Question about "attacks" on Christians

[quankanne]

Then maybe you should go say three prayers, sprinkle some water on you, and rub some beads to pay for your statement..

 

careful Moose ... that's the first step into pulling you into Catholic circles

 

the answer OP's question, why are there "attacks" on Christians?, is two-fold: On a social level, Christians get a bum wrap because while there are many who do live out the Good News with their lifestyle, there overshadowed by the loudmouths who preach one thing but live another or who make a mockery of the faith they preach. On a spiritual level, it's pretty much Satan directing warfare against the Truth of God – look at what's on TV and in the theatres that passes for "moral truth" about humanity, listen to what's on the radio and on TV, then look how it devalues humankind because the focus is on the here and now, on physicality, and doesn't feed the soul.

[shadowofman]

No evidence for a soul. Here and now is all too appearent.

Morality is subjective, not objective.

Just my rational response.

[Geishawhelk]

Morality is subjective, not objective.

 

Unquestionably so.

Where the crux lies is in deciding what to do once you've made your mind up what your morals are....

[shadowofman]

At that point, it's up to you to "crusade" for your morals. Nothing wrong with protesting abortion if you subjectively decide that it's murder. As long as you uphold societal morals in your crusade. i.e. nonviolence

If you morally hold violence to be virtuous, then you just have to try not to go to jail. I think most people would subjectively agree that violence is not virtuous.

[Phateless]

I don't post here often, but this is a question that I have had in general.

 

Why do Christians, of any denominational beliefs, get beat up by the people who don't believe as they do? I don't see this with Hindus, or Muslims, or Bhuddists, or other religions that I have encountered.

 

Why is the Christian expected to "prove" Christianity when no other religions can prove themselves either?

 

Why is it cool to be any religion other than a Christian?

 

Because I have never noticed any religion other than Christianity get so self-righteous and in my face about it. Yes I'm generalizing, but I'm operating strictly on my own observations here. There are a lot of Christians who have an extremely superior attitude and it irritates the critical thinkers like me.

 

At least, this is what I have personally observed.

[Geishawhelk]

Crusading is all very well. What I personally object to (as an ordinary human being, not as a Buddhist) is those people who morally crusade to "Stop War Now!" then go home and beat their wives... hypothetically and illustratively speaking....

[shadowofman]

Oh yeah, morality speaks not to hypocracy. What about the indulgences of anti-sex preachers? Or Christians that are supposed to turn the other cheek, yet are more pro-war, pro-capital punishment, pro-capitalism, etc?

I think the devil is confusing their understanding of Christ's words.

[Phateless]

The problem is that religious people are not taught to think critically, and they are not consistent. I think people need a genuine sense of right and wrong, and they need to learn to think for themselves instead of being led. Personally, I think religion is obsolete.

[Geishawhelk]

Oh yeah, morality speaks not to hypocracy. What about the indulgences of anti-sex preachers? Or Christians that are supposed to turn the other cheek, yet are more pro-war, pro-capital punishment, pro-capitalism, etc?

I think the devil is confusing their understanding of Christ's words.

 

well, I don't think hypocrisy is confined either to any specific group of people or a religion, although I take your point, given the forum.... And I'm sure you don't believe it is either.

 

Phateless, Not trying to bang my drum here (actively making effort to avoid it) but 'Religious people' could be said to include Buddhists, and I have to say this calling, more than any other I have encountered, actively encourages just that. Critical thinking and consistency.

It's why I'm drawn to it.

There's no 'come and believe', just 'come and see for yourself'.

It's a distinction I felt compelled to clarify.

Apologies.

[shadowofman]

The problem is that religious people are not taught to think critically, and they are not consistent. I think people need a genuine sense of right and wrong, and they need to learn to think for themselves instead of being led. Personally, I think religion is obsolete.

I agree that the religious need to learn critical thinking and consistency, but I think they have an overdeveloped sense of right and wrong. Black and white. Good and evil. They need to look at the world more for the shades of gray. Everyone is capable of good and evil. Some people think they are good when they kill.

People need to subjectively define their morals and stick with them. Who am I to suggest that their morals are wrong if they don't agree with mine? I don't concider a fetus to be a human, but I cannot condemn someone for arbitrarily deciding that life begins at conception. I'll do my best to convince you that this is not the case, but ultimately, I should not force my subjective morals on anyone.

And yes hypocracy lives everywhere. Religion, politics, our own personal relationships. I know I'm a hypocrite in several ways. But, I do my best to correct this often. I try to further define my morals, not based on ancient text, but critical thinking.

[Geishawhelk]

I try to further define my morals, not based on ancient text, but critical thinking.

 

YOU'RE BUDDHIST - !!

 

(just yankin' yer chain.... )

[shadowofman]

YOUR an atheist!

[Geishawhelk]

Oh sacre bleu, touch-e!

[sally4sara]

One of reasons that people choose to release murder and want to kill Jesus was because they were jealous, can you believe that? jealousy made them kill a most innocent man in human history, maybe they feel jealousy when see blessing that God gives, people are crazy

 

And lucky for you they were so jealous! Otherwise the kingdom would never be your's.

[Moai]

I don't post here often, but this is a question that I have had in general.

 

Why do Christians, of any denominational beliefs, get beat up by the people who don't believe as they do? I don't see this with Hindus, or Muslims, or Bhuddists, or other religions that I have encountered.

 

Why is the Christian expected to "prove" Christianity when no other religions can prove themselves either?

 

Why is it cool to be any religion other than a Christian?

 

Where are Christians getting beat up?

 

If you are referring to threads here, the reason it seems to you that Christians are being singled out is because there are only Christians here debating. If a Muslim came in making the same claims as Christians do (and they do on other forums to which I belong) I would challenge them, too.

[Moai]

And on a side note, why are Hindu, or Muslim, or Bhuddist children allowed to observe their faith in American schools and Christians aren't?

 

Nobody is forbidden to practice their faith in public schools in the US. Where do you get this from?

[Moai]

Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism are generally quite peaceful, tolerant religions.

 

Not true. Islam is by far the bloodiest religion going today, Hindus beat up and kill Sikhs all the time (and vice versa), and Buddhists attack both Christians AND Muslims.

 

While no religion has a corner on peace, none have a corner on violence, either. In point of fact, Western Christians are by far the most peaceful religious people on Earth.

 

Buddhists are taught to respect and tolerate all living things, even people who aren't Buddhists.

 

And yet they don't.

 

They have no dice with anyone else, hence no-one seems to have any dice with them.

 

Its the Islamic extremists that give Islam a bad name, the general principles of Islam are to do with peace and acceptance.

 

Nope. Islam is very specific about violence, and the need to use it against unbelievers. Those who argue the Islam is the religion of peace are either lying, or are moderates who twist the Koran to say what it doesn't.

[Moai]

Its not physical assaults, its the radical atheist who butts into a religious thread or service to say all you believe is wrong, you are a fool.

 

I am not aware of anyone butting into a religious service to argue atheism. Do you have a link to such a story?

 

Forums are open and public, and anyone can comment as they wish. I know Moose started a thread and asked that atheists observe, and I have respected his request, but all he can do is ask. Again, public forum.

 

When he reads about what Pope X in year Y ................did this and that with a challenge he starts to ask where is the post questioning Islam, Hindi or other faith with as much thought and research time.

 

If a Muslim came in here I'd be happy to have a go. I do on other forums. Ironically, they resort to quoting scripture, too.

 

Of course the Christopher Hitchens of the world say they have the right, no, the responsibility to intrude because a Jehovah's Witness once knocked on their door or TBN takes up one of their channels.

 

Guess what: He does have the right. See, there is this thing called "freedom of expression" that gives him the right to address any issues he wants to. You have the right not to read his books (I am sure you don't), but that is the way the ball bounces.

 

Not only that, but theists everywhere set up debates with him (or Dawkins or Harris) and people flock to see them. Most people enjoy the free exchange of ideas. Sorry you don't.

[Geishawhelk]

Moai, I completely agree with you regarding Buddhist 'violence' towards other faiths.

But might I elaborate that I think this seems to be confined to Indonesia, for some reason?

And perhaps you will admit that violence in Buddhism is not as historically protracted or widespread as in other religions.

That said, speaking for myself as a Buddhist, any amount of intolerance, non-acceptance and violence is unacceptable to me, personally. One bit of agression is one bit too many, no matter who's doing what to whom.

Thank you for clarifying this. I think you're quite right to illustrate there's no exemption.

[Moai]

Moai, I completely agree with you regarding Buddhist 'violence' towards other faiths.

But might I elaborate that I think this seems to be confined to Indonesia, for some reason?

 

Southeast Asia, yes.

 

And perhaps you will admit that violence in Buddhism is not as historically protracted or widespread as in other religions.

 

I don't know, honestly. I am only aware of what is going on now and in the recent past. I am not aware of a Buddhist holy war.

 

That said, speaking for myself as a Buddhist, any amount of intolerance, non-acceptance and violence is unacceptable to me, personally. One bit of agression is one bit too many, no matter who's doing what to whom.

Thank you for clarifying this. I think you're quite right to illustrate there's no exemption.

 

I think that over time Buddhism has become more dogmatic, and as religions become more dogmatic, they become more violent. Or so it would seem.

[Geishawhelk]

The progress of anything is likened to a swinging pendulum...

Things flow with extremes, but eventually, the swing calms, things stabilise and everything finds its centre.

Buddhism seems, like anything else, tocurrently be going through an evolutionary swing...Burma has hit the headlines, and Tibet has always been bubbling on a back-burner. Both situations have ignited various degrees of emotions in many (Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike) but Buddhists directly involved have reacted variously, from peaceful denouncing of the injustice, to very recently, the other extreme....

Whilst oriental Buddhism is undergoing a transformative metamorphosis (relaxation on bikkhunis and their status, revival of certain traditions) Buddhism in the West is in a gentler, embryonic more tentative state..

So there Is Buddhism is in a Yin-Yang state, and Within that Yin-Yang, there is a further dynamic of Yin-Yang...

 

Just thought I'd diversify and add another fork to the fondue pot....

Thank you for listening....

[JamesM]

Because I have never noticed any religion other than Christianity get so self-righteous and in my face about it. Yes I'm generalizing, but I'm operating strictly on my own observations here. There are a lot of Christians who have an extremely superior attitude and it irritates the critical thinkers like me.

 

At least, this is what I have personally observed.

 

I do not know what your experiences are, but as a Christian, I agree. Some Christians are that way, and they do not listen to whom they are talking. But I can say that the majority of Christians IRL and on the internet are not that way at all. However, I can say that this does go both ways. I have had talks IRL with atheists or agnoctics, and I have been on this forum and others. My experiences is that Christians do not have the corner on this attitude. In general, I find it not to be the case. My personal experience on the internet has been that those who are anti-God tend to be as dogmatic as religious folks. And when you read books by Richard Dawkins (such as The God Delusion), then you quickly find that humor and jabs replace many rational thoughts. He has some excellent points, but many of us who he is trying to convert, or rather deconvert, are so turned off by the arrogant disdain, we skim through his points rather than weed out the bluster and name calling. (BTW, I do think he is an excellent writer, but sometimes his choice of words bely his intelligence). I have seen this in other books by Pennock and Hitchens as well. I imagine if an atheist read some of the books that are written by Christians or Jews or Muslims, he or she would have the same feelings.

 

If you visit the forum where atheists are, then you will quickly notice that Christians are certainly not treated with a respectful and rational attitude when they post. Far from it. We are given names such as "fundies" and "ID-iots" as ways to demean and I guess break the credibility of God and the Bible. And while I know that all atheists are not like that, it can give one the impression that this is normal. While they bemoan the fact that Christians are irrational and intolerant, they use terminology and display attitudes which make those Christians appear gentle and passive.

 

I enjoy discussions with those who disagree with me, but when the discussion turns to name calling or the use of demeaning language then it is no longer instructive.

 

Why do Christians, of any denominational beliefs, get beat up by the people who don't believe as they do? I don't see this with Hindus, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or other religions that I have encountered.

 

It has been said at least in the US, that it is because Christianity is the dominant belief. This is partly true, but it is also because Christianity (like Muslims) is exclusive. It states that there is one way to salvation and that is through Jesus Christ.

 

Personally, I have found on here that Christians per se are not beaten up, it is those who believe in a God. Moai said it as I see it, too...if there were Muslims or Jews posting on the Spirituality Board, they would also be "attacked" in the same way.

[NoIDidn't]

"Attacks" is in quotes. Nowhere was it ever insinuated that Christians were being "beat up". I just notice that on this forum Christians seem to take a verbal lashing for just stating that they are Christians mostly.

 

For the record, I am a Christian. And a critical thinker. I too dislike that many of the Christians that I know have a "do as you are told" attitude versus a "read the bible and find out for yourself" attitude.

 

Maybe my own understanding of Christianity blinds me to the so-called "outrageous" claims being made by Christians. I just don't see it. Moose stated that the scriptures have been held up as the proof of the claims. I understand that that is no enough for some, but that is all that one can really say. Anything more would be oral history, or worst yet, personal experience. Those two would be eaten alive in a quest for proof, and thusly invalidated.

 

I just find it interesting that an entire religion is being judged as arrogant on the actions of just a few. The claims made in the Bible are for those that choose to believe them. And those that choose to believe them have no need to defend them. Who could defend their god anyway? Who has actually met and seen their god? Has a god been on TV doing an interview?

 

That's why I ask the question. I don't understand the need to make Christians look ignorant just because another doesn't share the same beliefs or encountered an arrogant Christian or two hundred.

 

And its not just this board. Its everywhere. But I live in the Bible Belt, so I can't say I see it much. But what I do see is a lot of misinformed, misguided, and biblically illiterate Christians (which is even more unfortunate).

[NoIDidn't]

Wait, I did use "beat up" in the OP, huh? My bad. I meant the verbal beatdowns where their intelligence is constantly brought into question.

[disgracian]

I teach in a school with children of other faiths and no religion is observed. There is a moment of silence every morning, but no prayer. As a Christian I really don't understand the push to have prayer lead over the intercom. No one can stop me from praying when and where I chose. I pray everyday in the cafeteria before my lunch and no one runs up to me and says stop that I am offended.

You are truly a woman of perception and insight. I wish there were more Christians who thought as you do.

 

Cheers,

D.