Losing Love after a trip home

[LostinBama]

As many of you said before “I never thought I would be here, ” at least at this stage in the game. My situation is as follows:

 

 

About two years ago I started having performance issues in the bedroom and started avoiding bedroom activities. My wife complained after awhile and I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I asked about ED and was told that they wanted to stabilize my blood pressure. After about six months I finally got Viagra prescribed and sent it off for mail order prescription (in August). It was returned for something not getting filled out. I tried to see the doctor and kept missing the doctor (between Sept & Oct). Anyway, I never got the prescript filled and really didn’t see any signs that we were heading over the cliff. I started sensing a bit more distance than usual after my wife went home for a visit. I attributed it to nerves about work since it has become really stressful there for her lately. The beginning of the month I felt she needed a lift and I bought some roses for her. I told her I loved her and she told me she wanted a divorce. This is after 21 years. I knew that she was not happy, but we have both been busy and I figured we would “get there.”

 

 

I asked her if she would consider counseling and she flatly refused. I got the infamous; “I love you, but I am not in love with you.” Now, I know that I messed up and caused a lot of this and really would like to work it out, but she is committed to divorce. She knows now that ED can be caused by high blood pressure and that I tried to get the prescript filled and she said that it was “too little, too late.” I feel that her family back home is coaxing this decision to have her move back there and I believe that in some way this might be clouding her judgment. I have since been reading Al Turtles relationship notes on his website (http://al.turtlecounseling.com) and realize that we both were making all the wrong choices in the relationship. No wonder we are here!

 

 

The part that really bugs me is back in August we went on vacation and talked about all the things long term couples talk about, like retirement and were truly forward thinking (both of us). It really went south in about two months and primarily after she went home to visit family about a month and a half ago. I do not think that there is another man at this point either.

 

Can someone stop loving or wanting to be with someone that quickly on their own?

 

Thanks for listening…

[Curmudgeon]

Can someone stop loving or wanting to be with someone that quickly on their own?

 

I think it's a gradual process that evolves over time. However, the willingness to face and admit to it may come in a rush after having been dormant for months, if not years.

[LostinBama]

I think it's a gradual process that evolves over time. However, the willingness to face and admit to it may come in a rush after having been dormant for months, if not years.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

It was like a night and day difference though. I totally do not know the person who is living here anymore. The person I knew is gone. The one here now shows no compassion for me - at all.

 

I can understand anger and resentment, but total alienation seems a bit extreme after all we have shared. I can see if I was sleeping around, but this is nutz! I am flabbergasted...

[redblack66]

Listen, from my experience, see http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t133240/,

just assume that there is another man. My wife is the person I have ever met in my life with the highest moral standards, and she got involved.

[LostinBama]

Listen, from my experience, see http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t133240/,

just assume that there is another man. My wife is the person I have ever met in my life with the highest moral standards, and she got involved.

 

Appreciate the response, and I read your entire thread. I wish I had an answer for you too my friend. J Geils said it best – “Love Stinks!”

 

I am not naïve enough to totally dismiss the thought, and that was my first suspicion. However, I see no advantage of hiding it. In fact, I don’t think she likes the idea that I want to try to save the marriage and an affair would be s “slam dunk.”

 

My gut tells me that she was not happy, went home and had a great time, complained about her life with just me (daughter went off to college last year) a certified Vulcan (no emotion), and sister and friends persuaded her to leave. She denies this and is angry at the thought. It was HER decision!

 

Anyway, since she does not want to stay here and was only home for a week, an affair doesn’t score high on my make-sense-ometer. But as they say, who knows…

[redblack66]

Appreciate the response, and I read your entire thread. I wish I had an answer for you too my friend. J Geils said it best – “Love Stinks!”

 

I am not naïve enough to totally dismiss the thought, and that was my first suspicion. However, I see no advantage of hiding it. In fact, I don’t think she likes the idea that I want to try to save the marriage and an affair would be s “slam dunk.”

Interesting, also my wife seems annoyed by my desire to save the marriage. However, she feels little guilty for not putting any effort,

and blames me that I blame her for not wanting to work on it. I have not said anything about my effort.

 

My gut tells me that she was not happy, went home and had a great time, complained about her life with just me (daughter went off to college last year) a certified Vulcan (no emotion), and sister and friends persuaded her to leave. She denies this and is angry at the thought. It was HER decision!

I am in a really similar situation. Going home was negative from this perspective.

[LostinBama]

Interesting, also my wife seems annoyed by my desire to save the marriage. However, she feels little guilty for not putting any effort,

and blames me that I blame her for not wanting to work on it. I have not said anything about my effort.

 

 

I am in a really similar situation. Going home was negative from this perspective.

 

Oh yea, I am the Vulcan, not my daughter. Just wanted to clarify that.

 

My daughter has the best qualities of the two of us (I hope). I can’t wait to hear what she has to say when she finds out. Who knows, she may disown both of us. Seriously, I hope she takes it better than I think she will.

 

Yes, your situation is very similar in many ways. I see a lot of familiar stories here and frankly that bothers me. Are we all making the same mistakes, or is everyone the same?

[redblack66]

[quote=LostinBama;1407211

 

Yes, your situation is very similar in many ways. I see a lot of familiar stories here and frankly that bothers me. Are we all making the same mistakes, or is everyone the same?

 

Both. We make the mistakes and they too, and many people seem the same in such situations. Perhaps you are scared about the future like me. I believe they will realize what they are doing when it may be too late, or they may not. It is so sad.

[redblack66]

Appreciate the response, and I read your entire thread. I wish I had an answer for you too my friend. J Geils said it best – “Love Stinks!”

 

Do you find my situation unusual, do you feel hope. As far as I can see, it is done.

[LostinBama]

Do you find my situation unusual, do you feel hope. As far as I can see, it is done.

 

Not sure about hope, but in many ways she is showing much more indecision than my wife.

 

My wife wants out of Dodge pronto. Plain and simple. We just cannot afford it for several months. She is going to get a part time job to try to accelerate the exodus. I wish I could say that it was so she could get out before she changed her mind, but that would be delusional on my part.

 

Yours on the other hand seems to be playing both sides of the fence.

 

I know the answer and it sucks. Sounds like our wives have one undeniable quality – stubbornness. They feel they are right and we are wrong. Nothing shy of a lightning bolt will change that and the only way it would ever work out for either of us, is for them to get struck. I know, it bites…

[redblack66]

Not sure about hope, but in many ways she is showing much more indecision than my wife.

 

My wife wants out of Dodge pronto. Plain and simple. We just cannot afford it for several months. She is going to get a part time job to try to accelerate the exodus. I wish I could say that it was so she could get out before she changed her mind, but that would be delusional on my part.

Our delusions are are big problem for ourselves. We hope that something may change. Wifes are delusional that the grass is greener.

I wish my wife finds any type of job.

 

Yours on the other hand seems to be playing both sides of the fence.

It seems to me the same. She is preparing a separation agreement with her lawyer, so she is determined to be out.

 

I know the answer and it sucks. Sounds like our wives have one undeniable quality – stubbornness. They feel they are right and we are wrong.

Correct. After I discovered her affair and I refuse to talk about us,

she cannot blame me for everything. I suggest avoiding the talk that

you are wrong about everything and led to this situation.

 

Nothing shy of a lightning bolt will change that and the only way it would ever work out for either of us, is for them to get struck. I know, it bites…

 

 

I know. I have a lot of life experience; she does not. I am afraid that we are both wasting time and one day we will regret what has happened.

[LostinBama]

I do not accept any more blame than what I deserve. I am responsible for 100% of my faults and what I have, or have not done. She is likewise responsible for her issues. We can both also accept 100% of the things we have done right (it is funny how the dumper forgets the good parts of a marriage).

 

The way I look at it, I am willing to work on my 100% (of the bad) and she is not. I feel bad about it, but I have to face facts that it is this way.

[Gunny376]

Welcome to LS LIB

 

And to the crazy topise-turvey world of "divorce-land"

 

As you can see, I'm from the "Heart of Dixie" as well. LOL! I'm probally the only one that understands your reference to being "Vulcan" (that is if you meant in the Brimingham sense of the word? ~ if the Star Trek version ~ the connotation is the same.)

 

First I would recommend that you keep posting here at LS ~ as there's a lot of collective wisdom amd experience here. For starters? I would read PSXW's and limw's thread. Just go to the top of this fourm and find "seach this foumn" and type their handles. Also most anything Lady Jane writes is Golden. As is post by Curmudgeon whose already posted. DropDeadLegs is another good one to read.

 

Other than that? For the time being? I get my happy-ass a library card and start reading self help books, and books about marriage, relationships, men and women.

 

Don't throw in the towel yet! ilmw ("I love my wife") wnet the whole route. Seperation, sold the house, divided up the furiniture, the pots and pans, etc. Went a whole year and a half! He was sure and certain that they were headed for divorce. He hoped for the best ~ but was prepared for the worse. You most definately will want to read his thread. He walked the razor's edge for eighteen months.

 

And his wife was a lot like your wife. "I'm done! We're through" Even was kinda-of-sort-of dating her partner (they're both in law enforcement)

 

I've read a lot and own a lot of books about dating, mating, relationships, marriage, men, women, etc.

 

Two that you need to run to the bookstore and get are "Divorcebusting" by Michelle Werer-Davis (ISBN 0-671-72598-X ~ this is the International Standard Book Number by which you order a particular book). The edition I have is literally the orginal edition from the 80's. You'll want to get the latest edition. She has a website, but be careful about getting sucked up into its fourms.

 

There's also Marriagebuilders ~ and there are some really good books there.

 

Putting a ban-aide on a gapping bleeding wound ~ for now?

 

Michele Weiner-Davis, re: DivorceBusting

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

 

2. No frequent phone calls

 

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

 

4. Do not follow him around the house

 

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

 

6. Do not ask for help from family members

 

7. Do not ask for reassurances

 

8. Do not buy gifts

 

9. Do not schedule dates together

 

10. Do not spy on spouse

 

11. Do not say "I Love You"

 

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

 

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

 

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

 

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

 

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

 

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

 

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

 

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

 

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

 

21. Never lose your cool

 

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

 

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

 

24. Be patient

 

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

 

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

 

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

 

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

 

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write

 

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

 

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

 

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

 

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

 

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

You need to print these off and read them a minimum of five time a day until you've got it down verbaitm. Why? Average human retention = 20%. Five times 20% = 100%.

 

These are not absolute rules. Some days you apply some of them, other days you apply others. Other days? You apply all of them!

 

You've got to become "fluid" with all of this. Actions speak louder than words, do not maginfy the words ~ but understand what the words she speaks mean.

 

And you must seek and obtain "balance" as ilmw has and did through all of this.

 

I believe that most of your problems is not with another man, nor with the sisters back home ~ but with you!

 

Not your fault ~ your a man! You, like I just didn't know and didn't have a clue. I would suspect that your wife has been screaming and shouting at you for the better part of 21 years ~ trouble is? She's been using "in-direct" speech. And now? She's feed up!

 

What is "in-direct" speech? Most women use it, and most men aren't crainly clued into receiving it.

 

"Fine" A woman used this word at the end of any argument where she belives she's in the right but needs him to shut up. A man should never use "Fine" to describe how a woman looks! This may cause an argument that end with the woman saying ~ "FINE!"

 

"Five minutes!" This is about an half hour. It is equivalent to the five minutes a football game is goine to last before a man says he'll take out the garbage!

 

"Nothing!" ~ This most definately means someting!

"Nothing" is usually used to described the feeling a woman has when she feels like choking the ever-living-life out of her man. "Nothing" often signifies the start of an argument that will last "five minutes" and will end with the word "Fine"

 

"Go Ahead! (with raised eyebrows) This is a dare that will result in a woman getting upset over "Nothing" and will end with the word "Fine"

 

"Go Ahead" (with normal eyebrows) This means "I give up!" or "Do what you want because I don't care!" You'll usually received a raised eyebrow ~ usually followed by a "Go Ahead" and within a few minutes followed by "Nothing" and a "Fine" and she will talk to you in "five minutes" when she cools down!

 

Loud sign! This means she thinks you're and idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you over "nothing"

 

"Oh" As the start of a sentance. "Oh: usually signifies that you are caught in a lie!

 

Me?

 

I'd let her happy~ass go!

 

What one will abuse? Another can certainly use!

 

Whatever she's got to offer you?

 

Another has just as good as ~ if not better ~ just as much of if not more!

 

The older you get as a man? The more women there are!

 

There's NOT a shortage of good women? But there's most definately a shortage of good men!

 

Stastically? By the time your eighty? There's literally two women to every man?

 

Get your happy ass busy living ~ LIFE!

[Gunny376]

Sorry, the other must read book is:

 

"Why Men Don't Have A Clue and Women Always Need More Shoes" by Barbara and Allan pease

[Ladyjane14]

Emotional Intimacy and Sexual Intimacy are interconnected in alot of ways. If you picture it as a kind of sliding scale with the majority of women needing emotional intimacy in order to be sexual on one side, and men needing sexual intimacy in order to be emotional on the other... individual people can fit anywhere on that scale. There are no hard and fast rules, only generalities.

 

If you use the Search tool in the bar overhead, and type in key words like "sexless marriage", you'll find that there are quite a number of people dealing with similar issues. What might surprise you though, is just how distraught the women become when their need for intimacy within the marriage isn't met.

 

Now, you've had health problems, and of course, that's beyond your control. Having read through quite a number of posts by women who are dealing with the same sort of thing, I've noticed that overall, they tend to be understanding of their mate's condition... that is, for as long as they believe their husbands are addressing the issue with alacrity. When they stop believing he's doing everything he can to restore intimacy, they start withdrawing emotionally.

 

It's hard to say if your wife can be reengaged or not. I think the only way for you to find out though is to put your best foot forward and allow her to observe you as "ready, willing, and able" to be a better alternative to the path she's set for herself. Toward that end, I would certainly use the 180's Gunny has posted for you, but not in a hard corps kind of way. Rather as a buffer to prevent you from representing yourself as 'pushy' or 'needy'.

 

Hey, if she was a barn cat that you wanted to tame, you'd offer her a saucer of milk, not the business end of a broom, right?

 

She's gonna hiss and spit. That's a given. Whatever kindness you show her threatens her resolve to leave, so your best bet is not to internalize it as being about YOU. And... even though her opportunity for extramarital involvement has been limited, women who have withdrawn from their primary relationship emotionally often seek out other lovers as balm for their wounded ego, same as men do. So you don't know for sure that there's not someone else on her radar, and you need to decide how you feel about that.

 

Anyway, all any man can do is the best he can. In your case, having allowed a loss of intimacy, and wanting to recover the marriage as you do, I think it's too early to be playing hardball.

[redblack66]

Whatever kindness you show her threatens her resolve to leave, so your best bet is not to internalize it as being about YOU.

 

LJ, you have been very good to my case. Do you mean that showing kindness would make her think about her decision? I guess, she may be less eager if there is kindness.

[Ladyjane14]

Do you mean that showing kindness would make her think about her decision? I guess, she may be less eager if there is kindness.

 

Yes. Think about it this way.... in order to break up with someone, you've decided that certain things are true. You may have decided that this person isn't right for you, that they have issues which are insurmountable, or what-have-you, and you base your decision to leave upon this 'laundry list' of "why things can never work out".

 

Now, what happens if your mate starts disabusing you of your preconceived notions? Maybe at first you'll cleave stubbornly to your own reasoning. Maybe you'll think he's bullsh*tting you, just doing anything he can to change your mind for his own selfish reasons. Maybe you'll think he's trying to prevent you from finding your own happiness, or that his changes aren't real. Initially you might be quite pissed off and see him as holding you against your will by being so sweet and nice, appealing to your sympathies.

 

But... there's also this niggling doubt, that maybe you're wrong. Maybe he IS capable of change. Maybe he IS sweet and nice and you just couldn't see it before. (????)

 

Your resolve is threatened. You've reentered a state of indecision and confusion. You're no longer certain of your course. Who the hell does he think HE is to be playing these mind games with you? But... what if they're not mind games? What if you're throwing everything away?

 

 

So... you see how these doubts have the potential to bring a woman back from a state of withdrawal and into a state of conflict. Of course she'll react emotionally. She's unsure of herself at that point and she's gonna be blaming the only guy in the vicinity.

 

Now a woman who's REALLY made up her mind to go, is GONE. She'll accept your kindness and still move on. But one who's only cleaving to her own stubbornness and hasn't completely committed to her decision is liable to fight like a cornered badger.

 

Conflict can be a good thing. It represents the opportunity to negotiate.

[redblack66]

Yes. Think about it this way.... in order to break up with someone, you've decided that certain things are true. You may have decided that this person isn't right for you, that they have issues which are insurmountable, or what-have-you, and you base your decision to leave upon this 'laundry list' of "why things can never work out".

 

Now, what happens if your mate starts disabusing you of your preconceived notions? Maybe at first you'll cleave stubbornly to your own reasoning. Maybe you'll think he's bullsh*tting you, just doing anything he can to change your mind for his own selfish reasons. Maybe you'll think he's trying to prevent you from finding your own happiness, or that his changes aren't real. Initially you might be quite pissed off and see him as holding you against your will by being so sweet and nice, appealing to your sympathies.

 

But... there's also this niggling doubt, that maybe you're wrong. Maybe he IS capable of change. Maybe he IS sweet and nice and you just couldn't see it before. (????)

 

Your resolve is threatened. You've reentered a state of indecision and confusion. You're no longer certain of your course. Who the hell does he think HE is to be playing these mind games with you? But... what if they're not mind games? What if you're throwing everything away?

 

 

So... you see how these doubts have the potential to bring a woman back from a state of withdrawal and into a state of conflict. Of course she'll react emotionally. She's unsure of herself at that point and she's gonna be blaming the only guy in the vicinity.

 

Now a woman who's REALLY made up her mind to go, is GONE. She'll accept your kindness and still move on. But one who's only cleaving to her own stubbornness and hasn't completely committed to her decision is liable to fight like a cornered badger.

 

Conflict can be a good thing. It represents the opportunity to negotiate.

 

Thank you so much: insightful.

 

I see things this way. I used to be sweet, generous, caring and loving when we met. For various reasons, these features disappeared. Now I want to show them again and I will. I know I am capable of this, and I feel internally I would like to do them. If all this is not appreciated,

certainly worse behavior will not be appreciated.

 

The result is my wife has been wondering if these changes are real and sincere, and she has even asked some of my friends if they believe that I am changing for good. She believes this is temporary.

 

Sure her mind is made to go, but also wondering...

[Gunny376]

As always LJ ~ outstanding post. A while I certainly understand and fully comprehend that for most women there needs to be "emotional intimcay" before there can be "physical intimacy" ~ its still a fairly new concept to me and would be lost upon many men. Certainly news we've could have used back in the day during sex ed or when we were given the "talk".

 

______________________________________________

 

To RB and LIB. One of the things thing you should understand? Is that you're not just dealing with the "here and now" of the situation ~ but the accumlative total of the length of your relationship.

 

The hippocampus ~ the part of the brain used in memory storage retrieval and language ~ is filled with estrogen receptors and grows more quickly in girls than in boys, giving women superior memory recall on emotionally charge issues.

 

Thus in your case LIB? Your not just dealing with the issues of the here and now? But all the issues of the past 21 years!

[Missy27]

Yes. Think about it this way.... in order to break up with someone, you've decided that certain things are true. You may have decided that this person isn't right for you, that they have issues which are insurmountable, or what-have-you, and you base your decision to leave upon this 'laundry list' of "why things can never work out".

 

Now, what happens if your mate starts disabusing you of your preconceived notions? Maybe at first you'll cleave stubbornly to your own reasoning. Maybe you'll think he's bullsh*tting you, just doing anything he can to change your mind for his own selfish reasons. Maybe you'll think he's trying to prevent you from finding your own happiness, or that his changes aren't real. Initially you might be quite pissed off and see him as holding you against your will by being so sweet and nice, appealing to your sympathies.

 

But... there's also this niggling doubt, that maybe you're wrong. Maybe he IS capable of change. Maybe he IS sweet and nice and you just couldn't see it before. (????)

 

Your resolve is threatened. You've reentered a state of indecision and confusion. You're no longer certain of your course. Who the hell does he think HE is to be playing these mind games with you? But... what if they're not mind games? What if you're throwing everything away?

 

 

So... you see how these doubts have the potential to bring a woman back from a state of withdrawal and into a state of conflict. Of course she'll react emotionally. She's unsure of herself at that point and she's gonna be blaming the only guy in the vicinity.

 

Now a woman who's REALLY made up her mind to go, is GONE. She'll accept your kindness and still move on. But one who's only cleaving to her own stubbornness and hasn't completely committed to her decision is liable to fight like a cornered badger.

 

Conflict can be a good thing. It represents the opportunity to negotiate.

 

Brilliant post LJ ~

 

My honey did the same thing when we went through a rocky patch about 2 years ago ~ it wasn't a case of separation ~ I'm an in for penny gal ~ but ~ I had become tired of his constant sarcasm and underlying control issues ~ coupled with a self confessed dormant insecurity issue and need for consistent reassurance of his practical and work skills (which he has now overcome) ~ it didn't bear well for a fullfilling reciprocation from me ~ !! ~ he didn't realise what was going on with himself at the time ~ as it was very subtle ~ and although I saw the guy behind the facade ~ it started wearing me down to the point that my lovebank withdrawals had gone off the scale ~ !!

 

Although I hadn't got to the point of seperating ~ it had gotten to the brink of no return and my own resentments were slowly building up and starting to overtake my emotional connection with him ~ luckily ~ we've always had good communication ~ and after a little distance from me and a good old fashioned "talk" ~~

 

He turned on the "leave a pleasant taste in my mouth" routine for a good month ~ and I started to ENJOY his company again ~ the resentment started fading away and the love that I knew I had for him started making a good comeback ~ I took responsibility for my part in it and after a few months ~ all was well and has been ever since ~~

 

Not hi-jacking the thread ~ but just re-iterating LJ's advice to OP really ~

 

LIB ~ I think that coupled with a solid Marriage Builders Plan A and a few of the 180's chucked in for at least a month ~ then you are going to have a better knowledge as to where your wife's heads at ~ dont throw the towel in just yet ~

[LostinBama]

Emotional Intimacy and Sexual Intimacy are interconnected in alot of ways. If you picture it as a kind of sliding scale with the majority of women needing emotional intimacy in order to be sexual on one side, and men needing sexual intimacy in order to be emotional on the other... individual people can fit anywhere on that scale. There are no hard and fast rules, only generalities.

 

If you use the Search tool in the bar overhead, and type in key words like "sexless marriage", you'll find that there are quite a number of people dealing with similar issues. What might surprise you though, is just how distraught the women become when their need for intimacy within the marriage isn't met.

 

Now, you've had health problems, and of course, that's beyond your control. Having read through quite a number of posts by women who are dealing with the same sort of thing, I've noticed that overall, they tend to be understanding of their mate's condition... that is, for as long as they believe their husbands are addressing the issue with alacrity. When they stop believing he's doing everything he can to restore intimacy, they start withdrawing emotionally.

 

It's hard to say if your wife can be reengaged or not. I think the only way for you to find out though is to put your best foot forward and allow her to observe you as "ready, willing, and able" to be a better alternative to the path she's set for herself. Toward that end, I would certainly use the 180's Gunny has posted for you, but not in a hard corps kind of way. Rather as a buffer to prevent you from representing yourself as 'pushy' or 'needy'.

 

Hey, if she was a barn cat that you wanted to tame, you'd offer her a saucer of milk, not the business end of a broom, right?

 

She's gonna hiss and spit. That's a given. Whatever kindness you show her threatens her resolve to leave, so your best bet is not to internalize it as being about YOU. And... even though her opportunity for extramarital involvement has been limited, women who have withdrawn from their primary relationship emotionally often seek out other lovers as balm for their wounded ego, same as men do. So you don't know for sure that there's not someone else on her radar, and you need to decide how you feel about that.

 

Anyway, all any man can do is the best he can. In your case, having allowed a loss of intimacy, and wanting to recover the marriage as you do, I think it's too early to be playing hardball.

 

[FONT=Tahoma]I completely agree with what you have said. I have been standing off for several days and will continue until the end. I have been learning about sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy over the last two weeks since she told me that it was over. So, I do understand its importance – now. However, it is too late and with her not wanting any emotional contact now it is difficult to show her I am "ready, willing, and able." [/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma]It would seem that she has already left from an emotional standpoint. I will not play hardball, probably ever. If I learned anything from this forum and the relationship advice from other sites it is that the person leaving has to want to come back, not be coerced. [/FONT]

 

[FONT=Tahoma]It is so sad, I finally get it and understand what I need to do to turn our marriage around and she is already at the point of no return. What a waste…[/FONT]

[LostinBama]

Yes. Think about it this way.... in order to break up with someone, you've decided that certain things are true. You may have decided that this person isn't right for you, that they have issues which are insurmountable, or what-have-you, and you base your decision to leave upon this 'laundry list' of "why things can never work out".

 

Now, what happens if your mate starts disabusing you of your preconceived notions? Maybe at first you'll cleave stubbornly to your own reasoning. Maybe you'll think he's bullsh*tting you, just doing anything he can to change your mind for his own selfish reasons. Maybe you'll think he's trying to prevent you from finding your own happiness, or that his changes aren't real. Initially you might be quite pissed off and see him as holding you against your will by being so sweet and nice, appealing to your sympathies.

 

But... there's also this niggling doubt, that maybe you're wrong. Maybe he IS capable of change. Maybe he IS sweet and nice and you just couldn't see it before. (????)

 

Your resolve is threatened. You've reentered a state of indecision and confusion. You're no longer certain of your course. Who the hell does he think HE is to be playing these mind games with you? But... what if they're not mind games? What if you're throwing everything away?

 

 

So... you see how these doubts have the potential to bring a woman back from a state of withdrawal and into a state of conflict. Of course she'll react emotionally. She's unsure of herself at that point and she's gonna be blaming the only guy in the vicinity.

 

Now a woman who's REALLY made up her mind to go, is GONE. She'll accept your kindness and still move on. But one who's only cleaving to her own stubbornness and hasn't completely committed to her decision is liable to fight like a cornered badger.

 

Conflict can be a good thing. It represents the opportunity to negotiate.

 

I was always good in other aspects of husbandry like cooking and providing a safe and secure home, so those areas are not being questioned. Just the one issue tied to emotional issues. I explained my phobia had made me withdrawal even further exasperating the problem. Then when I tried and failed it made me withdrawal even farther, perpetuating the issue. Sometimes I wonder if I even needed the prescript after the blood pressure meds took effect. I don’t know and I may never know. Since she was rather unsympathetic about it did not help much, but I cannot change anything about that then or now.

 

I do appreciate the insight! Maybe I can apply it in my next life…

[LostinBama]

As always LJ ~ outstanding post. A while I certainly understand and fully comprehend that for most women there needs to be "emotional intimcay" before there can be "physical intimacy" ~ its still a fairly new concept to me and would be lost upon many men. Certainly news we've could have used back in the day during sex ed or when we were given the "talk".

 

______________________________________________

 

To RB and LIB. One of the things thing you should understand? Is that you're not just dealing with the "here and now" of the situation ~ but the accumlative total of the length of your relationship.

 

The hippocampus ~ the part of the brain used in memory storage retrieval and language ~ is filled with estrogen receptors and grows more quickly in girls than in boys, giving women superior memory recall on emotionally charge issues.

 

Thus in your case LIB? Your not just dealing with the issues of the here and now? But all the issues of the past 21 years!

 

All I can do is change the here and now unless someone has a De Lorean in their garage. I already have applied the sentiments of the 180 theory and will apply the applicable members of the “32” until this concludes (one way or another). She does know that I love her and that I want to work this out, so I doubt there is anything more I can do that would have a positive effect.

 

Unless, she does a 180 (with a burn) she will float out of my solar system for she has achieved a mental state of escape velocity.

[LostinBama]

Brilliant post LJ ~

 

My honey did the same thing when we went through a rocky patch about 2 years ago ~ it wasn't a case of separation ~ I'm an in for penny gal ~ but ~ I had become tired of his constant sarcasm and underlying control issues ~ coupled with a self confessed dormant insecurity issue and need for consistent reassurance of his practical and work skills (which he has now overcome) ~ it didn't bear well for a fullfilling reciprocation from me ~ !! ~ he didn't realise what was going on with himself at the time ~ as it was very subtle ~ and although I saw the guy behind the facade ~ it started wearing me down to the point that my lovebank withdrawals had gone off the scale ~ !!

 

Although I hadn't got to the point of seperating ~ it had gotten to the brink of no return and my own resentments were slowly building up and starting to overtake my emotional connection with him ~ luckily ~ we've always had good communication ~ and after a little distance from me and a good old fashioned "talk" ~~

 

He turned on the "leave a pleasant taste in my mouth" routine for a good month ~ and I started to ENJOY his company again ~ the resentment started fading away and the love that I knew I had for him started making a good comeback ~ I took responsibility for my part in it and after a few months ~ all was well and has been ever since ~~

 

Not hi-jacking the thread ~ but just re-iterating LJ's advice to OP really ~

 

LIB ~ I think that coupled with a solid Marriage Builders Plan A and a few of the 180's chucked in for at least a month ~ then you are going to have a better knowledge as to where your wife's heads at ~ dont throw the towel in just yet ~

 

I really hope you are correct. I have not thrown in the towel, just yet.

 

I am prepared to discuss reconciliation plans if the opportunity presents itself and I am committed to make this work. Part of that is to not put things off until we are better able to handle it (financially and the like). Ironically, I was just planning a vacation over the holidays to get us some needed break. Again, too late.

 

I also will not get my hopes up over nothing. I love rollercoaster’s generally, but not this one.

 

I do appreciate all comments here so please do not feel you are hijacking the thread. I want to hear any and all thoughts. That’s why I’m here…

 

BTW – love your avatar!

[redblack66]

Brilliant post LJ ~

 

Although I hadn't got to the point of seperating ~ it had gotten to the brink of no return and my own resentments were slowly building up and starting to overtake my emotional connection with him ~ luckily ~ we've always had good communication ~ and after a little distance from me and a good old fashioned "talk" ~~

 

He turned on the "leave a pleasant taste in my mouth" routine for a good month ~ and I started to ENJOY his company again ~ the resentment started fading away and the love that I knew I had for him started making a good comeback ~ I took responsibility for my part in it and after a few months ~ all was well and has been ever since ~~

 

Can you please enlighten in more detail what he did? Did you lose in the meantime the "I am not in love" thing.

 

What I learned from my turbulent experience: do not push and do not pressure. Unfortunately, I did both, although I was trying not to.