Why is remorse so hard for cheating spouse?

[silktricks]

Thanks for the clarification Bish. What you've said here makes sense and I agree.

[LifesontheUp]

I don't agree with this. My wife has learned so much about how flawed I am as a result of my A, not just relating to the A itself but other things as well. I thought that once I was 'off the pedestal' she wouldn't be able to love me anymore, but I was wrong. And as for friendship, we agree that we're better friends than ever.

 

You are not the man she thought she married, she married you with the belief that you would be faithful. With that comes security, this is what makes the relationship different from any other.........faithfullness, fidelity. When you betrayed her that belief was shattered.

 

Now you can work together to try and fix it and I wish you well with it. What I tried to say is your wife can forgive you, but she will never forget. Its like the death of a child, you learn to live and build your life back up from the devistation it causes, you can build fresh and new memories with the family you have left but you will never ever forget your child.

[bish]

Hi all. I'm new to this forum and this thread caught my eye. I cheated on my husband and told him immediately. I had my own remorse but of course it wasn't enough for him.

 

And you can't blame him for feeling that way either.

 

 

I think the problem is that all people react to situations differently. I was not about to kiss my hubby's ass after telling him I cheated because I knew I didn't want to be with him anymore and what was the point?

 

?? if you didn't want to be with him, then what was the point about telling us your remorse wasn't good enough for him....why would you care if it was good enough unless you were trying to work on the M?

 

I felt how I felt and didn't care if he saw it or not. I still don't really know what he wanted me to do to show him I felt remorseful but I probably wouldn't have done it anyway.

 

Well then why the hell didn't you just get a divorce?? What is it with you people? Get a dose of freakin' decency.

[michaelk]

You are not the man she thought she married, she married you with the belief that you would be faithful. With that comes security, this is what makes the relationship different from any other.........faithfullness, fidelity. When you betrayed her that belief was shattered.

 

Now you can work together to try and fix it and I wish you well with it. What I tried to say is your wife can forgive you, but she will never forget. Its like the death of a child, you learn to live and build your life back up from the devistation it causes, you can build fresh and new memories with the family you have left but you will never ever forget your child.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I wonder... Can you really equate the loss of an ideal image to that of a child?

 

What we're talking about here is something that happens in every relationship. We can't get inside each other's heads, so each partner forms an image of what the other is like. This is based on a combination of their experiences with that person and the projections of their own wants & needs.

 

So you can assume your partner will always be faithful based on the fact that your partner has shown fidelity in the past, both to you and others. But you can never know what their behavior will be in a given situation until they find themselves there. Any feeling of security is based on your internal classification of your partner as a "faithful person".

 

Yes, I understand that she will never perceive me the same way she once did. But that doesn't mean she should continue to grieve the loss of the 'old me' because that was not real. And it doesn't mean that she can't love me again, and perhaps it's a truer love since she now knows how imperfect I am.

[norajane]

Yes, I understand that she will never perceive me the same way she once did. But that doesn't mean she should continue to grieve the loss of the 'old me' because that was not real.

 

Someone who has been betrayed is often grieving the loss of the 'old HER' - the her that didn't have the broken heart, the her who was able to easily trust, the her who didn't have a huge weight on her heart.

[OpenBook]

I understand what you're saying, but I wonder... Can you really equate the loss of an ideal image to that of a child?

 

What we're talking about here is something that happens in every relationship. We can't get inside each other's heads, so each partner forms an image of what the other is like. This is based on a combination of their experiences with that person and the projections of their own wants & needs.

 

So you can assume your partner will always be faithful based on the fact that your partner has shown fidelity in the past, both to you and others. But you can never know what their behavior will be in a given situation until they find themselves there. Any feeling of security is based on your internal classification of your partner as a "faithful person".

 

Yes, I understand that she will never perceive me the same way she once did. But that doesn't mean she should continue to grieve the loss of the 'old me' because that was not real. And it doesn't mean that she can't love me again, and perhaps it's a truer love since she now knows how imperfect I am.

 

Michaelk, my mouth is hanging open. Thank you for sharing this. It is helping me in my own situation.

 

I am also curious... Do you believe that people (you) can really change? I used to think, No way... but some recent IRL events have made me wonder. I know that children can do a complete 180-degree turnaround if they're nurtured in the right environment (it's been proven in the classroom over and over again). I wonder if the same is true of adults... but with different stimuli??

[Frances]

Someone who has been betrayed is often grieving the loss of the 'old HER' - the her that didn't have the broken heart, the her who was able to easily trust, the her who didn't have a huge weight on her heart.

 

 

I think this is what I am doing. I am also grieving the man I thought I knew.

 

Thanks for putting it into words.

[michaelk]

Someone who has been betrayed is often grieving the loss of the 'old HER' - the her that didn't have the broken heart, the her who was able to easily trust, the her who didn't have a huge weight on her heart.

 

Yes, I see.

 

Where trust is concerned, they're really two sides of the same coin, aren't they? The 'old her' was able to easily trust because of her perception of the 'old me' as an ideal man - at least for her.

[michaelk]

Michaelk, my mouth is hanging open. Thank you for sharing this. It is helping me in my own situation.

 

You're welcome I'm very glad my thoughts struck a chord with you.

 

One other thing I'll say as an addendum: Not only can you never know what their behavior will be in a new or different situation, they themselves might not actually know. I never thought of myself as someone who was capable of doing the things I did during my affair. I'd always been very prudent and concerned with doing what was expected of me. That's how I was raised. Now I know that there was a lot more to me, hiding below the surface, and I'm trying to discover and deal with that part of myself in therapy.

 

I am also curious... Do you believe that people (you) can really change? I used to think, No way... but some recent IRL events have made me wonder. I know that children can do a complete 180-degree turnaround if they're nurtured in the right environment (it's been proven in the classroom over and over again). I wonder if the same is true of adults... but with different stimuli??

I have to think that people can change, because otherwise what's the point in examining myself and trying to become a better person? I do think that change is extremely difficult, though. I was never able to will myself to change before - it took the drastic events that almost destroyed my marriage for me to become willing to try and change. I guess that's a very harsh form of stimulus!

 

I think that we have so many behaviors that are unexamined and almost automatic that we tend to live our lives on autopilot. To do otherwise means being able to observe ourselves - not just our actions, but the thoughts and feelings that lead to those actions - and be willing to confront what we find there. This is hard! I've found it challenging yet very rewarding. And I'd like to think that by living a more 'examined life', I can learn to be happy.

[Mz. Pixie]

What is good enough consequences? the wayward spouse displaying anything but a "just drop it already attitude" for one. Any cheater that betrays someone, then expects the betrayed to just drop it..as if they could put it out of their mind just a week or 2 after discovery, needs to be dumped.

 

A betrayer needs to understand that the betrayed is going to be angry and upset for quite a while..and we aren't talking a few days....we are talking a few months. So anything less than empathy and understanding from the cheater is just the cheater trying to get away with murder. They got their gratification, but expect the betrayed to just put it out of their mind.

 

Another consequence, which I don't think is unreasonable...is that of the cheater refraining from being in an environment that they cannot handle themselves in a faithful manner....such as if they went clubbing all the time...that should stop if they truly want to work on the marriage. Yes i know, cheating can happen anywhere...just as I COULD die crossing the street...but I'm SURE to die if I jump in a pit with some hungry lions.

 

But I am not talking about forcing a betrayer to be a prisoner or forcing them to do anything...if they aren't willing to do things on their own, then out the door they should go.

 

And when i said "The other side of the coin is if you don't try to get her to pay the consequences" ...I didn't mean strapping them down and browbeating them into submission....I meant try to get them to do it of their own free will...in other words, the betrayed need to communicate to the cheater what they expect...then let the cheater decide if they are willing to make amends.

 

I actually find myself in agreement with this post.

 

The key is that the WS should WANT to do all these things- the BS shouldn't have to try to get them to do them. They should come out of the gate wanting to do these things, right?

[bish]

I actually find myself in agreement with this post.

 

The key is that the WS should WANT to do all these things- the BS shouldn't have to try to get them to do them. They should come out of the gate wanting to do these things, right?

 

right...and if they don't...then hopefully the door doesn't hit them in the a$$ on the way out...or...hopefully it does.

[michaelk]

I actually find myself in agreement with this post.

 

The key is that the WS should WANT to do all these things- the BS shouldn't have to try to get them to do them. They should come out of the gate wanting to do these things, right?

 

Yes, but how much can you expect "out of the gate"? Remember that both the BS and the WS are in a state of emotional turmoil at the end of an affair. If the WS decides to stay and work on the marriage, it can take a while to emotionally distance him/herself from the affair and put in 100% at home.

 

So, of course the WS should want to do those things. But initially they're probably also wanting whatever gratification they were getting from the A, too. Then, if things go well, both the BS and WS will re-engage slowly over a period of months.

[blindsidedagain]

My WS just won't talk about it unless I bring it up. It has been 6 weeks since d-day, and I am more inclined to split due to her lack of effort.

[bish]

So, of course the WS should want to do those things. But initially they're probably also wanting whatever gratification they were getting from the A, too. Then, if things go well, both the BS and WS will re-engage slowly over a period of months.

 

So if the WS wants to bone someone else...why the hell would a BS want to re-engage with them at all?

 

If I was cheated on, and I was, and I knew that my partner still wanted to screw someone else...there is no way I'd have a shred of dignity or self-esteem if I stayed with that person. And believe me, I tried.

 

Not saying anyone that stays has no dignity or self-esteem...just going by what I feel if what you say is true.

[michaelk]

So if the WS wants to bone someone else...why the hell would a BS want to re-engage with them at all?

 

Because they want to rebuild the marriage, and realize that they aren't the only one who will require time. Emotions can't be turned on and off like a switch, either in the BS or the WS. That's my point.

 

If I was cheated on, and I was, and I knew that my partner still wanted to screw someone else...there is no way I'd have a shred of dignity or self-esteem if I stayed with that person. And believe me, I tried.

Well, if the WS just can't get over the need for sex outside the home, that's one thing. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that if the WS has gotten emotionally involved elsewhere, they need time to deal with the emotional fallout just as the BS does. They each have a difficult transition to go through, albeit for different reasons.

[bish]

Well, if the WS just can't get over the need for sex outside the home, that's one thing. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that if the WS has gotten emotionally involved elsewhere, they need time to deal with the emotional fallout just as the BS does.

 

in my case I am not willing to give a cheater time to deal with emotional fallout...if they are involved emotionally, sexually with someone else, whatever....to hell with them. They want to be involved with someone else, they can be someone elses problem.

[michaelk]

in my case I am not willing to give a cheater time to deal with emotional fallout...if they are involved emotionally, sexually with someone else, whatever....to hell with them. They want to be involved with someone else, they can be someone elses problem.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'm confused. Earlier you said "I tried" in reference to fixing your own marriage. Yet now you're saying "to hell with them" if they're involved with someone else no matter what the circumstances.

[silktricks]

Yes, but how much can you expect "out of the gate"? Remember that both the BS and the WS are in a state of emotional turmoil at the end of an affair. If the WS decides to stay and work on the marriage, it can take a while to emotionally distance him/herself from the affair and put in 100% at home.

 

So, of course the WS should want to do those things. But initially they're probably also wanting whatever gratification they were getting from the A, too. Then, if things go well, both the BS and WS will re-engage slowly over a period of months.

 

All I can say, if that I would (and did) expect an awfully lot "out of the gate". If there would have been the slightest bit of waffling on the part of my husband at ANY point, any question on his part that he could still want something to do with the OW, or any question on my part that he was anything but completely, and I do mean 100% committed to our marriage and to me personally, I would now be a divorced woman.

 

And, if I would have needed to coerce him in any way to show that he was fully and completely committed, I would now be a divorced woman.

[bish]

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'm confused. Earlier you said "I tried" in reference to fixing your own marriage. Yet now you're saying "to hell with them" if they're involved with someone else no matter what the circumstances.

 

Yes, I did try to stay...it killed me to think my kid's lives would basically be ruined.

 

but in the end...living with a cheater is too much and something I will never do if I ever find it out again.

 

So yes...I tried..but after learning better, I do say to hell with them.

[cj1988]

Thanks Michael.....yes, I know he does have a wall....he has had it really bad since the A....I am not sure what he is doing with me sometimes. We had a great weekend. He was really sweet to me (my son left for college and I was down in the dumps) but he still has that front. We had great sex Friday night and then last night, he wormed his way out again. He said I waited to long for it and he was going to sleep (it was 9PM for gods sake) so, as you see I am still confused as to why he has intimacy problems. So, when I mentioned to him this moring that I could take care of myself if he was not in the mood, he got pissed and said "whatever this IS NOT just your world, why do you want to start this s---- this morning?

 

I laid in bed all night, got 2 hours sleep wondering why he is avoiding me again.....we had a great day, did things together (we were off) then this. It would not be so bad if he had not pushed and b----- about to me when I was too tired all those years or he would come home at 11PM and want it then. He forgets that he wanted me everyday for almost 11 years and now this....we have switched. My GF tells me to back off and just ignore him, but she does not realize he will not care. I thought that telling your S that they are not meeting any of your E or P needs was suppose to open the dorr for discussion....instead he gets pissed and defensive. What am I doing wrong? What is so wrong with me wanting to make love to my H?

 

Like I said before, I looked good for my age, and I take care of myself. I have a good body that he ADORED for years and now he does not even look at me when I am changing and I am naked. He use to stare at me all the time. But, I will be damned, he cannot wait for the new BIG strip club to open so we can go see all those naked women. He buys lighters and beer cuzzies with naked women on them (they look like me, tall, skinny and long legs)....he and his best friend talk about sex all the time (joking about it, his friend is 24 and getting a divorce and has not had any in a long time) but for some reason does not want me like I want him right now. He has to be drinking to do anything as well......I am getting sick of it ! It makes me want to go to the club we go to and let him sit back as always and watch all the men that look at me.....he knows what he has and is letting it slip away.

 

 

By the way, I have a lot of threads, go to my name and you will see ! I ask questions all the time ! I am looking for someone to read it and tell me they are my H and WHY he is such a confusing pain in my b--- right now. It is like if I want something, he is NOT going to go for it no matter what it is ! Fights me on everything !

[Cobra_X30]

My WS just won't talk about it unless I bring it up. It has been 6 weeks since d-day, and I am more inclined to split due to her lack of effort.

 

Communicate your need! If she fails to respond, she holds no more value for you!

[reboot]

My WS just won't talk about it unless I bring it up. It has been 6 weeks since d-day, and I am more inclined to split due to her lack of effort.

They never do talk about it unless you bring it up. You can't hold that against her. I think it's a defense mechanism. The WS, even the most repentant of them, almost always wants to just forget it. They were part of it, they can't get away from it, so they deal with it much differently than a BS.

 

Will she talk about it when you bring it up? The important thing is talking about it, openly, truthfully. Not who brings it up.

[cj1988]

Mine will not talk about it at all and on top of it tells me that if I bring it up again he is GONE becasue he is innocent and I better get over it !

 

I said, well honey (this weekend) you will not have to leave me because if I do not find a way to have peace in my heart again and get past it just for one day, you will not have to leave my A-- will leave YOU ! He said, you do what you have to do, you will never make it more than what it was, NOTHING !

[michaelk]

Mine will not talk about it at all and on top of it tells me that if I bring it up again he is GONE becasue he is innocent and I better get over it !

 

I said, well honey (this weekend) you will not have to leave me because if I do not find a way to have peace in my heart again and get past it just for one day, you will not have to leave my A-- will leave YOU ! He said, you do what you have to do, you will never make it more than what it was, NOTHING !

 

Maybe nothing happened. Or maybe he wants your M to end, but doesn't want to be the bad guy.

 

The fact that he's lost interest in sex either says that 1) he doesn't find you attractive anymore, or 2) he's holding some resentment or other negative emotions toward you. You seem to think it's not #1, so draw your own conclusions.

[nadiaj2727]

Mine will not talk about it at all and on top of it tells me that if I bring it up again he is GONE becasue he is innocent and I better get over it !

 

I said, well honey (this weekend) you will not have to leave me because if I do not find a way to have peace in my heart again and get past it just for one day, you will not have to leave my A-- will leave YOU ! He said, you do what you have to do, you will never make it more than what it was, NOTHING !

 

Hi CJ I agree that it sounds like he wants the marriage to end, he just doesn't want to be the bad guy. A lot of MM who cheat are weak like this. They don't know how to make actions/ decisions based on what they really want (usually b/c they haven't even figured out what it is they truely want... they want everything... to have their cake and eat it too), so they wait for one of the women to make the decision for them. They want OW to do something earth-shattering to make them be with her (for awhile anyway... usually they end up back with W) or to give up waiting and leave them.

 

At the same time they want W to just keep putting up with it or to kick them out/ get divorced (for awhile anyway... again, they usually regret it and come begging to be back with W). They want to stay married and have their affair, but if they can't have both, they want someone ELSE to end one or the other, b/c they don't have the strength to do it on their own and they honestly don't know which relationship they want. They definitely don't want to have to work to save the marriage, which is what it will take, but they don't get it.

 

I think the only way anything will change is if you kick him out and file for divorce. Either he'll say good, and leave (and you're better off) or he'll be sorry and want to change (at least temporarily... it's up to you to see if he's serious and whether you want to give him a second chance or not). In the meantime, he's trying to continue only half-being in the marriage, and it isn't making you happy.

 

I think you should do what makes you feel happiest and strongest (although I know this whole situation is quite miserable at the moment... one way or the other, you have to do something to come through it.) Good luck CJ. ~Nadia