bish Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I used to feel the same way too, and would Always say "Once a cheater, always a cheater." It's just not always true Probably not...if I had to guess I'd say 98% of anyone who has cheated will cheat again. I'm not going to take a chance that if I find myself with a cheater that they may be that in that small 2% Just not going to bother with it thats all. And yes, how do you know someone you have been with has cheated on someone in the past? Well..you really don't...but if I DO find out she did, its adios!! Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah, Woggle, I know what you mean. I have often thought the same thing. Still,there are a few nice people on here who are roughing it and need support! You got that right, Marlena! Yeah and there are a few that actually seem able to have a healthy and happy relationship but most people on here just have issues. I know I have issues but some of the stuff I read on here just defies all logic. Yup, I'm one of those who is in a healthy and happy relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 If you're asking if I'm proud of helping a group of unhappy people to escape a deeply damaging situation by helping them explore alternative possibilities, and showing them that not all Rs have to involve abuse, and that not all parenting has to be conflictual, and that not all households have to be war zones, then yes, I'm proud of that. . I'd be proud to help someone get out of an unhappy marriage....but i sure as hell am not going to suggest or condone them having an affair. That just freakin' despicable. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phateless Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yes, most exMM, not all. The first thing they teach you in Statistics Class is that it is an imprecise science at best. The teacher said flat-out that statistics has no absolute, it's a science of generals, and vague-ness. Basically, statistics is the science of GENERALIZATIONS BASED ON DATA! My point? Statistics is the study of trends from which you can draw conclusions about how people TEND to behave. There are ALWAYS exceptions, but that doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply MOST of the time. You guys get what I'm saying here... Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The first thing they teach you in Statistics Class is that it is an imprecise science at best. The teacher said flat-out that statistics has no absolute, it's a science of generals, and vague-ness. Basically, statistics is the science of GENERALIZATIONS BASED ON DATA! My point? Statistics is the study of trends from which you can draw conclusions about how people TEND to behave. There are ALWAYS exceptions, but that doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply MOST of the time. You guys get what I'm saying here... Statistics are not exact but still useful? I hope everyone knows that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phateless Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Statistics are not exact but still useful? I hope everyone knows that. I don't think everyone does. We're talking about the ability to think critically, here... That talent is not as widespread as one would be tempted to assume. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I don't think everyone does. We're talking about the ability to think critically, here... That talent is not as widespread as one would be tempted to assume. Actually, when I look around me, I find many who are talented in critical thinking...even if I disagree with them. Yeah and there are a few that actually seem able to have a healthy and happy relationship but most people on here just have issues. I know I have issues but some of the stuff I read on here just defies all logic. Speaking of statistics, do most of these people here who have issues and are in affairs actually leave the affair or continue the affair? To me this would be an excellent way of determining is this forum increases the quantity of affairs or decreases the quantity. Do most come here to moan about their issues or do they come to find a way out of their affair? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Phateless Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Actually, when I look around me, I find many who are talented in critical thinking...even if I disagree with them. Speaking of statistics, do most of these people here who have issues and are in affairs actually leave the affair or continue the affair? To me this would be an excellent way of determining is this forum increases the quantity of affairs or decreases the quantity. Do most come here to moan about their issues or do they come to find a way out of their affair? Well correlation does not represent causation, so even those statistics would be inconclusive. Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Speaking of statistics, do most of these people here who have issues and are in affairs actually leave the affair or continue the affair? To me the question is, when they left the affair, was it because they thought it was wrong and left....or was it because they weren't getting their way? I've seen too many posts that indicate it is the latter. In other words, whats right has no meaning....its all about me me me. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmasMuse Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 To me the question is, when they left the affair, was it because they thought it was wrong and left....or was it because they weren't getting their way? I've seen too many posts that indicate it is the latter. In other words, whats right has no meaning....its all about me me me. That is a very good question. One that I can answer for my ex husband. He was a cheater. I ended things when I found out he had some side action. Here's the thing, when we divorced and he continued the affair with the OW, it last for awhile, but he ended up, cheating on her with another OW, and so on. Guess is is a serial cheater. Anyway we share a son together and not long ago he actually admitted to me one afternoon when he came to get our son for the weekend, that HE would always leave one affair and go to another affair, because he was bored or it just wasn't working out etc. (In other words, he wasn't getting his way) It was never because he felt it was "wrong." So I can't answer for others, but for my ex it wasn't because it was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 To me the question is, when they left the affair, was it because they thought it was wrong and left....or was it because they weren't getting their way? I've seen too many posts that indicate it is the latter. In other words, whats right has no meaning....its all about me me me. JamesM had a good question. I am one of those who moan and then leave. For me, it is about what is right for everyone, including myself. Seeing the actual stats in this forum would be interesting. Yes, in the beginning, I was looking to fulfill MY needs which may sound selfish. Those who know me well would say it was about time I did something for myself. Even my MM understood that. Perhaps he even counted on that, but that is beside the issue. When you suggest it is an either/or reason that we leave you miss out on the fact that there are some really wonderful and intelligent people in affairs, at work, in this world. My reasons for leaving are not 1, not 2, but multi-fold. My leaving is the right thing for all of us and I didn't get my way. I might add that I never asked for my way and I never anticipated my way ever happening. Yet, that is one of my reasons for leaving. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 That is a very good question. One that I can answer for my ex husband. He was a cheater. I ended things when I found out he had some side action. Here's the thing, when we divorced and he continued the affair with the OW, it last for awhile, but he ended up, cheating on her with another OW, and so on. Guess is is a serial cheater. Anyway we share a son together and not long ago he actually admitted to me one afternoon when he came to get our son for the weekend, that HE would always leave one affair and go to another affair, because he was bored or it just wasn't working out etc. (In other words, he wasn't getting his way) It was never because he felt it was "wrong." So I can't answer for others, but for my ex it wasn't because it was wrong. I'm sure there is a difference in that he was a serial cheater. Sounds like he was getting his way a lot! But he just got bored and went on to the next one. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmasMuse Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I'm sure there is a difference in that he was a serial cheater. Sounds like he was getting his way a lot! But he just got bored and went on to the next one. That could be true as well. I guess maybe he was getting his way in the sense he was able to jump from one relationship to another, but maybe he wasn't getting out of them what he wanted, so maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to move from one to another. I don't really know. Its sad though because its like he is looking to fill a void he can't seem to fullfill inside himself. Link to post Share on other sites
luvmy2ns Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 That could be true as well. I guess maybe he was getting his way in the sense he was able to jump from one relationship to another, but maybe he wasn't getting out of them what he wanted, so maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to move from one to another. I don't really know. Its sad though because its like he is looking to fill a void he can't seem to fullfill inside himself. Could it be that, like you, his first OW (the one you found out about) became his "monogomous" relationship which bored him, so he sought out a side f? This first OW found out and dropped kicked his ass, so he then went with the new, exciting, second OW who then became the "same old" thing, and so on and so on. I'm tellin' ya, some guys just have to always have something new! And if they have a wife AND a side piece, the side piece will remain "new" because it's illicit. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmasMuse Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Could it be that, like you, his first OW (the one you found out about) became his "monogomous" relationship which bored him, so he sought out a side f? This first OW found out and dropped kicked his ass, so he then went with the new, exciting, second OW who then became the "same old" thing, and so on and so on. I'm tellin' ya, some guys just have to always have something new! And if they have a wife AND a side piece, the side piece will remain "new" because it's illicit. You make a good point. That might be what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 That could be true as well. I guess maybe he was getting his way in the sense he was able to jump from one relationship to another, but maybe he wasn't getting out of them what he wanted, so maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to move from one to another. I don't really know. Its sad though because its like he is looking to fill a void he can't seem to fullfill inside himself. That's exactly what it sounds like. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who have this problem. I have a coworker who is such a great guy...now, that is. He was married 4 times! While he was young he used to blame the Ds on his wives. Now that he is older (70s) he says they were good women and that the fault lied within himself. Even some of those who have legitimate problems with their Ws are at fault for not trying to work things out with them before starting an A. Still, there are others who tried, but it didn't work. And better, those that tried and were successful. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Even some of those who have legitimate problems with their Ws are at fault for not trying to work things out with them before starting an A. Still, there are others who tried, but it didn't work. And better, those that tried and were successful. Dont forget the largest group! Those that tried too late. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I'm both sad for you and happy for you. Sad that you'll have to go through some time of heartache, but happy that you care enough about yourself - your wants and needs - to not settle for less than you deserve. As for the attitude I come off with sometimes, I apologize for that. There are occasions where things are said in a way that just sets me off. There are also times where some of the OW on the forum are so in the mindset of "well he may be lying to her and cheating on her, but he'd NEVER do such a thing to me" that I just wish I could reach out and shake some sense into these women! I know there are certainly instances where there are men (or women) in relationships with really lousy partners and, because of finances, kids, etc. etc. etc., they find it difficult to extricate themselves from it. My ex was the kind of guy who did a complete 180 after we married. He finally allowed his selfish side to show after the ring went on, and it got worse and worse until I couldn't stand it anymore. He was even displaying his selfish attitude toward our son! However, I never cheated on him. I divorced and then after a time of getting my head together, began to date again. It's the people who are in an affair for years and years and years and say they couldn't care less about how they are participating in hurting their married person's family; who display the "I'm happy and that's all that matters" attitude that irritate me. Then when you try to make some comparison to what they have vs. what they would get in an exclusive relationship, some of them take stabs at YOUR relationship. One even said something about how she can't wait for my D day. Nice. I feel it's those people who, yes, legitimize affairs. It's not the forum, though. Some, like you, have truly "found themselves involved with a committed partner" (he said he was divorcing, then didn't) and are looking for the strength and support to go through the painful process of ending it once they realize they'll never be exclusive with their partner. Others, like those I mentioned above, are just looking for others like them to tell them that what they're doing is okay so they can continue to do it and not feel bad. I appreciate that you know there are all types here and that we are all looking for different things. I have found this forum to be exremely helpful for me in making my decision. I am both happy and sad, too. I'm such a sentimental fool, so saying goodbye is hard for me. But I'm also happy because I know I will be OK. Wow, someone actually said they can't wait for your Dday? Were you still married at the time? Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Dont forget the largest group! Those that tried too late. Yeah, good point. I wonder what the statistics experts would say about that and how they would tie that into the D rate? Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I appreciate that you know there are all types here and that we are all looking for different things. I have found this forum to be exremely helpful for me in making my decision. I am both happy and sad, too. I'm such a sentimental fool, so saying goodbye is hard for me. But I'm also happy because I know I will be OK. Wow, someone actually said they can't wait for your Dday? Were you still married at the time? There are definitely different types of OW/BS etc. I know a few BS who I can have a decent conversation with because they see things from both sides as do I. WF - you're not alone! I'm a sentimental fool myself! I can't seem to say goodbye to some people I have bonded with because they are a great bunch but people say "all good things must come to an end"... that is true! Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 There are definitely different types of OW/BS etc. I know a few BS who I can have a decent conversation with because they see things from both sides as do I. WF - you're not alone! I'm a sentimental fool myself! I can't seem to say goodbye to some people I have bonded with because they are a great bunch but people say "all good things must come to an end"... that is true! Lyssa, I miss the picture of you in your avatar:p Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Lyssa, I miss the picture of you in your avatar:p You just want to see more of me, don't you? There's on in my PP. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Speaking of statistics, do most of these people here who have issues and are in affairs actually leave the affair or continue the affair? My MM did the right thing by divorcing his W so that they both can pursue their own idea of happiness. As for me, I wouldn't have stayed if I knew he wouldn't leave his M. Some might think it's easy for me to say this now that he has divorced, but it was playing in the back of my mind that if he didn't follow through with his words, I would leave. I don't think I can go on being with someone who is all talk and no action. Not for years to come anyway. Do most come here to moan about their issues or do they come to find a way out of their affair? I came here to read up on the issues OW are/were facing. I wanted to share what I was going through and learn from OW on how to deal with it. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Lyssa originally wrote> You just want to see more of me, don't you? There's on in my PP. I looked but didn't see one:( Link to post Share on other sites
LoisLane Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I think OW/OM have alot of issues!! I don't understand how cheating people could live with themselves! This forum does not legitimize cheating but all these OW/OM here on Loveshack sure go all out to justify their disgusting behavior and legitimize cheating. That is so sick and wrong on so many levels. Link to post Share on other sites
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