Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 OMG.. I can't see why a boss would love to fire and abuse his employees.. why would he do that, just for fun... I don't think so... if it's business, he gains for being nice to his employees and treat them good. You're spinning more into a very straight-forward situation. The question is, should we respect his choice to make himself happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 AGREED...COMPLETELY. However...what about her partner's wives and families? I know that Lizzie has said that what she does has no impact on their marriages, but this is patently wrong. Whatever MM invests in Lizzie...money, time...ESPECIALLY emotions...he's now NOT investing in his wife, or his family. And they suffer for that loss. Even if they don't understand what's going on, they will feel that loss. Its the reason why nearly every BS has that "gut feeling". They sense the emotional withdrawl of their WS, but they often don't know why. That's because its the last thing that they would expect out of the person that they placed all that love and trust into. Its not that they're turning a blind eye...its that its often nearly impossible for them to believe that this person could actually betray them like that. There ARE victims in infidelity... and will always disagree with that statement. In my case, all those men are financially well-off.. their family absolutely doesn't suffer from loss of money or emotional withdrawal... NOT AT ALL... I don't care if you don't agree... you'll never make me change my mind about that.... When a father/husband drinks or smoke... that money is also taken away from their family... None of my MMs are smoking or drinkers.... I know for a fact that they are amazing fathers.... They tell me about their family, etc... Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 But if she were married, chances are her H would be doing the same thing with someone like.....you. Why? There are a multitude of reasons. I don't believe that, I think there are a lot of good men out there who love their wives, honor their marriage vows, and don't cheat. I know some personally. Just because some men are dogs does not mean the "chances" are that every husband will. And I do think this young one is telling her the truth. My MM wishes he could be so honest with his wife, but at times when he did try she would say things like, "Oh, you're sick!". Then he felt the door was shut forever and he just won't go there ever again. For example, how many times a week he masterbates. He can tell me, Lizzie, or any OW these things without being judged. This is one of the reasons a man has an OW. He wants to show an intimate partner who he really is and to be accepted for who he is at the very core. His wife wants him to be respectable, providing, caring, and there. But he wants to know she will love him even when he is dirty or says dirty things. And he doesn't want to be judged for it. Well maybe the problem is is that wives should love their husbands for who they are and not who they want them to be (and husbands, wives). One of my ex boyfriends was very honest with me, he told me how many times he masterbated and said dirty things to me (I loved it ) and told me anything he wanted. I could also tell him anything I wanted. He never made me feel bad about myself, he accepted and loved me as I was, and I did the same for him. It was a much more honest and open R than I had with xMM... xMM was very clingy, insecure, and would go bezerk if I mentioned an ex-boyfriend or if I went out with my friends. So I understand that you and your MM have an open and honest R but I disagree that all MM/ OW Rs are like that, and I also think that husbands and wives who have an open and honest relationship and who love and accept each other for who they are (and remain FAITHFUL to each other even if they occasionally feel like cheating or they're going through rough times, etc.) have it *much* better than any MM/ OW relationship. A marriage CAN be truely fulfilling... at least this is what I personally believe and what I have seen work with some of my friends' marriages, and what I am going to strive for when I find the right (single ) guy. I Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 TC, I'm sorry, I'll try to find it again, I can't put my finger on it right now and I don't have time to keep looking at the moment, but I read something just the other day about domestic murders and how some percentage (I don't remember the exact number) of them were caused by affairs. I know you won't believe me unless I show it to you in black and white, so I'll try to find it again later. OHHH domestic murders yes that is definitely a fact and yes a lot of domestic murders are products of affairs. That is most definitely a known fact. However, if someone is that out of control with their emotions that they would kill their spouse over an affair then the problem is not with the affair but the person who cannot control their emotions. In life there are no gurantees and people will dissapoint us even people we thought we could trust, our own families can dissapoint us at times, but does that mean we can kill someone because they betrayed us? Again that's blaming the symptom not the source Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 OHHH domestic murders yes that is definitely a fact and yes a lot of domestic murders are products of affairs. That is most definitely a known fact. However, if someone is that out of control with their emotions that they would kill their spouse over an affair then the problem is not with the affair but the person who cannot control their emotions. In life there are no gurantees and people will dissapoint us even people we thought we could trust, our own families can dissapoint us at times, but does that mean we can kill someone because they betrayed us? Again that's blaming the symptom not the source By that same logic, why can't OW control their emotions, to stop themselves from getting into tragic situations like affairs? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 By the same token, and to a much different degree, I "felt" PO'd for the little old lady, probably in her 80's, who was almost trampled by the selfish, uncaring little bitch teenagers in K Mart who plowed their way past her to get in line in front of her when she was almost at the checkstand. Had I been the checker, I would have sent the little snot nosed brats to the end of the line. We all have a responsiblity to not be asswipes to eachother. If we all go through this world thinking we can do whatever we want because, after all, we can't "make" anyone feel bad; they just feel how they want to feel; it's not OUR responsibility, this world would SUCK. It's already getting worse and worse day by day with people and their ever increasing "me first" attitudes. If I would have been there I would have told these little brats to go back in line... It's not the checker's job more than yours... Isn't it YOUR responsibility to have said something about this incident? It's easy to say we should or, in this case, the others should do this or that.. when you are just acting as a spectator... hypocritical if you ask me. So my question to you... why didn't you react to those brats? What held you from coming to help this weak old lady .. NOTHING.. it's just easier to mouth off on a anonymous forum than to actually to something when you see something that should be done IRL. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Oh, yeah, I'm sure you raise your own sheep and carefully trim their hair to spin your own yarn for wool sweaters. Well that's good you had the guts to step to the question and face it full on. Ohhhh so we admit that we are ok with killing children off in third world countries then. Well that's a step in the right direction. I don't know what's worse then sleeping with a man who has a wife or killing children abroad? That is a moral question we should all ponder seeing as there are so many moralists amongst us that have their right from wrong defined in a very cut and dry way... So why is one ok and not the other again? Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I don't do the victim thing well as you can see. Yes but you sure do the "selfish" thing well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Another example: The alcoholic who insists on driving drunk. He's happy, therefore he should be respected for his choice in life. We're not talking about illegal substance here... sex is not an addictive 'substance' Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 We're not talking about illegal substance here... sex is not an addictive 'substance' Ever heard of a sex addict? It most certainly can be addictive. Porn and prostitution exist for a reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 By that same logic, why can't OW control their emotions, to stop themselves from getting into tragic situations like affairs? Well some can some can't but at the end of the day they are only hurting themselves with their choices, it's hardly like murdering someone. when you murder someone you deprive another human being from having a life, an A does not deprive someone from having a life, their own actions does. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 "Court certified sane serial killer" that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Yet another reason why the deep flaws in the system leave me with little faith in their judegement and more in my own. By the way you should ask yourself how you can trust a system that deems serial killers as sane and also proposes the moral codes you defend tooth and nail. I try to abide by rules but my major rule is if it makes me feel like crap it can't be good for me. I'm pretty happy that way. I think the system is rotten too... cause they will spend a lot of money and energy trying to find drug dealers or hookers, cause the gov't are not getting the taxes... LOL but on the other hand a serial killer do not contribute financially to society.. know what I mean.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 another ridiculous example people can die from drunk drivers, no one dies from an affair. Get a grip. Well said.. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well some can some can't but at the end of the day they are only hurting themselves with their choices, it's hardly like murdering someone. when you murder someone you deprive another human being from having a life, an A does not deprive someone from having a life, their own actions does. Actions and consequences Tomcat. You get driven by emotion and you pay the price for it. Btw, OW/OM have also killed, from an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 "serial killer" what part of that screams sanity to you? If it does I hope to GOD you never have to represent a trial in a jury. yikes! There are certainly sane serial killers. So I hope people who presume serial killers to be insane aren't on juries. Or what about killers in general... they think they had some excuse/ right to kill someone, and it often brings them pleasure at the time. I don't understand why everyone's being so nit-picky about the "saneness" of killers... the point remains the same, that a person shouldn't go around doing what makes her personally happy or what she feels "entitled" to do (kill someone, sleep with someone else's husband...) and refusing to think about the consequences her actions have on other people (the dead person, the wife and family). If that's your perogative, cool... I suppose it was to me at one time in that I acted on my own feelings instead of reflecting on whether my actions were right or wrong. Now, to me, that attitude lacks integrity. You can't expect people to respect you if you don't respect them. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I think the system is rotten too... cause they will spend a lot of money and energy trying to find drug dealers or hookers, cause the gov't are not getting the taxes... LOL but on the other hand a serial killer do not contribute financially to society.. know what I mean.. Do you pay income tax on your earnings from your side business? Is your side business a registered entity? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Actions and consequences Tomcat. You get driven by emotion and you pay the price for it. Btw, OW/OM have also killed, from an affair. yeah so have common people who are not in affairs, parents have killed children, children have killed parents. Maybe we should all boycott childbearing for frear of getting killed by a child or vice versa :laugh: Electricity kills people too, maybe we should boycott lamps too? C'mon TBF these examples you are giving me are just silly...we are having and adult conversation aren't we? not a grade 5 level one. Link to post Share on other sites
nadiaj2727 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 NO you don't you don't have inner peace and it shows. That's the difference between what I see in Lizzie and you. Where does it show that trialbypeace not have inner peace? I haven't read anything to that effect. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Uhmmm.... people die all the time from affairs... OK..maybe but not as much as they die from being overweight, smoking, taking illegal drugs... etc... etc... I would be curious to see the stats about 'people dies all the time from affairs'... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Are you seriously for real? So just because someone commits a crime against another person, they're insane? Do you not seriously think some people just enjoy making others miserable? There are many different degrees of miserable, you know. At which degree of infliction of misery do you get to decide the inflictor is insane? Ha-hem... Tomcat was talking about serial killer ! You need to get a grip... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 All I see in this thread is an awful lot of justification for selfish behaviours. It's interesting how easily people get sucked into unhealthy lifestyles. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 But lizzie, I have everything you have and more, including my youth. Shall I continue to press this issue with you, knowing full well that it could potentially bother you? Oh yeah??? I don't think so... I will give you the 'youth'.. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Oh yeah??? I don't think so... I will give you the 'youth'.. Wanna' bet? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 But lizzie, I have everything you have and more, including my youth. Shall I continue to press this issue with you, knowing full well that it could potentially bother you? Oh I forgot.. you DON'T have everything I have and more, like you say... I AM HAPPY with my choices... I can't say the same about you... from your recent thread.. You can press this issue all you want.. you will never bother me... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Oh I forgot.. you DON'T have everything I have and more, like you say... I AM HAPPY with my choices... I can't say the same about you... from your recent thread.. You can press this issue all you want.. you will never bother me... So...you're so happy you constantly need validation for your choices... Link to post Share on other sites
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