on ulitmatums

[Trialbyfire]

a marirage is an agrement betwene 2 peeps an' both party's shud abid by it thus teh OP has evry rite 2 demand thet his wif do so on his temrs and cundisions.

[Tomcat33]

a marirage is an agrement betwene 2 peeps an' both party's shud abid by it thus teh OP has evry rite 2 demand thet his wif do so on his temrs and cundisions.

 

 

They say immitation is the best form of flattery.

But there is only one of me, sorry.

 

Actually maybe you can share with us how "demands" worked for your situation because if I remember correctly your H ended up divorcing you and ended up with the OW.

[Trialbyfire]

They say immitation is the best form of flattery.

But there is only one of me, sorry.

 

Actually maybe you can share with us how "demands" worked for your situation because if I remember correctly your H ended up divorcing you and ended up with the OW.

Nope. Your memory isn't serving you well. I divorced my wayward spouse. The OW is currently in a bitter divorce and custody battle over her child. Neither ex-WS or OW are in contact.

[Tomcat33]

Nope. Your memory isn't serving you well. I divorced my wayward spouse. The OW is currently in a bitter divorce and custody battle over her child. Neither ex-WS or OW are in contact.

 

So he divorced you which is what I said, so no matter which side we focus on you ARE divorved and if that is the case you have no clue really if he is contacting her or not. I mean he cheated on your right under your own roof what makes you think you know what he is doing now?

So how did the demands work for you then?

[Trialbyfire]

So he divorced you which is what I said, so no matter which side we focus on you ARE divorved and if that is the case you have no clue really if he is contacting her or not. I mean he cheated on your right under your own roof what makes you think you know what he is doing now?

So how did the demands work for you then?

This is funny because it's as far from reality as you can take it and still be considered sane.

 

My demands worked perfectly. Thanks for asking.

[Tomcat33]

This is funny because it's as far from reality as you can take it and still be considered sane.

 

My demands worked perfectly. Thanks for asking.

 

 

Well seeing as you are so intent on making this about my past and yours and you also feel that demands are what is beneficial here, why don't you do this thread a favour and actually share with the rest of us exactly how the demands worked for you?

[Trialbyfire]

Well seeing as you are so intent on making this about my past and yours and you also feel that demands are what is beneficial here, why don't you do this thread a favour and actually share with the rest of us exactly how the demands worked for you?

I brought up the fact that we had different perspectives and how those perspectives differ. That you chose to take it as a personal attack makes me believe you're not very proud of your past. Why not accept it as a not nice thing to have gotten involved in and move on with your life? Why be ashamed and embarrassed about it but so defensive?

 

If you look at certain other members who have moved on, of which there are two who I admire and respect greatly through how they've turned their lives around and would never consider doing it again, you would benefit from the way they've chosen to handle their lives. PM me if you want to know the screen names of the two members.

 

As for how my demands worked, for the benefit of the OP, here's a few of them:

• Sever all communications with the OW. He did so in less than 18 hours, including a good night's sleep in between. He openly admitted that he was using her.
  
• Setup a meeting between myself and the OW. He did it.
  
• Setup a meeting between myself, the OW and himself. He did it.
  
• Get therapy to find out if you have NPD. He got therapy, was diagnosed with NPD and continues therapy.
  
• I demanded a divorce. He signed the papers after dragging his feet.

[Tomcat33]

I brought up the fact that we had different perspectives and how those perspectives differ.

 

No actually in your very round about way you chose to focus on my past and yours to discredit my point of view by claimng that until I am more like "you" and less like me I basically have no clue in what I am saying.

 

 

That you chose to take it as a personal attack makes me believe you're not very proud of your past. Why not accept it as a not nice thing to have gotten involved in and move on with your life? Why be ashamed and embarrassed about it but so defensive?

 

Ok, if there is one thing I am not is embarassed about my past, my past is mine and it has made me who I am and I like who I am. I would not change a THING about my past. There were things that were less good for me than others, but even those things that were not good for me have a lot of beauty to them as well. Let alone I would not have come on here to share with thousands of people my situation if I were that embarassed by it. So rest assured I have no bones about what my past held.

 

What I do not like is someone like you, who has no clue WHATSOEVER about me coming along and talking about me and what my points of views are as if you know me, when you have NO clue what I am about and how I have come about to think the things I do you have not idea what bearings my past has and quite frankly I can assure you my vies have been the same pretty much all my life. Since you don't exist the in realm of my existence other than your presence here, which might as well be a figment I really don't think you are in a place to draw up conclusions about the way I think based on assumptions.

 

If we disagree on something it is because we disagree, it's ok. So again, if you stick to talking about what you know best which would be you, and let me speak of what I know best, which is me and if the twain shall never meet BELIEVE me I ain't losin'ANY sleep over it. I certainly hope you aren't either.

 

 

If you look at certain other members who have moved on, of which there are two who I admire and respect greatly through how they've turned their lives around and would never consider doing it again, you would benefit from the way they've chosen to handle their lives. PM me if you want to know the screen names of the two members.

 

:laugh: gees that post sounds like an intervention. I don't know what gave you the idea I need to "turn my my life around" but it is probably the same ""logic" you use to base your judgement of me and my opinions.

I take it as a HUGE compliment that you would be so threatened by my thoughts that it prompts you to harp on how supposedly bad my life is or how embarassed I am by it because it says a lot more about your own issues than it does about my reality. And don't take this the wrong way but your admiration and respect for people you should prob. leave for those who actually look up to your assesments. I tend to make my own assessments of people, but thanks for the effort anyhow.

 

As for how my demands worked, for the benefit of the OP, here's a few of them:

• Sever all communications with the OW. He did so in less than 18 hours, including a good night's sleep in between. He openly admitted that he was using her.
  
• Setup a meeting between myself and the OW. He did it.
  
• Setup a meeting between myself, the OW and himself. He did it.
  
• Get therapy to find out if you have NPD. He got therapy, was diagnosed with NPD and continues therapy.
  
• I demanded a divorce. He signed the papers after dragging his feet.

 

 

Good finally something of relevance to this thread and to the OP.

 

What we can all learn about demands from this last part of the post is that when a person wants out there is nothing you can do to keep them there no matter how many demands you put on them. If they cheat on you they wanted out, it is only a matter of time until it happens.

 

 

So we do the full circle and we actually have a lot more in common than you think TBF, my point is that when a person cheats he/she has given up on the relatinship so do yourself a favour and don't force something that with time proves to be inevitable. But then again I am not partisan to prolonging agony, some are.

 

You see, we actually agree more than you care to see!

[Trialbyfire]

No actually you chose to focus on my past and yours to discredit my point of view by claimng that until I am more like "you" and less like me I basically have no clue in what I am saying.

You read too much into people's post.

 

Ok, if there is one thing I am not is embarassed about my past, my past is mine and it has made me who I am and I like who I am. I would not change a THING about my past. There were things that were less good for me than others, but even those things that were not good for me have a lot of beauty to them as well. Let alone I would not have come on here to share with thousands of people my situation if I were that embarassed by it. So rest assured I have no bones about what my past held.

If you weren't so embarrassed about your past, why would you believe that what I said would discredit you?

 

What I do not like is someone like you, who has no clue WHATSOEVER about me coming along and talking about me and what my points of views are as if you know me, when you have NO clue what I am about and how I have come about to think the things I do you have not idea what bearings my past has and quite frankly I can assure you my vies have been the same pretty much all my life. Since you don't exist the in realm of my existence other than your presence here, which might as well be figment I really don't think you are in a place to draw up conclusions about the way I think.

It's amazing that you never see the hypocrisy of your posts.

 

If we disagree on something it is because we disagree, it's ok. So again, if you stick to talking about what you know best which would be you, and let me speak of what I know best and if the twain shall never meet BELIEVE me I ain't losin'ANY sleep over it. I certainly hope you aren't either.

I have been posting about what I know about. Being the betrayed spouse offering another betrayed spouse my advice and experience.

:laugh: gees that post sounds like an intervention. I don't know what gave you the idea I need to "turn my my life around" but it is probably the same ""logic" you use to base your judgement of me and my opinions.

I take it as a HUGE compliment that you would be so threatened by my thoughts that it prompts you to harp on how supposedly bad my life is or how embarassed I am by it because it says a lot more about your own issues than it does about my reality.

I try to help whereever I see a need.

 

Good finally something of relvevance to this thread and to the OP.

There's tons of relevancy in my posts. All you have to do is to read them and understand them.

 

What we can all learn about demands from this last part of the post is that when a person wants out there is nothing you can do to keep them there. If they cheat on you they wanted out, it is only a matter of time until it happens.

That's a blanket statement you can't back up. Not everyone wants out. This is a fact.

So we do the full circle and we actually have a lot more in common than you think TBF, my point is that when a person cheats he/she has given up on the relatinship so do yourself a favour and don't force something that with time proves to be inevitable. But then again I am not partisan to prolonging agony, some are.

 

You see, we actually agree more than you care to see!

Once again, I'll have to disagree. You and I are completely different. We live our lives very differently and have completely different moral compasses.

 

Now it's time for you to start providing relevancy to this thread.

[Tomcat33]

Now it's time for you to start providing relevancy to this thread.

 

 

Sorry but I don't respond to "demands", most people don't. But I am sure you learned that the hard way already.

[Tomcat33]

Is it just me? because I fail to see how this:

 

You and I will always see things differently. I will always see it from the perspective of someone who's been married and been cheated on and, until you've been married, you will always see it from the perspective of someone who's never been married and has been an OW.

 

equals this:

 

I have been posting about what I know about. Being the betrayed spouse offering another betrayed spouse my advice and experience.

[Cobra_X30]

You were bang on until the advocating part, I don't advocate anything because I know that not everyone has the same approach to crisis moments. I am not an advocate for anything except for in my own life I advocate TO MYSELF what I believe are the truths are that I need to have a happy and fulfilling life. I can share what makes me happy and works for me but I do not expect it to be taken on by others.

 

So if she is still in the fog and refuses to hear what Burningman 's needs are then he always has options that denote maintaining his control of himself rather than trying to control HER actions.

 

What the action of "this is not working for me I shared with you what I need and it is not happening, therefore I must take my own wellbeing into my own hands" denotes is an air of self confidence of lack of fear and most importantly utter respect for the self. THAT is what makes people react and see the value in another human being NOT an ultimatum.

 

Tomcat,

 

Advocate? Fine I'm not interested in arguing semantics. Must you constantly search for reasons to disagree!

 

I'm not a big fan of just seperating. In my opinion it does more harm than good in the longrun.

 

What I do think is a good idea... is honest communication. That means letting the other person know what your going to do, and giving them a chance to fix things before you do it!

 

If they seperate thier chances of reconciliation drop in a big way!

 

You seem inordinantly worried with the perception that he would be controlling her! However, I do not think this is controlling behavior. She will have the option to leave.

[Trialbyfire]

Hey burningman, overall, a cheater must make amends for their indiscretion. The OM should also make reparations.

 

Make both responsible for each of their 50% of the infidelity and lack of professionalism.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat,

 

Advocate? Fine I'm not interested in arguing semantics. Must you constantly search for reasons to disagree!

 

I'm not a big fan of just seperating. In my opinion it does more harm than good in the longrun.

 

What I do think is a good idea... is honest communication. That means letting the other person know what your going to do, and giving them a chance to fix things before you do it!

 

If they seperate thier chances of reconciliation drop in a big way!

 

You seem inordinantly worried with the perception that he would be controlling her! However, I do not think this is controlling behavior. She will have the option to leave.

 

 

Well you chose the word advocate not me. You were talking about me and what my motive was, I think I have the right to set the record straight if I feel I am being miserpresented. "Thank you council you may step down.":p

 

I agree honest communication is EXACTLY where it's at. Ultimatums is not.

Demands come with the territorry after an affair happens but anyone who choses to take on the role of a parole officer would probably want to take up a hobbie instead, I would think that can can prove to be far more rewarding.

 

No, there is one thing to have expectations and natural needs that will have to be met to enduce forgiveness during the recovery period it's another to force the other to do what they are clearly not willing to do. I just don't think it is a winning move for the betrayed.

If he forces her to leave her job and she does it not willingly, he will conquer that move but lose the battle. This has been my point all along.

But by making it clear what his needs are an letting HER make that move it proves to him that she respects his needs and WANTS to meet them. Ultimately he needs to also feel secure that she is still on board. Right now his ground must feel shaky and filled with doubts about what she feels for him so by giving her a chance to prove to him what he means to her he can ensure she is there for all the right reasons.

 

Why would anyone pass up a chance at peace of mind!?!?

[RecordProducer]

I don't understand this: sexual harassment, ultimatums to quit work, her boss is her friend, you should talk to the boss...

 

The woman cheated on you and no chat or quitting or denial will take that away. You wanting her to NOT see him anymore and her belief that he is her friend make me think that she doesn't quite regret what she did and you're afarid she might do it again. I actually suspect that you have cheated on her in the past too, because you are so ready to forgive her.

 

How did you find out in the first place? I think the issue in your marriage is way beyond the circumstances and will not be resolved by quitting the job. That might come aspart of the healing procedure, but not as the only tool.

[Mr. Lucky]

I surely don't want to take her career away from her, and I don't need to punish her because she's taking care of that. But I don't know how I can live with the fact that they are working in the same office. As someone above said, one will eventually be after the other. It's human nature and there are a lot of power issues in this situation.

*

(She hasn't even quit lying yet, but I know my w, and I'm hoping for the best here and thinking ahead)

Burningman, what stops you from walking out the door and telling your W that you are NC with her until she quits her job and goes NC with her Boss? I don't see any other way to get her to face up to what happened...

 

Mr. Lucky

[burningman]

Ok. My threads are now crossed up, but I'm putting this in here for now. Recordproducer, for what's worth I haven't cheated on my wife. However, I've made enough mistakes in my single life..... I didn't find this woman until I was 30 and she was 25. I u/s that life is not as simple as we would like to be, and I knew going into this that my wife had some insecurity issues. I risk another thread full of backlashes but when I say this, but women tend to be insecure. Jesus, Just look at the way our cullture has treated them for the last 200 years.

*************

Anyway, with bags packed and sitting at the door (thanks, Cobra), I absolutley gave one final ultimate "one more lie and I leave" and I got some clarity on the story. I simply explained the story she wanted me to believe made no f'ing sense whatsoever and it all came out:

****************

She knew she was in trouble when she called me and said she was going to hang at boss man's house that evening. She thought she could play with fire and get away with it, because he has his responsibilities as well. She's admitted enough for me to u/s that she had an emotional crush and if it wasn't a total EA it's only because he wasn't there enough to reciprocate. In her mind I don't think that mattered. Still an EA. The big issue that I'm hung up on is that she is still upset that he never spoke to her afterwards. She misses the attention he gave her. She admits being attracted to him prior to the event. She still wants the attention now. She states she loves me more than anything and wants our marriage to work, but she totally admits that she's not over big boss man's rejection and wants it resolved. She also sees know that he recognized at least the crush part and took advantage of it. She thinks he basically played her. Amazing what packed bags will uncover. So now what? I've made it to the guest bedroom, bags are still at the front door. I feel like I married and 12 yr old, which isn't really surprising to me right now. (BTW Tomcat, now that the truth is finally coming out, for what it's worth she has volunteered to quit her job ASAP if need be.)

[burningman]

I guess my whole point here is that I'm dyig inside and wondering what to do, becuse she is not over it/him, which means "affair" in her head, even though it culminated w/ a ONS. Her thoughts on this tell me it's not over. Is there a way out of this besides me leaving, or her quitting job immediately? I'd prefer to do neither right away, but don't see how.

[LucreziaBorgia]

IIs there a way out of this besides me leaving, or her quitting job immediately? I'd prefer to do neither right away, but don't see how.

 

No. As long as you stay and tolerate it on some level, she will continue to do it. As long as she is is any sort of contact with the guy under her current emotional circumstances, she will continue to do it.

 

She needs to see that you are not willing to remain married to her under these circumstances. I would not only move out, but expose her affair at work to HR if you haven't already, contact a lawyer and have your divorce papers drawn up. Tell her that all the papers need is your signature, and if she will not leave her job and cut off all contact with the OM you will sign the papers and serve her with the divorce.

 

People who are in active affairs don't end them for altruistic reasons. They end them because they are either bored with the OP or busted and knocked off the fence by the threat of losing the status quo. She shows no signs of being bored, so its time to knock her ass off the fence.

 

The only blow strong enough to do it is the very real threat of losing you and her marriage. Its a gamble though. If she is ready to divorce with or without OM in her life, then she may well let you go. If she is not ready to divorce then she will fall on your side of the fence. She will have no choice.

 

As long as you stay, she has a choice to stay on the fence. Leave, and remove that choice.

[LifesontheUp]

I guess my whole point here is that I'm dyig inside and wondering what to do, becuse she is not over it/him, which means "affair" in her head, even though it culminated w/ a ONS. Her thoughts on this tell me it's not over. Is there a way out of this besides me leaving, or her quitting job immediately? I'd prefer to do neither right away, but don't see how.

 

Ok I was a bit confused as your post before this was on about an EA, yet this one states it became physical - a ONS? Sorry but how do you know they are going to stop at a ONS? Sounds to me she is in the "fog" if shes talking about staying friends with him.

 

I'm a firm believer that in order for NC to work, the affair partners should not work together. Yes, there will be others who say that they could make contact other ways. But if she is serious about saving your marriage then not seeing the OM in the work environment helps to close the opportunities for them to continue. It will also allow you to heal better. Take it from me you will likely become anxious and obsessed each time they are near each other at work......its no way to live.

 

I agree with LB its time to knock her off the fence. It is a risk. But I would pack her bags though. Why should you be the one to leave?

[Bryanp]

I am sorry for you but this is exactly what I and other stated at the beginning of your thread. Her story did not make sense, she had a crush on this guy from the beginning and had ever intention of having a ONS with this guy that evening.

 

The great problem of course really seems to be her lack of remorse to a degree. Sure she is now willing to quit her job if she has to in order to stay in the marriage but what does that truly mean? She tells you she is still not over having a crush on this guy and hates the thought that she was rejected by him at the end? Clearly she is not even close to "getting it". She seems to have no clue the damage she has inflicted on you, your relationship and your marriage. This is at least the second time that you know of that she has had feelings for another man where she works. She is clearly sending you messages that she devalues the importance of your feelings, relationship and your marriage. She sounds amazingly immature and sounds like a teenager.

 

The problem of being married to a woman who mentally acts likes a teenager is that it is of course doomed to failure. It is like holding an apple and wishing it was a tomato. It is not going to happen. Her willingness to quit her job sounds self-serving because you backed her up against the wall and she ran out of options. Because she clearly does not understand the damage she has inflicted on you, herself and your marriage; I am afraid it will just be a matter of time down the road that she will develop another one of these crushes. Again I very sorry for you that this is what you end up with in your marriage.

[Tomcat33]

Finally some thoughts that shadow my own. The posts by the last four people who posted were bang on, IMO.

 

There is no way around it as I see it, actions speak louder than words. The only thing that will make a cheater understand that there is 0 tolerance for what has happened has got to be displayed in actions. No amount of sitting down and demanding and talking and hoping for what one wants is going to make another person change their actions (in some cases), seeing that they literally are losing the BS will.

 

Of course in order for this to happen, you have to be prepared that walking could end in a final decision to stay that way. Unless you are prepared to walk the talk then you might as well stick around and fight for demands that wil likely never be put into place

 

Unless she came to you voluntairily and said "I am quitting my job, I need to do what is right for our life together" it is a losing battle.

 

People stray from relationships because their needs are not being met. Then once the distance happends the heart becomes open to someone else and an A happens, of course the excemption is serial cheaters their needs are never met they are just broken (send those back to the plant for re-manufacturing) Staying in a marriage with the heart still open to another person and trying to fix what was originally wrong PLUS all the aftermath of the hurt of the A itself is a recipe for a long drawn out cesspool of pain. Distance offers leverage, equality of playing field and depth of thought vs actions.

 

I re-read the original post on the other thread and this woman sounds more concerned with her "friendship" with this prick she works with than with the friendship she just ruined with you Burning. I hate to say but she is lost in a BIG way. Read Mattym's thread, your W sounds just like him in that she is prirotizing the wrong things. He came back to post about how he finally ended the A, after months of waffling back and forth, and claiming that he finally did the right thing to get rid of the OW and is so happy he is doing what he wanted all along to be with his W etc. and yeterday or the day before he broke down and called the OW again, and made a complete fool of himself (his words not mine).

[Cobra_X30]

I guess my whole point here is that I'm dyig inside and wondering what to do, becuse she is not over it/him, which means "affair" in her head, even though it culminated w/ a ONS. Her thoughts on this tell me it's not over. Is there a way out of this besides me leaving, or her quitting job immediately? I'd prefer to do neither right away, but don't see how.

 

Burning.

 

All your wife has done is confirm what you already know!

 

I asked you at the start, and I ask you again. How happy is/was your wife in this marriage? You cannot blame a crush on insecurity! If this is the case... you cant fix it. It means she is so broken and insecure you can never trust her anywhere!

 

I feel it is most likely that she is unhappy with you in some way. Now, it seems pretty obvious that she is not going to tell why. Dont dig too hard for it, she may lie, or it may not be something you want to hear! Just know that its more than likely there, watch how she interacts with you and form some idea's.

 

Also, you want her to do what is right without blunt force trauma from you. See if she decides to quit on her own.

 

Right now you still seem like Mr. Backup to me in the way she is thinking! Like HR guy rejected her, so time to go running back to the H. Is that not how this feels to you?

[LoisLane]

Listen, she's already cheating on you. She's just like all these OW who find joy in wrecking other people's marriages. Is the boss married?? I would call his wife up and tell her how low her husband is! Just show your cheating wife the bloody door already!! Get it over and done with it!

[Trialbyfire]

I guess my whole point here is that I'm dyig inside and wondering what to do, becuse she is not over it/him, which means "affair" in her head, even though it culminated w/ a ONS. Her thoughts on this tell me it's not over. Is there a way out of this besides me leaving, or her quitting job immediately? I'd prefer to do neither right away, but don't see how.

My first question is, do you own your home? If so, why are you leaving? If anything, she should be leaving, regardless if she wants to or not. I hope her bags were packed by you and left on the outside of the door...

 

So...she's now being more honest with the situation, in that she's willing to admit her EA which became a PA. Now that she's of the mind that he took advantage of her interest, press your demands that she continue taking this further with a sexual harassment case. What you want to do is to encourage this distaste between the two of them. Best case scenario, she loses the case and gets fired. Next best case, she wins her suit and he gets fired. Either way, any further feelings of like, will deteriorate.