Why Shadow? Why does it have to be this way? Is keeping the marriage intact at whatever cost more important than one's own sense of self? Isn't that a big price to pay, surrendering who you are to another, just to stay married even when that marriage is making you unhappy? Is it worth it? Really, I want to know what people think.

[Woggle]

It's not the fate of all marriages. Except for my moments of doubt I think my wife and I have a very good marriage. Maybe we are freaks of nature but we don't seem to have any of the problems our friends have. This society in general is just effed up beyond belief and effed up marriages are a symptom of that. Maybe the secret to my marriage is that both of us feel we are the only people left that haven't completely lost our minds.

[marlena]

Glad to hear it, Woggle. Fortunately, there are some couples who still give marriage a good name!!!!!!!!!! Unfortunately, they are few and far between!

[OpenBook]

Many of my married female friends and some female members of my family have undergone drastic changes in their personality after being married for a very long time. Some have become bitter, more co - dependent, aggressive and their once very liberal ideas have now turned to extremely conservative. These women who were once independent, opinionated, fun-loving, witty are now mere shadows of themselves. Actually, what I have noticed is that they begin to resemble their husbands more and more. It is disheartening, to say the least. Has anyone else noticed this? And if yes, why so, do you think?

 

Great thread topic, Marlena!! Yup, I've noticed it too. Marriage is definitely better for men than it is for women, IMO. Something White Flower posted in another thread, that made me want to weep, because I've seen this too many times... that the main reason her marriage endured was because she'd been a pushover all those years. I think most marriages end up being such a terrible power struggle between two people, and the men usually win - because they've had more practice at it. However, I've also seen marriages where the men have lost at the game... and they are also mere shadows of themselves. It seems that one person must win, and the other must lose, in order to stay married. It is too high of a price to pay, for any human being. That's the way I see it, anyway.

[DazedandConfused66]

Couldn't disagree more. Marriage was the absolute best thing that ever happened to my life. If you see/experience nothing but misery, loss and sadness after marriage, you chose your spouse poorly....either that, or you just never embraced the possibilities of living half your life for the pleasure and enjoyment of another human being while they did EXACTLY the same for you.

 

95% of all marriage problems can be traced directly to selfishness and usually on both sides of the partnership. When you are "yoked together" to face life as a team, your ability to accomplish goals doubles. That's math at work for you. If you aren't able to accomplish twice as much married (happiness, life goals, etc), then the marriage is deeply flawed -OR- the two individuals aren't sharing the same goals. Either way.....it will evidence itself by creating the unhappiness and misery you are pointing out here.

 

My advice as a happily married man of 20 years.....if you go looking for miserable marriages, you are sure to find them....even more sure to live one. Go look for positive marriages and spend your time trying to determine what made THOSE couples live fulfilling and enriched lives. The miserable couples have little guidance or inspiration to offer you.

[Tony T]

95% of all marriage problems can be traced directly to selfishness and usually on both sides of the partnership. When you are "yoked together" to face life as a team, your ability to accomplish goals doubles. That's math at work for you. If you aren't able to accomplish twice as much married (happiness, life goals, etc), then the marriage is deeply flawed -OR- the two individuals aren't sharing the same goals.

 

Unfortunately, better than 95 percent of people nowadays are selfish and self centered. You are so right, marriage doesn't work well for these kinds of people. Finding a giving partner, who isn't just acting that way to snare you, is very difficult. (There also has to be the chemistry and other compatibilities there too.) People want THEIR needs met and they want TO GET OUT OF IT WHAT THEY WANT.

 

How many times have you read an ad in the personals where someone is looking for somebody they can make happy...looking for somebody they can make life better for. Never happen. When I look at the ads females put in there, better than 90 percent want a guy six feet tall or better, great income (financially stable), lots of travel, lots of fine dining, etc.

 

Unfortunately, you can't attend classes or therapy to be a good marriage partner unless you're willing to be phony. You can change some things about yourself but you can't change your essence. If you're selfish and it's paying off for you there's not a chance in hell you'll change...for a therapist...a partner or whoever. On the other hand, this thread is all about people changing...many for the sake of their partner and keeping their marriage together despite the fact that it's making them miserable to do so.

 

So what's the answer folks?

[marlena]

Yup, I've noticed it too. Marriage is definitely better for men than it is for women, IMO. Something White Flower posted in another thread, that made me want to weep, because I've seen this too many times... that the main reason her marriage endured was because she'd been a pushover all those years.

 

Openbook,

Yes, I have noticed that this loss of identity occurs more to women than men although of course I have seen the opposite take place as well. Women who were once free thinkers suddenly parrot whatever their husbands say even if it is the exact antithesis of whatever they once believed. They seem to have lost the ability to express their own points of view. Values and goals once held onto dearly are swapped for their husbands values and goals. One think I have noticed is that most of these marrages have been troubled ones from the start. Often these women have voiced their discontent with their spouses. Then, one day, they do a 360 and you look on in bewilderment at a person who hardly resembles the person you once knew. Whenever I have asked them, they say marraige is all about compromise. This isn't compromise. It's total surrender. Some go on to say "well, so and so and I have reached an equilibrium in our marriage". Hardly! It is not at all a relationship of equals. The scales tips very,very much to one side and one side only.

 

And then the consequences. They become bitter, aggressive, isolated and very envious I'd say of their single friends. Although they would never admit it.

 

D and C,

 

You and your wife are the exception to the rule! One very difficult to find. I know of only one couple who is like this. Both complement eachother nicely and I love being around them. Yes, I agree with you. It is about the wrong two "yolking together" to begin with. Inevitably, in order for the marriage to survive, one of the two has to give in to the other. I just don't know if it is worth it. I try to stay away from married couples that are like this but it isn't always easy to do. Some are family and some are dear old friends.

 

You can change some things about yourself but you can't change your essence.

 

It is the essence I am talking about Tony. The essence of who they are changes radically. They become enmeshed with their partners and the two become one. I can see having a common front but most of the time it is just that, a FRONT, a vitrine. Underneath it all resentment and frustration build up and even these negative feelings distorts their personalities. The once sweet - tempered become embittered, the once independent become clingy, the once patient explode in a second.

 

Is that why more and more people are opting for singlehood?

 

Is the answer being more careful when choosing a partner or is this a lottery ticket of some kind?

[marlena]

Some feedback from the married folks? Would love to hear what you have to say.

[DazedandConfused66]

Openbook,

 

D and C,

 

You and your wife are the exception to the rule! One very difficult to find. I know of only one couple who is like this. Both complement eachother nicely and I love being around them. Yes, I agree with you. It is about the wrong two "yolking together" to begin with. Inevitably, in order for the marriage to survive, one of the two has to give in to the other. I just don't know if it is worth it. I try to stay away from married couples that are like this but it isn't always easy to do. Some are family and some are dear old friends.

 

 

I've heard this on these boards before, and I've heard it in my own personal life, but the thing is...I don't believe that we are the "exception to the rule." I think we are "the rule" and all these bad marriages are the exceptions. Maybe it's just a perspective on life thing....I'm honestly not sure.

 

See, our marriage has had it's fair share of ups and downs....some downs so low as to destroy other marriages I'd wager. Our very wedding day ended in disaster for the family when a family member chose THAT DAY of all days to end her own life violently. And yet...I can still truthfully declare, scream it to anyone who will listen, that my marriage has been the best thing that ever happened to my life. Notice the use of the small phrase "to my life," and not "in my life." Because marriage HAS changed me, made me a better person and made my wife a better person. As a couple, we are quite formidable. As individuals....pretty decent but no way could we have accomplished what we have as a team.

 

 

But I've identified literally dozens and dozens of other couples in our lives that have been mentors and friends to the both of us during our various life trials and challenges. They exist out there....but just like the evening news, you don't tend to pay attention to the really good things in life...only the bad. It's kind of like driving past an accident. Everyone slows down to take a look at the carnage and destruction, but nobody pays attention that the 2 cars involved in that wreck are a statistical anomaly relative to the thousands of vehicles slowing down around them to rubberneck. That's how life works...we pay attention to the "wrecks" and don't notice all the others coming and going and living their lives just fine.

 

You have to quit acknowledging the wrecked marriages in life to have a great marriage I think. I don't mean ignore your family and friends involved in slow-motion wrecked marriages....not what I'm saying. But there is so much more to be gained by surrounding yourself with positive role models as opposed to negative ones. In my own life, we've eliminated so many bad influences from our day-to-day.....television is all but gone, our family PLAYS together, literally, with everything from football to videogames, we do everything we can to give our children a POSITIVE model for a healthy marriage. That way, they've got something to compare relationships with in their own lives and, as parents, I hope they make good choices. There are friendships I've let lapse because the married couple were just nasty to one another and presented nothing but pain and suffering as an image to my spouse and I. But for everyone of those, I've found and fostered at least 2 other close friendships with happily married couples.

 

You just have to determine what you wish to feed your "mental models." I feed mine with positive role models....then it's pretty easy to let their good habits rub off onto me. Call it the "Tony Robbins" approach to life I guess...not a vote for or against him I guess. But a PMA about relationships, if SHARED by both parties, can pay huge dividends.

[Woggle]

The answer is being more careful in choosing a partner. Most people show the signs beforehand and people choose to ignore it or try to change it. Women especially need to realize that men are not a project and the man he is on the wedding day will probably be the man he is a few years down the line. The state of affairs we see today is fallout from the battle of the sexes and many people are feeling battered and bruised because of it. People seem to have lost the ability to be partners instead of making everything a battle. I have noticed the giving in with my friends as well. Their wives talk to them like they are children and they just go along with it because if they don't they will be getting screamed at all night or their wives will threaten divorce and they will end up a weekend dad. Truth be told I have seen more men surrendering in order to keep the peace. When the wives aren't around they act like teenagers away from their parents.

[Kasan]

I agree, I have undergone some drastic changes in myself since I have been married--but IMO they are for the best.

 

I have softened around the edges where once I was so strong--some would call it the "chip on your shoulder". For that I am grateful. I have learned empathy, not to take life so seriously--to laugh at myself. I have been able to really explore my creative side and excel at what I do.

 

I am not sure I would have been able to accomplish this with any other man--my marriage has allowed me to stretch and grow and become what I was meant to be without losing my independence or my essence.

 

For me, marriage isn't/wasn't about losing an identity, it was about finding mine.

 

No surrender here!

[Woggle]

I think that marriage softened my hard edges as well. If I never met my wife who knows how I would be right now. You think I am bitter against women now look at some of my earliest posts from when I was still single. I am just glad in this effed up world that I have somebody that has my back and I have hers. She accepts me for me and I accept her for her.

[lindya]

Many of my married female friends and some female members of my family have undergone drastic changes in their personality after being married for a very long time..... It is disheartening, to say the least. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Most of my female friends have pretty strong, distinctive personalities. I can think of a few who have maybe become a bit more like their husbands as the marriage has progressed - but I think that's inevitable when people live together. None of my friends are married/hooked up with guys I don't like, so I don't suppose it's an issue for me if they do start to adopt some of their guys' traits.

 

There's only one friendship I've noticed real changes in since the marriage, and that would be my oldest friend. Actually, we're not even in touch any more, which I sometimes feel sad about. I made the effort a couple of times, it wasn't reciprocated and so I thought "oh well, I tried" and gave up. I don't think that was anything to do with her husband though; I think it was more to do with distance, and two people having very little in common with eachother now, other than a shared childhood history.

 

Maybe we'll connect again at some point in the future. I hope so - but yes, I definitely think people do change as their lifestyles alter, and it's not necessarily something you can attribute to their spouse. Sometimes your friendships can survive the changes, or sometimes the friendship either just has to end or be put on hold for a while.

[marlena]

But there is so much more to be gained by surrounding yourself with positive role models as opposed to negative ones. In my own life, we've eliminated so many bad influences from our day-to-day...

 

This is the crux of it all. This is what I think I am trying to accomplish in my life right now. I am getting rid of the clutter even if that means avoiding certain friends who have become an unsettling presence in my life. I too hardly ever watch TV anymore which leaves me with more reading time.

 

There are friendships I've let lapse because the married couple were just nasty to one another and presented nothing but pain and suffering as an image to my spouse and I

 

Sadly, I visit my sister on a less regular basis because of this. It seems that every time I do I walk right into their fierce arguments. I get very upset inside and the feeling stays with me for days.

 

 

Most people show the signs beforehand and people choose to ignore it or try to change it.

 

Woggle, this I find to be so true. People tell us right from day one who they really are. We simply choose to ignore what is staring at us right in the face. Or even worse, we delude ourselves into thinking that person will change. Or we are too weak to walk away when we should. This is a lesson I learnt the hard way. Today I watch for the first signs and force myself to walk when I know the person is all wrong for me. That's why I will probably be alone the rest of my life. I'd rather no relationship than a bad own.

 

 

So, it is a bit of a lottery ticket, isn't it? Some people are fortunate in finding the "right one" whle others are not. Oh, well, as the song goes:

 

Some are lucky

Some are not

Just be thankful

for you've got!!

 

Woggle, I read a bit of your story. I think it's wonderful that you didn't let social taboos prevent you from marrying a woman older than you! She is very pretty and I'm so happy for the both of you!!!

[marlena]

Kasan,

 

It couldn't have been otherwise with someone like you! I am sure both you and your husband are two wonderful people who deserve eachother!!!

[Woggle]

It is sort of a lottery ticket but I look at it more as a card game and if you are good you can rig it in your favor. I know I am not settling because I swore I would never marry again so she must be good to have changed my mind. I still think a man must be very very careful about marrying because if it goes wrong he can end up being sucked dry and not being allowed to see his own kids.

 

I don't do anything I do to please society and if the right woman is a little older so be it. A few of my friends made comments but they wish they would a woman like this instead of the screaming harpies they married. I don't know it is age but I finally feel like I have a woman that is interested in doing more than watching Access Hollywood and listening to Britney Spears. I remember bringing a date over when I was single and she was making fun of me for having records from back in the day in my record collection but with my wife we go record shopping together.

[marlena]

Lyndia,

 

You're absolutely right. It is normal to change when you have been living with someone for so long. After all, closely sharing your life with someone cannot BUT have an impact on your personality. Whether it is a negative impact or a positive one, I think, has to do with the compatability of the couple to begin with. Nothing can save a marriage when you've married the wrong person. This is where extreme caution when choosing a partnert comes into play.

 

About your friend, it probably is the distance. I lost a lot of friends in the USA because I moved to other side of the Atlantic. BUT, now, thanks to LS and technology, I have made more!!!!!!

[Cobra_X30]

You're absolutely right. It is normal to change when you have been living with someone for so long. After all, closely sharing your life with someone cannot BUT have an impact on your personality. Whether it is a negative impact or a positive one, I think, has to do with the compatability of the couple to begin with. Nothing can save a marriage when you've married the wrong person. This is where extreme caution when choosing a partnert comes into play.

 

Poeple change even when they are not married. The goal is to grow together, not apart.

 

I think many times people do marry the right person, but they fail to make it work due to unrealistic expectations, selfishness, and a complete lack of effort.

[marlena]

The goal is to grow together, not apart

 

Agreed. But what if growing together entails renouncing WHO YOU ARE? Growing together should be growing together as individuals, not WELDING together as ONE entity. Each should try to enhance and promote the other's individuality not obliterate it.

 

I have a friend. She's been with her husband for years. She finishes his sentences and he hers. Often they repeat the end of eachother's sentence. Quite funny, actually. But then agian, this deosn't bother me because she was always the needy, dependent, clingy, never having an opinio of her own type anyway. She is just being true to her nature. She found someone just like her and I think they are happily married. 30 years no less.

 

I also know a woman who always stuck by her beliefs no matter what. She was, like I said free- spirited, liberal and progressive in her views, an anti- conformist. She married someone very nice, a good family man and good provider but with very conservative and traditonal values.especailly concerning gender roles. Know what? Today she has adopted her husbands views and is just a relic of what she used to be.

 

It's so upsetting to me! I delight in the other couple's company, though they are nothing like me, more. Make sense?

 

It's about being consistently true and loyal to who you are, your goals, principles, values and to that special person you are that sets you apart from everyone else.

[Cobra_X30]

I also know a woman who always stuck by her beliefs no matter what. She was, like I said free- spirited, liberal and progressive in her views, an anti- conformist. She married someone very nice, a good family man and good provider but with very conservative and traditonal values.especailly concerning gender roles. Know what? Today she has adopted her husbands views and is just a relic of what she used to be.

 

It's so upsetting to me! I delight in the other couple's company, though they are nothing like me, more. Make sense?

 

It's about being consistently true and loyal to who you are, your goals, principles, values and to that special person you are that sets you apart from everyone else.

 

Sometimes we are idealistic in our youth and that changes when reality hits us.

 

Is your friend bitter about the change or does it just upset you?

[marlena]

Is your friend bitter about the change or does it just upset you?

 

 

She issn't aware that she has changed so much. Not really although she does occassionally say, "I wasn't like this." But she is unhappy. It is plain for everyone to see. She hardly ever smiles anymore, seems always stressed and distressed, was on anti - depressants for a while, complains about not feeling fullfilled, often gets very aggressive. All in all, she's displaying a totally different personality and character. This is a person I have known all my life.

 

Ah, and don't get me wrong. Her husband is in many ways a nice guy. Just not right for her OR because she was such a free agent up until she was 36, she resents the loss of her freedom. Yes, this might be it. She will be the first to admit it, I think.

On a some level, she SEES the way that marriage has changed her and she doesn't like it. That's why she has become so defensive. Denial, I suppose.

 

I can't help thinking that if she were with someone she found more intellectually stimulating, then, she wouldn't feel so trapped in this marriage.