OW anger vs MM anger

[Lyssa]

CJ1988 - That is just messed up! I'm sorry you're going through this. TC is right, don't hate yourself for being weak. I don't know what to say about your husband. He's so messed up.

 

You will be okay, CJ1988.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat, you ask me how I feel.....lets see, ashamed of him in a way IF he did do something with his BLOOD. Next, scared, betrayed, angry, sad, very confused and very tired. I do not sleep well and I feel like I am waiting for someone that I once knew ( a sweet man) that may no longer exist. I just cannot get past WHY he would want to stay with someone that he seems to not like at all. I know he loves me, but find that statement very diturbing at the same time. I know I love alot of people and with that care for them and their feelings and well being. He treats his BF and his family better than his own. He ignores me and his own son ( he just told us he was GAY this summer, he is 15) who needs him badly right now....they fight a lot because my H is a know it all and tries to manipulate him like he does me...I am close to him, he loves me !

 

So, you see he not only runs from me he runs from all problems....he is an avid pot smoker and drinks beer everyday to kill his pains, what should I expect from someone like that ! My BF who loves my H as well tells me I am her hero and she would have left him a long time ago....she said he is not going to change right now, because I let him do it to me....she is right. But, he expects me to be a b----, that is why I do not....it will just be another excuse for him to say it is all me.....I know in my heart I deserve better, I just keep hoping he will wake up and be the OLD him again......he has changed so much and I do not know to this day if it is ME or HER that changed him.....I use to be the most beautiful thing in the world to him, now, he looks at women that weigh more than me and look like her (big butt, arms etc) That really confuses me as well....I am 41 and put her to shame, what is wrong with him. I can still wear a bikini in the summer and look as good or better than some of my sons college GF....what is wrong with this man.....I want to make love all the time, like HE USE to want and he just does not care.....he wants me when he is drinking or I b---- about it enough....then tells WHY would I want to when you are gripping at me all the time (just like he did at me for years) so you see it ia all a mind f--- for him and or a game....how can anyone be that messed and that cruel to someone they claim to be IN LOVE with for 13 years....

 

 

I'm so sorry you feel this way, but it is to be expected I can only imagine you feeling of impotence in all of this...but you have more power than you think if you only could see it.

 

 

He's an avid pot smoker and drinker every day? No wonder he has no interest in sex. It's not YOU it's his substance abuse.

 

I'm sorry Cj but you are waiting for a miracle, this man has too many problems you cannot fix no matter how great of a wife you are to him and how great you look in a bikini. This man needs to clean up his act and only then can you think about having any real change at recovery. As it stands it seems you provide a safe shelter for him to partake in all his escapisms. Infidelity and substance abuse. I think you need to have long hard look at what is real in your expectations and what is not. Unless you are willing to lose this man to win him back, you are never going to win with him like this. In life sometimes you have to lose to win and that can be interpretend on so many levels.

 

He needs to make changes that come from within that you cannot make for him but you can decided not be part of his life if he is not willing to be of sound mind and character with you. It sounds like he has quit your marriage, why are you fighting to keep something together you cannot fix all on your onw? If it is not on his own merit then I think he needs to know that he can't count on your support anymore, but you have the to be ready to relinquish your duties to him as a wife as a partner as a friend as a human being. You are enabling him and there will never be a change in him as long as you fascilitate his lifestyle. You walk around afraid of him and all it does is solidify his reasons to justify his actions.

 

 

why would you want this around your children?

[Tomcat33]

It sounds like when he wanted you, you ignored him. He had an EA/PA with his sister and now is he is with you, but is not completely over her. He couldn't be with her anyway. It's like he "might as well" be with you. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I think you deserve the truth. You can stay to see if he gets over her, but it will be painful. However, the truth will set you free from worrying while you're waiting for him to get over her.

 

 

He had an affair with his sister??? WOAH that's messed up!!

[bish]

I was lucky. My wife didn't leave me. It's been about five years now and things are good between us. My family never found out because my wife never told anyone. But I will never again view a woman who "needs a friend to talk to" in the same light. I will forever be suspicious of women who are friendly knowing I am married.

 

I am curious. What if your wife decided she wasn't going to leave you, but felt the need to go out and even the score a little.

 

What would you say to her if she came clean and told you she slept with another man? Think about that honestly...what would you do?

[cj1988]

Thank you both for the comments. I do believe you are correct....that is f--- up to think I am in love with a man that could of done that with his sister and second to still be hooked on something that will never be....if I leave him I am sure it will wake him up.....but by then I am done ! I know I should have been done by now......So, how do I break loose? Any help on that??? How do you leave someoen you love even if you know it is for your own good.....

 

If it makes anyone feel any better or maybe laugh.....they hardly talk at all now and she ignored his calls for months until he stopped.....what goes around comes around.

 

If he really loved me, he would try...bottom line !

[whichwayisup]

CJ, is it possible that he is disguisted with himself and that is why he isn't going to tell you exactly what happened between them? I think you (and from what you've posted already) and the rest of us know they had sex, or atleast did everything but the big deed, so with that being said, is he willing to do counselling on his own? He participated in an inappropriate incestious affair with his 1/2 sister - I'm sure that has to mess one up in the head eventually. The 1/2 ignores him now, so I bet she is feeling the same way.

 

Until he can get past what he's done, there is no way he is going to try to fix things with you.

 

Can I ask? If he got counselling and tried hard to win back your trust and faith again, would give him that second chance? Or, would it be best to let go as what he's done is too much to take, let alone having to deal with the pain daily...

 

Have you sought out counselling for yourself?

[Virgo1982]

Thank you both for the comments. I do believe you are correct....that is f--- up to think I am in love with a man that could of done that with his sister and second to still be hooked on something that will never be....if I leave him I am sure it will wake him up.....but by then I am done ! I know I should have been done by now......So, how do I break loose? Any help on that??? How do you leave someoen you love even if you know it is for your own good.....

 

If it makes anyone feel any better or maybe laugh.....they hardly talk at all now and she ignored his calls for months until he stopped.....what goes around comes around.

 

If he really loved me, he would try...bottom line !

 

I would be repulsed by him. Why did you treat him like crap in the beginning? Let's go back there...

[Tomcat33]

Thank you both for the comments. I do believe you are correct....that is f--- up to think I am in love with a man that could of done that with his sister and second to still be hooked on something that will never be....if I leave him I am sure it will wake him up.....but by then I am done ! I know I should have been done by now......So, how do I break loose? Any help on that??? How do you leave someoen you love even if you know it is for your own good.....

 

If it makes anyone feel any better or maybe laugh.....they hardly talk at all now and she ignored his calls for months until he stopped.....what goes around comes around.

 

If he really loved me, he would try...bottom line !

 

 

Cj1988 we all leave someone we love at one point or another of our lives, we are all faced with that hard decision one way or another. even those people who are in abusive relationships who can't wait to get away from under the grips of the perpetrator feel a sense of deep pain and sorrow for the loss. Leaving someone we love is NEVER easy, no matter how dispicable they are it's not easy. However there is only one way to do it and this is just to brace yourself and understand that you need to feel what you need to feel, and accept the hard times for the outcome of better times.

 

We avoid pain at all costs and stay in painful situations to avoid pain for fear that whatever is out there will be worse than what we already experience and being alone can be the worst possible fear we have as humans, but think about it, yes it can feel bad to feel lonely but there is a great sense of freedom to feel untrapped and with freedom there is hope, for something new for something exciting and better and once you experince loneliness alone and loneliness with someone there is NO GREATER feeling of loneliness than when you are trapped under the same roof with someone that reminds you they gave up on you, nothing is worse than that.

 

You have to have faith that no matter how hard you have it today, things happen for a reason, and the pain you feel today is a stepping stone towards a better life .No matter what happens to you CJ I promise you once you ride out of the darkness you will be 10 times better for it. It seems like an impossible climb up a very high mountain, but don't forget that many people who climb mountains experience ecstasy when they reach the top, that feeling of accomplishment and strength is incomperable. You have that to look forward to and that is a huge prize in and of it self.

 

How you do it is build a strong support system around you and let those that love you help you get through the hard times and baby step by baby step you start to walk on your path in gaining power, at first it will feel unnatural and even devestating but eventually like any change it becomes easier and easier to adapt until it becomes the norm.

As long as you are clear that you have to do something hard and it won't be easy then that's have the battle, right there. Awareness is key.

[cj1988]

Hello Whichway, to answer your question, he will NOT go to therapy, says I need it not him...ok ! He still says nothing happened and does not feel bad about anything at all....ok ! But, something is eating at him that is a fact....I have been in therapy for months now and try to tell him things I learn about marriage to help us, he does not care to hear it, remember he is not the problem, I am and my insecurites..right! That is why he stays high all the time.....

 

Virgo, to now answer yours....I lived a pretty rough life and intimacy was not something I was good at and did not realize it....I had so many demons inside me, that I took a lot out on him. I would say ugly things when we faught that broke his heart and hurt him badly many times with my tongue ! So, he stuck with me through it, we finally married after 11 years together and then she came along and it all changed....they started talking all day long, he stopped calling me....she came around all the time and they were like magnets....I was invisible when she was around. They said they were just getting to know each other....OK, then they would go swimming late at night when we all were asleep and 1 and 1/2 months after we were married I caught them under the dock supposedly talking.....said something, she said he was drunk and crying about me and was shaking when she got out of the water...ok! Then I caught him in a lie a month or so after that said he was at the lake house, was not there I was waiting and accused him of sleeping with her then.....he called her as soon as we had the fight and told her what I said....I called her 3 minutes later and acted like he was seeing someone else.....she played it off like she had no idea where he was and she knew....he jiust called and told her what I said...first lie.....then after months of weird things, found STAMAX in his truck, they were still talking all the time....I taped them....you can see the conversation on my thread "The taped comversation that haunts me"

 

I came back and asked him HOW he could do that to me and he looked me straight in the eye and said "because you hate me" we cried all that weekend, he said he was sorry once at that time and said he would not talk like that anymore..I asked how it got started and how long...he said it had not been long, but never answered HOW it they started that type of talk. Two days later he talks to her and he was not sorry and said you are not going to make what you heard perverted. I love her very much she is my sister and we have bond/connection I cannot explain, but I have never been intimate with her and you are crazy....2 weeks after thathe wanted out, could not take my accuations and could not believe how ar I went ( I called her and asked how long had she been f---- her brother) told his mom etc....

 

So, he ignored me, watched me fall apart physically, mentally and emtionaly for 5 months, did not care....told me he loved me very much but was not IN LOVE with me in the way I wanted him to be...did not want anything to do with me.....kept calling her everyday un until August of this year.....now they talk 3 times a month if that !

 

So, who is the crazy one ! I believe from the tape he feel in love with her and fell out of love with me and now cannot seem to love me again even if he wants to......so, like an idiot I believe in my pea brain that it was just maybe abn EA and that he is IN LOVE with me and maybe I was part of the problem....what if it was innocent.....doubt it ! I will never know..... he would die before admit that kind of horrible act ! Would you ?

[whichwayisup]

Okay, your life with him is so unhealthy and right now neither of you are good together. Alot of heartache and drama, denial on his behalf and obviously he KNOWS he did wrong, otherwise he'd own up to what he did, go to counseling and work on things.

 

Have you thought about a trial separation? Let's not talk divorce yet - Just time apart so you can figure things out. Going down the path you're on now is not helping and it's ruining you and your life.

[Lyssa]

Why are you still with him again? I'm with WWIU on this - too much drama and it is so not healthy!

[cj1988]

You read my mind.....we have a lake house and I am debating on telling him that I am going to stay for awhile to think....knowing him.....he will NOT take that as a red flag and take it as.....extra party time ! Sad, sounds like I am fighting a losing battle......he said the only thing wrong with us is me thinking and asking we have a problem all the time....how can he bo ok with a nearly sexless, no communitive, passionless marriage....he was the most passionate person I had ever met for years....now he is like a stranger in my bed.....he acts so depressed around me at home during the week, then we go to our lake house on Friday and he is a lot different ! I do not get it....the only time we make love if we do is there and he is drunk and wants to be adventurous all the time, a lot less passionate....kind of nasty fun instead of sweet fun....I like it to a certian extent, but not all the time now....he is just so different !

[whichwayisup]

.....we have a lake house and I am debating on telling him that I am going to stay for awhile to think....knowing him.....he will NOT take that as a red flag and take it as.....extra party time !

 

Then tell him something like this: I am moving into the lakehouse so I can figure out if I want to stay married to you. I hope you use this time apart to figure out what you want as well.

 

You have no control over him and what he choosees to do if you do move out for a little while. Actions speak louder than words, so if he party's it up and uses that time to enjoy himself - Well, there's your answer.

 

how can he bo ok with a nearly sexless, no communitive, passionless marriage....

Because most don't like change, let alone having to deal with problems head-on and work through them. Sometimes it's easier to sweep it all under the rug and hope it goes away on it's own. Problem is, sooner or later the rug gets moved and all that crap comes back.

[cj1988]

Thanks, I will tell him that and hope he does the right thing for him. I am sure I will be fine financially, mentally alone. I own both houses, so I will sell one and live in the other. He has nowhere to go, oh well.

 

I think the reason he treats me in this manner is because I LET HIM. I use to be strong and did not put up with s--- ! Now, I am a coward and do not want to upset him and walk on egg shells.......do you know how bad that bothers me that I do that?????? I want to get ME back and tell him where to go if you know what I mean !

[Tomcat33]

I think the reason he treats me in this manner is because I LET HIM. I use to be strong and did not put up with s--- ! Now, I am a coward and do not want to upset him and walk on egg shells.......do you know how bad that bothers me that I do that?????? I want to get ME back and tell him where to go if you know what I mean !

 

 

CJ then do it! Get "you" back, set your mind to it and just one track mind through it and do it!

 

whats the wost that can happen, you lose him? you already lost him because he has lost himself.

[Lyssa]

Thanks, I will tell him that and hope he does the right thing for him. I am sure I will be fine financially, mentally alone. I own both houses, so I will sell one and live in the other. He has nowhere to go, oh well.

 

I think the reason he treats me in this manner is because I LET HIM. I use to be strong and did not put up with s--- ! Now, I am a coward and do not want to upset him and walk on egg shells.......do you know how bad that bothers me that I do that?????? I want to get ME back and tell him where to go if you know what I mean !

 

Read back on all the threads and posts you have written, it will make you want to get YOU back more now than ever! You don't need all this drama and unhealthy situation. He isn't helping you to get YOU back, you have been miserable with the way he's treating you - tell him to go fly kite!

[Virgo1982]

 

Virgo, to now answer yours....I lived a pretty rough life and intimacy was not something I was good at and did not realize it....I had so many demons inside me, that I took a lot out on him. I would say ugly things when we faught that broke his heart and hurt him badly many times with my tongue ! So, he stuck with me through it, we finally married after 11 years together and then she came along and it all changed....they started talking all day long, he stopped calling me....she came around all the time and they were like magnets....I was invisible when she was around. They said they were just getting to know each other....OK, then they would go swimming late at night when we all were asleep and 1 and 1/2 months after we were married I caught them under the dock supposedly talking.....said something, she said he was drunk and crying about me and was shaking when she got out of the water...ok! Then I caught him in a lie a month or so after that said he was at the lake house, was not there I was waiting and accused him of sleeping with her then.....he called her as soon as we had the fight and told her what I said....I called her 3 minutes later and acted like he was seeing someone else.....she played it off like she had no idea where he was and she knew....he jiust called and told her what I said...first lie.....then after months of weird things, found STAMAX in his truck, they were still talking all the time....I taped them....you can see the conversation on my thread "The taped comversation that haunts me"

 

Ok, so when you were intimacy-challenged, he stuck by you and then he had an affair, but now he resents you. Would you say that's a fair way to summarize?

[cj1988]

Virgo....you are correct ! That is what it seems is happening. He says that he does not understand WHY I want to be nice now and why I want him so badly now when I did not for years....very good point.....but he knew about my horrible past and never considered that it may be that and when I started therapy found out WHY I was the way I was for so long.....I am not making excuses, just stating the facts. It took my 32 years to get help and realize what it was that kept me so angry inside....resentment is totally what he has now....of course,stil denies the affair and always will!

[White Flower]

I'm surprised this thread took the turn it did.

 

To answer a couple questions that were posed:

 

Do I blame the OW for the affair? No. Agreeing to her demands was my fault. I blame myself for being stupid.

 

What happened that I agreed? As I stated earlier I became dependent on her friendship so each time she wanted more if I didn't agree she threatened to remove the friendship. I didn't want to lose it. What she did you could compare to an animal trainer. I was the animal.

 

My wife has eclectic tastes. She reads everywhere and happened upon this site. So no, I am not concerned that many years after our problems she happened to read here. If you believe that I say what I say because my wife may read it that is too bad. My wife knows exactly what I believe and exactly what happened. I don't care if she reads this or not.

 

As I stated in the beginning, I posted here because the idea was stated that if the MM stays with his wife he loses nothing. That seemed to cause pain. I simply wanted to point out that it's not true. He loses a great deal.

 

But I will say that reading this thread has reinforced my aversion therapy.

Hi Fisherman,

I was only pointing out why some people might not trust your post. I certainly do, but just wanted you to understand why I thought so many were at first suspicious. This is in response to the bolded paragraph above.

 

Secondly, I think you're right in that he (Or and WS) loses a great deal. As for me, a MOW (married OW) I am now going through a new phase. I've decided to end things soon and am now left with a certain kind of guilt. It isn't really for the benefit of my H, because I am still so angry with him and the M is over anyway, but I feel the guilt toward myself.

 

This is the first time in my life I have ever done anything secretly. It is amazing how very little I had to lie, if at all, but I certainly was secretive and I'm not comfortable with it. I have always worn my heart on my sleeve. So, how am I going to meet someone new and not tell them about this A? The problem is having to live with myself. I lost the privilege of being able to say I have never cheated. I thought I could just ignore that it happened once, but it really is bigger than that. So, I think your post is valid.

[nadiaj2727]

As for me, a MOW (married OW) I am now going through a new phase. I've decided to end things soon and am now left with a certain kind of guilt. It isn't really for the benefit of my H, because I am still so angry with him and the M is over anyway, but I feel the guilt toward myself.

 

This is the first time in my life I have ever done anything secretly. It is amazing how very little I had to lie, if at all, but I certainly was secretive and I'm not comfortable with it. I have always worn my heart on my sleeve. So, how am I going to meet someone new and not tell them about this A? The problem is having to live with myself. I lost the privilege of being able to say I have never cheated. I thought I could just ignore that it happened once, but it really is bigger than that. So, I think your post is valid.

 

Wow, I undertand this exactly. I feel exactly like that. I am someone who has cheated on someone I loved. I was engaged when I met xMM and broke it off soon after becoming involved with MM... looking back, it was guilt and thinking "I have feelings for MM and I've made out with him, that means I have to break up with my fiance" but now I wish I would have listened to that little voice inside me [conscience? common sense? real love?] saying, "WAIT A MINUTE, *why* are you feeling this way about MM and why do you think you have to break up with your fiance because of it? Stop and examine what you're doing and don't just keep going with your torn and fickle heart." Maybe I could have told my ex fiance what was going on and how confused I was, he is a good guy who would have listened and tried to understand and fought for our relationship. But I was stupid and I didn't know what to do so I kept on doing the wrong thing.

 

I am also someone who participated in an affair with a married man, no matter how much I honestly thought he was separated pending divorce in the beginning. I did not have a good enough character to say "NO, come see me AFTER you're divorced" (or even better, "I'm happy without you and I'm not interested, thanks.") That is part of my past, and I too, like to be open in relationships and feel it is something important to tell a potential serious partner. (Not on the first date of course but eventually I feel I would want to know something like this about him.) I can tell him the truth, at least, that I realized I was doing something awful and stopped it, that I learned a lot from it and that I know for sure I'll never cheat nor help anyone else cheat. But that still doesn't take away the fact that at one time I was a person who would do such a thing that I now know (and knew at the time, but ignored) to be so wrong. I don't know how to deal with this. I've had this guilt since before I started to break up with MM. Breaking up with him helped ease it a lot, b/c I was no longer actively doing something wrong. But I still have that guilt that I *was* doing something wrong and that I was so naive and foolish as to let myself do something I honestly don't believe in.

[cj1988]

Thank you all for caring about me, a stranger. Sad to say you seem to care about me, someone you do not even know, than my own H does right now. I know he stuck with me through my hard times and I want to stay with him through this, but it seems to be so hard right now.

 

We do not talk that often, he never calls me during the day....sometimes we o not talk at all, I am in the bed when he comes home. When we do talk he is defensive and does not want to hear what I have to say even if it is about helping the M. Things I have learned from you all or therapy....he says it is all BS and they do not know US. He tells me he is IN LOVE with me, but I really do not see it!

 

How are we ever going to rebuild this M if he cannot stop the resentment and let go of the past? He holds a grudge forever, family or friends, does not matter....he is a Tarus and the most stubborn man I know !

[luvmy2ns]

I know....the bottomless anger that exists here from BS's to OW's...ughhhh I'm sick of it and I haven't even been here that long.

 

I doubt that the creators of this forum intended it as a place for BS's to come and dump all their anger and obsession onto strangers who had absolutely nothing to do with their own personal situations.

 

I'm sure he also didn't come here to be called a liar by your or the others who did. So transparent of people to call someone a liar when it doesn't back up the claims they make to support their lifestyle of being an OW. "Oh, these poor, misunderstood MMs whose wives never give them sex and are just AWFUL to them alllll the time! We're doing them SUCH a huge favor giving them sex whenever they want and being nice to them and keeping it a secret."

[cj1988]

Agree, an unhappy married person only complicates their already confused life with an A.....look at all these already unhappy people on here now in PAIN in love with another and STILL stuck in their UNHAPPY marriage....now they are REALLY UNHAPPY and more miserable than before, that is just so smart !

[White Flower]

Agree, an unhappy married person only complicates their already confused life with an A.....look at all these already unhappy people on here now in PAIN in love with another and STILL stuck in their UNHAPPY marriage....now they are REALLY UNHAPPY and more miserable than before, that is just so smart !

Can't argue with you there, sister! lol. I totally agree.

[White Flower]

Thank you all for caring about me, a stranger. Sad to say you seem to care about me, someone you do not even know, than my own H does right now. I know he stuck with me through my hard times and I want to stay with him through this, but it seems to be so hard right now.

 

We do not talk that often, he never calls me during the day....sometimes we o not talk at all, I am in the bed when he comes home. When we do talk he is defensive and does not want to hear what I have to say even if it is about helping the M. Things I have learned from you all or therapy....he says it is all BS and they do not know US. He tells me he is IN LOVE with me, but I really do not see it!

 

How are we ever going to rebuild this M if he cannot stop the resentment and let go of the past? He holds a grudge forever, family or friends, does not matter....he is a Tarus and the most stubborn man I know !

Hi CJ,

I wish I had posted to you more, but have had many other discussions/arguments/and nice little chats with so many others. If I could live at LS, I would!

 

It seems that you and I have very many similarities, except the cousin thing. However, my H had an EA with one of his cousin's ex-wives. So, that brings it home and I have to see her all the time. I actually like her now, btw.

 

But my main reason for posting this to you is that your H does not seem to know your love languages. You should get the book The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. I bought it for us years ago and did all the things I thought my H would need. He was delighted. But, he wouldn't read the book and do what I needed. Stubborn as a mule. I bolded all our H's similarities. The stubborn thing can cause a serious form of disrepect called contempt. I saw this Dateline or 20/20 show where this couple who practice marriage counseling together formed this test to indicate a couple's probability of divorcing. Contempt and stubbornness were the leading indicators. It sounds like you and I are hanging on to people who will never respect us enough to give us what we need.

 

Good luck and keep in touch.