She left him

[reboot]

And I am not an "angry BS" and haven't acted like I was. *shrug*

[Virgo1982]

If the two of you will go back and read, you'll see I prefaced everything I said with "I think" and "in my opinion" which is simply based on my experiences in life. I was in no way insinuating any kind of scientific evidence or statistics. Whether you choose to accept it or not, everyone here is allowed to have an opinion, even if it doesn't match yours.

 

We know, but do you? Why are you so angry? People challenge you when you can't accept that all situations are not the same. Could you imagine if the answer to every case of infidelity was to divorce or every "couple" who made a baby got married? I could go on and on, but if you would tone down your opinion and tailor it to specific situations using logic, no one would challenge you- I know I wouldn't. If you truly have a problem with your ideas being challenged, maybe a forum is not the best place for you.

[Virgo1982]

And I am not an "angry BS" and haven't acted like I was. *shrug*

 

I didn't say you were, but in my experience angry BS are typically hostile toward OW and vice versa-name calling and heckling usually occurs.

 

I'm not going to debate to win against her. If she has something valid to say, I'll acknowledge it. If she doesn't, I'll challenge her, laugh at her, or ignore her.

 

For example, pretty soon I'll be moving on because we're not even addressing the topic anymore.

[reboot]

I started off agreeing with something TC said, and making a side point. Obviously that was a stupid thing to do. Some of you look for a fight in everything. Whatever gets you through the day.

[Tomcat33]

Oh c'mon Reboot I was not picking a fight with you, I am genuinely interested in knowing if the statement you made was based on more than just your existential experience. You are a guy too so I value your point of view, it is better than having women telling us how guys feel all the time.

Sorry if you thought I was trying to start something I wasn't, I just really wanna know how you decided that men tend to cheat for sex that's all.

Reason I said hollywood and your group of friends is because let's face it a lot of our influences do come from the crap we have seen on tv or movies and what we experience in our social networks.

 

I had many misconceptions about infidelity and the dynamic of marriage and infidelity until I was involved in a situation that hit home and that opened up a whole new world of knowledge for me. I had never read up on infidelity or anything of the sort why would I had no reason to so I was pretty ignorant to it until it happened to me, late in life I was invloved wth it and after what I've read and what I have seen around here my views have changed. That's why I was asking what your influences are for your opinions, just curious.

[Virgo1982]

I had many misconceptions about infidelity and the dynamic of marriage and infidelity until I was involved in a situation that hit home and that opened up a whole new world of knowledge for me.

 

I have to agree with you there TomCat. I don't see myself getting involved in another affair, but I don't regret the experience because I learned so much from it.

[nadiaj2727]

TomCat--

I had many misconceptions about infidelity and the dynamic of marriage and infidelity until I was involved in a situation that hit home and that opened up a whole new world of knowledge for me.

 

So true -- how can we learn from our experiences if we've never had the experience? That's the one good thing my affair gave me... it opened up to me a world of marriage, divorce, affairs that I had never before had the opportunity to ponder. I've learned so much now that I'll keep with me in the future.

[bish]

I have to agree with you there TomCat. I don't see myself getting involved in another affair, but I don't regret the experience because I learned so much from it.

 

Such as?????

[Virgo1982]

Such as?????

 

 

Why are you asking me this?

[reboot]

Sorry if you thought I was trying to start something I wasn't, I just really wanna know how you decided that men tend to cheat for sex that's all.

Ok, fair enough.

 

Once upon a time I worked for this very large international company. You would recognize it if I said the name, but I prefer not to. If someone I know well happened across this they might put two and two together with some of my other posts....

 

Anyway, there were lots of people that worked at the particular set of offices where I was located, five or six hundred at least. It was literally Peyton Place and there were affairs going on all over the place. Or at least it sure seemed that way to naive little old me. A lot of it was obvious, plus guys like to brag. I wouldn't call all the MM I knew there "friends", but they were people I interacted with daily, and I was at least "friendly" with many of them.

 

There were a lot of single people there that did the Friday night after work thing at a nearby watering hole (and sometimes not just Friday nights), and I was there a lot. And there was always a goodly number of married people there, sans spouses. After a few drinks, they were always crawling all over someone.

 

I worked there quite a few years, and did became friends with some of these married guys. This one, I'll call him D, had an incredible hottie for a wife. I met her several times. She was bright, and funny, and could have been in a Playboy magazine. D never complained about her, never called her a bitch, never said she wouldn't sleep with him, and yet D cheated on her like she was a dog. This guy, and a lot of the others, weren't having emotional affairs. They were simply getting some on the side. Their partners changed way too frequently to imagine there was much in the way of emotions involved.

 

This other (married) guy got fired when the President of the company walked by his car in the parking lot and saw him getting a bj from a (also married) woman that worked there too.

 

There was another one that was doing four different women, all of whom thought they were the only one he was having an affair with. Somehow they found out about each other. He also had to leave the company (probably in fear of his life ).

 

And, to be fair, they weren't all like that. Another guy I got close to, his wife, according to him (and I met her too and I believe what he said), treated him like crap, refused him sex, yada yada, and he ended up having an affair, and fell in love with the girl and divorced his wife. The OW wouldn't do the same thing. Poor guy got his heart broken twice.

 

Heck, it wasn't just guys. I got propositioned several times by married women. One even offered to crawl under my desk one day. (I had a private office)

 

Funny story, one night at this same bar, my future wife, who also hung out there sometimes, and this was not only before we were married, but before we even had anything going on, we just barely knew each other, she pretended to be my girlfriend (at my request) to help me get this one particularly pushy married woman to leave me alone. I didn't want to be ugly, and a friendly "maybe if you weren't married" wasn't deterring her (one too many drinks I guess). I would be busted if my wife ever happened to read this now, it was kinda what started things between us.

 

Honestly, I can't give you any specific numbers, but it was a lot more than the 5 you mentioned. Good enough?

[Virgo1982]

I believe I have been very objective, as much as my belief system will allow. Even before Mr. Messy Pants cheated, I believed, and still do that cheating is wrong and a sin. I have not been bitter toward anyone on this site, because I have no right to judge your actions. But I do have a right to my belief system just as you do. I don't believe that I have to consider the reasons behind the affairs, as they all have the same result lies and deceit for someone or a lot of someones. When my children were younger and tried to explain to me why they did something that they knew was wrong, I let them get it off their chest and then I explained about personal responsibility to one's self and to society. You can't do things because they feel good at the time and believe that it doesn't effect you and someone else. We are all connected to each other. Even when you don't think anyone is watching or that they don't care what you are doing, their is someone watching who needs to see you do the right thing.

 

After the talk, the consequences are dispensed. They still make bad choices, but now they know that there are consequences to everything we do, good or bad.

 

And since there are no children here, I can only mother the best way I know how. That is to tell you about the other side(without anger or bitterness), tell you that there are blessings that belong only to you, and pray that you aren't hurt, disrespected, or scarred too much. That you grow from your experiences and that you realize that you are worth so much more than a cheating,lying, disrespecting Mr. Messy Pants.

 

I may have reason to be bitter. But I am not. I am hurt and a little battle weary, but I am blessed beyond my wildest dreams and I know that for every door that is closed a window opens. I wouldn't be where I am now, if they hadn't had an affair:), and they wouldn't be where they are now if they hadn't had an affair.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for leveling with me

[Virgo1982]

Ok, fair enough.

 

Once upon a time I worked for this very large international company. You would recognize it if I said the name, but I prefer not to. If someone I know well happened across this they might put two and two together with some of my other posts....

 

Anyway, there were lots of people that worked at the particular set of offices where I was located, five or six hundred at least. It was literally Peyton Place and there were affairs going on all over the place. Or at least it sure seemed that way to naive little old me. A lot of it was obvious, plus guys like to brag. I wouldn't call all the MM I knew there "friends", but they were people I interacted with daily, and I was at least "friendly" with many of them.

 

There were a lot of single people there that did the Friday night after work thing at a nearby watering hole (and sometimes not just Friday nights), and I was there a lot. And there was always a goodly number of married people there, sans spouses. After a few drinks, they were always crawling all over someone.

 

I worked there quite a few years, and did became friends with some of these married guys. This one, I'll call him D, had an incredible hottie for a wife. I met her several times. She was bright, and funny, and could have been in a Playboy magazine. D never complained about her, never called her a bitch, never said she wouldn't sleep with him, and yet D cheated on her like she was a dog. This guy, and a lot of the others, weren't having emotional affairs. They were simply getting some on the side. Their partners changed way too frequently to imagine there was much in the way of emotions involved.

 

This other (married) guy got fired when the President of the company walked by his car in the parking lot and saw him getting a bj from a (also married) woman that worked there too.

 

There was another one that was doing four different women, all of whom thought they were the only one he was having an affair with. Somehow they found out about each other. He also had to leave the company (probably in fear of his life ).

 

And, to be fair, they weren't all like that. Another guy I got close to, his wife, according to him (and I met her too and I believe what he said), treated him like crap, refused him sex, yada yada, and he ended up having an affair, and fell in love with the girl and divorced his wife. The OW wouldn't do the same thing. Poor guy got his heart broken twice.

 

Heck, it wasn't just guys. I got propositioned several times by married women. One even offered to crawl under my desk one day. (I had a private office)

 

Funny story, one night at this same bar, my future wife, who also hung out there sometimes, and this was not only before we were married, but before we even had anything going on, we just barely knew each other, she pretended to be my girlfriend (at my request) to help me get this one particularly pushy married woman to leave me alone. I didn't want to be ugly, and a friendly "maybe if you weren't married" wasn't deterring her (one too many drinks I guess). I would be busted if my wife ever happened to read this now, it was kinda what started things between us.

 

Honestly, I can't give you any specific numbers, but it was a lot more than the 5 you mentioned. Good enough?

 

I said something about that a while ago. Women choosing to either stay in the M or leaving the M and dropping the OM like a bad habit. You have a different perspective because of what you've seen. Your job sounds like one big orgy! Ewwww.

 

I still have faith in M and pray that my H will feel the same way. According to my fellow LoveShackers, that is unlikely. Guess I'll just have to roll my sleeves up...

 

You hate to bring up the topic of M too soon, but you have to these days. What are your views on this and that? What makes a good relationship? etc.

[NoIDidn't]

reboot

 

I got what you were saying. Its just that ANY emotion is a good reason for some to have an A. Some people really have no gauge for real love and think that the attention of one that is supposed to be giving it to their spouse if a good thing - like it proves something positive.

 

I won't go as far as to say that men have As for sex only, but let's face it - a lot do. My dad is a serial cheater. He has stopped, but still is the same needy person - just he feels he's too old for the games that he was playing. Yes, he said they were games. Many of those women thought that he loved them because of how sweet his words and actions seemed. But not many of them ever seemed to get that he was seeing them for reasons that were emotional but not positive. Just self-destructive emotions.

[Virgo1982]

This site is sort of like Marriage Builders...

 

http://www.affairrecovery.com/5-types

[Babybird]

I don't believe she's saying anything about them leaving their wives-Just that they want attention, affection, and intimacy from the OW. It's impossible to get it if you don't give it, which is why OW feel the way they feel about the MM.

 

I think MW are worse than MM in some cases. They use the OM to exit the M and tell them they need space as soon as they leave many times.

 

Absolutely. My MM said he never actually felt like she loved him. Even today he is amazed that I hold his hand, kiss him, rub his neck, tell him I love him. Their 'lovemaking' consisted of absolutely no kissing or foreplay and when she was finished he was expected to go away. There was no intimacy in their M. Its actually quite pathetic.

[Virgo1982]

Absolutely. My MM said he never actually felt like she loved him. Even today he is amazed that I hold his hand, kiss him, rub his neck, tell him I love him. Their 'lovemaking' consisted of absolutely no kissing or foreplay and when she was finished he was expected to go away. There was no intimacy in their M. Its actually quite pathetic.

 

If what he's saying is in fact true, I wonder how she'd react if she found out about the affair.

 

Life is crazy.

[Babybird]

I said something about that a while ago. Women choosing to either stay in the M or leaving the M and dropping the OM like a bad habit. You have a different perspective because of what you've seen. Your job sounds like one big orgy! Ewwww.

 

I still have faith in M and pray that my H will feel the same way. According to my fellow LoveShackers, that is unlikely. Guess I'll just have to roll my sleeves up...

 

You hate to bring up the topic of M too soon, but you have to these days. What are your views on this and that? What makes a good relationship? etc.

 

Hopefully, your M works out for you. I know just as many M couples that have survived an A as have D because of one. There was a post the other day(I didn't read all of it) that was talking about how there is so much talk of the MM cheating on the OW when they hook up and he's a POS but not from the other point of view. If all men, and I don't agree with this, are serial cheaters and its preached here over and over again to the BS then why isn't it preached to BS?

[Babybird]

If what he's saying is in fact true, I wonder how she'd react if she found out about the affair.

 

Life is crazy.

 

Actually, she left him because she was having an A. This sounds to me like a women doing her 'wifely duties' but not wanting to. This was almost 6 months ago. Her OM now lives in the house with her.

[Babybird]

Hopefully, your M works out for you. I know just as many M couples that have survived an A as have D because of one. There was a post the other day(I didn't read all of it) that was talking about how there is so much talk of the MM cheating on the OW when they hook up and he's a POS but not from the other point of view. If all men, and I don't agree with this, are serial cheaters and its preached here over and over again to the BS then why isn't it preached to BS?

 

Oops I meant preached to the OW than why isn't it preached to the BS?

[NoIDidn't]

Oops I meant preached to the OW than why isn't it preached to the BS?

 

It is. But usually an OW posts how she's not his first A. A BW may not *admit* that she knows about others until she has posted for a while.

 

I happen not to believe that a man that cheats in one R will always cheat in another. It really depends on the guy's character (and what is posted about his character by the woman talking about him). So I tend not to say the "if he did it with you, he'll do it to you" stuff.

 

BUT

 

I am not one to jump into a R with a man that is ending a R (of any type) too soon, either. Not because of the cheating factor, but because I don't want to hear about the woman that he is leaving in such a raw way. Call me selfish, but I am not about to mold myself into something that ease's his pain yet causes me to be untrue to my own self.

[Babybird]

I am not one to jump into a R with a man that is ending a R (of any type) too soon, either. Not because of the cheating factor, but because I don't want to hear about the woman that he is leaving in such a raw way. Call me selfish, but I am not about to mold myself into something that ease's his pain yet causes me to be untrue to my own self.

 

Wow! I wish I would've read that 6 months ago. I wanted to be there for my MM so badly. I did feel like I was betraying myself when he talked about her and the M because I was so damn happy it ended. I wanted to smack him and say "this is what we've wanted for the past year. Snap out of it. You should be happy". This sunk in a couple of weeks later after the shock wore off. Anyways, jumping from one R to another never gives you a chance to grieve, or heal. I think thats why rebounds fail so miserably. Hopefully, this doesn't happen to my R!!

[Virgo1982]

Actually, she left him because she was having an A. This sounds to me like a women doing her 'wifely duties' but not wanting to. This was almost 6 months ago. Her OM now lives in the house with her.

 

Whew (Virgo wipes forehead) I thought she would start going on a rampage... I wouldn't have been able to take it.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow! I wish I would've read that 6 months ago. I wanted to be there for my MM so badly. I did feel like I was betraying myself when he talked about her and the M because I was so damn happy it ended. I wanted to smack him and say "this is what we've wanted for the past year. Snap out of it. You should be happy". This sunk in a couple of weeks later after the shock wore off. Anyways, jumping from one R to another never gives you a chance to grieve, or heal. I think thats why rebounds fail so miserably. Hopefully, this doesn't happen to my R!!

 

I remember your story well. I felt you were in a precarious position then, even though I responded to you very differently then vs. now. I just couldn't do it. I am selfish that way. But I think that my R with a man should be based on my merits as a partner and not the problems he had with another. I want to benefit from his introspection. Not be there to hear all of it. Been there, done that.

 

The worse part for me, if I were in your sitch, is that I would eventually ask for some space because I wouldn't be able to deal with the intensity of his hurt (and don't feel I should have to) and have to hear about it all the time. That's the role of a therapist. Not of a new partner/love interest.

[Tomcat33]

Ok, fair enough.

 

Once upon a time I worked for this very large international company. You would recognize it if I said the name, but I prefer not to. If someone I know well happened across this they might put two and two together with some of my other posts....

 

Anyway, there were lots of people that worked at the particular set of offices where I was located, five or six hundred at least. It was literally Peyton Place and there were affairs going on all over the place. Or at least it sure seemed that way to naive little old me. A lot of it was obvious, plus guys like to brag. I wouldn't call all the MM I knew there "friends", but they were people I interacted with daily, and I was at least "friendly" with many of them.

 

There were a lot of single people there that did the Friday night after work thing at a nearby watering hole (and sometimes not just Friday nights), and I was there a lot. And there was always a goodly number of married people there, sans spouses. After a few drinks, they were always crawling all over someone.

 

I worked there quite a few years, and did became friends with some of these married guys. This one, I'll call him D, had an incredible hottie for a wife. I met her several times. She was bright, and funny, and could have been in a Playboy magazine. D never complained about her, never called her a bitch, never said she wouldn't sleep with him, and yet D cheated on her like she was a dog. This guy, and a lot of the others, weren't having emotional affairs. They were simply getting some on the side. Their partners changed way too frequently to imagine there was much in the way of emotions involved.

 

This other (married) guy got fired when the President of the company walked by his car in the parking lot and saw him getting a bj from a (also married) woman that worked there too.

 

There was another one that was doing four different women, all of whom thought they were the only one he was having an affair with. Somehow they found out about each other. He also had to leave the company (probably in fear of his life ).

 

And, to be fair, they weren't all like that. Another guy I got close to, his wife, according to him (and I met her too and I believe what he said), treated him like crap, refused him sex, yada yada, and he ended up having an affair, and fell in love with the girl and divorced his wife. The OW wouldn't do the same thing. Poor guy got his heart broken twice.

 

Heck, it wasn't just guys. I got propositioned several times by married women. One even offered to crawl under my desk one day. (I had a private office)

 

Funny story, one night at this same bar, my future wife, who also hung out there sometimes, and this was not only before we were married, but before we even had anything going on, we just barely knew each other, she pretended to be my girlfriend (at my request) to help me get this one particularly pushy married woman to leave me alone. I didn't want to be ugly, and a friendly "maybe if you weren't married" wasn't deterring her (one too many drinks I guess). I would be busted if my wife ever happened to read this now, it was kinda what started things between us.

 

Honestly, I can't give you any specific numbers, but it was a lot more than the 5 you mentioned. Good enough?

 

Wow Reboot those are some stories you just shared with us and I can absolutely see why you would conclude that men cheat for sex, given what you have seen around you. I can appreciate your view better now given what you just told us. Thanks for sharing that.

 

I think that there is a lof of that out theret, of course there is. But the type of environment that you described seems to go hand in hand with people who are going to be promiscuous marriage or no marriage. My ex fiance, who also cheated on me worked for a company that did a lot of what you described, all their after work team meetings at bars and all the late nights of coworkers hanging out at the city's happening watering holes is bound to breed that type of lifestyle. I saw the types of men my ex would go to the afterwork gatherings at the time and they were exactly what you just described and even though they were single I could bet that now if married they are having the exact "boys club" mentality after years of being out of the young and willd phase.

 

I always had a problem with my guy haning out at these places week after week and even though he ended up having a fling with someone he worked with so he really didn't need to be at this bar for it to happen, those work bar outings are sex waiting to happen I can't argue that.

 

I think though that what you just described is the epitome of a lifestyle that is conducive to foul play, plain and simple. And quite frankly a lot of the men and women you seem to describe strike me as serial cheaters, they have no rhyme or reason for their flings other than for personal conquest and cheap satisfaction. It's a lifestyle that becomes cemented no matter what is going on their perosnal lives. I still don't think it is fair to paint the whole gender of cheaters with that very same brush simply because men are more proned to promiscuity than women are.

 

If we read most of the stories on LS, which is a broader spectrum of scenarios for examply, are a lot of them about men who lead these kinds of lifestyles? Were they serial cheaters? A serial cheater is not fair game for the purpose of general discussion on Affairs, those people are addicts of sorts and have very serious deep seated problems and commit the same offense over and over without regard for who they damage along the way. So we can't really use those types of people to illustrate all cheaters, at least I don't think it's fair to use that as an example. A serial cheater stands alone as far as I am concerned.

 

For example my exMM was a total homebody he didn't even drink never hung out at bars, in fact was always work to home, home to work. He attended social events that were mainly work related because he was involved in them but not at all the type to be seen socializing after work with the bar gang. Again my situation is not every situation but I think my situation forms a fragment of the big picture as does a lot of people who were more like what I descibed than say those who are in permanent "conquest" mode like the types of people your co-workers were. Everyone forms the big picture.

 

I tend to have my own set of suspiscions about people who are married and frequent bars all the time. I don't agree with that, and I certain don't see the point in that. Go out for a drink with friends once in a while fine but those late hours week after week of afterwork of debauchery is a HUGE "accident" waiting to happen.

 

 

I wonder what were the wifes or g/fs of all those coworkers of yours doing while their men were out til the wee hours fraternizing with colleagues wasted out of their minds? Like Virgo said, just ewwwwwwe.

I dunnow what you described reminds me of the type of people who live by the following motto: "work hard and play harder" that is fine to have that kind of attitude when you are a young professional staring out in your career but some men or women NEVER really grow out of that mode and to them "play harder" implies staying in "pick-up"mode forever.

[norajane]

I wonder what were the wifes or g/fs of all those coworkers of yours doing while their men were out til the wee hours fraternizing with colleagues wasted out of their minds?

 

Most were probably at home with the kids.

 

I've worked in a setting somewhat like Reboot's. Except it was consulting, so most of this happened on the road in another city. Serial affairs were as common as 'mere' one night stands. A majority of those people were 'happily' married, happy with their lives at home with the wife and kids and wouldn't want to change, but wanted the extra attention and fun on the side. Some were unhappy at home, and eventually you'd hear of a divorce, and rarely you heard someone divorced to be with their affair partner.

 

Some industries breed or attract these people, I don't know which. I half-agree with Lizzie, in that a lot of people will cheat given the right circumstances. But others don't cheat, regardless of the circumstances, so I also half-disagree.