When an affair is exposed to the entire nation and costs your job...

[Tony T]

The head of the American Red Cross resigned after it was learned he was having an affair with a subordinate. It didn't help that he was married with children. Isn't it wonderful that people in high places can't be discrete....

 

Go here to read the story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21994150/

[Trialbyfire]

Non-frat rules are there for a reason. If you can't keep it zipped, you risk...exposure...

[KenzieAbsolutely]

i agree, tbf. i wonder what would have happened if the 'partner in crime' was someone outside the red cross.

[Trialbyfire]

Probably not much, unless it's leaked to the press.

[Leia]

Oh see what affairs do to people...

[Trialbyfire]

Oh see what affairs do to people...

Affairs do a lot of damage to everyone involved.

[Leia]

Affairs do a lot of damage to everyone involved.

 

Yes but some chose to think that it doesn't do any damage at all ~ that I don't get.

[head.heart& hand]

This is a sensitive subject for me, and one that I have given much thought.

 

....Some time ago, I came upon a brilliant author whose views I respect very much (and now share). Here's an excerpt from Steven Carter, Professor of Law at Yale University, Entitled: “The Power of Character” --In Defense of Privacy.

 

"It is a tricky matter to insist that the employees of the state meet moral standards that the rest of us are free to flout. Public officials are drawn from the same cultural cauldron that produces the rest of us. If we tell them that they and not we must be sinless, we will most likely discourage from service only those who really are morally better than the rest of us — people of true integrity who have, like all of us, done some wrong in life, but who are not willing to have the scandal-hunting press destroy their reputations and perhaps their families. Instead, we will find ourselves stuck with people of less integrity, who are quite willing to lie if the private wrongs they have done become publicly known".

 

 

If you like what you read, the entire article can be found here:

http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/poc/essay.htm

 

and if you like the above

I highly recommend his books as well.

[head.heart& hand]

This is a sensitive subject for me, and one that I have given much thought.

 

....Some time ago, I came upon a brilliant author whose views I respect very much (and now share). Here's an excerpt from Steven Carter, Professor of Law at Yale University, Entitled: “The Power of Character” --In Defense of Privacy.

 

"It is a tricky matter to insist that the employees of the state meet moral standards that the rest of us are free to flout. Public officials are drawn from the same cultural cauldron that produces the rest of us. If we tell them that they and not we must be sinless, we will most likely discourage from service only those who really are morally better than the rest of us — people of true integrity who have, like all of us, done some wrong in life, but who are not willing to have the scandal-hunting press destroy their reputations and perhaps their families. Instead, we will find ourselves stuck with people of less integrity, who are quite willing to lie if the private wrongs they have done become publicly known".

 

 

If you like what you read, the entire article can be found here:

http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/poc/essay.htm

 

and if you like the above

I highly recommend his books as well.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes but some chose to think that it doesn't do any damage at all ~ that I don't get.

I know. You read about this kind of attitude on LS, all the time. Since I'm an example of collateral damage, my ex-H and his ex-OW, examples of consequences, I think all of us can vouch how damaging, it was.

 

Btw, the only thing that saved my ex-H's job, due to the non-frat rules, was his excellent legal counsel. It cost him a pretty penny, respect and reputation.

[Pyro]

Yes but some chose to think that it doesn't do any damage at all ~ that I don't get.

 

Its the selfish factor. The worlds not a perfect place you know.

[child_of_isis]

He resigned due to 'family matters'. Ow kept her job.

 

I am betting OW was going to bust him out with a sexual harassment suit. So, to keep the sordid details under wrap, he threw in the towel.

 

Karma.

 

Hang on to your hats. We are going to see karma working overtime on cheaters.

[Trialbyfire]

He resigned due to 'family matters'. Ow kept her job.

 

I am betting OW was going to bust him out with a sexual harassment suit. So, to keep the sordid details under wrap, he threw in the towel.

 

Karma.

 

Hang on to your hats. We are going to see karma working overtime on cheaters.

I think she already did that because the Board of Directors already forced his resignation.

[Woggle]

I don't agree with cheating but if both parties were consenting and he was doing a good job he should not have been fired. Personal life and job performance are two seperate things. Most of our good presidents screwed around on the side and it didn't affect things.

[nadiaj2727]

 

....Some time ago, I came upon a brilliant author whose views I respect very much (and now share). Here's an excerpt from Steven Carter, Professor of Law at Yale University, Entitled: “The Power of Character” --In Defense of Privacy.

 

No way HH&H I can't believe you just quoted Steven Carter, I love this author. When I started realizing I was involved in an AFFAIR instead of a relationship with someone who was getting divorced, I decided I wanted to become a better person. Reading Carter's book "Integrity" helped me realize that everything I'd been doing was the opposite of integrity. His view is that integrity is about:

1. Discerning the right or wrong thing to do -- takes active moral reflection

2. ACTING upon what we believe to be right

3. SAYING what we're doing and why.

 

I began to realize that there can NEVER be integrity in affairs because even if a person does # 1 (really thinks about it and thinks they're doing the right thing) and # 2 (begins or continues to stay in an affair b/c they think it's the right thing to do), they can never truly do # 3, which he says is most important: they don't tell people "I love this man/ woman, so I'm with him/ her, despite the fact they he's/ she's married, because I think it's the right thing to do." If they DID, it wouldn't be an affair, because their spouse would say "goodbye or shape up" (which usually happens only after the unfaithful spouse is CAUGHT b/c they didn't have the integrity to own up to their supposed belief and actions... they had to hide it in secret, which is not integrity), and MM would either be with OW or MM... not both, unless it was an open marriage or polygamy etc.

 

I love this author, it's so cool to find someone else who does too.

[Trialbyfire]

There are three reasons for non-frat rules:

• So that anyone in power can't put pressure on someone below them, to force a sexual relationship. (non-consenting adults)
  
• To limit the number of liasons, therefore, the number of civil suits from valid sexual harassment suits. (non-consenting adults)
  
• To limit the number of liasons, therefore, the number of civil suits from invalid sexual harassment suits. (consenting adults but unethical suit)

[Impudent Oyster]

I know. You read about this kind of attitude on LS, all the time. Since I'm an example of collateral damage, my ex-H and his ex-OW, examples of consequences, I think all of us can vouch how damaging, it was.

 

Btw, the only thing that saved my ex-H's job, due to the non-frat rules, was his excellent legal counsel. It cost him a pretty penny, respect and reputation.

 

Ugh, your husband cheated with a co-worker? How cliche.

[Trialbyfire]

Ugh, your husband cheated with a co-worker? How cliche.

He had two ONS with junior staff members, after cocktails... He's an Executive VP. The primary OW blew the whistle on him.

[Impudent Oyster]

I don't agree with cheating but if both parties were consenting and he was doing a good job he should not have been fired. Personal life and job performance are two seperate things. Most of our good presidents screwed around on the side and it didn't affect things.

 

But they didn't screw around with co-workers..that's where it gets messy. Who's to say the OW wasn't being given a raise for reasons other than job performance? What if there's a break-up that results in negative professional repercussions?

 

If you're stupid enough to screw around with a subordinate, it shows a clear lack of judgment. I don't know that I'd want anyone that clueless running my company.

[Impudent Oyster]

He had two ONS with junior staff members, after cocktails... He's an Executive VP. The primary OW blew the whistle on him.

 

Oh brother...my husband has the same position, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard this kind of story before. They think they're masters of the universe, don't they? And the OW make them feel oh so special. I'm sure they wouldn't give them the time of day if these guys were pumping their gas.

[Impudent Oyster]

Just curious TBF, she blew the whistle on him to his employer, or to you, or everyone?

[Trialbyfire]

Oh brother...my husband has the same position, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard this kind of story before. They think they're masters of the universe, don't they? And the OW make them feel oh so special. I'm sure they wouldn't give them the time of day if these guys were pumping their gas.

There's no doubt there was some of this going on, although the two ONSs were new chicklets on the block so claimed they didn't know he was married.

Just curious TBF, she blew the whistle on him to his employer, or to you, or everyone?

Yes, the OW blew the whistle on his employer. She didn't work for the same firm but worked in the same industry. She got around...

 

Edit: I should explain that she did this after he threw her under the bus. It was her act of revenge on him.

[head.heart& hand]

[quote name=nadiaj I love this author' date=' it's so cool to find someone else who does too. [/quote]

 

Cheers nadia! Too bad we can't grab a glass of wine and jam about the book---and other good finds. And yes, I read his book integrity as well! Wouldn't you just love to take a class from Stephen Carter at Yale--- I suppose revisiting the book should provide all the answers I need (perhaps for others too) and here I was searching on LS!-- But hey, everything is connected, so while reading a LS thread, I immediatley went to Carter, and to his article regarding privacy, and to his books -- and unfortunatley, to a very scary time where my story nearly hit the new stand. Phew, and Thank god for attorneys ( knowing you're in this arena you might just say, you're welcome). --more of that connection thing I guess.

 

Back to Carter: Lets see:

1. Discerning the right or wrong thing to do -- takes active moral reflection

2. ACTING upon what we believe to be right

 

I believe the right thing to do is to separate (nc) from the mm to let him resolve his marital issues one way or another, without interfering. Agree? Although the course in arriving at this point has been long and unsteady, this is where I currently am.

 

3. SAYING what we're doing and why. check ( although this will be my mm's part to tell his wife).

 

check, check, check--but who am I fooling --uncheck (with a red pen!) Although I'm trying to do the right thing now---after much anguish, ambivalence, disappointment (mostly in myself but yes, my mm too), and a heap of guilt, I can hardly pretend that what I am doing now is acting with integrity. I 'm struggling. I'm swollen. I miss my dearest friend terribly and I'm selfishly motivated to try to make right, what has never been right. As I write this, I'm still tilting at windmills with Carter books in hand-- Boy do I have a ways to go! I know what I have to do -- yet I so miss the soulful connection of this man.

 

Thanks so much for being here Nadia, I respect you.

[Gwyneth]

I don't think it's fair when affairs are exposed in the media. It's no one's business, really. What Bill Clinton had to go through is just humiliating and sooo unecessary. Fine, he had oral with his intern, yeah, at the White House or wherever, while he should have been working, and he was married (still is, yes), and yes, very bad...bad billy, but c'mon! What the media put him through is just wrong...WRONG!

 

I'm my own hypocrite. Well, I always loathed Angelina Jolie and her cryptic ways, but when her claimed affair with Brad Pitt hit the air waves, I was angry she was this homewrecker, and here I am... I used that as just another excuse not to like the woman.

 

I do not judge celebrities by their personal affairs. I judge them by what they represent--movies, songs, television, etc. It's just not fair their affairs get exposed.

 

I guess that's the cost of being famous.

[meetme26]

My xMM works in a state and in a field where they are terminated on the spot for having "extramarital relations". A few of his co-workers have been exposed for having sex on the job. I miss our R sometimes and since he has now chosen to "work on his marriage", I think about making that "anonymous" phone call. (But it's only a thought.....)