I finally lost it!

[Touche]

She wanted to cancel the Oregon trip and take the SF trip instead and I was really fine with that. In some ways, I'm quite flexible.

 

It's hard to explain my reasoning about the cancellation of the SF trip without being somewhat disparaging of my wife which isn't my normal style or one I'm comfortable with.

 

Suffice it to sayI wanted to see some tangible effort put into our relationship from her and some improvement in her approach to "us" before I committed to not just the expense but spending that kind of time with her 24/7.

 

I simply told her that if she was not getting any pleasure from our marriage at this particular time, I wasn't willing to inject artificial pleasure, i.e. a trip, into the mix. We have to have it here before we try to take it elsewhere.

 

Well, we'll have to disagree on this one, Curm. It's like Dr. Phil says (sorry!) "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

 

I think you made the wrong decision there.

 

I understand not wanting to put down your wife and not wanting to be "disparaging." But why not be honest if it will help you think this all through? If not here, then at least with yourself.

 

Obviously, she's driving you nuts right now. Hell, my H does drive me nuts too sometimes BUT, we must look at the big picture, right? Does she mostly make you happy? Are you trying to get back at her for the times when she doesn't? All questions to ask yourself. I really don't get why you canceled the trip. I don't get the notion of "artificial pleasure."

 

Any time we spend being happy with our spouses, isn't "artificial" to me. It's rather meaningful. And can be very refreshing. It can even set a new tone.

 

How does she feel about the fact that you canceled the trip? And are you really as flexible as you say you are?

 

Not trying to give you a hard time, Curm. You know I'm 99% on your side. But on this one...hmmm, not sure. I think you're maybe making a mistake here.

[RecordProducer]

My instinct tells me you are right for one another.

My instinct tells me that Curm and I are right for each other! :cool:

 

Actually, my instinct tells me that Curm is right for any woman.

 

I really don't get why you canceled the trip. I don't get the notion of "artificial pleasure."

 

Any time we spend being happy with our spouses, isn't "artificial" to me. It's rather meaningful. And can be very refreshing. It can even set a new tone.

 

Artificial means that they travel to the destination in bad terms, frown and grumpy, after which SF becomes Curm's least favorite city.

 

Last April, H and I had problems when he decided to fly to Florida. he wanted me to fly with him, but I refused. One day later, I terribly missed him and flew down with the kids. Things were great for a day or two, but then they spontaneously turned from bright to grey to very dark. It was the worst vacation ever! The fact that we fought in a 400-dollar-per-night (yet average) hotel and the beautiful weather were not refreshing and didn't bring a new tone. The tone was still very loud.

[marlena]

My instinct tells me that Curm and I are right for each other! :cool:

 

Funny! My instinct tells me the exact same thing! May the best woman win!!!!

 

Curm,

Starting a new life at this age is not an easy feat! You need to give this marriage all you've got. Having said that, I agree with AC and others that life is too short to waste and that as altruistic and loving and supportive you may be, you do have to at some point in your life think of your own happiness and well- being. If the situation becomes intolerable (which I know it won't) then, yes, you may have to cut your losses and move on. Only you know your level of tolerance.

 

I think putting off that trip, reagrdless of destination, was a mistake. It may be JUST what the two of you need right now!

 

Best wishes,

Marlena

[Ariadne]

I cancelled the train. I cancelled the hotel. I'm going to cancel most of my scheduled vacation. Why bother?

 

You are really "loco" lately, ah Curm?

 

Ariadne

[Curmudgeon]

I understand not wanting to put down your wife and not wanting to be "disparaging." But why not be honest if it will help you think this all through? If not here, then at least with yourself.

 

Like most bipolars, my wife self-medicates when she's depressed and sometimes when manic as well. Her "drug" of choice is alcohol and she's been hitting it hard for the past five years since she retired. Consequently, her hygiene and appearance have gone to hell, her health is going downhill and she's normally not someone who I look forward to coming home to at night. I don't talk to ANYONE so far gone they make no sense or become verbally aggressive.

 

If I want dinner, 4-5 nights our of 7 I have to make it. Thankfully, I'm a very good cook and, yes, if I cook for myself I cook for her as well. If I need clean laundry I'd best get about doing it myself or chances are it won't get done. Same with grocery and household shopping. On top of this I work 40+ hours a week in a very fast-paced profession so when I do get home at the end of the day, domestic chores are not high on my list but they're necessary and I do them.

 

Obviously, she's driving you nuts right now. Does she mostly make you happy? Are you trying to get back at her for the times when she doesn't?

 

Of late she does not make me happy, at all. There's no get-back here.

 

Any time we spend being happy with our spouses, isn't "artificial" to me.

 

The key is, "being happy." She'd pull herself together for the trip but as soon as we returned it would be the same old - same old. That's what I meant by artificial happiness.

 

How does she feel about the fact that you canceled the trip? And are you really as flexible as you say you are?

 

She's none too pleased but to me it would be like throwing good money, and quite a bit of it, after bad. What's the sense? She's well aware of my reasons because of late I've moved past pulling my "punches." And yes, I am that flexible as well as a great believer in spontaneity.

 

I think you're maybe making a mistake here.

 

I think maybe I made one 11 years ago!

 

Please understand, in all other ways we're a great fit and the first six years we were together were nothing short of magical. I'm still very devoted to my wife but that doesn't necessarily mean I can remain with her if all this doesn't change.

 

My wife is well aware of my feelings and knows that if she does not completely follow the new treatment plan she'll get next week, which will also include med changes and adjustments, all bets may be off.

[Ariadne]

Wow,

 

If I want dinner, 4-5 nights our of 7 I have to make it. Thankfully, I'm a very good cook and, yes, if I cook for myself I cook for her as well. If I need clean laundry I'd best get about doing it myself or chances are it won't get done. Same with grocery and household shopping.

 

She is a disaster! haha

 

Is like living with a baby. Poor Curm.

 

Ariadne

[Curmudgeon]

I think putting off that trip, reagrdless of destination, was a mistake. It may be JUST what the two of you need right now!

 

Best wishes,

Marlena

 

Thanks, Marlena. My view is that if we can't get along here at home and if she can't pull her act together for her husband during "normal" times then why bother manufacturing fun? It will only be expensive, frustrating and fleeting., The same problems we left at home for the days we were having our "fun" would still be here when we returned.

 

I'll give her any vacation she wants (that I can afford) when the person I spend that time with is the same person I wake up to the morning after our return.

 

For "the rest of the story," please read here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1431101#post1431101

[Curmudgeon]

You are really "loco" lately, ah Curm?

 

Ariadne

 

Good morning, Ariadne. Maybe I am a bit off balance but if you'll my response to Marlena as well as the response I posted the link to I think you'll get a better idea of what's been going on.

 

If, after that, you still think I'm loco then so be it.

[Touche]

Well, that changes everything. She's certainly not holding up her end of things and is being very unfair to you. There's no balance here. I thought you were being a tad militant before but no more. I absolutely agree with your position.

 

Do you think she'll meet your conditions?

 

Ariadne, why do you say "ha ha." There's nothing funny about this.

 

Curm, you deserve better from her. And in a way, I DO agree with Ariadne. It is like living with a child from the sound of it. She needs help. And you need and deserve an equal partner. Right now, it sounds like she's just dead weight dragging you down. That must change.

 

And if she's drinking to the point where she's THAT dysfunctional, she needs to stop or go to AA or something. I battle my own demons with alcohol. I've made no secret about it. I too "self-medicate." But I could never live with myself if I didn't feel (or if my H didn't feel) that I wasn't holding up my end of things. I do have some pride. And it's very important to me that we be a team. I don't ever want my H to be my care-taker or for him to feel that I'm not a contributing partner in our marriage.

 

I'm sure she's in a lot of pain now. But it sounds like she needs this "kick in the ass" that you're giving her. I really see and understand your stance on this now.

 

It's all up to her now.

[marlena]

Curm,

 

I'm really sorry you are going through this. What you posted unfortunately clarifies the horrible position you are in. I will read your link as soon as possible and get back to you.

 

You have a lot of people in here who care about you, if that's any comfort.

[Can'tGiveUp]

wow. I'm sorry for all that you are going through.

 

My only question is whether you attend her doctor appointments with her? Is her doctor aware of her "self-medicating" and/or can she be relied on to be honest with him/her? The interaction of alcohol and prescription drugs can be nasty and the effects of the drugs not what was intended.

 

I hope all goes better and she follows through.

[Curmudgeon]

I do, in fact, go to some of her appointments with her and it's usually because she's asked me to. Even when I'm not there she's quite honest with her psychiatrist. At issue is her follow-up after the appointments.

 

I think I finally got through to her on Friday when I made it clear that things had finally reached crisis stage and she admitted and agreed that I deserved far better than what I've been subjected to for the past several years.

 

I don't know what tomorrow will bring but she hasn't had a drink since early Friday evening, there's nothing to drink in the house and we've had a very pleasant and productive weekend.

[Can'tGiveUp]

Perhaps the gravity of the situation and the realization that she may lose you has finally hit her. Hopefully this will be the impetus to keep her on the right program.

 

I'm glad your weekend has gone well!

[RecordProducer]

Like most bipolars, my wife self-medicates when she's depressed and sometimes when manic as well. Her "drug" of choice is alcohol and she's been hitting it hard for the past five years since she retired.

At least it's not amphetamines like in the case of a bipolar person I know of.

 

Of late she does not make me happy, at all.

I've noticed that the lion in your avatar changed from angry to sad.

I think maybe I made one 11 years ago!

Curmy, I understand your position. It's very difficult to live with a mentally ill person and you are so brave and noble for not running away from it. But, at least you had six wonderful years of love. Many people can't add that many years of happiness in love.

 

 

My wife is well aware of my feelings and knows that if she does not completely follow the new treatment plan she'll get next week, which will also include med changes and adjustments, all bets may be off.

OK, you're not obligated to live with her if you don't want to. An acquaintance of mine told me that her brother was schizophrenic. He would do all kinds of things (follow his sister around, talk to himself all night, etc.), but when his mother would threaten him that she would institutionalize him, he would come down for a certain period. This means that even the people with big issues understand how they should behave. It's just that it's very difficult for them to fit the society. They become their real selves because they feel comfortable in their home, with people who love them and sacrifice for them. But, they can perfectly fake normalcy outside their homes. If you try to fix her and use authority, she may "change" and start behaving. But, what you need to reconcile with is that THIS is her real self. This is who she is deep inside. I don't count the booze in it - the booze is not her.When she doesn't drink - that's who she is.

 

At issue is her follow-up after the appointments.

Employ authority and threats, whatever it takes.

 

I don't know what tomorrow will bring but she hasn't had a drink since early Friday evening, there's nothing to drink in the house and we've had a very pleasant and productive weekend.

Find ways to prevent her from drinking then. Alcohol ruins mentally healthy people, too.

[LakesideDream]

Crum, I started being concerned when I saw your name under the thread title. You and I are a couple of the Geezers here on the board who have been run through the wringer, and managed to survive.

 

I think I know some of what you are feeling. I know how scarey it is to ponder the "golden years" alone. I also know how frusterating it can be to live in a chaotic situation like you describe.

 

You are a wise man and a good soul. The only advise I dare give is to be careful. When you are making decisions, do some "square breathing" before you share your ideas. Usually when a person is frusterated and under heavy pressure the first impluse is to do something to relieve the pressure, an endorphine rush however short. Try not to make those decisions until you calm a bit.

 

Step softly Crum, softly.

[marlena]

Just wanted to say hi and express my hope that things are a little bit better for you these days. You are in a very difficult situation at a time in life when you should be reaping the benefits of all that you have accomplished in life. I have no advice to give to someone I admire so much so all I can do is give you my support and best wishes! I know that you will do the best you can with a very difficult situation.

 

Marlena

[Curmudgeon]

Just wanted to say hi and express my hope that things are a little bit better for you these days. You are in a very difficult situation at a time in life when you should be reaping the benefits of all that you have accomplished in life. I have no advice to give to someone I admire so much so all I can do is give you my support and best wishes! I know that you will do the best you can with a very difficult situation.

 

Marlena

 

...could ask for more, Marlena. Thank you.

 

Things were looking better this weekend then as soon as I returned to work -- a necessary evil -- they started heading downhill again. There was no drinking at all during the weekend and we both stopped smoking. Now, day 5, I'm still not smoking but she is again and is drinking again as well.

 

I begin vacation on the 20th through New Year's Day. I think it's going to be pivotal. If all remains as it is and has been I may be asking her to leave!

 

Of course, her Pdoc appointment is the day after tomorrow so maybe that will work some wonders. Something has to. Clearly nothing I've tried works.

[Curmudgeon]

Crum, I started being concerned when I saw your name under the thread title. You and I are a couple of the Geezers here on the board who have been run through the wringer, and managed to survive.

 

I think I know some of what you are feeling. I know how scarey it is to ponder the "golden years" alone. I also know how frusterating it can be to live in a chaotic situation like you describe.

 

You are a wise man and a good soul. The only advise I dare give is to be careful. When you are making decisions, do some "square breathing" before you share your ideas. Usually when a person is frusterated and under heavy pressure the first impluse is to do something to relieve the pressure, an endorphine rush however short. Try not to make those decisions until you calm a bit.

 

Step softly Crum, softly.

 

...for geezerdom! Quite frankly I think I'd be willing to risk loneliness before I'd agree to many more years of what's been of late.

 

Not to worry. I'll not make any rash decisions and whatever ones I do make will be carefully considered and well thought out.

 

Thanks.

[marlena]

Of course, her Pdoc appointment is the day after tomorrow so maybe that will work some wonders. Something has to. Clearly nothing I've tried works.

 

I certainly hope so Curm, for your sake as well as hers. And I know that feeling of "nothing I do works". One feels so helpless when clearly one is doing everything possible in his/her power but things just go from bad to worse.

 

Try to bear along as best you can. I really want you to enjoy your vacation.

 

Marlena

[polywog]

Oh C,

I just read through this thread and feel for you.... You're such a fave here, and have helped so many of us! Can't emphasize that enough!

 

Anyway, I am wondering, are you being a martyr? A rescuer? These are black and white terms in the grey area of relationships, but... are you?

 

Are you enabling her? Forgive me for asking...

 

But is there something in her behavior that's telling your soul something about yourself? Something that you can embrace and examine? Geez, I feel like I am being patronizing, and I don't mean to be, but I'm doing a lot of soul-searching myself these days, and asking myself the same questions.

 

I've been reading "Care of the Soul" and it's pretty intriguing, but I am a sucker for all that Jungian stuff. That's where some of my questions come from. That, and personal experience, for what it's worth.

 

I'm in the camp that thinks that you and your mate are meant to be, by the way.... in that wacky journey that these relationships take us on.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh C,

I just read through this thread and feel for you.... You're such a fave here, and have helped so many of us! Can't emphasize that enough!

 

Anyway, I am wondering, are you being a martyr? A rescuer? These are black and white terms in the grey area of relationships, but... are you?

 

Are you enabling her? Forgive me for asking...

 

But is there something in her behavior that's telling your soul something about yourself? Something that you can embrace and examine? Geez, I feel like I am being patronizing, and I don't mean to be, but I'm doing a lot of soul-searching myself these days, and asking myself the same questions.

 

I've been reading "Care of the Soul" and it's pretty intriguing, but I am a sucker for all that Jungian stuff. That's where some of my questions come from. That, and personal experience, for what it's worth.

 

I'm in the camp that thinks that you and your mate are meant to be, by the way.... in that wacky journey that these relationships take us on.

 

Being realistic, I have to admit that I AM a rescuer. My mother used to call me Don Quixote because she said I was always tilting at windmills. As a senior manager it certainly makes me a great mentor at work. Perhaps it's not such a good thing in interpersonal relationships.

 

I do NOT see myself as a martyr, however. I do this because I care, perhaps too much at times, not because of anything else.

 

I guess you could say I'm enabling in that I'm not standing in her way when it comes to her behaviors. I won't buy her cigarettes and I won't being alcohol into the home but neither will I "police" what she does. She's a grown woman. She has her own retirement income. She's free to act as well or badly as she chooses, is moved to, wants to or is driven to. I work 40+ hours a week and I'm certainly not going to hire someone to babysit her.

 

As for my soul, I really haven't given it much thought of late, and I don't consider you patronizing. I do know, as do those who know us, that we love one another to the full exent that each of us is capable. But that doesn't necessarily mean we're good for one another, even after all these years. That may be the ultimate and very unfortunate reality.

 

Before I even asked her out for the first time, years before, there were signs and portents that we were meant to be together. Should I have ignored them? I don't think so. Was it all a cruel joke? I don't think that either. But I also don't necessarily believe, at this point in time, that it means we're inextricably bound to one another.

 

I do believe we'll always love one another but again, that doesn't mean we can necessarily remain together.

[polywog]

Geez, C.

 

You hit on all the pistons in that reply. And I got it all, I think, which is a bit scary.

 

The whole thing of whether a mate is a cross to bear, or Not... the option to Opt out. No one's holding a gun to our head (well, most of us).

 

Just had to reply to that profound post.

[Curmudgeon]

Just had to reply to that profound post.

 

Not sure how profound it was, but it did come from within.

 

If you think it's scary for you, how do you think I feel?

[polywog]

Not sure how profound it was, but it did come from within.

 

If you think it's scary for you, how do you think I feel?

 

Well, maybe petrified? But you're so wise, C. that I suspect that this rough patch will turn out well, one way or another.

[Storyrider]

What about if you're meant to be with someone for a while, and then you're not meant to be with them anymore? Not necessarily you and your wife, Curm, but for any couple.

 

Is it possible to be destined to be with someone for only part of your life, but not all of it?