Love is unconditional. Relationships are conditional. Discuss.....

[Trialbyfire]

Absolutely!

 

But I was just suggesting that in order to disagree you don't have to insinuate that another person is fooling themselves, but that's semantic. I'm sure that CLG can cope

Actually, I never insinuated it. I stated it. It's my belief. Is your belief more valid than mine?

[MattyTee]

*grin* This could go on quite some time. No, both two pennies...

[Trialbyfire]

Oh, okay. So we both have valid points but you didn't like how I wrote my point, you would prefer that I soft-sold it instead. Doesn't this sound like controlling behaviour to you?

 

Food for thought Mattytee and no, I don't dislike anyone in this thread.

[CD111]

Hmm, after reading this thread this is where I stand. I think you can love a partner unconditionally; however, you have to realize it's their life also and they don't need to feel the same way about you also. I also thing there are two kinds of love unconditional and conditional and both can happen in a relationship. I also think a person can just stop loving someone completely or just conditionally. I feel like I love my last ex unconditionally, I don't feel like we must be together or that we even should be, life happens and people change; however, that doesn't mean I will stop caring about him. By no means am I obsessed; however, he will always have a special place in my heart and I will think about him on occasion and hope his life is going well. But that's that. This unconditional love will not stop me from getting in another relationship or affect the relationship.

 

Now in all reality, my future relationships will have an aspect of both loves in my relationship. In the most part I agree with tbf, every most relationships are based upon conditional love, especially in the beginning, I think unconditional love can develop, but the relationship is based upon conditions. I think unconditional love can happen right in the beginning of a romantic relationship but it's tough. Personally I think unconditional love if more likely to happen between friends then lovers.

 

Most people have standards they need to have met before they get in a relationship. Not saying that having standards is wrong we all have them, but what are standards....they are conditions. Conditions upon which we base whether there is a point in beginning the relationship and in many situations deviations in a negative manner from the set standards can ruin a relationship. So I think relationships are extremely conditional.

[MattyTee]

Oh, okay. So we both have valid points but you didn't like how I wrote my point, you would prefer that I soft-sold it instead. Doesn't this sound like controlling behaviour to you?

 

Food for thought Mattytee and no, I don't dislike anyone in this thread.

 

Oh dear.

 

Look, your point is as valid as anyones but I didn't feel the need to trash someone elses beliefs just to make mine. Rattling off some nonsense about controlling behaviour doesn't take away from the fact that I was just pointing out you could relay your belief without saying another person was delusional (and inferring that they also believe they have a superiority).

 

Do you see the difference between saying "I believe this" and "I believe this therefore you are wrong"?

 

I'm not sure where the bit about disliking anyone in this thread came from - but I'm glad that you don't Anyway, the points have been made, I've said my bit. I shall leave you in peace.

 

Enjoy the meal

[marlena]

Unconditional love is loving someone NO MATTER WHAT. It is also not expecting anything from that person/s.

 

In romantic love, we need to give love whilst at the same time we expect to recieve it. Whenever the person we love witholds his love of affection, we get angry, frustrated, disappointed, resentful etc... He/she is not meeting our needs. We give our affection and expect that they do the same. It is the very nature of romantic love to want to give and take.

 

It is also about change. People who love others unconditionally do not want to change others. They accept them for who/what they are. The minute we try to change another, we cease to love them unconditionally.

 

Loving someone unconditionally should not be mistaken for sick, unwholesome love. To continue to love someone who has abused us is not unconditional love. It is dependency or some kind of flaw within our own emotional constitution.

 

Often loving another unconditionally is not good for us. It stops us from setting boundaries.

 

 

As for loving ourselves unconditionally, that too is difficult to achieve nor should it be . Are we not often very, very hard with ourselves? Are we not often our worst critics? How many people spend their lives in self-hatred? How often to we vow to change ourselves? This is a good thing. Imagine someone who loves himself so unconditionally that he sees NO wrong in himself. In his/her own eyes, he/she is perfect. A bit narcissistic, isn't it?

 

Maybe unconditional love is not such a good thing after all. We all need to set boundaries between what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't it. Through these boundaries, we maintain our self respect and a healthy self- image.

 

Human beings are at core selfish. Therefore, unconditional love can not exist. It is a fallacy. The closest we get is the love we feel for our children but even that love is sometimes limited by expectations.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh dear.

 

Look, your point is as valid as anyones but I didn't feel the need to trash someone elses beliefs just to make mine. Rattling off some nonsense about controlling behaviour doesn't take away from the fact that I was just pointing out you could relay your belief without saying another person was delusional (and inferring that they also believe they have a superiority).

 

Do you see the difference between saying "I believe this" and "I believe this therefore you are wrong"?

 

I'm not sure where the bit about disliking anyone in this thread came from - but I'm glad that you don't Anyway, the points have been made, I've said my bit. I shall leave you in peace.

 

Enjoy the meal

Debating is not trashing until someone lets loose the first right hook. Go back and reread the thread. If you don't clearly see it, you're blinded by the fact that you disagree with my position on this and chose to be offended by it.

 

Eat hearty but stay off the booze.

[cant let go]

hey sorry for starting the fire over here. also, i'm not trying to throw any fuel to the flames today. this forum should encourage disagreeing and debating but i'm sorry for reacting so harshly.

 

i just want to say to t.b.f. that i was personally offended by the comments directed at my love. t.b.f., you do not know me or how i feel. we differ in opinions about unconditional love, i respect that. please don't tell me that what i feel is wrong. i'm sorry for causing any trouble here.

 

Matty, as always, i respect you and your gentle soul. Thank you for trying to keep the peace here.

[carrotgirl]

haha

 

ok. well, thanks for all your thoughtful insight, tbf. you really seem to have it all figured out. i guess anyone who is ever sad to see a person that they care about leave their life never truly loved them unconditionally. i guess the fact that i was sad when my dad died means that i never loved him unconditionally either. you are brilliant. thanks for putting everything into perspective for me. so does unconditional love also come laden with your thick layer of pessimism and cynicism? i'm done here, i need to get ready to go out tonight.

can't let go, IMO, the place where things got pointed and nasty was here.

 

This is a kind of emotion laden, defensive response to Tri's prior post. This amount of personalizing seemed to say Tri touched a different, possibly unrelated nerve about sadness and mourning. I've been noticing some of this in your other posts too.

 

Not to pick, but Tri didn't say you shouldn't be sad, only that the sadness expressed makes an impression on others. I think it's a fair statement. No?

 

Particularly regarding your dad, I haven't noticed in your posts if you've said someone is giving you a hard time IRL about sadness and mourning? I'm really sorry if this is the case. It was approximately six months after my father passing when another relative told me to "Get over it."

 

Anyway, I don't think that was being said here.

 

{{{hug}}}

 

Carrot

[Mz. Pixie]

Unconditional love is reserved for parents and their children, period. To say you love someone unconditionally is a tall order.

 

Think about it. If my child does something terrible I'm still going to love them no matter what. I wouldn't turn my back on them.

 

Spouses/partners, whatever are different. Everyone has something that's

a deal breaker for them- whether it's domestic abuse, alcoholism, drug addiction, infidelity.

 

I love my husband more than I have ever loved another person- excluding my children- but I can tell you if he began beating me, drinking, doing drugs or cheating those would be deal breakers for me and I'd leave the marriage.

[cant let go]

Carrot, Thank you, I do appreciate your comments.

 

Let me attempt to clear things up for everyone. I'm sorry for any misunderstandings of my intentions.

 

I apologized previously for my comments and I accepted my part of the blame for things getting taken out of hand. I tried to address that the reason I reacted so defensively was because I felt like I was being told blatantly that I was simply wrong. I was offended by the disrespect for my post and I reacted inappropriately and for that, again, I am sorry.

 

I don't think I implied that t.b.f. was saying that I shouldn't feel sad. I felt that t.b.f. implied that because I was sad my love was conditional and I was wrong to say that I loved unconditionally. I used my dad as an example because many here believe that unconditional love is reserved for family. I just don't agree that sadness relates to a condition on love. sadness does not mean, to me, that one has stopped loving. perhaps it is the definition of sadness that we should start a thread about.

 

Perhaps there is a lot sadness expressed in some of my threads here. But is that not why we come here? To break down and vent? The nerve that was struck here was not about my sadness. I felt like I was being told, "Hey, everything you have said is wrong. end of sentence." To me that was just disrespect.

 

My every day life is not a mess of misery. I miss my ex, yes. I shed a tear a little here and there when every place that I go, I have a memory of him and I being there together. Why do I cry? I cry because I miss sharing in simple moments with the person that I enjoy being around most. I miss the future that I used to imagine and I am adjusting to the new empty canvas that I now hold. When I do see or talk to him, I do not act or tell him that I am sad. I don't care for him less now that he is not spending his days with me. I do not expect anything from him in return. I go weeks without talking to him and when I do, what do I say? I say, I'm glad that you are well and I hope that you have fun. And what's more, I mean it.

 

But it doesn't matter what I say here in an anonymous forum or even to my close friends. It doesn't matter if I cry a little when I am alone. What matters is what I do. And everything that I do is out of love. There is no condition holding me back from feeling and giving that love. It's not like, oh if he only loved me back then I could love him. No. I love him. If he loved me the same then I would get to spend time with him and we would share things together and yeah sure I would enjoy that time. But that is his condition on me, not my condition on him. But since he doesn't want that future, I will accept that I will love another that way someday. Will that mean that I won't love him anymore? Not necessarily.

 

Thank you to everyone here at LS for reading my posts. For me, this is a place that I can say anything on my mind and be free from any judgement. I don't feel any pressure to impress anyone here and I certainly don't have a need for any validation of my opinions. I do have a ton of respect for everyone here and I appreciate the way in which we share our ups and our downs.

 

 

clg