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[frannie]

Just to say, imstunned, I hope you don't feel I'm nagging you or anything. I just want to help you through this, so I hope you take my post in the way it was intended. Hope you're feeling better today

[OpenBook]

I'm wondering (and this might be a stretch, or entirely wrong, so bear with me) whether there is something in you which needs him to have treated you badly, because somewhere inside you're getting a trade-off for this. Perhaps, for example, you feel deep down that men cannot be trusted or will always treat you badly, and that this episode is justifying that belief (and therefore maintaining your world-view). Is there somewhere or some event you've experienced which would have given you this idea about men? Or perhaps you feel that men will always treat you badly because that is what you deserve? i.e. you have a low self-worth and feel that bad treatment will always be your lot in life?

 

Anyway, it's just an idea, based on your continued claiming that there is no explanation for his behaviour. Obviously there is a potential explanation, it's just we don't know whether it's true or not. I would have thought that accepting that explanation would end your pain and confusion, and I'm puzzled why you don't seem to want to address it?

 

OK I'm going to be incredibly rude here and answer for Stunned.:D No, she is NOT looking for someone to treat her badly; it's the opposite. She's looking for someone to love and adore her, just like most of the rest of us. And he certainly behaved that way for awhile toward her!! So of course she fell in love with this guy, thinking maybe it WAS the real thing, finally.

 

She is having a hard time discerning what it meant to HIM. Her feelings were intense... Weren't his as intense? It sure seemed like it while it was happening.

 

Then all of the sudden he did an about-face when his W found out. Why??? How could he turn so easily?? It doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I know what it's like. I've been there, more times than I care to admit. And to tell you the truth, I still don't understand it. All I know is, men can fall in love very easily - but they can also fall OUT OF love just as easily.

 

And they call US fickle!!

[marlena]

Stun,

 

I have often thought the same thing as Frannie. I know that when I did my research on Narcissists, I got all the anwers I desperately needed at the time. Suddenly it all began to fall into place. At last, I was able to understand what had happened to me and why it had happened to me.

 

This was the beginning of my healing process and a new self - awareness.

 

Stun, the man who did this to me came back three times and I rebuffed all three efforts. Do you know why? Because armed with the knowledge I had acquired from my reading, I was AFRAID to go back. And don't for a second think I didn't want to see him again. I did. And very much so. I resolved not to because I realized that I was dealing with a very sick man who would probably hurt me even more the next time round. So, I listened to my head and protected myself. Add to the mix, a huge dose of NC and I am doing very well.

 

Your ex sounds very much the narcissist. Do the reading like Frannie it says. It will supply you with the answers. After you have done the reading, if you still desire this man, then, you need to ask yourself what is wrong with you that you could love someone like this. I do not mean this harshly. I mean it kindly.

 

I too had to do a lot of self -searching. I needed to own up to my own responsibility in the mess. After all, I enabled him to exploit me. That's when the real hard work started. I had to admit to myself that I had established a pattern, a very destructive one, that needed to be broken. I chanelled all my energy into changing what was defective in me so as to ensure that I would never be a target for those types again.

 

I, like Frannie and a lot of people in here, are only trying to help as much as we can. We all have your best interests at heart.

 

Marlena

[imstunned]

She's looking for someone to love and adore her, just like most of the rest of us. And he certainly behaved that way for awhile toward her!! So of course she fell in love with this guy, thinking maybe it WAS the real thing, finally.

 

She is having a hard time discerning what it meant to HIM. Her feelings were intense... Weren't his as intense? It sure seemed like it while it was happening.

 

Then all of the sudden he did an about-face when his W found out. Why??? How could he turn so easily?? It doesn't make any sense at all.

 

This is BANG on for how I feel. I just dont understand. But Frannie - your post raised some hard questions which I dont know if I can answer. I have been treated very badly by men, I honestly dont think any man has ever loved me - really loved me, and I dont think I'm ever going to have the relationship I want with a man. It seems that every subsequent experience I have re affirms that - even when I'm not aware of it - like with my exmm. I thought he was lovely and REALLY, REALLY INTO me. Then look waht happened.

 

I didnt relaise that I hadnt acknowledged your posts or quotes about N - it wasnt intentional. I have done ALOT of reading about it, and its not that I think he either is or isnt, its just that thnking of him in that way does not give me the answers I am looking for - it dosent add up if you like. Now this could be because I have a picture of him in my head all happy and lovey dovey with his wife and kids. Its like i cant accept that he is a N with me as I think he isnt one with his wife. Does that make any sense??

 

Now - IF I could get a better picture of their M (impossible) or change my make believe picture into one less romanitc then I may be a bit further down the road to seeing some truth in the N personality triats he may have.

 

Really - I am just struggling with how easliy he threw me under the bus, and the fact that that demonstrates so clearly how little he cared for me. IF he had seen me once in a blue moon and hadnt been in contact with me all the time in between the I could understand it all a bit more- but he wanted to be in contact with me to the extent that he pretended to be his friend so he could text me.

 

I actually think it would be good for me to finally settle on the fact that the guy did like me, didnt USE me, made up some whopping lies both to allow him to see me and make me like him, who got busted and has to stay put.

 

I spoke to a male friend who I havent seen in a while - last he had heard exMM was still my climber BF. He got a brief run down and he said IMMEDIATELY - well he obviously made up all the lies so that you would like him, he probably didnt think you would go for the "real" him.

 

And - I totally agree that he cant like himself very much. I quite like mysellf and hence have no need to make up anything about myself - I'm happy with who I am. he did admit on the phone to me the other week that he is a total B*stared - but I have just this afternoon read all the texts again and all I see is "I need to work things out with wife" "We are making a go of things" etc. Why couldnt he have been a bit kinder and said he was staying for the kids or someting?? Why am I STILL hurting so much over this A**HOLE??

 

By the way - thanks for all the replies. Dont know what I'd do wthout youx

[imstunned]

Its literllay just occured to me why I dont seem to think my ex MM is a N. I am influenced by what I read on here from BS's and wayward married men. They are full of love, and remorse for their spouses. so must my exmm be I guess. Kills me.

[OpenBook]

I spoke to a male friend who I havent seen in a while - last he had heard exMM was still my climber BF. He got a brief run down and he said IMMEDIATELY - well he obviously made up all the lies so that you would like him, he probably didnt think you would go for the "real" him.

 

... all I see is "I need to work things out with wife" "We are making a go of things" etc.

 

Its literllay just occured to me why I dont seem to think my ex MM is a N. I am influenced by what I read on here from BS's and wayward married men. They are full of love, and remorse for their spouses. so must my exmm be I guess. Kills me.

 

Some are just what they appear to be @$$whipes with no conscious.

 

:D:D Well I don't know about that, but I do know most of them can be "full of it" when they're on a mission!! They pump themselves up like a peacock... and think nothing of lying like a rug - as long as it makes them look good in front of us women. In a way it's sweet that they would put so much effort into impressing us. But I think sometimes we women are a little too gullible, too ready to accept the facade.

 

Stunned, in your case I think that was the only thing d*ckhead could think of to say to you that would justify his "throwing you under the bus" -- he is still trying to make himself out to be the "good guy" in all this -- oh, gotta go work on the M now!! Yeah right. I don't believe a word of it. A leopard doesn't change his spots. I predict he will repeat the same behavior soon (if he hasn't already) with some other unsuspecting OW -- the next "mountain he has to climb." I just hope she recognizes his horsesh*t and flips the script on him. Now THAT'S a fantasy worth dreaming about!!

[whichwayisup]

Until your heart closes off to him, you cannot nor are you really willing to see him in the bad light, see him for who he is. Your mind may tell you all this, and you read it from us, but your heart and emotions are still very much attached and you can't handle thinking that he is just a big fat selfish pr*ck.

 

You have time on your hands to heal, and one day it will hit you and you'll no longer want to wallow in pain, want to miss him and want what you thought "was" great...you'll believe that he never "was" that guy, you'll believe that he is that big selfish pr*ck and you'll want nothing more to do with him, thought wise too!

 

Allowing yourself to want what you didn't really have, is only making this worse on you. I know you can't help it and you're trying really hard, but I really believe that once you decide he isn't worthy of another tear, another thought, get fed up and brush yourself off, you'll feel lighter and happier. Somehow, you need to make peace - And the only way to do that is to continue to fight the urges to contact him - Continue to post, continue to allow yourself to have those bad and sad moments but don't let them last for long. Surround yourself with friends, family and loved ones - Keep busy and ENJOY the positives in your life. Build upon that and each day you will feel better.

 

Hope this helps.

[imstunned]

thanks guys. I thought I had got my head around the fact that my ex mm isnt who he presented himeslf to be - but the fact that i am struggling so much I think shows that I havent. I still seem to be thinking he is a good person, hence my agony when I think of him with his wife.

 

I feel really really confused, and cant even really expalin what about. Well - all about him really. I just wish I knew what was going on in his head that whole time! I have just had a hour long conversation with a very close male friend of mine who always puts a good male perspective on things - he alwasy reminds me that I wasnt rejected he was just buested etc - but the fact is that I SHOULDNT really care - or wouldnt really care if I was seeing him the same way as you all do.

 

Dont really know how to get past that one. BUT - thankfully I can post here rather than contact him. FOR ME I have done quite well in not contacting him. I'm sure even he is suprised.

[Mittens]

...stunned, I feel exactly the same as you.

 

Still thinking of the ex as a good person....check

 

Tortured by thoughts of him with his GF....check

 

Wondering if he ever really loved me....check

 

Why am I still so upset....check

 

just why, why, why...all the damned time. And the one that bothers me the most...

 

Does he ever miss me?

 

You are not alone, I hope it gets easier for you soon

[norajane]

thanks guys. I thought I had got my head around the fact that my ex mm isnt who he presented himeslf to be - but the fact that i am struggling so much I think shows that I havent. I still seem to be thinking he is a good person, hence my agony when I think of him with his wife.

 

Maybe you need to take it one step, one thought at a time. Banish every other thought from your head until you can truly wrap your mind around this and accept it and internalize it:

 

GOOD PEOPLE DO NOT PRETEND THEY ARE DYING OR DEAD. PERIOD.

 

Now, every time you find yourself thinking he's a good person, say that to yourself over and over and over.

 

GOOD PEOPLE DO NOT PRETEND THEY ARE DYING OR DEAD. PERIOD.

[imstunned]

Thanks mittens -- its good to now its not just me going round in circles - and i'd DO ANYTHING to know if he was missing me (well hoping tha answer is yes of course).

 

Nora jane - I am going to try and do just that. I find the fact that he pretended to be dead or dying and then acutally DEAD so unfathomable that I dont think about it. I simply cannot get my head around it, especially as I spoke to him about it after it happended the first time. He KNEW the sheer agony it casued me and how hard I tried to accept his choices and his life. It was made out to kind of be the deal - date me as long as you accept that I may die.

 

Perhaps if I can think about this and get my head around this rather than brushing it under my little imaginary carpet it will be a start.

 

Thank you. I'll give it a good go. Everything else hasnt worked, I still miss the guy, want him, if the thought of him so much as looking at me with those brown eyes pops into my head - well lets just say it still ligts my fire. Like I am still physically reacting to him even though he isnt even here. He is busy having his fire lit by his wife. B*stard.

[frannie]

This is BANG on for how I feel. I just dont understand. But Frannie - your post raised some hard questions which I dont know if I can answer. I have been treated very badly by men, I honestly dont think any man has ever loved me - really loved me, and I dont think I'm ever going to have the relationship I want with a man. It seems that every subsequent experience I have re affirms that - even when I'm not aware of it - like with my exmm. I thought he was lovely and REALLY, REALLY INTO me. Then look waht happened.

 

I didnt relaise that I hadnt acknowledged your posts or quotes about N - it wasnt intentional. I have done ALOT of reading about it, and its not that I think he either is or isnt, its just that thnking of him in that way does not give me the answers I am looking for - it dosent add up if you like. Now this could be because I have a picture of him in my head all happy and lovey dovey with his wife and kids. Its like i cant accept that he is a N with me as I think he isnt one with his wife. Does that make any sense??

 

Now - IF I could get a better picture of their M (impossible) or change my make believe picture into one less romanitc then I may be a bit further down the road to seeing some truth in the N personality triats he may have.

 

Really - I am just struggling with how easliy he threw me under the bus, and the fact that that demonstrates so clearly how little he cared for me. IF he had seen me once in a blue moon and hadnt been in contact with me all the time in between the I could understand it all a bit more- but he wanted to be in contact with me to the extent that he pretended to be his friend so he could text me.

 

I actually think it would be good for me to finally settle on the fact that the guy did like me, didnt USE me, made up some whopping lies both to allow him to see me and make me like him, who got busted and has to stay put.

 

imstunned, your first paragraph does sort of answer my previous post. You say that you don't believe you'll ever have a good relationship with a man. Now, why do you think that is? Is it because all men are bad, is it because you are bad at choosing the good ones? is it because you (believe you) don't deserve a good relationship?

 

Because a good relationship with a good man IS possible for you. Do you believe that..?

 

I think that somewhere inside you possibly don't believe it... which is why you say in your second paragraph: thinking about him as a N (or any other kind of 'bad person') doesn't 'add up' or 'give you the answers you're looking for'. I think (jmho here) that it doesn't add up because if it did, if it were possible to see the 'bad' people from the good ones, it would make it possible for you to find a good one and have a good relationship.

 

I don't know if that's clear, right, or rings any bells, but it's what I'm thinking and feeling is going on here.

 

Then you go on to continue to choose to believe, out of all the possible choices you could make, to choose that his life at home is wonderful. Ask yourself why you're choosing that picture above a more likely one.

 

Finally, in the last two paragraphs I snipped, you say you see evidence of how little he cared for you, but then go on to say it would be good for you to settle on how he DID care for you and didn't use you. If you're trying to believe the impossible, it's no wonder you're having trouble.

 

One last question: why is it so important to you to believe that he was a good man (capable of having a good marriage and a loving home environment with someone else, but not you) who treated you badly?

 

Once again, I hope you know this is meant to help x

[imstunned]

Hi Frannie - thanks for your post. I dont know the answers to these questions. I am aware that I have taken the man I thought he was and placed him back in his M. Its like because of him sticking to this NC with me that I think he must be a good guy working on his M: He wants to be with her, not with me. Loves her not me. Seems pretty clear to me, its not that i'd rather think of it all in a way that reflects badly on me - this is just the way I see it.

 

Also I really dont believe that he did just use me for sex - no matter what anyone says, I dont think its as black and white as that. He could have got that anywhere. he is a good looking guy!

 

I do think there are good guys out there - but they seem to be taken (ironically this is what I think when I think of exMM - not doing a good job am I??) - or not interested in me. Its unfortunate really that the two guys I have kind of gone out with (not in a dating way - but as friends as they were old school friends) were out with me basically as they knew I had split with exmm and were esentially out for sex with me. I told the pair of them to get lost basically, but its just more of the same - men wanting sex from me. Perhaps its the same for other women but they dont take this as a kind of personal insult - maybe I should be flattered?

 

I dont know. All I know is I miss my him like mad. Think about him all the time. Am cut up about the fact he is married with kids and I wont be seeing him ever again. The more I think about things the more confused I get. My guess is that I wil be like this untill I simply dont care anymore. god knows how long that will take.

 

I can see other situations on these boards very clearly - if I were to give my opinion I think it would come accross harsh. . . .funny how I cant see my own situation clearly. If this is still the fog then I wish to hell it would clear!!!!!

[imstunned]

I'm just posting this as at the moment I am upset - and perhaps those of you who will respond to me will be able to give me some clarity - and tel me if I am going nuts or if its reasonable to be a bit uspet. This is to do with other men . ..

 

When I found my ex was married I met with a male friend who essentially wanted to take me home with him. I didnt go & came home alone. I wondered recently if I had made a mistake (he seems a really decent bloke) and texted about going out for a drink - he said we should play it by ear - I posted on here about it as I was upset again. . . .i texted asking about it the night before we were both due at an exhebition opening - with a toddler I cant play it by ear. . .he said he couldnt as he was going out "with the new chick". Charming. That was last week.

 

Now about a month ago I met up with another old friend who contacted me through good old face book. After a while of mesaaging etc (just friendly flirting) I was out with friends, and he his, we were texting, I told him to come and get me. He did. Gave me a lift home and came up for a drink. Made it clear he would like sex with me (we had a fling in my early 20's - 13 years ago or so) but that he wasnt looking for a reltionship. We didnt sleep together, but he went in for a kiss when he left and I kissed him back. . .then he was texing me pretty full on texts until he finally got the message that I wasnt interested in being a notch on his bed post. He then stopped contacting me, and actually said - ok I get the message I'll stop peseting you! Now he has just updated his profile on face book to show as being in a relationship. So eveidently it WAS ME he wasnt looking for a relationship with. Same as ExMM and the other guy.

 

Is it me?? Am I seeing things the wrong way round?? Am I overreacting to this by being really upset? Whats the deal with these men just wanting sex with me?? I have my ex MM to thank for feeling like this. I want to blow his happy bl**dy family apart!

[imstunned]

deleted as posted twice in error

[Shades of Grey]

You're vulnerable I.S and that will come across and you probably seek comfort and validation from these men. The trouble is that they will recognise your vulnerability and try and take advantage. It's no refelection on you, just probably the way in which you're coming across at the moment which is a direct result of what you've been through.

 

Try and protect yourself by avoiding situations like this and concentrate on your healing. When you're in a better place you will attract the right kind of men.

 

And don't be upset - be pleased that you didn't cave in and respond to them otherwise you could be feeling a whole lot worse right now. x

[imstunned]

Thanks SOG. I feel like a complete basket case. I didnt even want either of them. BOTH of them are total players, so perhaps I did good by not going any where near EITHER of them. Not sure what signals I'm giving off, nothing I am aware of that signals I'm up for getting laid!

[Shades of Grey]

You did do good. Very good. And i'm not saying that you are giving off "hey i'm easy signals" more "i'm lonely and vulnerable" signals which players like these guys interpret to their own ends. Hope that makes sense. x

[lunaloki]

im new, i spent the day reading your story, i hope you are okay. i just cant believe someone can live such a double life and then chuck someone like you were chucked. ive been reading threads trying to understand "ow"s because my husband and i have some dear friends in this situation....you are a fine and beautiful person and i wish you the best....i hope you are okay...what a strange fate, im sure you cant stop asking youreself why me??? what the hell???? best and kindest wishes from lunaloki xoxoxox

[imstunned]

Wow - thanks luna - thats kind of you.