Does this forum legitimize cheating?

[Phateless]

But if your spouse refuses to fill your needs, even though they've been made clear and are reasonable needs, why not just divorce instead of sneaking about? It's the honest thing to do, and it affords the new relationship a much better chance to grow and much more time for people to "learn" each other. When the affair is kept hidden, it's because somebody doesn't want their spouse to find out and leave the marriage. If the cheating party doesn't want out of the marriage, why would you want to be with them at all knowing you'd be relegated to sharing that person forever? If OW/OM are so confident in their relationship with the cheater, why does it need to be a secret to anyone at all?

 

That's exactly my point and hence the reason for creating this thread! One of my female friends is developing a crush on a guy who has a girlfriend, and I told her outright that I don't want to support her emotionally if she chooses to get involved with him. It's just a stupid thing to do.

 

To me, anyone who WANTS to stay in an affair is not seeing things clearly in one way or another, with a few exceptions (open relationships, swingers, etc) but there's no deception involved there.

[Lizzie60]

And I cannot give a clear answer as I have thought about this question longer.

 

This forum technically does not legitimize infidelity, but it does give people the wrong idea that lots and lots of people do it. It does give some/many the idea that since others are doing it, then it is okay that I keep doing it.

 

I have seen this before. As I have stated in the past, a few years ago, I ventured on an escort board for awhile. Not to visit escorts but to talk and find out about the guys who "enjoyed" such a "hobby." The "gentlemen" on that board were quite the individuals. What I noticed is that the longer I was on there, the more that it seemed to me that lots of men visited escorts and prostitutes. Then it became more of a thing that is okay when one is not getting sex at home. Most of these men had great rationalizations for their actions, and they received validations from the other men and even from the escorts. These men quite commonly would visit an escort almost every week. When I realized how this affected me even in the short time I was there, I signed off. I had this fear that I would (because I knew that I could) become one of them. I have never forgotten that feeling that was there though...if so many others are doing it, how can it be so wrong?

 

And here I think sometimes the same thoughts can occur. While these OW and OM sometimes do want to leave their affair, many are also looking for a justification or encouragement for their affair. I do not believe it is the intention of LS to promote the idea that affairs are somehow okay, but I think as has been said, the people themselves may stay in affairs longer because they see that others also are in them. While they know that this is wrong, yet they hang on to the hope that their case will somehow be different. And as humans, we do not like to think that we are somehow bad, so her I also think that justifications are used to continue an affair. No, not everyone, but yes, some.

 

I have to disagree... I don't think that hearing about things like that would make me want to be one of them... For example, if I would go on a 'drug addiction' to hear what people have to say about it.. I would never be even concerned about becoming addictedd or even trying those drugs.. I know that for sure. First.. I would not stay there very long, I would find it boring rather than 'tentalizing' because I am not attracted to drugs or anything like that.. so I would have no interest in boards like that.

 

And I think it's the same here... people might hear happy stories of OM/OW but they would still never betray.

 

And not every OW/OM are miserable in this kind of relationship.. I'm not.. eventhough I can't say I am 'proud' of it... I can say that I am 'happy' about it... this is exactly what work for me.

 

Even if I visit a 'marriage forum' a lot, would certainly NOT influence me to get married... I will never get married.. never did, never will... I know that...

 

So I don't think this type of forum legitimize or even 'encourage' people to stray... it's just here for those who need to 'brag' or 'vent' about it..

[NoIDidn't]

I have to disagree... I don't think that hearing about things like that would make me want to be one of them... For example, if I would go on a 'drug addiction' to hear what people have to say about it.. I would never be even concerned about becoming addictedd or even trying those drugs.. I know that for sure. First.. I would not stay there very long, I would find it boring rather than 'tentalizing' because I am not attracted to drugs or anything like that.. so I would have no interest in boards like that.

 

 

Then your example is not good. I guess making accurate analogies is hard many.

 

Who would go to a drug addiction forum if they weren't interested in it. That was just JamesM's point. He was interested in seeing an escort or at least in finding out all that was involved. I don't think anyone visits a forum that they have no curiousity about. A better analogy would have been something you are actually interested in, like a forum for natural healing techniques and body massage methods.

[Phateless]

Also, Phateless, you said something to the effect that you rarely come here to this forum because you have nothing to offer because of your strong opinions against it. You know, I used to be very innocent and had no idea just how many As were going on in this world. After I confessed to a few friends about mine, EACH and every one of them confided in me that they too had once been involved in an A. I wonder how many of your friends are keeping thier lifestyle a secret from you because of your strong opinion? Just curious; I know you cannot really answer this.

 

EXCELLENT post, and excellent point!! That's a good question, I wish I knew. I have some friends that tell me when they cheat on their GFs, and they know I don't approve, but I keep my mouth shut for the most part. I have asked him before why, and he doesn't know. It makes me sad.

 

On the other hand, I am a critical thinker to a fault, and I have strong ideals, which I'm going to stick to. I am always willing to reevaluate everything, but I can't imagine myself no longer feeling that cheating is wrong.

 

As for what James and Lizzie said - I think JamesM brings up an excellent point. When you are immersed in something, you begin to get desensitized and conformity starts to kick in, and your thinking can start to change. That's kinda what I meant by legitimizing. Hanging out in that forum and seeing new stories of it every day can begin to construct the ILLUSION that it's more commonplace than it might be, which can weaken one's resolve on the justification of "i guess everyone does it".

 

AGAIN, I'm NOT saying that this section is bad, if anything, I agree, I think it's a valuable resource for those seeking counsel with nowhere else to turn. I was merely posing the question. Most of the time I stay out of here because I have a hard time offering advice without lecturing, flaming, insulting, blaming, etc, at least on this topic. If I get involved in the discussion I'll probably get frustrated.

 

Again, JamesM - excellent post.

[nadiaj2727]

For me, being on the inside, I feel that here on LS in the OW/OM forum, we are actually mostly discouraged, not encoureged to keep the A going. I was only considering breaking the A with my MM before coming to LS and now I have a definite plan. The support I found was to END IT, not to continue it.

 

Good for you WhiteFlower. I think we really have a lot in common. I came here (and to other OW sites) initially because I was just starting to realize that I was actually in an A (and NOT, what I thought at first b/c it was what he told me, that I was involved with a separated man who was getting divorced and then we were going to be together... which in my mind at the beginning was not the same as an A although now I know to stay out of a R with any man who is married in any capactiy) and I was feeling really guilty about it.

 

I wanted to find out if I should put the R on hold until he was divorced. But as a result of my research and my communication with others in this forum and elsewhere, I soon realized that there was in fact no R, just an A!!! That perhaps he had no intention of getting divorced, and perhaps even if he had the intention, he wouldn't follow through with it, and perhaps even if he did follow through with it, I wouldn't want him, because I'd already discovered what a deceptive selfish being he was, who did not honor his marriage vows once so what would keep him from honoring any commitment with me? Etc. I am so glad this forum existed because it let me talk to other women in my same boat (or who had been in my boat before) and I could see that their experiences were very similar to mine and did not turn out well, so what made my "R" so special?

 

I found the support I needed to END the R/ A for good, when at first I hadn't even realized that that's what I wanted/ needed to do. This forum really opened my eyes to truth and reality. And I'm very glad that some non-OWs like Reboot, LadyJane, bentnotbroken and LB (I don't know each of their individual situations or whether or not they were ever OW/OMs, just that they're not right now) were in this forum to show me what marriage and true love are all about (for me, anyway) instead of just an "affair".

 

So anyway I'm glad this forum is here and for me it did not legitimize cheating at all... I already knew that what I was doing was wrong, and there weren't any people here saying "just keep doing the wrong thing!", instead, there were people giving me the support I needed to end it.

[OpenBook]

Even if I visit a 'marriage forum' a lot, would certainly NOT influence me to get married...

 

Heck, visiting the Marriage forum here on LS is enough to convince me NOT to get married.:D

[White Flower]

EXCELLENT post, and excellent point!! That's a good question, I wish I knew. I have some friends that tell me when they cheat on their GFs, and they know I don't approve, but I keep my mouth shut for the most part. I have asked him before why, and he doesn't know. It makes me sad.

 

On the other hand, I am a critical thinker to a fault, and I have strong ideals, which I'm going to stick to. I am always willing to reevaluate everything, but I can't imagine myself no longer feeling that cheating is wrong.

 

As for what James and Lizzie said - I think JamesM brings up an excellent point. When you are immersed in something, you begin to get desensitized and conformity starts to kick in, and your thinking can start to change. That's kinda what I meant by legitimizing. Hanging out in that forum and seeing new stories of it every day can begin to construct the ILLUSION that it's more commonplace than it might be, which can weaken one's resolve on the justification of "i guess everyone does it".

 

AGAIN, I'm NOT saying that this section is bad, if anything, I agree, I think it's a valuable resource for those seeking counsel with nowhere else to turn. I was merely posing the question. Most of the time I stay out of here because I have a hard time offering advice without lecturing, flaming, insulting, blaming, etc, at least on this topic. If I get involved in the discussion I'll probably get frustrated.

 

Again, JamesM - excellent post.

This was a good post, too. It is nice to have good critical thinkers on this forum, especially when they can offer good advice and support without hatred and judgement. It's not to say that advice and support are legitimizing adultery in this forum though.

 

I too had and still have very strong values. When I had to reevaluate my life I found myself here. I'm not saying it will happen to you, but just know that it can. I won't be in this sitch for long, but I can definitely say that I've grown a lot here and discovered so much. Though I wouldn't chose to go through it again, it was a great learning experience. Thanks to LS and this forum, I feel I can jump the next few hurdles.

 

I think people cheat, then arrive here. I don't think they lurk here, find alduterers enjoying wonderfully fulfilling lives and then decide it's OK for them. There are too many sob stories here to make it look appealing. I sure wish I'd known about LS 2 years ago!

 

And JamesM, don't you write for a living? Were you visiting those escort sites for research and then got interested? I could be wrong, but I thought that's how you began looking there.

[White Flower]

Originally posted by luvmy2ns>

But if your spouse refuses to fill your needs, even though they've been made clear and are reasonable needs, why not just divorce instead of sneaking about? It's the honest thing to do, and it affords the new relationship a much better chance to grow and much more time for people to "learn" each other. When the affair is kept hidden, it's because somebody doesn't want their spouse to find out and leave the marriage. If the cheating party doesn't want out of the marriage, why would you want to be with them at all knowing you'd be relegated to sharing that person forever? If OW/OM are so confident in their relationship with the cheater, why does it need to be a secret to anyone at all?

 

OK, I'll bite. But only because you asked respectfully and without malice. And I will try to tie my answer to you into the OPs topic.

 

You are absolutely right. I asked for a D and H is making it very, very difficult. It's dragged out for so long that I am actually giving up on trying, unfortunately. I am tired. Beginning the A before the D becomes final was not a problem for me because I knew there was nothing else for me to try in the way of working things out. That's the sitch on my end.

 

You are also right about the other cheating party. I do not want to be relegated to sharing him forever. It sucks. I can't stand it. At first I thought I could handle it. I told myself that having at least a part of him was better than never having had him at all. And the hiding sucks, too. So the dream has ended for me and reality has hit hard. That is why I came to LS. This forum with all of its non-judgemental and critical thinkers have helped to shed light and clarify my sitch for me.

 

To tell you the truth, it is the flamers that encourage us to continue in the A indirectly because we find that we must defend ourselves. We can get caught up in the argument with you and forget to focus on what we really came here for. You're actually stunting our growth when you flame and judge.

 

I suppose some flamers do that because they see how a few OW/OM can sound proud, or whatnot. But didn't you notice the swarms of us who jumped in and cautioned those who bragged that way? They are either new, or young, or new to the sitch and haven't hit hard reality yet. They will soon enough and they will do it better and more smoothly without the attacks of flamers.

[White Flower]

Good for you WhiteFlower. I think we really have a lot in common. I came here (and to other OW sites) initially because I was just starting to realize that I was actually in an A (and NOT, what I thought at first b/c it was what he told me, that I was involved with a separated man who was getting divorced and then we were going to be together... which in my mind at the beginning was not the same as an A although now I know to stay out of a R with any man who is married in any capactiy) and I was feeling really guilty about it.

 

I wanted to find out if I should put the R on hold until he was divorced. But as a result of my research and my communication with others in this forum and elsewhere, I soon realized that there was in fact no R, just an A!!! That perhaps he had no intention of getting divorced, and perhaps even if he had the intention, he wouldn't follow through with it, and perhaps even if he did follow through with it, I wouldn't want him, because I'd already discovered what a deceptive selfish being he was, who did not honor his marriage vows once so what would keep him from honoring any commitment with me? Etc. I am so glad this forum existed because it let me talk to other women in my same boat (or who had been in my boat before) and I could see that their experiences were very similar to mine and did not turn out well, so what made my "R" so special?

 

I found the support I needed to END the R/ A for good, when at first I hadn't even realized that that's what I wanted/ needed to do. This forum really opened my eyes to truth and reality. And I'm very glad that some non-OWs like Reboot, LadyJane, bentnotbroken and LB (I don't know each of their individual situations or whether or not they were ever OW/OMs, just that they're not right now) were in this forum to show me what marriage and true love are all about (for me, anyway) instead of just an "affair".

 

So anyway I'm glad this forum is here and for me it did not legitimize cheating at all... I already knew that what I was doing was wrong, and there weren't any people here saying "just keep doing the wrong thing!", instead, there were people giving me the support I needed to end it.

Excellent post. This thread has so many great posters on it! And I'm glad Tony chimed in. Nadia, I'm so happy that you found help here. And I wish I named all that you named above because they have been invaluable to me (even though I might have sounded disgruntled a few times with some:confused:). Kudos to LS and all of you!

[EmeraldI's]

Heck, visiting the Marriage forum here on LS is enough to convince me NOT to get married.:D

 

Isn't that the truth?!

[White Flower]

Heck, visiting the Marriage forum here on LS is enough to convince me NOT to get married.:D

Don't think I'd do it again.

[bish]

I take it that you believe cheaters should never be given a second chance and should be divorced immediately? Good luck with that.

 

I wholeheartedly believe in that concept. However its not for everyone.

 

But as far as me...once a cheater, always a cheater and I sure as hell aint gonna take a chance, or give a 2nd chance, to a cheater.

[Gwyneth]

I wholeheartedly believe in that concept. However its not for everyone.

 

But as far as me...once a cheater, always a cheater and I sure as hell aint gonna take a chance, or give a 2nd chance, to a cheater.

 

 

I used to feel the same way too, and would Always say "Once a cheater, always a cheater." It's just not always true, though. As far as I know, my father never cheated on the wife who he cheated with on my mother. He has now vowed never to marry again so I do not know if he has or will cheat in the future. Many men (and women) are just natured to cheat. It's like in their blood. It's not in my blood, thank god. I got my mom's genes

[OWoman]

You're "proud" to be the OW, you're "proud" of the fact that a marriage is breaking up and a family is being ripped apart?

 

See what I mean..

 

The "marriage" you're so keen on preserving was sustained abuse, and that was declared dead by a MC given W's unwillingness and inability to consider changing her abusive behaviour. The "family", to the extent that both parents were ever in the same place at the same time, was a war zone from which the kids sought escape. For the last few years the parents have occupied separate parts of the house, and not even that at the same time. When one is "home", the other is away. There is no "family" being ripped apart.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping a group of unhappy people to escape a deeply damaging situation by helping them explore alternative possibilities, and showing them that not all Rs have to involve abuse, and that not all parenting has to be conflictual, and that not all households have to be war zones, then yes, I'm proud of that.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping someone who's always put the needs and desires of others ahead of his own basic needs, to experience for the first time some pleasure, love and enjoyment of his own - yes, I'm proud of that too.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of offering kids who're deeply embarrassed and ashamed of their mother's behaviour an alternative model of how to resolve differences, how to achieve consensus decision-making and how to share space in a respectful manner then yes, I'm also proud of that.

 

And if you're asking if I'm proud of facilitating the strengthening of relationships within the extended family, so that MM's parents and siblings and himself have reconnected, and have reconnected with MM's kids, and have overcome that guilty isolation that surrounds "secrets" like domestic violence, mental illness and alcoholism then yes, I'm proud of that also.

 

I think healthy relationships are far more important to build and strengthen and rekindle than dysfunctional and abusive ones.

 

The trick is knowing which is which, and it's not a piece of lawyer paper that makes one "good" and others "bad". It's the nature and quality of what happens between the people involved, and the effect on people around them.

[White Flower]

The "marriage" you're so keen on preserving was sustained abuse, and that was declared dead by a MC given W's unwillingness and inability to consider changing her abusive behaviour. The "family", to the extent that both parents were ever in the same place at the same time, was a war zone from which the kids sought escape. For the last few years the parents have occupied separate parts of the house, and not even that at the same time. When one is "home", the other is away. There is no "family" being ripped apart.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping a group of unhappy people to escape a deeply damaging situation by helping them explore alternative possibilities, and showing them that not all Rs have to involve abuse, and that not all parenting has to be conflictual, and that not all households have to be war zones, then yes, I'm proud of that.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping someone who's always put the needs and desires of others ahead of his own basic needs, to experience for the first time some pleasure, love and enjoyment of his own - yes, I'm proud of that too.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of offering kids who're deeply embarrassed and ashamed of their mother's behaviour an alternative model of how to resolve differences, how to achieve consensus decision-making and how to share space in a respectful manner then yes, I'm also proud of that.

 

And if you're asking if I'm proud of facilitating the strengthening of relationships within the extended family, so that MM's parents and siblings and himself have reconnected, and have reconnected with MM's kids, and have overcome that guilty isolation that surrounds "secrets" like domestic violence, mental illness and alcoholism then yes, I'm proud of that also.

 

I think healthy relationships are far more important to build and strengthen and rekindle than dysfunctional and abusive ones.

 

The trick is knowing which is which, and it's not a piece of lawyer paper that makes one "good" and others "bad". It's the nature and quality of what happens between the people involved, and the effect on people around them.

Bravo OWoman. It just goes to show that each case has its particulars and that they should not all be seen in black and white.

[OWoman]

You are right in that more people have cheated than is known. But I wonder if they would have continued longer or shorter if they were on this board or a similar one?

 

Depends on the nature of the A, in my experience. Where there are emotions involved, there is more chance of cognitive dissonance or emotional conflict, and then a greater need for rationalisation, validation or affirmation one way or the other, surely?

 

That said, affirmation and legitimation can always be found SOMEWHERE - friends down the pub, support groups or even an anonymous call to lifeline. There are Usenet groups for EVERYTHING. So like-minded people will seek each other out and gather, virtually or otherwise.

 

The difference with LS, as others have pointed out, is that's it's a little more RL in that there is diversity of opinion, a range of exchanges, rational people and irrational and people from a range of cultural, social, religious and national backgrounds, making for a richer exchange.

 

If people were seeking mere validation, I don't think this is where they'd come. They'd as likely be taken to task than patted on the back - sometimes both at the same time in the same post - and that's rather more worthwhile than simply being told to keep right on keeping on. IMO, anyway.

[Lyssa]

The "marriage" you're so keen on preserving was sustained abuse, and that was declared dead by a MC given W's unwillingness and inability to consider changing her abusive behaviour. The "family", to the extent that both parents were ever in the same place at the same time, was a war zone from which the kids sought escape. For the last few years the parents have occupied separate parts of the house, and not even that at the same time. When one is "home", the other is away. There is no "family" being ripped apart.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping a group of unhappy people to escape a deeply damaging situation by helping them explore alternative possibilities, and showing them that not all Rs have to involve abuse, and that not all parenting has to be conflictual, and that not all households have to be war zones, then yes, I'm proud of that.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping someone who's always put the needs and desires of others ahead of his own basic needs, to experience for the first time some pleasure, love and enjoyment of his own - yes, I'm proud of that too.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of offering kids who're deeply embarrassed and ashamed of their mother's behaviour an alternative model of how to resolve differences, how to achieve consensus decision-making and how to share space in a respectful manner then yes, I'm also proud of that.

 

And if you're asking if I'm proud of facilitating the strengthening of relationships within the extended family, so that MM's parents and siblings and himself have reconnected, and have reconnected with MM's kids, and have overcome that guilty isolation that surrounds "secrets" like domestic violence, mental illness and alcoholism then yes, I'm proud of that also.

 

I think healthy relationships are far more important to build and strengthen and rekindle than dysfunctional and abusive ones.

 

The trick is knowing which is which, and it's not a piece of lawyer paper that makes one "good" and others "bad". It's the nature and quality of what happens between the people involved, and the effect on people around them.

 

I believe quite a number of OW are doing all that to their MM. I couldn't have said it better, OWoman!

[OWoman]

And Tony, did we give you that headache so vividly portrayed in your avatar?

 

"Not tonight dear, I have a headache?"

 

I thought the avatar was Picasso having a deep think! No wonder my migraines always sneak up on me - I can't tell a headache from a creative moment!

[Impudent Oyster]

The "marriage" you're so keen on preserving was sustained abuse, and that was declared dead by a MC given W's unwillingness and inability to consider changing her abusive behaviour. The "family", to the extent that both parents were ever in the same place at the same time, was a war zone from which the kids sought escape. For the last few years the parents have occupied separate parts of the house, and not even that at the same time. When one is "home", the other is away. There is no "family" being ripped apart.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping a group of unhappy people to escape a deeply damaging situation by helping them explore alternative possibilities, and showing them that not all Rs have to involve abuse, and that not all parenting has to be conflictual, and that not all households have to be war zones, then yes, I'm proud of that.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of helping someone who's always put the needs and desires of others ahead of his own basic needs, to experience for the first time some pleasure, love and enjoyment of his own - yes, I'm proud of that too.

 

If you're asking if I'm proud of offering kids who're deeply embarrassed and ashamed of their mother's behaviour an alternative model of how to resolve differences, how to achieve consensus decision-making and how to share space in a respectful manner then yes, I'm also proud of that.

 

And if you're asking if I'm proud of facilitating the strengthening of relationships within the extended family, so that MM's parents and siblings and himself have reconnected, and have reconnected with MM's kids, and have overcome that guilty isolation that surrounds "secrets" like domestic violence, mental illness and alcoholism then yes, I'm proud of that also.

 

I think healthy relationships are far more important to build and strengthen and rekindle than dysfunctional and abusive ones.

 

The trick is knowing which is which, and it's not a piece of lawyer paper that makes one "good" and others "bad". It's the nature and quality of what happens between the people involved, and the effect on people around them.

 

 

Where did I say I was keen on preserving every marriage? Some marriages are bad and the spouses SHOULD divorce, I'm just wondering why the MM didn't have the balls to get out of his bad marriage BEFORE he turned into a liar and a cheat, and before he betrayed his wife.

 

BTW, you give yourself a lot of credit, why you're just a gift from god to that family, aren't you?

 

When the problems start surfacing post divorce (and they will), are you going to take responsibilty for that?

 

The marriage is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

[Impudent Oyster]

I believe quite a number of OW are doing all that to their MM. I couldn't have said it better, OWoman!

 

 

Funny, to ask most exMM, I think they would say that meeting the OW was the biggest mistake of their lives.

[Lyssa]

 

Funny, to ask most exMM, I think they would say that meeting the OW was the biggest mistake of their lives.

 

Yes, most exMM, not all.

[Woggle]

This forum doesn't legitimize anything. It simply provides a forum for an element that already exists and people need to see this in order to be aware what is out there. I don't condone or agree with cheating or affairs from either end but it did not start with Loveshack and it won't end with it. All I can do is give my take and it is up to them whether or not they want to follow my advice. I am glad I am not involved with most people on this board though.

[marlena]

I am glad I am not involved with most people on this board though.

 

Yeah, Woggle, I know what you mean. I have often thought the same thing. Still,there are a few nice people on here who are roughing it and need support!

[Woggle]

Yeah, Woggle, I know what you mean. I have often thought the same thing. Still,there are a few nice people on here who are roughing it and need support!

 

Yeah and there are a few that actually seem able to have a healthy and happy relationship but most people on here just have issues. I know I have issues but some of the stuff I read on here just defies all logic.

[luvmy2ns]

Originally posted by luvmy2ns>

But if your spouse refuses to fill your needs, even though they've been made clear and are reasonable needs, why not just divorce instead of sneaking about? It's the honest thing to do, and it affords the new relationship a much better chance to grow and much more time for people to "learn" each other. When the affair is kept hidden, it's because somebody doesn't want their spouse to find out and leave the marriage. If the cheating party doesn't want out of the marriage, why would you want to be with them at all knowing you'd be relegated to sharing that person forever? If OW/OM are so confident in their relationship with the cheater, why does it need to be a secret to anyone at all?

 

OK, I'll bite. But only because you asked respectfully and without malice. And I will try to tie my answer to you into the OPs topic.

 

You are absolutely right. I asked for a D and H is making it very, very difficult. It's dragged out for so long that I am actually giving up on trying, unfortunately. I am tired. Beginning the A before the D becomes final was not a problem for me because I knew there was nothing else for me to try in the way of working things out. That's the sitch on my end.

 

You are also right about the other cheating party. I do not want to be relegated to sharing him forever. It sucks. I can't stand it. At first I thought I could handle it. I told myself that having at least a part of him was better than never having had him at all. And the hiding sucks, too. So the dream has ended for me and reality has hit hard. That is why I came to LS. This forum with all of its non-judgemental and critical thinkers have helped to shed light and clarify my sitch for me.

 

To tell you the truth, it is the flamers that encourage us to continue in the A indirectly because we find that we must defend ourselves. We can get caught up in the argument with you and forget to focus on what we really came here for. You're actually stunting our growth when you flame and judge.

 

I suppose some flamers do that because they see how a few OW/OM can sound proud, or whatnot. But didn't you notice the swarms of us who jumped in and cautioned those who bragged that way? They are either new, or young, or new to the sitch and haven't hit hard reality yet. They will soon enough and they will do it better and more smoothly without the attacks of flamers.

 

I'm both sad for you and happy for you. Sad that you'll have to go through some time of heartache, but happy that you care enough about yourself - your wants and needs - to not settle for less than you deserve.

 

As for the attitude I come off with sometimes, I apologize for that. There are occasions where things are said in a way that just sets me off. There are also times where some of the OW on the forum are so in the mindset of "well he may be lying to her and cheating on her, but he'd NEVER do such a thing to me" that I just wish I could reach out and shake some sense into these women! I know there are certainly instances where there are men (or women) in relationships with really lousy partners and, because of finances, kids, etc. etc. etc., they find it difficult to extricate themselves from it. My ex was the kind of guy who did a complete 180 after we married. He finally allowed his selfish side to show after the ring went on, and it got worse and worse until I couldn't stand it anymore. He was even displaying his selfish attitude toward our son! However, I never cheated on him. I divorced and then after a time of getting my head together, began to date again. It's the people who are in an affair for years and years and years and say they couldn't care less about how they are participating in hurting their married person's family; who display the "I'm happy and that's all that matters" attitude that irritate me. Then when you try to make some comparison to what they have vs. what they would get in an exclusive relationship, some of them take stabs at YOUR relationship. One even said something about how she can't wait for my D day. Nice.

 

I feel it's those people who, yes, legitimize affairs. It's not the forum, though. Some, like you, have truly "found themselves involved with a committed partner" (he said he was divorcing, then didn't) and are looking for the strength and support to go through the painful process of ending it once they realize they'll never be exclusive with their partner. Others, like those I mentioned above, are just looking for others like them to tell them that what they're doing is okay so they can continue to do it and not feel bad.