Get rid of my neediness, insecurity and depression...

[RecordProducer]

I think we are all making a big mistake here by treating this woman and her husband according to the western moral code. They are not western. I assumed that because RoseRen grew up in th UK, that she is assimilated in the western society, but she is not. Her mindset is completely eastern. She questions her selfishness and sees all people as pure, which is very cute, but it's not western. She understands that her husband was forced to get married. Frankly, he did show backbone by divorcing his wife, if he will really divorce her. It's more difficult to divorce than to say "no" in the first place. If RoseRen is his true love and he ends up disowned by his family due to his love, he won't be such a selfish pig. I don't think we understand their culture.

 

The real question is: are you going to be happy when he joins you? Will he be able to move to the UK? I hope you are not going to move where he lives. I would give myself a deadline. If he is not in your life by a certain date, let's say 18 months from now, then write him off. You don't want to waste your time on him. What's your occupation, RR?

 

Him not wanting you to be depressed and insecure is fine, but you can only fake it 'till you make it. Look, you have your own gut feeling that will tell you whether he is worth it or not. If you believe in him and your love, relax and love him. But if you have a gut feeling that this is all wrong, then be prepared to get hurt. Most relationships are destroyed by people directly: you feel that something is wrong and you start destroying the relationship with fights. My husband destroyed his marriages with divorce threats. Why did he threaten with divorce doesn't matter anymore. The problems couldbe solved, but the bigger picture is that he is screwed up. Your neediness comes from the fact that you're alone. You should be less available for him. The less time you spenmd with him the more independent you will feel and the more he will need you. Watch TV, read a book, go out with friends instead of talking to him all the time. You will feel better and he will miss you more. You are not really letting him miss you.

[norajane]

Agreed.

What now?

 

You have to start the process of detaching from him so that you can have a clearer mind about what is important to you and your life in the big picture. This will take time, and it will take some concerted effort.

 

Right now, I imagine thoughts of him are consuming you pretty much all day long. I would suggest scheduling some time that you set aside solely to think about how you're feeling and the rest of the time shut down any thoughts that come into your head about him. So, plan to think about him for an hour in the evening, and the rest of the day, when thoughts pop into your mind, tell yourself - NOT NOW, I'll think about that tonight.

 

The rest of the time, LIVE your life. I'm sure you have many things going on with work, friends, hobbies, exercise, etc. Focus on yourself and making yourself healthy. Focus on having some fun in your life. Focus on developing relationships with the friends who are right there with you. Meet new people and develop relationships with them. You won't feel so dependent on him if you feel good about your life and who you are. Don't underestimate the power of exercise - those endorphins are really powerful in giving you an emotional lift, plus you can get your frustrations out with lifting weights or pounding away on the treadmill.

 

Once you've had some weeks to create some distance between you and this guy, you'll have a clearer head and you can re-assess how you feel.

[RoseRen]

You have to start the process of detaching from him so that you can have a clearer mind about what is important to you and your life in the big picture. This will take time, and it will take some concerted effort.

 

Hey Nora... that's exactly what my H told me. That I need to stay away from him and clear my head. The mentioned concerns (in my first post) were the reasons for which he wanted me to do this NC. They were not faults according to him - but rather concerns that made him think that I wouldn't be happy with him and that would make him less confident about if he can start a new life with me afresh.

 

Me being so needy and depressive with HIM ALONE, is because of what happened and his opinion was staying away from him would may be clear my head and make me think that "He is the one for me and I can't live without him. So we need to get back together" or "How glad I am that I am away from him now! Good riddance to bad rubbish".

 

But then the condition was he wouldn't tempt me to talk to him by contacting me. He did mail me a couple of times and sends me offlines once in a while; but nothing romantic or enticing.

 

And I have not spoken to him for a week - not a single call, offline, mail or even a "missed call". This is very unusual of me, because we used to talk for like 2hrs minimum - after he was married. And it is difficult. The "no-comunication" challenge was for 30 days and I can find myself counting days now.

 

Your practical advices will surely help me. I hope so! Thanks again Nora.

[RoseRen]

I think we are all making a big mistake here by treating this woman and her husband according to the western moral code. They are not western.

 

I don't know if it is because of the culture. I should admit that I was very angry when I was first told that he married again. But then there were a lot of reasons why that anger died away -

He was the one who told me about his marriage. I didn't have to hear it from anyone else.

He gave me his private mobile number and spoke to me all those sleepless nights trying to console me.

He didn't blame me for anything. He just accepted that he had made the mistake.

 

And all this started within the first week of his second marriage. So though I felt angry at first - I thought that he still loves me. May be not romatically, but I'm still his best friend. I think that was made me trust his decision that he would divorce her and be back to me by 2008.

 

The only cultural difference I can feel is that we are very dependent on our parents. He is 28 and still used to live with his dad until y'day (when he was chucked out because of the divorce). I was dependent on my parents until I fell in love with him - and if it hadn't been for our affair I would be still dependent on our parents. Family honour and obedience to parents comes before individualism and personal needs I think.

 

The real question is: are you going to be happy when he joins you?

 

The difficult question! I have a problem. Lets take a typical conversation we have. He calls me (or I call him) and we have this very friendly chat and pull each others legs. Everything goes fine. Then he talks something romantic. And I get upset. Why? Because I have gone into my own world of thoughts -where I'm listening him tell me that he married someone. I don't know how to deal with this. I told him this. But he can't control my thoughts. All he can do is avoid telling me things that will trigger these thoughts. But for how long? So that is my problem. I will be happy with him if I can just get such stupid thoughts out of my head.

 

Things have changed in the past one week. Last Wednesday we were having this conversation about me having to change and get out of my depression and he having to change and get more independent. And the very same Saturday they had their talaaq done. So such things have made me feel better. Even I know divorcing is a very difficult thing to do. Already he is facing the repercurssions - being sent out of the apartment he was sharing with his dad, being asked to pay the dowry back in another 6 months time, having to provide for her financially a huge amount of money every month... its not very easy.

 

I know for sure that the legal divorce will eventually happen, because now they can't live together anymore - everyone knows that they are divorced. And she won't have him back and she is made that very clear. I think the fact that the Talaaq happened quite fast itself points to that. The only stopper would be finance. He needs to return all the dowry plus some compensation before the legal divorce. I'm having my therapy in the first quarter of 2008, which means I would be a bankrupt. So I can't help him either. I'm not stressed about the divorce for now.

 

I need to be first sure of what I want. May be this break will help me decide that.

 

Will he be able to move to the UK? I hope you are not going to move where he lives. I would give myself a deadline. If he is not in your life by a certain date, let's say 18 months from now, then write him off. You don't want to waste your time on him. What's your occupation, RR?

 

Personally, I don't have any plans to move into one of those middle east countries. Neither would he want me to go there - because getting a job for a lady is not very easy in these countries. We did discuss that we would retake the vows and get remarried according to the law of UK, if I wanted to be here long term. I wouldn't mind bringing him here - though we haven't discussed much about this yet.

 

I work in the Software field.

 

Your neediness comes from the fact that you're alone. You should be less available for him. The less time you spenmd with him the more independent you will feel and the more he will need you. Watch TV, read a book, go out with friends instead of talking to him all the time. You will feel better and he will miss you more. You are not really letting him miss you.

 

I'm working on this bit. But I can't make him miss me for now, because he knows I'm on NC. Or may be he already misses me which explains those long emails. But one thing about those emails were - they all sounded like he needs a friend more than like he needs a wife.

[RoseRen]

The two examples in the story are totally different. A mother should always (in 99%) of cases forgive her child, that kind of love is unconditional. Bonds between family shouldn't be broken over something like that IMO.

 

The thing I find so frustrating with you, RoseRen, is that sure, if your H was prepared to move mountains and lay down at your feet begging YOU for forgiveness to prove that he was sorry then maybe you could consider giving him another chance. (A loooong shot IMO, and I wouldn't personally, but..)

 

But he isn't- he is making YOU do all the chasing and hard work, and basically convincing you that YOU have to change for him to come back to you, which is wrong.

He is in the luxurious postion of having two women begging to be with him- he is in a win-win situation as long as both have this mind set.

 

I don't believe my ex is a terrible person. I hated him for a while, now I actually feel sorry for him, because while he still refuses to acknowledge his faults and is continuing to have unsuccessful Rs, I have learned from the experience. Thanks to him, I realised my OWN self worth, and that I deserved to be treated better than he treated me. His crappy behaviour helped me appreciate how wonderful my next BF (now my fiance) is, and our R has been just amazing.

 

RoseRen, you can't love someone else and be loved respectfully in return until you realise you are loveable JUST AS YOU ARE.

 

I agree SB. I'm going to continue my NC until Xmas and see if it makes any difference to me or him.

 

Hey, and he is not the one who is making me do the chasing and hard work. I think he just did the toughest job - divorcing his second wife. And he doesn't have two wives begging him to come to us. It's only me. Infact the last time she and me had a conversation, she was telling me that we should not go back to him and make him suffer for the mistake he had done to both of us.

 

But I understand what you mean and I appreciate that you are being there for me SB.

[RoseRen]

Miss him. Fighting every urge to contact him.

[sb129]

Its OK to miss him, and its OK to want to contact him.

 

The best thing you can do is KEEP BUSY.

 

Find things to do, stay away from your phone, call a friend.

 

Ideas:

 

Cleaning (boring, but effective)

Go to the cinema (even if its by yourself) you can't take your phone or computer in there, and its escapism at its finest.

Go for a big long walk in the park

Buy a great epic novel and read it in the bath (!!)

Buy a DVD of a comedy TV series and watch 5 episodes in a row. (I found the green room particularly good!)

 

You will get there RoseRen, you can do it.

[WIGIRL]

Honey why you calling me so late

It's kinda hard to talk right now

Honey why you crying is everything okay

I gotta whisper cause I can't be too loud

Well, my girl's in the next room

Sometimes I wish she was you

I guess we never really moved on

It's really good to hear your voice saying my name

It sounds so sweet

Coming from the lips of an angel

Hearing those words it makes me weak

And I never wanna say goodbye

But girl you make it hard to be faithful

With the lips of an angel

 

It's funny that you're calling me tonight

And yes I've dreamt of you too

And does he know you're talking to me

Will it start a fight

No I don't think she has a clue

Well my girl's in the next room

Sometimes I wish she was you

I guess we never really moved on

It's really good to hear your voice saying my name

It sounds so sweet

Coming from the lips of an angel

Hearing those words it makes me weak

And I never wanna say goodbye

But girl you make it hard to be faithful

With the lips of an angel

 

It's really good to hear your voice saying my name

It sounds so sweet

Coming from the lips of an angel

Hearing those words it makes me weak

And I never wanna say goodbye

But girl you make it hard to be faithful

With the lips of an angel

(And I never wanna say goodbye)

But girl you make it hard to be faithful

With the lips of an angel

Honey why you calling me so late

 

 

hmmm...Do you write songs for Hinder??

 

j/k

 

The story made me think of it though.

 

I learned something from a past relationship, and I discovered it in a strange way. I was writing a Valentine's day card to my man, and I found myself apologizing in it. APOLOGIZING for my "shortcomings" in a Valentine's day card. I realized at that point that I was selling myself short because of him. Stop and think to yourself. REALLY use this time you're not talking to him. Don't think about him at all. Praise yourself. Think of all the ways that you are special. Make a list as to why you are THE SH*T.

 

Finally, realize that you are all those great things without him. You are not dependant on him to make you who you are.

 

Declarations of love should not include apologies.

[RoseRen]

After all this advices, I feel guilty that I gave in today.

 

Today he had been trying to reach me on my mobile all morning. Finally he asked a common friend of ours to check on me and see if I was OK. She came over and told me the story; she is a very close friend of mine, but she had no clue about our NC or anything. It looks like even he didn't mention abt our NC, instead he mentioned that the last time he spoke to me I seemed upset and he wanted her to make sure I was OK. I thought it was sweet of him to send someone over to make sure I was OK.

 

Then in the afternoon he again called and I attended his call. I can't blame anything else for that - but me. Well, he had called to pour out his heart basically. There were lots of news on his side - nothing I didn't know. He told me about him moving out (officially thrown out) from his apartment, his ED issues, his second wife's calls, etc etc.

 

We spoke for a long time, and all the time I was telling - "It's OK, It'll be alright, etc etc". Midway he started laughing hysterically. He thought it was a bit of an irony that he had hurt me, and I was the one comforting him. I thought now is the time to tell him that I am grateful that for once he gave me the priority (abt the divorce). So I told him that though I'm not happy about the mess he or his new wife is in, I am happy that he finally did it for me.

 

But I also told him I needed time to heal, and I was hurt emotionally with the past and unless I feel confident about myself and feel that the past won't hinder our relationship I wanted time off. He was like he missed me and though he was OK about the NC at first, he doesn't feel so anymore. I missed him too, but I thought the break would do me good. So finally I told him that.

 

He started telling me that I deserve a better guy, he is good for nothing and that he will end up with no woman left by his side blah blah. I proceeded to "advise" him - can you believe that!!! I told him instead of feeling bad about the issues he should be doing something about them. I convinced him to somehow take a leave go back to India and get some treatment for the ED. It's glad to hear that he misses me. But then I know what missing hurts like and I don't want him to sit around and "miss" and hurt.

 

I have a question on his behalf. He has made a mistake and he knows that. So please don't be rude about that now. But since his wife still keeps calling him, what would be the best way to deal with that? (I suggested ignoring.) Any suggestions?

 

And SB & Nora... I still stick to ur advices. This was one fall... but no I won't let this happen again. (it's so difficult to keep away from his news because we have lots of common friends. and then i don't want to tell any real life friends abt such personal details.)

[norajane]

He thought it was a bit of an irony that he had hurt me, and I was the one comforting him

 

This is what he misses. Having someone who comforts him and listens to him. He still thinks it's all about him, despite how YOU might be feeling.

 

As to what he should do about his other ex-wife's calls...why is it your responsibility to figure that out? HE needs to man up and deal with the mess he created. He shouldn't dump his problem in YOUR lap and ask you - who have been hurt in the first place by his marrying her! - what he's supposed to do now.

[RoseRen]

I learned something from a past relationship, and I discovered it in a strange way. I was writing a Valentine's day card to my man, and I found myself apologizing in it. APOLOGIZING for my "shortcomings" in a Valentine's day card. I realized at that point that I was selling myself short because of him. Stop and think to yourself. REALLY use this time you're not talking to him. Don't think about him at all. Praise yourself. Think of all the ways that you are special. Make a list as to why you are THE SH*T.

 

Finally, realize that you are all those great things without him. You are not dependant on him to make you who you are.

 

Declarations of love should not include apologies.

 

I used to do that all the time. Well, actually I have a low self-esteem problem when I am with him. I'm working on them. Not very easy though.

[RoseRen]

As to what he should do about his other ex-wife's calls...why is it your responsibility to figure that out? HE needs to man up and deal with the mess he created. He shouldn't dump his problem in YOUR lap and ask you - who have been hurt in the first place by his marrying her! - what he's supposed to do now.

 

I was just trying to be helpful to him. He doesn't hold me responsible - not even 1% - for him marrying again. And he knows he's made the mistake. But what now?

[norajane]

I was just trying to be helpful to him. He doesn't hold me responsible - not even 1% - for him marrying again. And he knows he's made the mistake. But what now?

 

HE made the mistake, let him fix his problems with his other wife and you stay out of it.

[RoseRen]

HE made the mistake, let him fix his problems with his other wife and you stay out of it.

 

Advice Accepted. It's just that I feel a bit worried at times to see him worried.

 

Thanks Nora :-)

[RoseRen]

I don't know if there is a cycle here. After every 10 days of NC, I have this great urge to contact him. Last time the excuse was he contacted me.

 

But this time, I'm determined that I won't contact him. This feeling that I can be, without having to call him and update him about every other stupid thing happening around me, gives me the hope that I have a bit of individualism left in me.

 

Btw, he mails me twice daily. He also has been constantly sending me articles about stuffs I'm interested in. I keep wondering if that was a vain attempt to distract me from thinking about him. LOL. I read his mails ever three days, and haven't responded to any of them.

 

I think after the past 20 days period my decision is to work on the relationship further and improve it and live together happily ever after. :-)

 

I feel a lot less depressed now. I think my depression was because I didn't have answers to why he did certain things. Now I've a clearer picture of what happened then.

 

Also, I had this feeling that if I don't constantly communicate with him, he is going to dump me and go - which is not true! Blame my imagination.

 

I have changed over the last two weeks a teeny-weeny bit. I think I have become more relaxed about what has happened. I think him divorcing his new wife made a loooot of difference in my healing. It is cruel to say this - but it makes me feel that he thinks that I'm worth it. And in some sort of selfish way it makes me feel happy. Its like, he dumped me for his family and now he has gone against the very same family for me.

 

He has changed a little bit, too. Especially, he is regaining his confidence. He is becoming the jovial self he used to be, amidst all the problems he is got himself into.

 

20 days is not a long time. But this way we atleast know we are on the right track.

[OpenBook]

I think we are all making a big mistake here by treating this woman and her husband according to the western moral code. They are not western. I assumed that because RoseRen grew up in th UK, that she is assimilated in the western society, but she is not. Her mindset is completely eastern. She questions her selfishness and sees all people as pure, which is very cute, but it's not western.

 

Yes, but she is posting on a WESTERN WEBSITE. I think there is a reason why she is presenting her situation to Western women. I don't think we are making a mistake at all by giving her Western advice.

 

The best thing you can do is KEEP BUSY.

 

Find things to do, stay away from your phone, call a friend.

 

Ideas:

 

Cleaning (boring, but effective)

Go to the cinema (even if its by yourself) you can't take your phone or computer in there, and its escapism at its finest.

Go for a big long walk in the park

Buy a great epic novel and read it in the bath (!!)

Buy a DVD of a comedy TV series and watch 5 episodes in a row. (I found the green room particularly good!)

 

Rose, I think you should get the entire 6 seasons of Sex and the City, and watch every darn one of them. Pay special attention to Samantha.

[RoseRen]

Yes, but she is posting on a WESTERN WEBSITE. I think there is a reason why she is presenting her situation to Western women. I don't think we are making a mistake at all by giving her Western advice.

 

Rose, I think you should get the entire 6 seasons of Sex and the City, and watch every darn one of them. Pay special attention to Samantha.

 

I don't mind getting "western advice". I think whether we are asian or english or american, the feelings are still the same isn't it? It's only the attitude that seems to change.

 

I couldn't get my hand on Green Room, so I had started off with Friends.

 

I did start watching Sex and the City. I think its not entirely my kind of serial, but it is very insightful. I like Samantha's attittude in the first season, where she comes across as a very confident lady. I think I'm more like charlotte. (Atleast that's my opinion after watching a few episodes of Season 1.)

 

I think I'm in this phase where everything I watch seems to be insightful. I used to adore Friends for its comedy. But now I think it is an eyeopener and is like an exaggerated version of the human attitudes/emotions - positive (prudence, love) ad negative (jealousy, anger). I never thought of it that way before.

[RoseRen]

... and its a happy one. I have posted it here...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1487119&postcount=106