BklynGuy Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I can have sex with a female without loving her, but can't love a female without sex, it's just a necessary component of the relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 A man can have sex (if that is what you call masturbation w porn) without experiencing love. A man cannot experience love without sex. The man's relationship between sex and love is asymmetric. (It goes one way but not the other). Got it? In "logical" terms: sex is a necessary component of love, but it is not sufficient. As an analogy, consider getting pregnant. A woman can have sex without getting pregnant. A woman cannot get pregnant without sex. Sex is a necessary component of pregnancy, but it is not sufficient. Brilliant answer. I completely agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I disagree with cobra here. Sure, there's a control aspect. This could mean different things to different people, but commonly dominance in bed, gaining access to a woman. Women have to allow us to enter them. Men do may things to gain this access. It's a condition of the physics of sex. Men give, women receive. Men could give it to a melon, but prefer women. Neither requires love. Women are picker about who (and what) they let in and typically do require strong feelings. No offense Shadow, but your not exactly the typical guy! In fact, when I said there are exceptions, I was thinking of you! Link to post Share on other sites
lonelybird Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I could be in love with someone, but still want a one night with someone I don't love. Love and sex are two different things. so love isn't about fully committing yourself to the only one you love? love means sacrifice:p Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don’t know if someone (maybe even me) asked this question before, but there is something I simply can’t understand: On one hand, men are telling us how they cannot feel loved unless they have sex - and therefore equate love and emotional connection with sex – (look at all those ‘sexless marriage’ threads)On the other hand, they keep telling us how sex is departmentalized in a male brain and has little (or nothing ) to do with emotions (look at ‘H masturbates to porn/other women’ type of threads)Can any man out there explain this contradiction to me? Yup...easy....the there are some men that believe the first idea...there are some men that believe the 2nd. Not all men think the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Not all women are routed equally, as well. Some can compartmentalize sex as an appetite, others can't. And so it goes for men, although more men are able to have sex without caring. Nature or nurture? I'm not convinced either way. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowplay Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 If a man actually shows emotion in return and he is a little sloppy in his approach. If a man is too smooth and too perfect it usually means he is just playing you and wants sex. If he is sloppy in his approach there is emotion involved and he is for real. what do you mean by "sloppy?" Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 what do you mean by "sloppy?" If a man is too perfect and too smooth chances are he has rehearsed these lines and this approach many times. Real emotion doesn't come out all smooth and perfect because it sincere and more spur of the moment so it has a more sloppy approach to it. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 No offense Shadow, but your not exactly the typical guy! In fact, when I said there are exceptions, I was thinking of you! Oh cobra, I am typical in some ways though. Typical American men are very promiscuously oriented, maybe not toward other men like me, but promiscuous none the less. so love isn't about fully committing yourself to the only one you love? love means sacrifice lonleybird....I don't think so. No one should ever have to sacrifice anything for me, in fact I think that she should do more of what makes her happy. Commit to loving is fine with me. Life partnership is a commitment that requires no sacrifice. A man cannot experience love without sex. I completely disagree. Sorry guys, but I have loved who I could not touch. Didn't stop me from wanting to touch, but I didn't. Often, a new love that will allow touching will distract you. But you can love without sex. It's one of those things that just helps. Link to post Share on other sites
3rdI Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 This may be off point...but even within a relationship you have different kinds of sex for different reasons. Sometimes I ask for a quickie...no emotion involved just a sexual release. I like it all kinds of ways and I ask him and he asks me to give it to him in certain manners. He needs the connection more than I do sometimes...I like the sport of it the physical performance aspect....for example...I like to show him that I am good in bed and that I CAN PWHIP him. Link to post Share on other sites
cj1988 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I agree, sex can be dirty, fun, passionate, loving and everytime be all or just one of those. Sometimes, I give him head and that is it ! Sometimes he does me and that is it....sometimes we hold each other and shake, sometimes we laugh and cant move ! So, emotion if you love someone is always there, no matter if you show it or not when you are with them and at that moment ! Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Oh cobra, I am typical in some ways though. Typical American men are very promiscuously oriented, maybe not toward other men like me, but promiscuous none the less. It's not your view on promiscuity which makes you different shadow! You should recognize that by now. I've read your posts, and have identified that you do not have the same possesiveness that other men typically do! Now, to address your original question though. I think our difference is in our terminology. See, when I say a man feels loved, in a ONS, you may disagree with the word love in that statement. However I think it fits aptly. A ONS has to have an emotional component, even if it is a feeling that you recieve and do not return. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Thanks Cobra, but it seems to me that some people are saying that a one night stand is an expression of love. Maybe not from the man, but from the women (as far as the man preceives it goes)? I just disagree. Love and sex are not related in any way. And the last thing that a guy wants is for the girl to love him. That's why they avoid phone calls the next morning. You can love the person you are having sex with or you don't have to love them. You CAN be in love with out sex. Everyone can, and you are just not thinking clearly if you say you can't. I can have sex with a female without loving her, but can't love a female without sex, it's just a necessary component of the relationship. So if BklynGuy's wife of 20 years were to come down with a condition were she couldn't have sex anymore, he would cease to love her. This is false. Everyone needs love and everyone needs sex, but neither are required for the other to be a need. Maybe desired for most, but not nessessary. Hypothetical Couple, married 20 years, wife is horribly raped and never wants to have sex again therapy and a loving family has done little to help the emotional scarring and the loss of libido persists................. 1. Will the husband stop loving his wife because she doesn't want sex? 2. Will he ignore his interest in sex because he loves her? 3. Will the relationship fail not because of loss of love, but because of the lack of sex? IMO, number 3. The husband will continue loving his wife, and unless he can have the sex he craves, the relationship will most likely fail. Link to post Share on other sites
InLimbo2 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 simple: love requires sex sex does not require love and I'm female I don’t know if someone (maybe even me) asked this question before, but there is something I simply can’t understand: On one hand, men are telling us how they cannot feel loved unless they have sex - and therefore equate love and emotional connection with sex – (look at all those ‘sexless marriage’ threads)On the other hand, they keep telling us how sex is departmentalized in a male brain and has little (or nothing ) to do with emotions (look at ‘H masturbates to porn/other women’ type of threads) Can any man out there explain this contradiction to me? Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 But how can any of you say that love requires sex? I just don't understand this. This statement makes love out to be a selfish act. "I'm not going to love you unless you have sex with me." Usually, I'm the insensative one, and even I place love above the physical. You all have to admit that there are at least some instances where sex is not nessessary for love. Therefore it isn't nessessary at all. It's just an incredable desire to want to have sex with the one you happen to love. Please, someone acknowledge this fact. Or am I really this crazy? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 But how can any of you say that love requires sex? I just don't understand this. This statement makes love out to be a selfish act. "I'm not going to love you unless you have sex with me." Usually, I'm the insensative one, and even I place love above the physical. You all have to admit that there are at least some instances where sex is not nessessary for love. Therefore it isn't nessessary at all. It's just an incredable desire to want to have sex with the one you happen to love. Please, someone acknowledge this fact. Or am I really this crazy? Love does not require sex. There are couples out there that can't have sex and yet they find ways to express their love for one another. I totally agree that sex is not necessary for love. It all depends on what stage you're at in life and your personal wants and desires. For me, I'd like to be able to remember my sexual relationship with my then husband when we're both in our 80s. Obviously our sex life will slowly die down...but the memory of the physical connection will last a lifetime. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 It is possible to have sex without love but what is the point of being with somebody that doesn't want to have sex with you. How can a person claimto love you and then deny you the most intimate and pleasurable experience you can have with a partner. I can understand if there was some sort of illness but if a woman constantly denies me sex I will question her love for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 It is possible to have sex without love but what is the point of being with somebody that doesn't want to have sex with you. How can a person claimto love you and then deny you the most intimate and pleasurable experience you can have with a partner. I can understand if there was some sort of illness but if a woman constantly denies me sex I will question her love for me. If it is a joint decision (for whatever reason) then it is not selfish. It's when one partner withholds sex from the other that it becomes a selfish act. Sexually compatibility is incredibly important...some people would be OK with having sex very infrequently while others want it far more often. It is not the lack of sex or whatever, is the intention of the parties that defines whether it is selfish. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Just debating the claimed connection between love and sex. Two different things! We all just tend to want sex with the ones we love. Just like most people do not require love to have sex. Two seperate things. one is an emotion, one an action. Neither requires the other. I'm sorry, but my wifes body is hers. If for whatever reason she decided that she didn't want sex anymore, that is her business, and it would be selfish of me to demand sex from her. All that being said, most people in love or not would demand sex, or leave for someone they could love and have sex with. This I think would be concidered an acceptable selfish act. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Just debating the claimed connection between love and sex. Two different things! We all just tend to want sex with the ones we love. Just like most people do not require love to have sex. Two seperate things. one is an emotion, one an action. Neither requires the other. I'm sorry, but my wifes body is hers. If for whatever reason she decided that she didn't want sex anymore, that is her business, and it would be selfish of me to demand sex from her. All that being said, most people in love or not would demand sex, or leave for someone they could love and have sex with. This I think would be concidered an acceptable selfish act. Withholding sex from your partner as some sort of manipulative technique is selfish. So is leaving because you are not getting sex (without hearing what your partner has to say). Like I said, it's all about intention. If you can't understand why you partner does/does not want sex and you are too emotionally lazy to make the effort to find out why, then you (and I mean the generic you here) are selfish. Sex and its importance varies from couple to couple. What is important is that the couple is on the same page in terms of frequency, etc. To withhold information/feelings/sex due to ill intentions is selfish and damaging. And while it's great that you respect that is it your wife's body...do you not deserve to at least ask her why she doesn't want sex anymore? Staying silent or "just" accepting the situation is equally contributive to any problems that may arise as a result. Link to post Share on other sites
Passionate69 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Sex with love is feeling more exciting and great ! sex without love still good. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra_X30 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Just debating the claimed connection between love and sex. Two different things! We all just tend to want sex with the ones we love. Just like most people do not require love to have sex. Two seperate things. one is an emotion, one an action. Neither requires the other. I'm sorry, but my wifes body is hers. If for whatever reason she decided that she didn't want sex anymore, that is her business, and it would be selfish of me to demand sex from her. All that being said, most people in love or not would demand sex, or leave for someone they could love and have sex with. This I think would be concidered an acceptable selfish act. I pointed this out earlier. Love means different things to different people. It's an extremely vague word as it is used in todays society. To me... Love is an action, just as sex is. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Withholding sex from your partner as some sort of manipulative technique is selfish. So is leaving because you are not getting sex (without hearing what your partner has to say). Like I said, it's all about intention. If you can't understand why you partner does/does not want sex and you are too emotionally lazy to make the effort to find out why, then you (and I mean the generic you here) are selfish. Sex and its importance varies from couple to couple. What is important is that the couple is on the same page in terms of frequency, etc. To withhold information/feelings/sex due to ill intentions is selfish and damaging. And while it's great that you respect that is it your wife's body...do you not deserve to at least ask her why she doesn't want sex anymore? Staying silent or "just" accepting the situation is equally contributive to any problems that may arise as a result. I would absolutely ask her why she doesn't want sex. And to withhold for manipulation is selfish. I do agree with you on almost all points Ocean-Blue. But to expect or demand more sex from a partner that might have little to no interest in sex is manipulative and selfish. My only point is that sex and love are different. I pointed this out earlier. Love means different things to different people. It's an extremely vague word as it is used in todays society. To me... Love is an action, just as sex is. I can agree with this. It sounds great anyway. I think if we are going to be literal, than love is not an action. It may be the cause of good deeds or actions, but I am attempting to show contrast between love and sex. At least in regards to the OP, and how men seem to be better able to seperate the two. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean-Blue Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I would absolutely ask her why she doesn't want sex. And to withhold for manipulation is selfish. I do agree with you on almost all points Ocean-Blue. But to expect or demand more sex from a partner that might have little to no interest in sex is manipulative and selfish. My only point is that sex and love are different. I agree. There is no place for demands in a relationship. And while sex and love are different, romantic love usually entails sex. Link to post Share on other sites
tommyr Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 .But to expect or demand more sex from a partner that might have little to no interest in sex is manipulative and selfish. Define partner. If you just mean a boyfriend or girlfriend, then I agree about no expectations or demands. If sexual need's (which have been clearly articulated and expressed) are not being met then this kind of partnership should simply end. But what about a marriage partner? Assume you had an active and mutually enjoyable sexlife prior to marriage, or at the very least you thoroughly discussed views on sex before getting married. In this case, I would disagree with you shadowman. Partners in marriage DO have expectations of sex ... some marital vows even mention things like to have and to hold .... become one flesh. Let me qualify slightly by saying it is reasonable to have general expectations of sex (not specific demands) of a marriage partner. Link to post Share on other sites
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