Refrain from sex?

[tommyr]

We are all 100% responsible for our own happiness. When one person changes (and I mean a fundamental change), the situation cannot remain the same. The status quo has been disrupted.

 

Could not agree more!....but I was sure surprised to then here you end with....

 

Appreciate your wife.....you will NOT be thinking, "man, I didn't get enough sex!"

 

Of course cranium should appreciate his wife!! But from what I read, cranium has some pretty reasonable needs (in my view) that are not being filled. Sex less than once per week usually ending without his orgasm? Sorry but I would not be a happy husband in your house either.

 

You mentioned she suggested you get vasectomy - are you willing to do that? While I do not think that getting snipped should be a prerequisite to sex with your wife, if it really is not a big deal for you then maybe it could be a way to make sex more "intimate" experience.

 

Thinking back to the marriagebuilder questionaire, did you both discuss the outcome of that questionare? Was there any agreement to work on some specific needs? Are each of you following through with those commitments?

[cranium]

When you did the marriage builder questionnaire - what was HER primary needs? Are you fulfilling them with the same enthusiasm and selfless love that you expect her to fulfill your sexual needs?

 

My suggestion to you: appreciate the sex you have

 

Hers are affection and conversation. I’d like to think I am, yes. The questionnaires, books, etc.. were my attempts to bring us closer, so I’ve tried to pay attention.

 

Next time you have sex with your wife, take a moment to appreciate the moment. Notice how warm and soft she is.

She’ll tell me I’m going in slow motion.

 

Right now, you are angry at her because she isn't giving you exactly what you need. Why does it have to be ONLY vaginal sex? Maybe it's what you prefer, but there are other ways. Why don't you get her off 90%, masturbate in front of her without a condom, and then finish her off with a toy? That is a good compromise.

Do you tell her she is beautiful? Do you look in her eyes and at her body in a way that makes her feel wanted?

 

Do you cuddle on the couch without it turning sexual? Just cuddle her to be affectionate? How about holding her hand, just to be sweet?

 

Do you ever just swing her around and laugh and smile? Do you give her a bear hug and kiss the top of her head? Why does intimacy only have to be sex? Many women feel resentful that their husbands only get affectionate when they want sex.

 

Don't expect years of resentment and habit to melt away overnight. Focus on appreciating, and not taking for granted, what is right in front of you.

 

That’s my question – Why does it have be only vaginal sex? That’s her requirement. That's why she suggested a vasectomy.

I like your compromise suggestion; I’ve got others. Dream on.

Yes, I tell her she is beautiful and yes to each of your other questions except the last. I get what you’re saying hidee, I really do.

 

We are all 100% responsible for our own happiness.

 

Since you can't make another person change, all you can do is change yourself. I know, it's easier to blame the other. But...no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to keep the status quo. You choose to complain, rather than appreciate. You choose to give power to resentment.

 

Gandhi said this- be the change you want to see in others. And...what you resist will persist, and grow in power.

 

My fiancé killed himself less than a year ago. And not too long ago, I faced death myself. And today, I have a new relationship and I am happier than ever before. I choose to be happy. So many of my fellow survivors are still stuck on the past. But...all we have is the present. The past has happened. The future is uncertain. All we have, seriously, is the now.

 

Appreciate your wife. Appreciate your children. Appreciate your health, the fact that you're alive. Before you know it, you'll be facing death, and trust me, when you face death, you will NOT be thinking, "man, I didn't get enough sex!" Instead, you'll be thinking, "I wish I had been more forgiving/loving/understanding/etc.."

 

Thanks, hidee. You’re right; all we have is now. In addition to relationship books, I just finished reading Eckhart Tolle’s – A New Earth. Maybe my way of being responsible for my own happiness at present is to chose to change the status quo as far as sex is concerned. It’s hard to argue with appreciate your wife, your children, life…

 

You mentioned she suggested you get vasectomy - are you willing to do that? While I do not think that getting snipped should be a prerequisite to sex with your wife, if it really is not a big deal for you then maybe it could be a way to make sex more "intimate" experience.

 

Thinking back to the marriagebuilder questionaire, did you both discuss the outcome of that questionare? Was there any agreement to work on some specific needs? Are each of you following through with those commitments?

 

I haven’t ruled out a vasectomy, but that won't solve everything.

 

We both read and discussed the questionnaires and agreed to work on some specific needs. We are following through for the most part with the glaring exception of my sexual fulfillment questionnaire. I could write almost exactly the same thing today.

[Mz. Pixie]

Of course cranium should appreciate his wife!! But from what I read, cranium has some pretty reasonable needs (in my view) that are not being filled. Sex less than once per week usually ending without his orgasm? Sorry but I would not be a happy husband in your house either.

 

 

Exactly.

 

He is to meet her needs and she is to meet his. From what I can tell, she is not meeting her end of the bargain.

 

This is an action on her part that in some marriages could lead to an affair. Which would then be his fault according to most standards. Not saying he will have an affair, I don't think he will. But what about her responsibility to make love to her husband??

 

When a man gets married he agrees to have sex with just that woman going forward. Just one woman. So imagine how he feels when that one woman decides she wants to always set the standards as far as sex goes! Or doesn't want to even have sex anymore??? See the problem here?

 

I cannot even begin to fathom my asking my partner to satisfy me, but continually not satisfy him. Continually. Not just every once in a while. That would be just downright selfish.

 

Ms. C just doesn't get that when she rejects her husband sexually it rejects part of who he is. It's a very strong need for him, and for most men.

 

I think every woman should read "What every woman should know" which is I believe by Shauntie Feldman. It's an eye opener!!!

 

I'm sorry C- this whole topic just frustrates me. I know how hard you've worked in this marriage and to see her feel entitled to do this to you just pisses me off. (rant over)

[Virgo1982]

Exactly.

 

He is to meet her needs and she is to meet his. From what I can tell, she is not meeting her end of the bargain.

 

This is an action on her part that in some marriages could lead to an affair. Which would then be his fault according to most standards. Not saying he will have an affair, I don't think he will. But what about her responsibility to make love to her husband??

 

When a man gets married he agrees to have sex with just that woman going forward. Just one woman. So imagine how he feels when that one woman decides she wants to always set the standards as far as sex goes! Or doesn't want to even have sex anymore??? See the problem here?

 

I cannot even begin to fathom my asking my partner to satisfy me, but continually not satisfy him. Continually. Not just every once in a while. That would be just downright selfish.

 

Ms. C just doesn't get that when she rejects her husband sexually it rejects part of who he is. It's a very strong need for him, and for most men.

 

I think every woman should read "What every woman should know" which is I believe by Shauntie Feldman. It's an eye opener!!!

 

I'm sorry C- this whole topic just frustrates me. I know how hard you've worked in this marriage and to see her feel entitled to do this to you just pisses me off. (rant over)

 

I agree and I think it's a bit easier for her to take a pill everyday, than for him to get a vasectomy. I'm not saying you should hold the fact that she cheated over her head for the rest of your lives, but if you were willing to make it work after that, she definitely needs to roll her sleeves up...

[michaelk]

True, we only know Craniums side of the story, however, I can tell you as the backstory that his wife had an affair. Cranium has worked hard in this marriage.

 

So his W had an affair, and now gives him sex as if it's an obligation, with no consideration for whether he's enjoying it or not. I wonder if she was always this way? Because if this is a behavioral change that came on with the affair, it paints a different picture of what's going on inside her head.

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks, hidee. You’re right; all we have is now. In addition to relationship books, I just finished reading Eckhart Tolle’s – A New Earth. Maybe my way of being responsible for my own happiness at present is to chose to change the status quo as far as sex is concerned. It’s hard to argue with appreciate your wife, your children, life…

 

I haven’t ruled out a vasectomy, but that won't solve everything.

 

We both read and discussed the questionnaires and agreed to work on some specific needs. We are following through for the most part with the glaring exception of my sexual fulfillment questionnaire. I could write almost exactly the same thing today.

 

Your wasting your life Cranium!

 

I've read some of your past stuff, and typically I dont comment. But right here right now... Tell me why this woman is worth your effort!!!

 

I dont think you can give me a reason, and I think you've spent years lieing to yourself that you can somehow make her love you! She doesnt love you, I dont think she even respects you.

 

If your just happy to sit next to her at the end of the day... then fine, but it sounds like you want more! That more, is something she will never be willing to give you.

 

Sorry, but some poeple are not worth the effort! If you can't put up a reasonable argument as to why your wife isnt one, then the answer should be obvious.

[michaelk]

I dont think you can give me a reason, and I think you've spent years lieing to yourself that you can somehow make her love you! She doesnt love you, I dont think she even respects you.

 

If your just happy to sit next to her at the end of the day... then fine, but it sounds like you want more! That more, is something she will never be willing to give you.

 

My thinking has been heading in this direction too.

• Wife had an affair
  
• She is not affectionate
  
• She does not care about his sexual needs

Sounds like she's keeping herself at arms length, as far as intimacy is concerned. Maybe she stopped loving him at some point and never regained it. The lack of intimacy and, as Cobra points out, respect sure seem like red flags to me.

[Cobra_X30]

My thinking has been heading in this direction too.

• Wife had an affair
  
• She is not affectionate
  
• She does not care about his sexual needs

Sounds like she's keeping herself at arms length, as far as intimacy is concerned. Maybe she stopped loving him at some point and never regained it. The lack of intimacy and, as Cobra points out, respect sure seem like red flags to me.

 

Dang... Ok, so I just re-read my post and it sounds overtly harsh.

 

Cranium, I very much apologize for approaching this in an angry tone. Please, accept my apology. I see that in your posts you are in anguish, and I somehow feel the need to get angry for you. To stick up for you.

 

I am sorry you are in this situation. If you need someone to talk to, I will make myself available. Just be warned in advance... I'm really not a big fan of your wife, as I believe she treats you very poor compared to what you deserve.

[cranium]

She might not be comfortable with her sexuality. Either way, she has to make an effort. I know she'd be devastated if you went to find a willing partner somewhere else and you would be a horrible, selfish, sexually-satisfied scumbag. I am sure of it.

 

He is to meet her needs and she is to meet his. From what I can tell, she is not meeting her end of the bargain.

 

This is an action on her part that in some marriages could lead to an affair. Which would then be his fault according to most standards. Not saying he will have an affair, I don't think he will. But what about her responsibility to make love to her husband??

 

When a man gets married he agrees to have sex with just that woman going forward. Just one woman. So imagine how he feels when that one woman decides she wants to always set the standards as far as sex goes! Or doesn't want to even have sex anymore??? See the problem here?

 

 

So his W had an affair, and now gives him sex as if it's an obligation, with no consideration for whether he's enjoying it or not. I wonder if she was always this way? Because if this is a behavioral change that came on with the affair, it paints a different picture of what's going on inside her head.

 

My thinking has been heading in this direction too.

 Wife had an affair

 She is not affectionate

 She does not care about his sexual needs

Sounds like she's keeping herself at arms length, as far as intimacy is concerned. Maybe she stopped loving him at some point and never regained it. The lack of intimacy and, as Cobra points out, respect sure seem like red flags to me.

 

Cranium, I very much apologize for approaching this in an angry tone. Please, accept my apology. I see that in your posts you are in anguish, and I somehow feel the need to get angry for you. To stick up for you.

 

Cobra, this might make you angry at me; we both had affairs. No, Mz. P, I won’t have another. Mine was many years ago and although I know there is no justification, I was a sexually satisfied scumbag for a few months. It ended quietly without my wife knowing.

 

I can only provide my interpretation of events, but essentially after we had been married several years the sex rules changed without any contribution from me. Every conversation I attempted became an argument instead. So, before and after my A, my concerns were never adequately addressed. I felt I couldn’t discuss; sex was not a safe topic to bring up.

 

My new role became utilitarian husband and father – wash, iron, cut grass, clean house, help with kids, deposit a paycheck, etc, but not to expect sexuality to be a part of our relationship.

 

Like ThumbingMyWay, we were in MC for four months before I caught her and OM. I’m not so naive as to not know I contributed to the condition of our marriage prior to her A. After being ignored for years and years, the desire on my part to show her much affection just wasn’t present. In steps Mr. young, unencumbered player.

 

At first, I didn’t admit my A. I thought I could take her A and work to resolve both of our issues. I came clean in MC for several reasons - to give her the opportunity to decide what she wanted to do; to establish new ground rules for open, honest communication if we were going to stay together and to again convey the seriousness of my issues in our marriage. If we were to reconcile, I had needs also.

 

For months after she found out about my A, she was preparing to leave. Eventually, she chose to stay and we’re definitely in a better place.

 

She is affectionate, but only in a non-sexual way. I think it comes down to what Virgo said; she’s not comfortable with her sexuality. She was comfortable enough to sneak around with her OM, bring him into our house and pay sexual attention to him, though.

 

Herein lies my continued frustration. She is not meeting her end of the bargain and she is not making the effort. I told her said exactly what Mz. P. said – you can’t marry someone and say “I’m the only person you can ever be sexual with again and by the way, I’m not going to be sexual.”

 

I really believe she has ghosts in her past (abuse, incest, I don’t know) that pre-date me and influence her sexuality. She quit MC when she was going to leave and has not agreed to go back. I’ve asked her to go talk to someone individually, but she hasn't made the effort there, either.

[Cobra_X30]

Cobra, this might make you angry at me; we both had affairs. No, Mz. P, I won’t have another. Mine was many years ago and although I know there is no justification, I was a sexually satisfied scumbag for a few months. It ended quietly without my wife knowing.

 

Cranium, my advice to you does not change with this information.

 

It does not matter that you had an affair. The results of your marriage were determined long before.

 

My gut says that she can be sexual with other men for one primary reason. It allows her to relieve whatever resentment and anger she holds against you. I would bet money if she married another man... he would suffer the same as you.

 

This is not love! It's not too late... you still have a chance. All that work you put into the M... thats not wasted. You have made yourself a better partner for it. GO, and find someone who appreciates that. Fear and rejection holds you bondage. Break free!

[michaelk]

All this history does is reinforce the need for the two of you to fix your communication problems. Before, it might have seemed that counseling focused on the sexual issues would be enough, but I see now that it goes deeper than this.

 

You were willing to come clean about your A so you could have honesty and open communication. You've bent over backwards to talk to her and re-establish intimacy. She refuses to go to counseling or even discuss the issue of sex. The burden is on her, at this point, to either pony up or concede that she's not willing to make the marriage work.

 

It may be true as you speculate that she's been scarred sexually, and this the reason for her reticence. But if it's true, things are pretty much out of your control. You've pushed and pushed, but ultimately she has to decide for herself that she's willing to open that Pandora's Box, and no amount of pleading on your part will make that happen. She's probably even scared of counseling for fear it will make her face the painful issues in her past.

 

So either for this reason, or because you've put in so much effort with no reciprocation on her part, it seems you have to choose between staying with the status quo or leaving. Sorry if this seems like an overly negative assessment.

[Virgo1982]

All this history does is reinforce the need for the two of you to fix your communication problems. Before, it might have seemed that counseling focused on the sexual issues would be enough, but I see now that it goes deeper than this.

 

You were willing to come clean about your A so you could have honesty and open communication. You've bent over backwards to talk to her and re-establish intimacy. She refuses to go to counseling or even discuss the issue of sex. The burden is on her, at this point, to either pony up or concede that she's not willing to make the marriage work.

 

It may be true as you speculate that she's been scarred sexually, and this the reason for her reticence. But if it's true, things are pretty much out of your control. You've pushed and pushed, but ultimately she has to decide for herself that she's willing to open that Pandora's Box, and no amount of pleading on your part will make that happen. She's probably even scared of counseling for fear it will make her face the painful issues in her past.

 

So either for this reason, or because you've put in so much effort with no reciprocation on her part, it seems you have to choose between staying with the status quo or leaving. Sorry if this seems like an overly negative assessment.

 

She does sound confused to me. We were talking about this same concept in the OW forum. Men or women who like to play innocent at home and dirty in the field. Marriage was created so that you can do whatever you'd like-well, mostly everything (that's a whole new thread) Anyway, if you don't feel comfortable to completely let go with the person you are joined to until death does you part, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH? Someone else. Cranium hit the nail on the head. I know when I was in the affair, he said he admired that his W had only been with him (I saw a website profile of hers that suggests otherwise) However, he complained that they hardly ever had sex (Virgo coughs-"Liar") and when they did (Closer to the truth) she was a missionary girl. Can you turn a housewife into a h0e? Apparently, you can. If the housewife loves her H enough, she'd be willing to do whatever it takes-especially something reasonable like what Cranium is asking for. I used to say I didn't understand why a woman would hold on to a man, but refuse to satisfy his needs. Now I do. It's either because she doesn't trust him, or she's selfish. Either way, the M won't work if she's not willing to look within. It will be one big heap of resentment.

[Darth Vader]

Her response is it doesn’t matter what she does, I’ll never be satisfied. She says she has talked with other female friends and they agree sex once a week should be adequate.

 

 

Try saying that to her when she hits that 30 something stage, and she's wanting sex all over the house!

[Darth Vader]

If your wife's not willing to do anything to contribute to the marriage, then end the marriage, because you're not in a marriage, but, you're in Bondage!

[annieo]

It sounds like the two of you are on a level playing field, infidelity-wise, so that is not an excuse for her withholding behavior. Although, having said that, some resentment/jealousy issues are not out of the question. Anger isn't logical, mathematical. Who cheated first? She might see her indiscretion as fair trade for yours, and therefore resent you for getting the two of you in this pickle in the first place.

[Virgo1982]

It sounds like the two of you are on a level playing field, infidelity-wise, so that is not an excuse for her withholding behavior. Although, having said that, some resentment/jealousy issues are not out of the question. Anger isn't logical, mathematical. Who cheated first? She might see her indiscretion as fair trade for yours, and therefore resent you for getting the two of you in this pickle in the first place.

 

Well he cheated first, but her infidelity was discovered before she found out about his infidelity. So, the only thing she could possibly say is, "you cheated first!" That seems pretty immature to me. There should be a level playing field, but if at least one partner fails to acknowledge the true root of marital strife, tension and resentment will persist. Both partners will be frustrated with the other partner's inability or resistance to see the cause of damaging effects. IOW, the blame game.