OW anger vs MM anger

[Virgo1982]

Fisherman, I am so glad to see YOU again....wow, I thought they ran you off. I am a BS or I suspect my H had an affair. I accused him of it almost a year ago this weekend. Since that day, he has never been the same. My question is.....if he truly had an A, you would think he would atleast treat me better, even if he admits it or not? Sine the accusation, he has changed and now treats me worse. He was very angry for months after the accusation and even wanted out up until May of this year.

 

I try to talk to him about US all the time, he hates it and gets defensive, says there is nothing wrong, but I know....he is not the man I feel in love with 13 years ago. He is distant, we cannot communicate, he is less attracted to me sexually etc....what is wrong? He acts like he cannot stand me sometimes and all I do is try to love him, on him and be sweet. He talks to me like I am stupid, would rather hang out with his BF then come home most nights....so, again, is he really angry because he was innocent or is he still in a fog over her and no longer in love with me?

 

He loved me to death for the first 11 years, then after her....he changed and is not the same at all, he will not even kiss me most of the time....it is like he is giving up, but says he loves me and wants it.....what is wrong here? Is it me and should I leave?

 

I've read your story and feel for you, but I would not have any respect or trust for him at this point. Any romantic feelings for relatives is a no-no and I've expressed my feelings about this before.

[Impudent Oyster]

I stayed with my wife because I love her. I was glad she forgave me. I also didn't have to tell her about what had happened. I chose to regain full honesty so we could have a good marriage again. I would never stay for the reasons you cited.

 

Thank you, I know you wouldn't stay for the reasons I cited, I can't believe anyone would.

[Fisherman]

Sounds almost like you would like to think you were powerless and unable to do anything about it. Doesn't sound a lot like someone accepting their responsibility in acting the way they did. Sounds like more blame-shifting to me.

 

You cheated. No one 'forced you' to do that.

Believe what you will of me. It makes no difference. I know what I did. I know why I did what I did. As many people know there are a lot of reasons for actions. I take responsibility for mine. As you said, no one forced me.

 

Frannie, has anyone ever manipulated you? After it's over and you see what's been done, do you feel more angry at yourself for allowing it or the other person for doing it? My anger is directed at myself. That doesn't excuse the other person for her actions though.

[Tomcat33]

Why did you cheat then? Because OW pressured you? Wow, I hope my H doesn't love me like that...

 

 

I know this is the thing, and the women that fight so hard to keep these kinds of spineless men that are seduced and convinced to stray, should prob open their eyes and look at what they are fighting for. YUCK a guy who is that easily convinced to do something he doesn't want to do...what kind of a relationship could you have with a man like that, as a woman how could you ever feel protected with someone that spineless?

[Tomcat33]

Frannie, has anyone ever manipulated you? After it's over and you see what's been done, do you feel more angry at yourself for allowing it or the other person for doing it? My anger is directed at myself. That doesn't excuse the other person for her actions though.

 

 

I get manipulated ALL the time, every time I set foot in a shopping centre those danm window displays just mess with my head, $1000 later and a pair of boots an perfume and lingerie and I am in the hole again. I know the feeling!

[Impudent Oyster]

Fisherman, I am so glad to see YOU again....wow, I thought they ran you off. I am a BS or I suspect my H had an affair. I accused him of it almost a year ago this weekend. Since that day, he has never been the same. My question is.....if he truly had an A, you would think he would atleast treat me better, even if he admits it or not? Sine the accusation, he has changed and now treats me worse. He was very angry for months after the accusation and even wanted out up until May of this year.

 

I try to talk to him about US all the time, he hates it and gets defensive, says there is nothing wrong, but I know....he is not the man I feel in love with 13 years ago. He is distant, we cannot communicate, he is less attracted to me sexually etc....what is wrong? He acts like he cannot stand me sometimes and all I do is try to love him, on him and be sweet. He talks to me like I am stupid, would rather hang out with his BF then come home most nights....so, again, is he really angry because he was innocent or is he still in a fog over her and no longer in love with me?

 

He loved me to death for the first 11 years, then after her....he changed and is not the same at all, he will not even kiss me most of the time....it is like he is giving up, but says he loves me and wants it.....what is wrong here? Is it me and should I leave?

 

I could be wrong but he sounds to me like a man who is cheating, and who is treating you badly purposely to cause a rift in the marriage. Often when men cheat, and their marriages are fine, they have to create problems where none exist so they can justify their betrayal.

 

That sounds exactly like what he's doing. My recommendation to you is to ignore him. Tell him to leave until he can treat you the way you should be treated as his wife. If he won't leave then you leave, but don't allow him to dump on you like that.

 

If he leaves and goes to an OW, good riddance. I know it won't be easy but you don't want a man who isn't willing to fight for you, do you? You don't want a man who has feelings for someone else? Of course not.

 

It's up to him to regain your trust and affection, not the other way around. It doesn't sound like he's interested in working on the marriage, so until he is, tell him to get lost. Don't make the mistake of lavishing him with love when he's indifferent towards you, tell him he goes to you for counseling or you show him the door.

 

Oh and, I'd do what ever you have to do to get proof that he's cheating...or not.

[Virgo1982]

I know this is the thing, and the women that fight so hard to keep these kinds of spineless men that are seduced and convinced to stray, should prob open their eyes and look at what they are fighting for. YUCK a guy who is that easily convinced to do something he doesn't want to do...what kind of a relationship could you have with a man like that, as a woman how could you ever feel protected with someone that spineless?

 

I would rather be with a man who cheated because there were problems. I would hate for my H to come home and say he was seduced. I haven't heard this one for a loooooooooooooooong time.

[reboot]

I would rather be with a man who cheated because there were problems. I would hate for my H to come home and say he was seduced. I haven't heard this one for a loooooooooooooooong time.

Ah well, you women don't understand. Most men only have enough blood in their bloodstream to operate one head at a time, so we CAN be seduced if we aren't careful.

[frannie]

Believe what you will of me. It makes no difference. I know what I did. I know why I did what I did. As many people know there are a lot of reasons for actions. I take responsibility for mine. As you said, no one forced me.

 

Frannie, has anyone ever manipulated you? After it's over and you see what's been done, do you feel more angry at yourself for allowing it or the other person for doing it? My anger is directed at myself. That doesn't excuse the other person for her actions though.

 

I don't know that I'd say anyone ever 'manipulated' me, no. I suppose I just don't look at life that way. I like to believe in free choice and personal accountability. Perhaps because it puts the power over decisions for my life where it should be: with me.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much people have lied to me, misrepresented themselves, or whatever they've done, my decisions over my actions have been MINE. So, yes, people have lied to me, have been less than honest. But what I did I did in good faith, and using the information I had to the best of my abilities.

 

I'm not sure how being 'manipulated' into cheating on a partner, by someone claiming what..? (what are you saying she claimed..?) works exactly. If you cheated, you cheated. You can hardly say you weren't aware of what was going on.

 

You knew you had a W at home, and you could have a pretty good guess at how cheating on her would affect you and her... So how did the OW's 'manipulations' work exactly..?

[Tomcat33]

I would rather be with a man who cheated because there were problems. I would hate for my H to come home and say he was seduced. I haven't heard this one for a loooooooooooooooong time.

 

 

100% agreed! when my fiancee cheated on me it was obvious what our problems were and he took full ownership of his actions, he was that type of guy though he told it like it was even when he know he would get balsted. He was not spineless at all... he made mistakes yes but not spineless. There is nothing I find more unappealing but hey some women like that, they like to wear the boxers in the relationship, literally....

[Virgo1982]

Ah well, you women don't understand. Most men only have enough blood in their bloodstream to operate one head at a time, so we CAN be seduced if we aren't careful.

 

(I cough) Bullsh-t...

[Tomcat33]

Ah well, you women don't understand. Most men only have enough blood in their bloodstream to operate one head at a time, so we CAN be seduced if we aren't careful.

 

 

Granted I understand that to a certain extent, but can someone be seduced on-going to engage in a full on affair and claim manipulation? With what face do you look at your partner and claim that? Gees what a cop-out

C'mon, "she withheld friendship from me and that manipulated me" Well what the hell were you doing looking for "friendship" outside of your marriage? From ANOTHER WOMAN? Maybe these men also get abducted by alliens and told to follow orders in their sleep.

 

Blechhhh sorry but a person screws up yes, but face up to your srew up don't hide under a woman's skirt, how unattractive.

 

I respect people that say "you know what I was vulnerable I was not thinking straight and I did something I should not have" not this "I was manipulated" crap

[frannie]

Granted I understand that to a certain extent, but can someone be seduced on-going to engage in a full on affair and claim manipulation? With what face do you look at your partner and claim that? Gees what a cop-out

C'mon, "she withheld friendship from me and that manipulated me"

 

Yes, hard to believe that would be accepted by anyone as an explanation/excuse for cheating.

[reboot]

Granted I understand that to a certain extent, but can someone be seduced on-going to engage in a full on affair and claim manipulation? With what face do you look at your partner and claim that? Gees what a cop-out

C'mon, "she withheld friendship from me and that manipulated me" Well what the hell were you doing looking for "friendship" outside of your marriage? From ANOTHER WOMAN? Maybe these men also get abducted by alliens and told to follow orders in their sleep.

 

Blechhhh sorry but a person screws up yes, but face up to your srew up don't hide under a woman's skirt, how unattractive.

 

I respect people that say "you know what I was vulnerable I was not thinking straight and I did something I should not have" not this "I was manipulated" crap

Oh I agree. I said that tongue-in-cheek really. I've been 'seduced' a few times in my life, but was I actually 'manipulated'? pffftt.... I was 'full growed' and knew what was about to happen.

[Virgo1982]

Ah well, you women don't understand. Most men only have enough blood in their bloodstream to operate one head at a time, so we CAN be seduced if we aren't careful.

 

Oh, and for the record, THE FRIENDSHIP KEPT HIM GOING TO OW. There are too many things wrong with that statement...

[frannie]

Oh I agree. I said that tongue-in-cheek really. I've been 'seduced' a few times in my life, but was I actually 'manipulated'? pffftt.... I was 'full growed' and knew what was about to happen.

 

Thank goodness for that... I thought I was going mad for a second there...

[Tomcat33]

Oh I agree. I said that tongue-in-cheek really. I've been 'seduced' a few times in my life, but was I actually 'manipulated'? pffftt.... I was 'full growed' and knew what was about to happen.

 

 

I know you were you don't strike me as the type that would be slave to his loins and claim temporary insanity when he commits a crime.

 

 

Yes, hard to believe that would be accepted by anyone as an explanation/excuse for cheating.

 

Yes but even harder to beleive is people that accept that as a reasonable claim to why it happened!?!?

 

I think there are two kinds of recoveries from affairs, there are the ones that come head on to realizations and open up all the channels no matter how ugly it is going to get, they risk hitting true rock bottom in the hopes for full recovery. These types I believe have a good chance at succeeding. Then there are the ones that wash things down to spare feelings and the secrets are still carried deep within. I find little hope for the latter since they continue to live in the fantasy of their own lies. This can prove to be a very powerful thing, people cling on to lies so tightly they end up convincing themselves of things that are simply not true.

Which category each person falls under is really for each individual to know and analyse.

[Tomcat33]

Oh, and for the record, THE FRIENDSHIP KEPT HIM GOING TO OW. .

 

 

Yes and I thought all men cheated just for sex? Now I am totally confused!?!?

[Virgo1982]

I find little hope for the latter since they continue to live in the fantasy of their own lies. This can prove to be a very powerful thing, people cling on to lies so tightly they end up convincing themselves of things that are simply not true.

Which category each person falls under is really for each individual to know and analyse.

 

Profound and true.

 

He loved her before he cheated. He stopped because he loved her. I'm still left with the question of why he left. I guess his W would just have to leave him if he were seduced again, but she probably won't. She'll encourage him into starting another thread.

[cj1988]

Hello Tomcat, thank you for the response. I do appreciate all the input I can get....I know he is NOT having an A now, but still think he had atleast an EA for months. If you read my threads, it gets more confusing, it was his 1/2 sister that he just met......so as you see, it could have been innocent, but my gut tells me it was not......that does not even matter now, it is how he treats me at this point. You are right I am fighting for this marriage is just sitting around soaking it all up and looking like he hates every minute of it MOST of the time, not all the time. Long story short, he did fight for me in his brain for 11 years, so now I owe him....without saying that....he acts like he has me wrapped now, like he thinks I thought about him for years.

 

My point is, if WE both want this then he has to jump in.....not just sit around content because he does not have a reason to really leave his confort zone. I do everything for him , always have, he works and plays....so as you see it is not just the A, it is him thinking he has been there for me and now it is my turn, all BS......I am going to stay at our lake house next week, he does not know that yet to tell him I need to think......knowing him as stubborn as he is, he will not care ! More time to party with the fellows ! I just wish I had the courage to leave for good....I am trying, but I do love him ! That f---- sucks and I hate me for being this weak !

 

Thanks again ! I will be ok one day.....soon I hope !

[Virgo1982]

Yes and I thought all men cheated just for sex? Now I am totally confused!?!?

 

I love you, TomCat.

[Tomcat33]

Hello Tomcat, thank you for the response. I do appreciate all the input I can get....I know he is NOT having an A now, but still think he had atleast an EA for months. If you read my threads, it gets more confusing, it was his 1/2 sister that he just met......so as you see, it could have been innocent, but my gut tells me it was not......that does not even matter now, it is how he treats me at this point. You are right I am fighting for this marriage is just sitting around soaking it all up and looking like he hates every minute of it MOST of the time, not all the time. Long story short, he did fight for me in his brain for 11 years, so now I owe him....without saying that....he acts like he has me wrapped now, like he thinks I thought about him for years.

 

 

This what you just wrote about having to fight as payback for all the years HE faught for you, is EXACTLY what my ex told me about his situation. He kept insisting it was now HIS time to be selfish. I had a real problem with that, relationships are 50/50 that's nonsense that one person does it all and the other sits there and takes the benefits, chances are if one party is feeling like they are doing too much the other feels the same way too. It's rare that a person can give and give and give unconditionally, like some of these men would have us believe expecting nothing in return and one day they wake up and want "vengeance" for all their hard work and devotion C'MON.

 

So I have a real problem with this idea that he feels you OWE him for all his years of devotion, and on top of the fact that he cheated on you YOU have to suck up to him? This is exactly what is going on with my ex now and why they are divorcing I suppose he feels she cant recpoup what she did not give to him for many years prior now that she knows the crap has hit the fan. He says it is too late now, but I question how much of his devotion was truly spent on her throughout the years chasing after her. I really don't think it was SO like that. I just don't think a marriage can sustain intself being one sided for many years.

 

It's funny what a partner will do or say to convice you of your shortcommings and the mistakes you make in contributing to a break-down, rels. fall apart all the time I just don't think it is one sided. It always takes two. the affair in a lot cases is a symptom of the big problem but not the core problem.

 

 

Cj1988 how do you feel? Do you feel you can keep fighting for this in such a one sided manner much longer? Ask yourself what are you truly getting out of fighting for this so hard? Isn't it time you recovered some of your power back? OR do you feel at blame for your husband's mistakes, you are NOT to be blamed for his choices even though your thoughts might be clouded now you both had your share of responsibility to the relationship it was not ALL your responsibility.

 

don't hate yourself for being weak, you are doing what you need to cope with your situation and strenght starts from weakness. Today you may feel less than perfect but you have to do things your way and discover what is best for you in your own way. The important thing is that you recognize the problems and you are not blinded by your own hope to such extent that you are willing to overlook the deep problems within your current situation. That is a huge step in the right direction seeing things for what they are, after acceptance comes change. I think you are better off than you give yourself credit for. Your willingness to put your foot down and make a significant change will happen when you hit your boilling point and then watch out! You are not living in denial and that is a huge accomplishment. So as harsh of a reality yours is, remember to pat yourself for having enough strength to see things for what they are even in a time where you are consumed by emotions that cloud your judgement.

[Tomcat33]

I love you, TomCat.

 

"Ciao Bella!" (tomcat blows kiss to Virgo)

[cj1988]

Tomcat, you ask me how I feel.....lets see, ashamed of him in a way IF he did do something with his BLOOD. Next, scared, betrayed, angry, sad, very confused and very tired. I do not sleep well and I feel like I am waiting for someone that I once knew ( a sweet man) that may no longer exist. I just cannot get past WHY he would want to stay with someone that he seems to not like at all. I know he loves me, but find that statement very diturbing at the same time. I know I love alot of people and with that care for them and their feelings and well being. He treats his BF and his family better than his own. He ignores me and his own son ( he just told us he was GAY this summer, he is 15) who needs him badly right now....they fight a lot because my H is a know it all and tries to manipulate him like he does me...I am close to him, he loves me !

 

So, you see he not only runs from me he runs from all problems....he is an avid pot smoker and drinks beer everyday to kill his pains, what should I expect from someone like that ! My BF who loves my H as well tells me I am her hero and she would have left him a long time ago....she said he is not going to change right now, because I let him do it to me....she is right. But, he expects me to be a b----, that is why I do not....it will just be another excuse for him to say it is all me.....I know in my heart I deserve better, I just keep hoping he will wake up and be the OLD him again......he has changed so much and I do not know to this day if it is ME or HER that changed him.....I use to be the most beautiful thing in the world to him, now, he looks at women that weigh more than me and look like her (big butt, arms etc) That really confuses me as well....I am 41 and put her to shame, what is wrong with him. I can still wear a bikini in the summer and look as good or better than some of my sons college GF....what is wrong with this man.....I want to make love all the time, like HE USE to want and he just does not care.....he wants me when he is drinking or I b---- about it enough....then tells WHY would I want to when you are gripping at me all the time (just like he did at me for years) so you see it ia all a mind f--- for him and or a game....how can anyone be that messed and that cruel to someone they claim to be IN LOVE with for 13 years....

[Virgo1982]

Tomcat, you ask me how I feel.....lets see, ashamed of him in a way IF he did do something with his BLOOD. Next, scared, betrayed, angry, sad, very confused and very tired. I do not sleep well and I feel like I am waiting for someone that I once knew ( a sweet man) that may no longer exist. I just cannot get past WHY he would want to stay with someone that he seems to not like at all. I know he loves me, but find that statement very diturbing at the same time. I know I love alot of people and with that care for them and their feelings and well being. He treats his BF and his family better than his own. He ignores me and his own son ( he just told us he was GAY this summer, he is 15) who needs him badly right now....they fight a lot because my H is a know it all and tries to manipulate him like he does me...I am close to him, he loves me !

 

So, you see he not only runs from me he runs from all problems....he is an avid pot smoker and drinks beer everyday to kill his pains, what should I expect from someone like that ! My BF who loves my H as well tells me I am her hero and she would have left him a long time ago....she said he is not going to change right now, because I let him do it to me....she is right. But, he expects me to be a b----, that is why I do not....it will just be another excuse for him to say it is all me.....I know in my heart I deserve better, I just keep hoping he will wake up and be the OLD him again......he has changed so much and I do not know to this day if it is ME or HER that changed him.....I use to be the most beautiful thing in the world to him, now, he looks at women that weigh more than me and look like her (big butt, arms etc) That really confuses me as well....I am 41 and put her to shame, what is wrong with him. I can still wear a bikini in the summer and look as good or better than some of my sons college GF....what is wrong with this man.....I want to make love all the time, like HE USE to want and he just does not care.....he wants me when he is drinking or I b---- about it enough....then tells WHY would I want to when you are gripping at me all the time (just like he did at me for years) so you see it ia all a mind f--- for him and or a game....how can anyone be that messed and that cruel to someone they claim to be IN LOVE with for 13 years....

 

It sounds like when he wanted you, you ignored him. He had an EA/PA with his sister and now is he is with you, but is not completely over her. He couldn't be with her anyway. It's like he "might as well" be with you. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I think you deserve the truth. You can stay to see if he gets over her, but it will be painful. However, the truth will set you free from worrying while you're waiting for him to get over her.