I am so lost

[heftysmurf]

Daughter making me sad today. I would hate to have half time with her but WOW I was horribly wronged. I never been so hurt in my life. Her and my future are in a big mosh pit in my head right now.

[reboot]

What was the primary motivator in you trying to work it out?

She was...

[heftysmurf]

I understand a lot more why this happened now than I ever did before. Just the visions and triggers are still overwhelming me. I think we could have a wonderful life but can I will myself through it. I am in some ways my biggest obstacle.

[blindsidedagain]

Primary motivator-

 

Well it is just easier for now from a practical point of view.

She lost her job, and mine is very unstable.

We have to find new jobs (which can take a considerable amount of time), and sell 2 properties to split.

I know it is not the right reason, but I have to stop kicking myself for doing this for the wrong reasons.

I am still very uncertain about the future and have huge doubts that it will work out.

It is too much for me to take on that mental load right now.

It will allow time for me to make the other decisions when my thinking is more stable.

Yesterday was a very bad day.

I had sooooooooo much anger.

I got a heavy bag and have been beating on it.

[Cobra_X30]

I understand a lot more why this happened now than I ever did before. Just the visions and triggers are still overwhelming me. I think we could have a wonderful life but can I will myself through it. I am in some ways my biggest obstacle.

 

If you have to will your way through it... then it isnt worth the effort!

 

The truth is that if you are the biggest obstacle, then you are not getting the support you need.

 

Get what you need or get out. It's that simple!

[reboot]

If you have to will your way through it... then it isnt worth the effort!

 

The truth is that if you are the biggest obstacle, then you are not getting the support you need.

 

Get what you need or get out. It's that simple!

See, I know exactly what he's talking about, and it's really not that simple. It's so easy to get betrayed by your own imagination. I'm a lot further removed from d-day than him, but it still happens. My wife is trying really, really hard, and mostly succeeding, in doing the things she needs to do, for me, for us. And still....

 

For example, if she goes to the grocery store and stays longer than I think she should, there I go. Imagination gone ape****, wondering, fretting, worrying. Is that her fault? Obviously it's her fault that I got that way in the first place, but since then she has given me absolutely no reason not to trust her. Since I chose to stay, can I continue to blame her for feelings she's trying to help me get past? Am I not being an obstacle?

 

"If A therefore B" works great in Geometry, not so much when dealing with human emotions. It isn't always black and white.

[heftysmurf]

She has been really nice and not getting too upset when I trigger. She washed my new linens in my bed, made dinner, wrote a nice note. Said she was sorry many times. Sent some nice emails today.

My feeling is like I went to a buffet and mine and her plates were knocked over. She gets another plate and sits down. I am told I must eat eveyting. I suppose I am still at the salad table.

This is still so new. I flood with emotions. I am dying for the moment of clarity of what to do. Keep trying to recover which is making some baby steps or let it all go and move on.

I understand that it is harder to recover and now I understand why. I just want to give this a best shot for my daughters sake and maybe I can get a little bit of happiness knowing I tried.

That is the thing, I feel bad for us reboot and all of the betrayed. I think in our attempts we have been rewired. Trust makes life easier because you do not have to expend energy to worry about things. This happens and wap. You second guess dwell think and obsess on every detail. I wonder when that drops a bit if ever.

[reboot]

I wonder when that drops a bit if ever.

It does. Eventually it fades. I'm not sure when, if ever, it goes away entirely.

[Cobra_X30]

See, I know exactly what he's talking about, and it's really not that simple. It's so easy to get betrayed by your own imagination. I'm a lot further removed from d-day than him, but it still happens. My wife is trying really, really hard, and mostly succeeding, in doing the things she needs to do, for me, for us. And still....

 

"If A therefore B" works great in Geometry, not so much when dealing with human emotions. It isn't always black and white.

 

Of course you know exactly what he is talking about! Similar situations and such.

 

You both lack the emotional distance that provides clarity! I lack proximity to tell the truth of your interactions. However, I feel reasonably certain that I am close.

 

Have you ever read Dante's Inferno? Does it strike you as odd that the lowest level of hell is held for the betrayers? It should not, because there are few acts more cowardly or disgusting. Like those who prey on the weak.

 

Listen! You need to struggle on your end to heal, but when progress is slow or too little, there is a problem. How hard we struggle shows how much we desire.

 

You feel that your job is not to punish. Yes, this is true. However redemption costs and it is not your debt to pay.

 

So, do you see my point? It's not about whether Hefty's wife is working to fix this. She can throw a little effort here and a little effort there and expect him to eventually get over it.

 

Tell you what... if you ever get to a point where your wife takes her time at the store, and you just dont give a s***. Then you understand.

[reboot]

So, do you see my point? It's not about whether Hefty's wife is working to fix this. She can throw a little effort here and a little effort there and expect him to eventually get over it.

Sure I see your point. And you're right, but...

 

I was merely pointing out that you can't state it for a fact that just because he's having these issues it automatically means his wife isn't doing her part. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. It's a hard thing to work through no matter how much ass kissing you get...

[heftysmurf]

I think you are right. Release is the key. Clarity comes from it. I want their now so I can figure out what to do.

[Cobra_X30]

I think you are right. Release is the key. Clarity comes from it. I want their now so I can figure out what to do.

 

When you release yourself of the guilt, and wash your hands of the blame, things will become more clear. Take responsibility only for your actions, and realize that you did not force anyone to do anything!

 

At some point

 

Sure I see your point. And you're right, but...

 

I was merely pointing out that you can't state it for a fact that just because he's having these issues it automatically means his wife isn't doing her part. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. It's a hard thing to work through no matter how much ass kissing you get...

 

Reboot, I know you see my point, just as I see yours.

 

I think we dissagree on approach. I think that when you cause damage to another, it's your responsibility to fix it. Thus if he is having issues, it's obvious he isnt getting what he needs to fix it.

 

Niether are you for that matter! No wall will hold without morter.

[heftysmurf]

I have never really blamed myself in any of this. She has not either. She never thought she could talk to me. Emotional attachment affair. Not love a filling in of a gap for her. Then hooked like an addict. I could have filled in the missing parts if she really would have spoke to me. I am not a mind reader and tried my best with the info I had. When I was away on business I bought her something from the cities I went to every time. I called her like mad. Went out with coworkers and NEVER hit on anybody. Would just look at the ring and pull back.

 

I am flattening today. Really feel the need for her to do something extra special when she gets home from work. I am not giving up but I feel myself letting go. I do not know where this will lead me.

[Ladyjane14]

For example, if she goes to the grocery store and stays longer than I think she should, there I go. Imagination gone ape****, wondering, fretting, worrying. Is that her fault? Obviously it's her fault that I got that way in the first place, but since then she has given me absolutely no reason not to trust her. Since I chose to stay, can I continue to blame her for feelings she's trying to help me get past? Am I not being an obstacle?

 

This is where "active trust" and the 'leap of faith' come in.

There comes a point where you have to recognize your fear, look it in the face, and tell it to 'get stuffed'.

 

This might be too early on for Heftysmurf, but 2+ years down the pike, it's something for you to think about, Reboot.

 

I spent hours upon hours, arguing back and forth with my stinkin' thinker... I mean, quite literally talking to myself. She'd call me a fool, tell me he wasn't the guy I thought I knew, that THIS was my chance to run, to do it while I could. She'd remind me how problematic the marriage had been for so many years, call me a doormat, question my ability to judge good character. She was RELENTLESS.

 

On the one hand, she's looking out for me... the voice of self-preservation and self-love. On the other... she's completely chickensh*t.

 

The one argument that she was confounded by though is this:

"What's he gonna do? ...hurt my FEELINGS??? :lmao:

 

Bwahahahaha.

Hell, he's already been there and done that! He hurt my feeling worse than I thought anyone could. But, here I am. Like NID said on the other thread, "still standing".

 

I can't control him. I can't guarantee that he'll never again form an emotional attachment to another woman, or that he won't jump up one day and decide to f*ck one. But if I live in fear of it... he might as well be doing it for all that. Same difference.

 

There comes a point at which the betrayed spouse has to climb out on that limb and ACCEPT the risks. We have no control over our mate's choices. The guarantee of yesterday was only an illusion. There were NEVER any guarantees and there still aren't.

 

But here's our armor... the knowledge that we're no longer innocent. The self-same thing that was our bane is now our comfort. Do you honestly believe your wife could ever carry out an adulterous affair behind your back again? Even without "checking", are you not aware of her in a way you never were before?

 

I don't need to "check" any more. I kicked the habit.

I've seen the monster. I know exactly what he looks like. Hell, I know what he smells like. He can NEVER hide from me again. And... I know how I'll handle him if needs ever be. So I don't have to cross that bridge unless I come to it.

 

"Cowards die many times before their deaths

The valiant never taste of death but once"

-Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

[heftysmurf]

Thank you for your words of wisdom. You are very wise and I really appreciate your insight. What is your story?

[norajane]

I have never really blamed myself in any of this. She has not either. She never thought she could talk to me. Emotional attachment affair. Not love a filling in of a gap for her. Then hooked like an addict. I could have filled in the missing parts if she really would have spoke to me. I am not a mind reader and tried my best with the info I had. When I was away on business I bought her something from the cities I went to every time. I called her like mad. Went out with coworkers and NEVER hit on anybody. Would just look at the ring and pull back.

 

Oh, so now the affair is all about her emotions? What happened to "it was just about the sex" and how he was so phenomenal in bed and you weren't?

[Ladyjane14]

What is your story?

 

None so bad as yours. We're talking EA, not PA... and I still managed to lose 20 pounds in a month on the "Infidelity Diet". Good news is that I've grown back all the hair I lost. I took it kind of hard to say the least.

 

My initial response was to go right to Plan D... divorce. I didn't ask for one, I demanded one. But that too, is a "knee-jerk" reaction, not so different than the urge to "fix it".

 

I've got to tell you... even though I really do understand WHY you're leaning toward reconciliation, if I had faced what you're facing now... he wouldn't have even felt the breeze until 5 minutes after I'd gone through the door.

That's me and not you though. You're made of sterner stuff than I, even just entertaining the prospect.

 

All that said, you're nowhere near ready to start talking about "leaps of faith" yet. That's for further on down the pike, once you've committed yourself to your course, and AFTER your wayward spouse has proved her work ethic.

 

But, just for the sake of knowing it's do-able... it's do-able. I'm currently married for 25 years, we've repaired the broken bits, and we're very happy together.

[reboot]

This is where "active trust" and the 'leap of faith' come in.

There comes a point where you have to recognize your fear, look it in the face, and tell it to 'get stuffed'.

 

This might be too early on for Heftysmurf, but 2+ years down the pike, it's something for you to think about, Reboot.

 

.....

 

"Cowards die many times before their deaths

The valiant never taste of death but once"

-Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

LJ,

 

You are right, I am well past the point a lot of these guys are at, where it's still fresh and they're still gibbering and drooling wondering what happened to their world. Some of the things I say probably make it sound worse than it is though. I don't sit around fretting all the time, I don't follow her everywhere she goes. Mostly it's just something or other now that triggers me and the thoughts come unbidden. I don't monitor her like I once did. Some of it has become almost a habit, like checking incoming and outgoing numbers on her cell, checking the voice mail occasionally.

 

This is the second such pep talk you've given me, and you know what? I think you're right, I think it's time. I think I hold onto some of this now just because I feel like I should. It's been over 2 years and there's been absolutely nothing that would give me any reason not to trust her.

 

I guess I've been waiting for some deus ex machina to come down from heaven, or maybe I've been looking for her to do something that just magically makes me trust again. But honestly, what more can she do? I can either choose to trust or choose to leave I guess.

 

It may take some effort to change the mindset, but my wife may soon owe you one. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom. You are the best.

 

And hefty, sorry for the threadjack.

[Ladyjane14]

Some of the things I say probably make it sound worse than it is though. I don't sit around fretting all the time...

 

I totally get what you're saying. In fact, I didn't think you were so bad off even as a guy tonguing a sore tooth. I got the feeling it's just something that you're wondering about every now and then.

[White Flower]

This is where "active trust" and the 'leap of faith' come in.

There comes a point where you have to recognize your fear, look it in the face, and tell it to 'get stuffed'.

 

This might be too early on for Heftysmurf, but 2+ years down the pike, it's something for you to think about, Reboot.

 

I spent hours upon hours, arguing back and forth with my stinkin' thinker... I mean, quite literally talking to myself. She'd call me a fool, tell me he wasn't the guy I thought I knew, that THIS was my chance to run, to do it while I could. She'd remind me how problematic the marriage had been for so many years, call me a doormat, question my ability to judge good character. She was RELENTLESS.

 

On the one hand, she's looking out for me... the voice of self-preservation and self-love. On the other... she's completely chickensh*t.

 

The one argument that she was confounded by though is this:

"What's he gonna do? ...hurt my FEELINGS??? :lmao:

 

Bwahahahaha.

Hell, he's already been there and done that! He hurt my feeling worse than I thought anyone could. But, here I am. Like NID said on the other thread, "still standing".

 

I can't control him. I can't guarantee that he'll never again form an emotional attachment to another woman, or that he won't jump up one day and decide to f*ck one. But if I live in fear of it... he might as well be doing it for all that. Same difference.

 

There comes a point at which the betrayed spouse has to climb out on that limb and ACCEPT the risks. We have no control over our mate's choices. The guarantee of yesterday was only an illusion. There were NEVER any guarantees and there still aren't.

 

But here's our armor... the knowledge that we're no longer innocent. The self-same thing that was our bane is now our comfort. Do you honestly believe your wife could ever carry out an adulterous affair behind your back again? Even without "checking", are you not aware of her in a way you never were before?

 

I don't need to "check" any more. I kicked the habit.

I've seen the monster. I know exactly what he looks like. Hell, I know what he smells like. He can NEVER hide from me again. And... I know how I'll handle him if needs ever be. So I don't have to cross that bridge unless I come to it.

 

"Cowards die many times before their deaths

The valiant never taste of death but once"

-Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

LadyJane,

Once again I am so impressed. I relate on so many levels, (but I know you can't relate to me on others.)

 

I was going to go on about the next phase I went through, but I don't think Hefty would benefit from all that knowledge about me at this point. But I will say that I'm happy his W is communicating finally and that he is allowing her to by making it safe. My H never made it safe for me to share my feelings and here we are today.

 

The main point I am posting this note is to say, yeah, you can drive yourself crazy by watching every move. I finally gave up checking on my H and found a wonderful freedom in that. It's just too bad I also fell out of love which had nothing to do with the freedom from the constant checking.

 

I have a co-worker who got a keylogger and learned her H's passwords to everything. He moved out and though they are separated and in MC, she is tired of checking on him. She says that it can really ruin your life and take up so much time. I had considered it with my H, but I would get addicted to it-it would consume me. Checking the cell phone bill was enough to drive me crazy and I gave it up for my sanity.

 

So, good luck, Reboot, with the watching and good luck to you Hefty with the communicating and the highs and lows.

[heftysmurf]

I did get f-d over BADLY. If it was not for my daughter I would have auto divorced no problem. The prospect of a weekend without my darling scares me. Since the time she was born I have spent a grand total of one night away from her. She is the reason I am trying.

I gained a lot of clarity today when I let go. It has opened me to bettering myself and my daughter and has given me the skeleton of a road map on where to go from here. I need to find my happiness for not only mine but her sake. I will be a terrible father if I am unhappy.

Separation is in the back of my mind constantly and my wife nows it. She has a VERY SMALL window to fix this and I am not going to impede her attempts. I will encourage her to make right this terrible wrong. I just hope she really understands what she has done and what kind of man I am to even try. I am a better man than even I thought I was.

[norajane]

Separation is in the back of my mind constantly and my wife nows it. She has a VERY SMALL window to fix this and I am not going to impede her attempts. I will encourage her to make right this terrible wrong. I just hope she really understands what she has done and what kind of man I am to even try. I am a better man than even I thought I was.

 

Do you really understand what she has done? I posted on the previous page because I was startled to see that she has flipped her story around suddenly - now she's saying it was all about emotional attachment because you weren't 'filling the gaps' at home, whereas earlier it was 'just sex' because you weren't good enough in bed. Which is the 'true' version of events?

 

It still sounds like she thinks (or is it you that believe?) that YOU were responsible for her having an affair. This is a COPOUT. An affair is the way she chose to handle her marital unhappiness. There may have been some issues she was unhappy about, but working on them with you would have been a much healthier, much kinder, and much more productive and much less damaging way to handle the problems.

 

Choosing an affair instead of dealing with the problems is not only deceptive and cruel, but it's also a huge red flag that your wife is a conflict avoider who prefers to paper things over rather than doing the hard work required to resolve issues. Carrying on that affair for five long years, during and after having a child with you...well, that goes far beyond some emotional 'gaps' and 'just sex'. She had 5 years to address those issues, and instead, she chose not to and instead chose to deceive both you and her best friend. She chose to heap mountains of pain upon you both, to spare herself the hard work of facing your marital issues...IF there really were marital issues and she isn't actually pulling those issues out of her ass now to make herself seem less cold and heartless.

 

This 5 year long affair speaks to her core character. Do you think she understands that about herself? Is she in individual counseling to identify and address her character weaknesses? Does she even admit to any character weaknesses?

 

I know you desperately want to hold things together for the sake of your daughter, but don't sell your own needs short. You don't have to be a martyr in order to maintain a solid relationship with your daughter.

[heftysmurf]

I came to a big realization today too. My issues that may have contributed to the affair were actually caused by the affair. I spoke to her on this and it hit her like a ton of bricks. Most the time I was the instigator of sex. I felt rejected.

 

Those are great questions Norajane. I will dig more and find out.

 

She is to start IC soon (not soon enough, she needed it many years ago).

[heftysmurf]

I am trying just for my daughters sake. I want her to know I tried for her. I owe her that. This may fail. I realize that every minute. I feel I take steps forward and back and do not even know where the starting line is. I just know when the steps get stuck on one side or the other it will be the time to decide how to continue.

[Darth Vader]

I came to a big realization today too. My issues that may have contributed to the affair were actually caused by the affair. I spoke to her on this and it hit her like a ton of bricks. Most the time I was the instigator of sex. I felt rejected.

 

Those are great questions Norajane. I will dig more and find out.

 

She is to start IC soon (not soon enough, she needed it many years ago).

 

 

It hit her, because she was throwing BULLCRAP at you, and you shoved it in her face! Another words, You called her on it! She knows she's been exposed for her fault about the affair! And she doesn't like it!