Does this forum legitimize cheating?

[Impudent Oyster]

The KEY word here is "blame". A doctor who respects his Hyppocratic oath will not "blame". The word blame has an accusatory connotation. He will not accuse his patient but rather point out what has to be done to improve his health.

 

Perhaps they wouldn't use the word "blame" to their faces, but behind their backs? Oh yeah, I've heard the stories where my friend has opened up a patient to find that he'd eaten an entire chicken and a sheet cake when they weren't supposed to eat prior to surgery...don't be naive, he was ticked off and yes, he BLAMED him for being such a glutton

[marlena]

Maybe the word BLAME shouldn't be used then. I don't think doctors BLAME, I think they can "discuss" with their patients what it is they may or may not have and what it that may or may not have contributed to whatever it is they have. I have known doctors to say, "You know Pandora, you really shouldn't keep running on that bad leg after I have told you not." Thats not really BLAME, its more of like a warning, of what I probably shouldn't be doing and if I do I will probably suffer because of it.

 

Exactly!!! It's not blaming as in accusing! It is explaining and having patience and a human understanding for your patient. A doctor with no bedside manner I repeat and stand by my gorund is NO DOCTOR at all!

 

of sc******* or get down to business and try to cure the disease?

[marlena]

No, I have never in my life met or known of a woman who remains married to a man who she knows is cheating on her

 

 

Are you confusing wives who forgive husbands who are no longer cheating? Because that is an entirely different thing

 

One argument cancels out the other! You are grossly contradicting yourself and not even aware of it!! Talk about illogical people!

[Impudent Oyster]

Exactly!!! It's not blaming as in accusing! It is explaining and having patience and a human understanding for your patient. A doctor with no bedside manner I repeat and stand by my gorund is NO DOCTOR at all!

 

of sc******* or get down to business and try to cure the disease?

 

Marlena, clearly you have a problem with the meaning of SELF-INFLICTED MALADY... but you keep standing your ground, mmmkay?

 

The bottom line here is, OP CHOOSE to get involved with MP, none of them are forced into it. Or do you want to argue that statement as well?

[Impudent Oyster]

No, I have never in my life met or known of a woman who remains married to a man who she knows is cheating on her

 

One argument cancels out the other! You are grossly contradicting yourself and not even aware of it!! Talk about illogical people!

 

No it doesn't. Anyone with any intelligence should be able to see the difference between forgiving a FORMER cheater and staying with a man who is KNOWINGLY STILL CHEATING and accepting it.

 

I can't help the fact that you can't see the obvious difference between the two situations.

[marlena]

IO,

 

A cheater was a cheater before he became a former cheater! The fact that he may be a former cheater does not cancel out the fact that he was once a bona fide cheater (probably still is but that's beside the question).

 

Or is this concept too profound for you to understand?

[Gwyneth]

I can't argue with illogical people.....No, I have never in my life met or known of a woman who remains married to a man who she knows is cheating on her. How many times do you want me to repeat myself? Are you confusing wives who forgive husbands who are no longer cheating? Because that is an entirely different thing.

 

I will say that I'm getting a good laugh at the whole "doctors who blame their patients for SELF-INFLICTED maladies aren't doctors" rhetoric. It's highly amusing...'well gee Mr. Smith, you have advanced lung disease, but that 30 year old, 3 pack a day smoking habit of yours has nothing to do with it"...lol!

 

My mom kicked my father to the curb when she found out. Kids or no kids, the BS needs to really think about whether or not it's worth keeping the CS around. I don't think I could forgive. I'd be insecure through the rest of my marriage to this man. It depends on the person, though. If the BS feels that it can be forgiven, then that's their right. They need to realize, though, that the cheating spouse may again do it to them. So no surprises when it happens again.

[Impudent Oyster]

IO,

 

A cheater was a cheater before he became a former cheater! The fact that he may be a former cheater does not cancel out the fact that he was once a bona fide cheater (probably still is but that's beside the question).

 

Or is this concept too profound for you to understand?

 

Yes that's it, your ridiculous assertion that anyone who cheated once is incapable of ever being faithful is much too profound for me to understand.

 

I take it that you believe cheaters should never be given a second chance and should be divorced immediately? Good luck with that.

[JamesM]

And I cannot give a clear answer as I have thought about this question longer.

 

This forum technically does not legitimize infidelity, but it does give people the wrong idea that lots and lots of people do it. It does give some/many the idea that since others are doing it, then it is okay that I keep doing it.

 

I have seen this before. As I have stated in the past, a few years ago, I ventured on an escort board for awhile. Not to visit escorts but to talk and find out about the guys who "enjoyed" such a "hobby." The "gentlemen" on that board were quite the individuals. What I noticed is that the longer I was on there, the more that it seemed to me that lots of men visited escorts and prostitutes. Then it became more of a thing that is okay when one is not getting sex at home. Most of these men had great rationalizations for their actions, and they received validations from the other men and even from the escorts. These men quite commonly would visit an escort almost every week. When I realized how this affected me even in the short time I was there, I signed off. I had this fear that I would (because I knew that I could) become one of them. I have never forgotten that feeling that was there though...if so many others are doing it, how can it be so wrong?

 

And here I think sometimes the same thoughts can occur. While these OW and OM sometimes do want to leave their affair, many are also looking for a justification or encouragement for their affair. I do not believe it is the intention of LS to promote the idea that affairs are somehow okay, but I think as has been said, the people themselves may stay in affairs longer because they see that others also are in them. While they know that this is wrong, yet they hang on to the hope that their case will somehow be different. And as humans, we do not like to think that we are somehow bad, so her I also think that justifications are used to continue an affair. No, not everyone, but yes, some.

[Impudent Oyster]

There are "escort" boards???? Oh well...I guess if NAMBLA has a board then anyone can...

[reboot]

This forum technically does not legitimize infidelity, but it does give people the wrong idea that lots and lots of people do it.

Uhmmmm..... lots and lots of people DO do it.

[JamesM]

There are "escort" boards???? Oh well...I guess if NAMBLA has a board then anyone can...

 

 

Yes, lots of them. It would certainly not be beneficial to list any here.

 

Uhmmmm..... lots and lots of people DO do it.

 

Yes, they do, but as a percentage of all married people...no. The thing is when they/we all get together on a discussion board and compare notes, it does in a sense legitimize the affair as maybe not okay, but I think it does justify it in some ways.

[reboot]

The stats I've read indicate that in a majority of marriages one or the other partner cheats.

[JamesM]

The stats I've read indicate that in a majority of marriages one or the other partner cheats.

 

Not disagreeing, but do you have a possible link to such stats?

[White Flower]

I don't think the existence of an OM/OW forum here at LS is indicative of either approval or disapproval on the part of the site.

 

I've always interpretted the overall intent of the site to be about the discussion of human relationships. There's a place here to talk about your issues with your spouse, your boss, your mother-in-law... just about anybody you'd come into contact with. And like it or lump it, the extra-marital relationship fits the rather broad criteria of being a "human relationship".

 

I don't have to agree with Infidelity, and I'm not required to. By the same token, those who do agree with it are not required to agree with my POV.

 

Personally, I really like that about LS.

There are other formats where only ONE view is tolerated, where these 'group-think' mentalities are espoused and where those who disagree are practically burned at the stake as heretics, at least in cyber terms.

But all anybody learns from that is how to conform to the group dynamic. Even with the squabbling, I find a free format to be more enlightening.

Excellent post again LJ!

For those who don't know, LJ and I do not always agree. But I think she is very intelligent and I value her knowledge (and even her opninion) a lot of the time. That is what Loveshack and this forum is about. We can share our thoughts and ideas intelligently without trying to flame each other.

[reboot]

Not disagreeing, but do you have a possible link to such stats?

 

A couple of links that support my claim

 

http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=57&id=28879

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/quizzes/public/infidelity_statistics.html

 

plus a few that support yours

 

http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats31.htm

http://mensstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

http://www.love-sessions.com/cheating_statistics.htm

 

I wonder where the truth lies?

[JamesM]

reboot, thanks for your honesty. Many of us...and maybe even me ... would have only posted the supporting links.

 

I agree...there is evidences for both sides, and I don't know which is right. You are right in that more people have cheated than is known. But I wonder if they would have continued longer or shorter if they were on this board or a similar one?

[Tony]

Tony...ya know I have to ask you this....are you or ever been the OM?

 

Not ever in the history of the world...never cheated....never betrayed anybody. It's not in my beliefs or constitution. But I do understand how others could given the circumstances and their own set of beliefs and morals.

[NoIDidn't]

IO,

 

A cheater was a cheater before he became a former cheater! The fact that he may be a former cheater does not cancel out the fact that he was once a bona fide cheater (probably still is but that's beside the question).

 

Or is this concept too profound for you to understand?

 

Yes that's it, your ridiculous assertion that anyone who cheated once is incapable of ever being faithful is much too profound for me to understand.

 

I take it that you believe cheaters should never be given a second chance and should be divorced immediately? Good luck with that.

 

 

I think that you two are getting too entrenched in your own opinions and now are having a fruitless argument.

 

If I was to follow Marlena's line of thought, then I am a cheater too because I have certainly done it before. But wouldn't that be a little too cruel to never allow me some level of forgiveness for my cheating. Life goes on. Cheaters don't have the plague. People change all the time - for the better and for the worst.

 

If I was to follow IO's line of thought, then I would forgive all former cheaters and try to reconcile with them. But its not always that simple.

 

C'mon ladies. We can agree to disagree, right?

[torranceshipman]

Remember that some OW are tricked into the A, or that the MM gaslights - lies and manipulates - to keep the OW / W in his life. This kind of board can help open people's eyes to this type of lying, to get harsh but good advice and understand how to extricate themselves from such a nightmare situation (emotional manipulation can be pretty powerful - it isnt as easy to get out of this type of situation as some might think, especially when the MM lies so much to keep you-it can trample your self esteem too and you need support sometimes to make the right moves and have the confidence to follow through on ending it, etc) - basically, the forum can help you to benefit from the wisdom of others.

 

This board certainly did that for me, got me out of an A very quick, so I have a lot to thank it for! It's changed the way I look at things for sure - it was truly naive and stupid for me to believe the things that I did in that very brief A and it was great to have my eyes opened so quick by a lot of posters who knew what they were talking about. I think the real value is that it offered me a place to come to anonymous people for advice and I felt I could speak more openly about my situation, and the advice was really good. Without it I might still be in that hideous situation with the loser guy, believing a lot of rubbish, being gaslighted all over the place, etc, so it was great for me.

 

I know some people come on here saying they feel proud or whatever, and I hate that - it's wrong in my eyes - but you can see from my story that the board can be very positive.

[luvmy2ns]

I think that you two are getting too entrenched in your own opinions and now are having a fruitless argument.

 

If I was to follow Marlena's line of thought, then I am a cheater too because I have certainly done it before. But wouldn't that be a little too cruel to never allow me some level of forgiveness for my cheating. Life goes on. Cheaters don't have the plague. People change all the time - for the better and for the worst.

 

If I was to follow IO's line of thought, then I would forgive all former cheaters and try to reconcile with them. But its not always that simple.

 

C'mon ladies. We can agree to disagree, right?

 

Also, if we were to follow Marlena's line of thought, no OP should be in their affair with any thoughts toward a future, right? I mean, if a MM or MW is cheating with an OW/OM and they are going to remain a cheater forever and ever, then the OW/OM would get cheated on as well. Right?

 

And Tony, did we give you that headache so vividly portrayed in your avatar?

[White Flower]

And I cannot give a clear answer as I have thought about this question longer.

 

This forum technically does not legitimize infidelity, but it does give people the wrong idea that lots and lots of people do it. It does give some/many the idea that since others are doing it, then it is okay that I keep doing it.

 

I have seen this before. As I have stated in the past, a few years ago, I ventured on an escort board for awhile. Not to visit escorts but to talk and find out about the guys who "enjoyed" such a "hobby." The "gentlemen" on that board were quite the individuals. What I noticed is that the longer I was on there, the more that it seemed to me that lots of men visited escorts and prostitutes. Then it became more of a thing that is okay when one is not getting sex at home. Most of these men had great rationalizations for their actions, and they received validations from the other men and even from the escorts. These men quite commonly would visit an escort almost every week. When I realized how this affected me even in the short time I was there, I signed off. I had this fear that I would (because I knew that I could) become one of them. I have never forgotten that feeling that was there though...if so many others are doing it, how can it be so wrong?

 

And here I think sometimes the same thoughts can occur. While these OW and OM sometimes do want to leave their affair, many are also looking for a justification or encouragement for their affair. I do not believe it is the intention of LS to promote the idea that affairs are somehow okay, but I think as has been said, the people themselves may stay in affairs longer because they see that others also are in them. While they know that this is wrong, yet they hang on to the hope that their case will somehow be different. And as humans, we do not like to think that we are somehow bad, so her I also think that justifications are used to continue an affair. No, not everyone, but yes, some.

I think this post was very helpful in answering the OPs question, although it reflects the position of an outsider looking in. You said you could have been one of them and felt it was condoned. You also said it was another site, but that is slightly beside the point. For me, being on the inside, I feel that here on LS in the OW/OM forum, we are actually mostly discouraged, not encoureged to keep the A going. I was only considering breaking the A with my MM before coming to LS and now I have a definite plan. The support I found was to END IT, not to continue it.

 

Also, Phateless, you said something to the effect that you rarely come here to this forum because you have nothing to offer because of your strong opinions against it. You know, I used to be very innocent and had no idea just how many As were going on in this world. After I confessed to a few friends about mine, EACH and every one of them confided in me that they too had once been involved in an A. I wonder how many of your friends are keeping thier lifestyle a secret from you because of your strong opinion? Just curious; I know you cannot really answer this.

[NoIDidn't]

I think the real value is that it offered me a place to come to anonymous people for advice and I felt I could speak more openly about my situation,

 

I think so too. So much can be gleaned from all sides if one is open to it. And it is anonymous. The posters that constantly claim that they can't post openly for fear of being flamed or worst yet, being told respectfully that others don't agree with their choices is funny. We don't know each other IRL (at least not initially).

 

This is a place to talk about the unspeakable in many corners. Even my M'd friends often don't want to talk about infidelity - and most of them have cheated at least once on their spouses (males and females).

 

The anonymity aspect should make this place more appealing to those who really just want to have a place to explore their thoughts outside of their own heads.

[JackJack]

I think to, sometimes its not always what is said, but HOW its said. For example, I have seen many people give the same type of advice to someone, but one person get praised for their advice while another gets shot down for there's when bascially both advices were meaning the same thing. I think it can be all in how things are worded. Of course I think too, it can be in the way some people perceive things too.

[White Flower]

JamesM and Reboot, thanks for being responsible posters.