Why does Satan work for God?

[disgracian]

Do you realize that we were given the gift of freewill because of Satan and his influence? Frewill would never have existed without the presence of Satan.

Either this universe permits free will or it doesn't. Satan either rebelled because of that free will or because God made him do it (which makes rebellion a rather murky concept), but one cannot lead to the other.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

lonelybird, you are not helping your cause any by making such posts. When trying to convince a non-believer or a non-Christian, you need to approach them with something other than "it is in us". Perhaps you should look into Christian apologetics...it may give you some tools with which to discuss this topic.

 

You may have more success...

I don't have to prepare, Lord told us so, and if needed, holy Spirit will lead what we say, holy spirit knows how to talk to people's heart:love:, we don't do convert, holy spirit does, well, of course to those open heart. if you need prove of this world, you will never get it

[Ocean-Blue]

I don't have to prepare, Lord told us so, and if needed, holy Spirit will lead what we say, holy spirit knows how to talk to people's heart:love:, we don't do convert, holy spirit does, well, of course to those open heart. if you need prove of this world, you will never get it

 

Dear, dear lonely! You are missing my point. I'm not questioning your faith... What I'm saying is that you can't approach the subject the way you are (with such a personal, emotional slant) when speaking to a non-Christian. You might as well be speaking a foreign language.

 

If you sincerely wish to engage in discourse of this nature, you gotta take a different approach.

[lonelybird]

Dear, dear lonely! You are missing my point. I'm not questioning your faith... What I'm saying is that you can't approach the subject the way you are (with such a personal, emotional slant) when speaking to a non-Christian. You might as well be speaking a foreign language.

 

If you sincerely wish to engage in discourse of this nature, you gotta take a different approach.

blue blue blue, you didn't get it. our method seems foolish in this world, but that is the way kingdom does, all about heart. words of God can enter their heart if they open it

[disgracian]

Considering that you're trying to bring this message to the world, it might do you good to present it in a slightly less foolish way. I think that is what Ocean-Blue is getting at.

 

As I said earlier though, I'm quite happy for you to continue your current approach.

 

Cheers,

D.

[lonelybird]

Considering that you're trying to bring this message to the world, it might do you good to present it in a slightly less foolish way. I think that is what Ocean-Blue is getting at.

 

As I said earlier though, I'm quite happy for you to continue your current approach.

 

Cheers,

D.

how sarcastic your comment! killing tongues. anyway do whatever you think can make you happy: insult, sarcastic....ridicule

[Ocean-Blue]

blue blue blue, you didn't get it. our method seems foolish in this world, but that is the way kingdom does, all about heart. words of God can enter their heart if they open it

 

lonely, I was hoping to have an interesting exchange with you. Sadly, I don't think that is possible.

 

You are determined to have this lovely discussion in a language that I simply do not understand (considering the nature of the topic). You speak through emotion and a false sense of inherent knowledge. It is a mode that not only adds credence to what I've been saying but it also startles me into the realization that pursing this particular line of discussion with you is futile.

 

I'll stop there.

[lonelybird]

It is a mode that not only adds credence to what I've been saying but it also startles me into the realization that pursing this particular line of discussion with you is futile.

 

I'll stop there.

me too..............

[Pyro]

Either this universe permits free will or it doesn't. Satan either rebelled because of that free will or because God made him do it (which makes rebellion a rather murky concept), but one cannot lead to the other.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Satan did rebell because of freewill, but freewill would have never existed here on earth if the original sin had never ocurred.

 

Just out of curiosity, are you Rooster Dar? He always ends his posts with "cheers" and both of you share the same beliefs.

[lindya]

The second is that Satan isn't working for god at all, but working against him, and while he is in charge in Hell, he was cast there and is having a horrible time of it also. Satan torments people because we are god's favorites, and if by making things tough for us he hopes to hurt god in some way.

 

As always, I think the bible is full of metaphors and little messages about human nature and outcomes of certain thinking/behaviour - some of which do reflect life. In the way that I see it, anyway.

 

The notion of Satan demonstrates what happens when fortunate individuals let pride in their own good fortune run out of control. How, in extreme circumstances, the resulting ego-mania can result in them developing hair-brained plans of domination, doing stupid things and eventually losing their status. Never learning to accept, as they wade bitterly through the deitrus of who they once were, that what happened was their own fault.

 

Satan stamps around in hell bitching about how his ex boss at FSHG was threatened by talent and that's why he decided to get rid of his number one employee Satan. He won't contemplate the possibility that God fired him because he'd become an irritating prick. Now and again, a caged, tormented soul will suggest as much, and get speared continuously by Satan's red hot trident. Satan then swears to turn his own corporation into a super-power that can mount a successful hostile takeover of FSHG Ltd.

 

I wonder why Satan, who was once an angel and has seen god first-hand, and lived in Heaven before is such a retard that he forgot what that was like, forgot that god is all-powerful, and somehow thinks that he will win in a fight against him.

 

Ego and anger can overcome rationality, so that people become convinced they can take on impossible odds...and they become so obsessed by the notion of winning that they don't notice the extent to which they're self-destructing.

 

Not only that, but god created Satan, and he was the most perfect of the angels. God must have known that Satan wold betray him, right? Also, does Satan have free will? Could Satan become good if he wanted?

 

Perhaps a skilled counsellor could help to gently break down Satan's ego defences. Help him to rebalance. In a safe environment (eg padded cell & strait-jacket) work with him to rediscover and nurture the positive attributes that resulted in him having been the most perfect angel at one stage. Assist him in finding ways to counteract the tendency towards egomania and psychosis. Possibly enlist the aid of a psychiatrist to prescribe suitable medication.

[disgracian]

Satan did rebell because of freewill, but freewill would have never existed here on earth if the original sin had never ocurred.

So free will existed, then that is all that is needed. Creatures with minds that can imagine anything can exercise free will. It wouldn't matter whether Satan existed or not. The result is that there must be another explanation for why the Prince of Lies is allowed to run rampant. Can you think what it might be?

Just out of curiosity, are you Rooster Dar? He always ends his posts with "cheers" and both of you share the same beliefs.

I can't speak for Rooster, but I only ever have one account per forum.

 

Cheers,

(R?)D.

[Moose]

I'd really like to know what motivates such unshakable belief in something that cannot be empirically shown to be true, and can quite easily shown to be false.

You CANNOT prove my belief, (or anybody else's) is false........

[Storyrider]

Perhaps a skilled counsellor could help to gently break down Satan's ego defences. Help him to rebalance. In a safe environment (eg padded cell & strait-jacket) work with him to rediscover and nurture the positive attributes that resulted in him having been the most perfect angel at one stage. Assist him in finding ways to counteract the tendency towards egomania and psychosis. Possibly enlist the aid of a psychiatrist to prescribe suitable medication.

 

:lmao: Do you think Satan needs to fix his serotonin reuptake? I'm not sure any medication will be effective until he faces his repressed anger. (Wow, if this is the repressed Satan, I'm afraid to witness the Satan who is in touch with himself.) It is almost certain he has wanted to kill his Father since day one. However, whether his anger can be traced to any anal or oral fixations is still unclear.

[quankanne]

I dunno, Story – is there a biochemical prescription for vanity?

 

So no matter how much evidence to the contrary was gathered, you would never drop this belief? What, then, is its basis? That it was written in a book somewhere? I'd really like to know what motivates such unshakable belief in something that cannot be empirically shown to be true, and can quite easily shown to be false.

 

sorry, D, it probably will always come down to this, with me: I believe, because my faith is God's gift to me. I often don't have "fact" to support my belief, but then again, I don't need "proof" of something that works for me, I just accept that it does (crediting Roy Bragg here). And I completely understand how that baffles people, because sometimes, I frustrate myself trying to make the equation "work." All these thought-provoking posts y'all post actually reinforce my faith, because even though I can't come up with diddly when explaining why, I know that this faith is secure, and that's all that matters (in my life) when it comes down to base.

 

That makes it sound like a symbolic gesture, so why the need to believe that the cracker somehow becomes the literal body of somebody who died and left this earth two thousand years ago?

 

because I'm Catholic, not Protestant – they're the ones who accept the mere symbolism of the Eucharist

 

and for someone who believes in the true Presence, there's a certain sense of assurance knowing that that Christ is here, right now, and that he's as just as real as he was when he appeared to those people nearly 2,000 years ago.

[Yosef]

Yeah, I've always believed the cracker and wine to be a symbol, not a literal embodiment. I won't ever question why people would believe that it was an actual embodiment, because it's not my business to judge.

 

So no matter how much evidence to the contrary was gathered, you would never drop this belief?

 

No, unless God told me himself, but if he told me, there would actually be a God, disproving the evidence against him.

 

What, then, is its basis? That it was written in a book somewhere?

 

Christianity isn't based on the Bible. The Bible is merely a record of what God has done, said, and the people whom God spoke through, which has helped preserve Christianity, not bring it into existance. After all, Christianity came before the Bible, the Bible was born from Christianity.

 

I'd really like to know what motivates such unshakable belief in something that cannot be empirically shown to be true, and can quite easily shown to be false.

 

As Moose stated, you CANNOT disprove someone's faith. It cannot scientifically be proven true, but it cannot be proven to be false, either.

[Pyro]

So free will existed, then that is all that is needed. Creatures with minds that can imagine anything can exercise free will. It wouldn't matter whether Satan existed or not. The result is that there must be another explanation for why the Prince of Lies is allowed to run rampant. Can you think what it might be?

 

I can't speak for Rooster, but I only ever have one account per forum.

 

Cheers,

(R?)D.

 

I already explained to you what my opinions are on this matter. Go back and re-read them.

 

The only other thing that I have to contribute to this thread is that I agree with posts 87 and 89.

[disgracian]

Apologies in advance if these questions annoy you, if so feel free not to answer them.

 

While I know that facts and empirical proof are not the basis of your beliefs, you say that they "work" for you. I'm interested to know in what way, and if you've sought other alternatives to see if they work even better. I don't know that I personally could benefit from a belief that I don't understand, can't explain and have no proof for. For me there has to be some connection to reality so that I know I'm not just making stuff up.

and for someone who believes in the true Presence, there's a certain sense of assurance knowing that that Christ is here, right now, and that he's as just as real as he was when he appeared to those people nearly 2,000 years ago.

Except that you're eating him. You don't find that the least bit creepy?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Pyro]

Apologies in advance if these questions annoy you, if so feel free not to answer them.

 

While I know that facts and empirical proof are not the basis of your beliefs, you say that they "work" for you. I'm interested to know in what way, and if you've sought other alternatives to see if they work even better. I don't know that I personally could benefit from a belief that I don't understand, can't explain and have no proof for. For me there has to be some connection to reality so that I know I'm not just making stuff up.

 

I don't need to sought other alternatives because in my heart I know that my beliefs are right for me. I am happy with the road I have chosen. My faith has helped bring the best out of me.

[Trialbyfire]

Apologies in advance if my understanding of the way this works is incorrect.

 

As I understand it, most christians believe you have two options upon death:

 

1) You follow god's rules in life and you get rewarded with a place in heaven.

 

2) You don't follow god's rules and he sends you to hell to be tortured by satan and his demons forever.

 

The question:

 

Why would satan say, "Ok god, send all the non-religious to me and I'll torture them for disobeying you"

I haven't read the entire thread but why wouldn't Satan make hell a great place to spend eternity? It would make one hell...uva' infomercial...

 

For 400 easy payments of sinful actions, you can live forever in the decadence of your choice. COD or Credit Card payments are not accepted.

[disgracian]

Christianity isn't based on the Bible. The Bible is merely a record of what God has done, said, and the people whom God spoke through, which has helped preserve Christianity, not bring it into existance. After all, Christianity came before the Bible, the Bible was born from Christianity.

So, what then is its basis? That was the original question.

As Moose stated, you CANNOT disprove someone's faith. It cannot scientifically be proven true, but it cannot be proven to be false, either.

If we can examine the cracker and see that it remains a cracker, and has not magically transformed into human flesh then it can indeed be proven false. That's why it's safer to stay within the realms of symbolism and allegory.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

I already explained to you what my opinions are on this matter. Go back and re-read them.

Yes, I'm already familiar with it and we've moved past that. I've presented a counter-argument to your opinion, so telling me to reread what I have already challenged isn't very useful to the discussion.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Pyro]

I haven't read the entire thread but why wouldn't Satan make hell a great place to spend eternity? It would make one hell...uva' infomercial...

 

For 400 easy payments of sinful actions, you can live forever in the decadence of your choice. COD or Credit Card payments are not accepted.

 

:lmao:

 

Make sure the infomercial includes pictures of the members sitting out getting a tan and include some of the famous individuals that you can meet and greet with.

[Pyro]

Yes, I'm already familiar with it and we've moved past that. I've presented a counter-argument to your opinion, so telling me to reread what I have already challenged isn't very useful to the discussion.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

God tests us and putting an evil influence out there to try and tempt us to bash the name of God is one of his ways of testing our faith to him.

[Trialbyfire]

:lmao:

 

Make sure the infomercial includes pictures of the members sitting out getting a tan and include some of the famous individuals that you can meet and greet with.

Haha...drinks with little umbrellas, sipping poolside with the Stars!!

[Pyro]

Haha...drinks with little umbrellas, sipping poolside with the Stars!!

 

No pool in hell. Just desert.