reboot Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well, I think that's a shame. On the one hand, I'm sure it's great for BS to have a forum where they can get support from others in similar situations. But on the other hand, you can't really understand why "cheaters" do what they do unless you can ask them. And I guess it's not too surprising that they would feel hesitant to wade in among the "cheaters are evil, plain and simple" mindset. Oh well.I agree. I wish more would come and post. WS are pounced on when they show up here. Everyone wants to know how they think. I think that's why a lot of us BS read the OM/OW forum, it's as close as we can get to WS thinking (although, even at that, it's not really that close). Link to post Share on other sites
cj1988 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I agree Reboot, that is why I ask.....maybe some them can help us understand the whole mess we live in daily ! I know you all are a GOD send to me, making me stronger everyday ! Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Why did you keep doing it if it was not fun? Also, what almost drove you to a breakdown, the loss of the OW or your wife or what you had done? The reason I ask is because after I accused my H of the A he still denies, he almost had a nervousbreakdown for 2 weeks, panic attacks etc...until he finally told me he could not take what I accused him of and wanted out......he was still talking and confiding in her all this not me.....what was he so upset about....the truth I caught him and it was out or that I was now ruining the A and he had to stop because everyone was finding out about what I accused him of? I kept doing it because I fell in love. Love is not always fun, and while there were moments of joy there were just as many moments of fear and doubt. The near breakdown came after the A was out in the open and I was faced with trying to keep my new relationship and my family. I know, that sounds stupid, but I actually deluded myself into thinking that there might be a way to work it. Eventually, being torn in two directions took its toll on me. There were moments when I thought I would just kill myself, because I couldn't see putting my kids through a divorce, yet I didn't want to let go of the emotional bond I had formed with OW. As for your H, I can only speculate, but from my point of view I can imagine that he was stressed out by the monumental life choice he faced. Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Its because of lack of resepect, or it was in the case of the MM I knew. He felt he was doing his W a favor by staying with her because she needed him more than he needed her. He didn't feel a need to be remorseful because he was the one the had "given something up" to appease her. If anything he resented her and made her feel that she had to prove to him he made the right choice. It was just an all around ugly situation. I think cheaters that are truly remorseful, show it. If a cheater is not being remorseful, than the WS really needs to look at the relationship and question why they chose to stay in the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well, I think that's a shame. On the one hand, I'm sure it's great for BS to have a forum where they can get support from others in similar situations. But on the other hand, you can't really understand why "cheaters" do what they do unless you can ask them. And I guess it's not too surprising that they would feel hesitant to wade in among the "cheaters are evil, plain and simple" mindset. Oh well. I am one of the ones who actually talks about my infidelity in a hope to help others. There are others here on the board who have had affairs but they never tell the board. I've gotten PM's from several. One thing that is surprising to me is when the questions are asked, and I answer it honestly, then immediately I'm lying or that's not the reason it happened. No one wants to look at themselves and say "Hey you know what? Maybe I do have some responsibility in what happened." It's so much easier to blame it all on the WS. I can tell you why my affair happened-unmet needs. Does that make it right? No. No. No. I take responsibility for the affair, but I will not take responsibility for my having unmet needs that led me to be vulnerable to an affair. Especially after I begged for counseling, and all that I did including point blank telling him what was going to happen if he didn't invest in the marriage. At the time it was an empty threat of course and I had no intentions of acting on it but his inattention to what I said and how it was said really made me think that he didn't love me. And I still believe that he only loved me as much as he was capable of, which was way less than he loved himself. There are some people who cheat who are serial cheaters. They cheat because they can and they have deeper issues. And I consider them to be vile. But there are people out there that have cheated that are still good people. Anger and hurt makes many WS's think differently, and I can understand that- but it's certainly not true. Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 My husband was incredibly remorseful...and that's why he's still my husband! Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I can tell you why my affair happened-unmet needs. Does that make it right? No. No. No. I take responsibility for the affair, but I will not take responsibility for my having unmet needs that led me to be vulnerable to an affair. I don't doubt that Mz. Pixie, but just some food for thought from a very wise psychologist that helped my husband and me, he said that some people are so needy that their needs are impossible to fully meet. Bottomless pits of need if you will. Don't use that as a crutch, because no one else can meet YOUR needs, and sometimes, you might find that you need to readjust those needs because it isn't realistic to expect someone else to provide you with everything you need. If that's the case, you'll never be fulfilled. Just something to think about. Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I don't doubt that Mz. Pixie, but just some food for thought from a very wise psychologist that helped my husband and me, he said that some people are so needy that their needs are impossible to fully meet. Bottomless pits of need if you will. Don't use that as a crutch, because no one else can meet YOUR needs, and sometimes, you might find that you need to readjust those needs because it isn't realistic to expect someone else to provide you with everything you need. If that's the case, you'll never be fulfilled. Just something to think about. You answer to fixing marital problems seems to be "lower your expectations." I don't agree with that at all. That just seems to be a really sad defeating way to look at marriage. As a W that was neglected in her marriage I understand exactly where she is coming from. Even though I did not turn to cheating I understand her motivation. There is no darker more isolating place to be than in a a marriage with some one that doesn't care about you or your happiness. I would think the BS here might understand that. I think instead of trying to fight with her you need to just listen to what she says and accept it. Perhaps you might learn something. Stop trying to confrom her situation to fit your model of what YOU think cheating is about. This is one subject she knows better than you. Accept it. Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 You answer to fixing marital problems seems to be "lower your expectations." I don't agree with that at all. That just seems to be a really sad defeating way to look at marriage. As a W that was neglected in her marriage I understand exactly where she is coming from. Even though I did not turn to cheating I understand her motivation. There is no darker more isolating place to be than in a a marriage with some one that doesn't care about you or your happiness. I would think the BS here might understand that. I think instead of trying to fight with her you need to just listen to what she says and accept it. Perhaps you might learn something. Stop trying to confrom her situation to fit your model of what YOU think cheating is about. This is one subject she knows better than you. Accept it. Not at all, you've misinterpreted my post. If Pixie truly thinks her needs are being unmet, she should either leave her marriage or maybe take a good hard look at whether anyone can meet her needs. I just think "unmet needs" is a classic excuse for many cheaters. I don't know her situation, maybe her husband completely neglected her and ignored her, and if that's the case, and he won't change, then she needs to leave the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 You answer to fixing marital problems seems to be "lower your expectations." I don't agree with that at all. That just seems to be a really sad defeating way to look at marriage. As a W that was neglected in her marriage I understand exactly where she is coming from. Even though I did not turn to cheating I understand her motivation. There is no darker more isolating place to be than in a a marriage with some one that doesn't care about you or your happiness. I would think the BS here might understand that. I think instead of trying to fight with her you need to just listen to what she says and accept it. Perhaps you might learn something. Stop trying to confrom her situation to fit your model of what YOU think cheating is about. This is one subject she knows better than you. Accept it. annabelle, There are two types of needs. Reasonable and unreasonable needs. Each person must decide as an adult, which needs are reasonable. Also, each person must be assertive enough to get their needs met or be prepared to sever a relationship that doesn't meet their needs. You don't go shopping for external validation. Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Oh and Annabelle, where did you see me trying to "fight" with Pixie? Do you view every conversation as a confrontation? You must, because I was trying to help her. Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 annabelle, There are two types of needs. Reasonable and unreasonable needs. Each person must decide as an adult, which needs are reasonable. Also, each person must be assertive enough to get their needs met or be prepared to sever a relationship that doesn't meet their needs. You don't go shopping for external validation. Really? Than why do you all post here? Aren't you looking for external validation? People do it all the time in every shape and form. Yes, even all of you. I refuse to condemn her for her choices. It was her life and she did what she did out of depseration and frustartion in the life she was leading. When woman cheat (unlike men) it is often times their way of making the final break before leaving. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Really? Than why do you all post here? Aren't you looking for external validation? People do it all the time in every shape and form. Yes, even all of you. I refuse to condemn her for her choices. It was her life and she did what she did out of depseration and frustartion in the life she was leading. When woman cheat (unlike men) it is often times their way of making the final break before leaving. What is marriage annabelle? It's a binding agreement between two individuals. If one negates the agreement, the other has the right to sever the agreement. Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 What is marriage annabelle? It's a binding agreement between two individuals. If one negates the agreement, the other has the right to sever the agreement. Yes it is. He negated the agreement by neglecting her. She severed the agreement by cheating on him. It is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Yes it is. He negated the agreement by neglecting her. She severed the agreement by cheating on him. It is what it is. A justification for cheating... Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 A justification for cheating... Yes I'm not afraid to admit it. Saying that cheaters "have unreasonable needs" is just an excuse to not evaluate what part the BS played in neglecting their spouse. Soem times people cheat because they are neglected. It happens more often than anyone here wants to admit. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 annabelle, I'm in an example mood today so here's one for you: A husband feels neglected in a marriage so he runs out and buys a Hum-V and bankrupts the family. I'm guessing by your logic that he's justified to buy the Hummer because she neglected him. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Another example: A wife feels neglected in a marriage so she gains 100 lbs because of low self-esteem. I guess by your logic, she's entitled to do this, regardless of health issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Another example: A husband feels neglected in a marriage so he takes it out on the children, yelling and screaming at them. By your logic, he's entitled to do this. Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 annabelle, I'm in an example mood today so here's one for you: A husband feels neglected in a marriage so he runs out and buys a Hum-V and bankrupts the family. I'm guessing by your logic that he's justified to buy the Hummer because she neglected him. Thats just stupid. What does buying a car have to do with neglect in a relationship? If a spouse is unwilling to participate in the relationship and is neglectful then they shouldn't be surprised if the neglected spouse seeks attention else where. Its pretty basic and simple logic. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Thats just stupid. What does buying a car have to do with neglect in a relationship? If a spouse is unwilling to participate in the relationship and is neglectful then they shouldn't be surprised if the neglected spouse seeks attention else where. Its pretty basic and simple logic. Hey one for one appears to be your logic, so I'm just going by it... Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Another example: A husband feels neglected in a marriage so he takes it out on the children, yelling and screaming at them. By your logic, he's entitled to do this. Sigh ... :rolls eyes: Let's just throw in that he then decided to kill the paper boy. Just as irrelevant to sitaution as your other examples. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Sigh ... :rolls eyes: Let's just throw in that he then decided to kill the paper boy. Just as irrelevant to sitaution as your other examples. By your logic, he sought external validation. Are you suggesting there are limits to how much validation one should seek? Link to post Share on other sites
annabelle75 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 By your logic, he sought external validation. Are you suggesting there are limits to how much validation one should seek? How does terrorizing your children give you validation? Your "examples" are just pathetic attempts to argue with a valid point. If you neglect your spouse don't be surprised if they cheat. Listen and learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 How does terrorizing your children give you validation? Your "examples" are just pathetic attempts to argue with a valid point. If you neglect your spouse don't be surprised if they cheat. Listen and learn. People vent in different ways and look externally for solutions to problems inside of them. Since I've never neglected a spouse, it's a moot lesson to me. Link to post Share on other sites
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