Question About Karma

[OpenBook]

Then again.... maybe thats a thread worth starting? However I won't be the one to start something that will have 99% OW?OM answer....

"Because I want too"

 

For your reading pleasure :D - I started this very same thread just a few weeks ago, titled To the OW's: Why is your MM cheating on his W with you?? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t135899/

 

Whoa, sorry Suny - I reread your question and my thread is actually the REVERSE of what you asked.

[noforgiveness]

No no, I didn't think you were. I was just saying that every OW is in here affair for many different reasons.

 

Mine began as a crush, and then he pursued me, and I was wooed, or however you spell that. I don't know why I'm in it--I don't know why I do half the things i do. I admitted I'm selfish and wrong, but still--do not know why I'm in and haven't really even given much though to why. Well, he makes me happy and gives me a good laugh. I think that's important in Any friendship. He feels comfortable talking to me about his personal problems, whether it be with his family, wifey, or medical problems. I feel honored he can talk to me on the level he does--I'd feel honored if Anyone chose to talk to me of such personal and private matters. He's a great listener, and makes me feel special. I enjoy being around him and his friends are great too--they take good care of me. I kind of feel bad for him--he and I grew up in similar household situations and even now in his 30s, he's still very hurt by the pain he endured growing up. I am a bit too, but I think together we can discuss it and begin to grow out of that pain. It's very much an EA and yes, a bit of the PA too. I don't know--maybe he's my soul mate? I am very confused--I have said that many times too. I am still staying focused though--and away from having intercourse with him. I think if I engage in intercourse with him that it will be difficult when the time comes to end it officially. We have already tried several times ending this affair and both cannot do it. I don't know why--there's obviously strong feelings and a strong connection. I believe that married people are capable of feeling this way about another person--what they have to figure out is if this person is worth going through a divorce for.

 

I wonder how many ow come from dysfuntional families. I really think there is a correlation there.

[OpenBook]

I wonder how many ow come from dysfuntional families. I really think there is a correlation there.

 

And that would be an interesting statistic... as long as you compare it to the same statistic from the other side -- how many MP come from dysfunctional families...

[noforgiveness]

You must be confusing me with someone else. My MM has never said a word against his W, nor is he likely to. He has admitted, when challenged, that certain incidents which I've been told about BY OTHERS did happen as described - incidents of abusive and unreasonable and demeaning behaviour by his W towards him, and sometimes the kids, and certainly others (family, colleagues, friends).

 

LOL you're kidding right. Aren't you the ow whose mm called you after telling his wife it was over and she was wailing in the backgroubnd and that it was pitiful that she tried to make herself look nice because he finds her appearance so distasteful? Aren't you the ow who said his kids would live wth you because she is abusive and they don't like her? Aren't you the ow who went on and on how his family hates her? etc etc etc. Yours was one of the cruelest stories I read on here.

 

Um so did he leave since he already told her he was?

[OpenBook]

and I consider those people animals. Not part of civilized society. Is that the categoy you like to put yourself in?

 

That pimply-faced kid who just shot up the mall and then turned the gun on himself, is an animal? Your assertion is beyond ignorant.

[noforgiveness]

That pimply-faced kid who just shot up the mall and then turned the gun on himself, is an animal? Your assertion is beyond ignorant.

 

No you're right. An animal is too nice of a word for him. An animal does not murder for the pure sport of it and for the notoriaty.

 

Fox news is doing a wonderful job covering it. They actually refuse to say the kids name because he said he was going to be famous for it. They refuse to make his name known. Selfish selfish selfish kid.

[daisydufas22]

Uncalled for, seriously. I am JUST POINTING out an Example. What part of Example do you people NOT comprehend?

 

WOW

 

Yes, I expect an award, heck, an Oscar for being the OW. It's just One big fun ol' act!

 

Get real lady. This ain't no picnic, and most OW / OM will agree.

 

Although you are quite a drama queen, I don't think I would award you an Oscar.

 

We make choices in life and you choose to be the OW...... live with it and stop complaining. If it's so hard, then leave.....pretty simple, huh?

 

Some people don't have choices and just have to live with the consequences ....you have a choice!

 

I read these post and a lot of OWs (I did not say all) trash the W of the MM. What's wrong can you give it but cannot take it?

 

It's my point of view and freedom of speech is permitted.

[Suny1]

If we ALL(not just the OW/OM) stopped complaining...there wouldn't be alot on the boards now would there???

What was that again about *Freedom of Speech?

Geez:eek:

[writeon]

Not sure I agree with that. Clearly that's the case sometimes - stuff happens, and people get swept along, and by the time they get to reflect on it, they're in so deep it's difficult to understand how they got there, seeing as it's not what they'd have chosen rationally to do.

 

But I think that there are other cases where people are acting completely rationally and consistently with their moral framework. But - guess what? We don't all share the same moral framework! As I've stated many times, I don't "believe in" marriage, so to me it's no issue at all whether someone I'm involved with is married or not - that's THEIR issue to resolve in terms of their own views on the matter. But I would never, ever, ever cheat on my tax return. I just think that is plain immoral - that's the money the State uses to build roads and hospitals and schools, to run the country and make it a place we'd want to live in, how could you possibly not pay what you owe on taxes and still consider yourself a decent human being?

 

OWoman, you think through your actions before you do them and you say what you're doing and why. I respect you for that although I don't agree with your "morals." That's what I was trying to ask Gwenyth -- why do something if it's "no picnic" and "not easy"? The answer I got from her was "I don't know why I do what I do." (Sorry to talk about you like you're not here Gwenyth -- just trying to make a point between your posts and OWoman's... you seem to be very confused and she is quite sure of herself in a strong way. I hope I don't offend you by saying that but if I did, I apologize.) But what you're saying, OWoman, is that you know why you do what you do, and you think it's good for you and a good way to live. I would way rather people be like that, even if they do things other people don't necessarily agree with, than "pretend" to be one way and in secret are another way.

 

I am not entirely familiar with your story, but I was wondering, does MM's wife know about you? Because I think it is a good thing to say "this is what I'm doing, and why, and I have no problem with it" and be out in the open about our actions. I just wonder how the wife reacts to that and whether she's still with him despite the fact that he has an OW who is okay being the OW. I'm just curious, not trying to judge.

[Gwyneth]

and I consider those people animals. Not part of civilized society. Is that the categoy you like to put yourself in?

 

Are you seriously going to compare me and OPs and even cheating spouses to people who murder? C'mon! That's just silly.

 

Originally Posted by noforgiveness

I wonder how many ow come from dysfuntional families. I really think there is a correlation there.

 

You are probably right about this, noforgiveness. We are very influenced by our childhood and how we are raised--either for the best or worst. We observe and learn from what we see. No, my parents didn't raise me with the intentions on me being the OW some day...they tried to keep that from me very much. But here I am, the OW, and whether or not my childhood influenced this or not, I really do not know. But that is a really good theory you have there

 

Although you are quite a drama queen, I don't think I would award you an Oscar.

 

We make choices in life and you choose to be the OW...... live with it and stop complaining. If it's so hard, then leave.....pretty simple, huh?

 

Some people don't have choices and just have to live with the consequences ....you have a choice!

 

I read these post and a lot of OWs (I did not say all) trash the W of the MM. What's wrong can you give it but cannot take it?

 

It's my point of view and freedom of speech is permitted.

 

I am a drama Queen! And thank you--lovely compliment from You

 

Who's complaining? I'm not complaining--I'm stating a fact, and that fact is that it is Not easy being the OP.

 

Yes, I have a choice, and I choose to continue my affair with MM.

 

Many BSs trash the OP too, you know. So, your point?

 

Freedom of speech is only permitted if you aren't bashing someone for the choices they make.

[noforgiveness]

Are you seriously going to compare me and OPs and even cheating spouses to people who murder? C'mon! That's just silly.

 

 

I did not make that comparison gwyneth you did. When you spoke of acting before thinking and I stated we live in a civilized society and your response was to go off about murder and such hence you compared your actions to those. I would not have made that comparison. Both morally wrong and extremely harmful but one is much worse.

[Gwyneth]

I did not make that comparison gwyneth you did. When you spoke of acting before thinking and I stated we live in a civilized society and your response was to go off about murder and such hence you compared your actions to those. I would not have made that comparison. Both morally wrong and extremely harmful but one is much worse.

 

Your response to my reply that people do things all the time without thinking it through was:

 

and I consider those people animals. Not part of civilized society.

 

And then you asked:

 

Is that the categoy you like to put yourself in?

 

which made it seem as if you were asking me and other OW if they consider themselves animals.

[daisydufas22]

Are you seriously going to compare me and OPs and even cheating spouses to people who murder? C'mon! That's just silly.

 

Originally Posted by noforgiveness

I wonder how many ow come from dysfuntional families. I really think there is a correlation there.

 

You are probably right about this, noforgiveness. We are very influenced by our childhood and how we are raised--either for the best or worst. We observe and learn from what we see. No, my parents didn't raise me with the intentions on me being the OW some day...they tried to keep that from me very much. But here I am, the OW, and whether or not my childhood influenced this or not, I really do not know. But that is a really good theory you have there

 

 

 

I am a drama Queen! And thank you--lovely compliment from You

 

Who's complaining? I'm not complaining--I'm stating a fact, and that fact is that it is Not easy being the OP.

 

Yes, I have a choice, and I choose to continue my affair with MM.

 

Many BSs trash the OP too, you know. So, your point?

 

Freedom of speech is only permitted if you aren't bashing someone for the choices they make.

 

No problems about the compliment:D

 

My point is I don't understand why some (I said SOME OW) trash the W. SOME (well most IMO) trash their Ws to justify what they are doing.

 

Wasn't bashing you for your choices.....just saying what I think. I mean this whole A seems to be causing you heartache.....no guy is worth that! I get a bit annoyed because I think most OW do not realise they are worth more.

 

It's not easy being the OP? Sounds like a complaint to me! Do you really think this is worth it?

[Gwyneth]

I said it's not easy being the OW to show that it isn't just a fantasy world for the OP--it's a hard task. That's not a complaint--it's a statement. Well, I wasn't complaining--I was stating the fact. I hear many people say "it isn't easy being..." and I do not see that as a complaint.

 

I at least trash the W because hubby has never given me a reason to like her. I only know what I know based on what He has told me. I can only speak for myself--I do not know the other OW's reasons for bashing the W.

 

My point too is that it works both ways--both the OW and the W bash each other. Now I can understand why the W would bash the OW, but it doesn't make some of the assumptions said on this board true about All OW.

[NoIDidn't]

I mean this whole A seems to be causing you heartache.....no guy is worth that! I get a bit annoyed because I think most OW do not realise they are worth more.

 

It's not easy being the OP? Sounds like a complaint to me! Do you really think this is worth it?

 

 

I don't think Gwenyth has heartache as much as headache. LOL.

 

I don't ever recall her posting about her love for him or his for her in any of her posts. Its like, she doesn't expect love to actually ever enter the picture.

 

As far as how easy it is to be the OP. I don't think it was complaint about status so much as a complaint about perception by others.

[NoIDidn't]

I at least trash the W because hubby has never given me a reason to like her. I only know what I know based on what He has told me. I can only speak for myself--I do not know the other OW's reasons for bashing the W.

 

 

Thanks for the honesty. This is one of the reasons why people respond strongly to when someone trashes a person that they have never met and don't even know. Only because someone else said negative things about them is NOT a good reason to speak ill of someone you don't even know.

 

I think it shows a real lack of maturity to allow another to taint your opinion of someone you don't even know enough to bad mouth them yourself with nothing other than what amounts to "gossip". And from a seedy source at that.

 

But at least you are honest that you only really know what he has told you. Of course, he is not going to say that she is a wonderful person or how much he loves his stepchild.

 

What does talking badly about someone you've never met really do for a person anyway?

[White Flower]

why bad karma hit them with a cheating spouse

 

(haha)

Nice one-liner. Karma is not subject to one generation only. This might effend many traditional thinkers, but perhaps it was the BS who cheated on their primary soul mate in a previous life and in this life needed to learn the value of it the hard way?

[NoIDidn't]

Nice one-liner. Karma is not subject to one generation only. This might effend many traditional thinkers, but perhaps it was the BS who cheated on their primary soul mate in a previous life and in this life needed to learn the value of it the hard way?

 

Not so much a non-traditional line of thought. In fact, many religious folks would be the first to ask the betrayed what they did to the WS.

 

For the sake of discussion, I would add to the "generational" line of thought. There are those that feel it could have happened to the BS because of someone in her family doing another like that. Say the BS's mom cheated on her dad and thought nothing of it. Nothing is worse than seeing your own child suffer from something you did in your past and seeing how it really can affect the person that was betrayed.

 

Just for the sake of conversation.

[Gwyneth]

Nice one-liner. Karma is not subject to one generation only. This might effend many traditional thinkers, but perhaps it was the BS who cheated on their primary soul mate in a previous life and in this life needed to learn the value of it the hard way?

 

Interesting theory there, White Flower

 

I don't think Gwenyth has heartache as much as headache. LOL.

 

I don't ever recall her posting about her love for him or his for her in any of her posts. Its like, she doesn't expect love to actually ever enter the picture.

 

As far as how easy it is to be the OP. I don't think it was complaint about status so much as a complaint about perception by others.

 

I have no intentions on falling in love with him. I care for him dearly, but I care about many of the people close to me very dearly. I have mentioned that I think he is falling in love with me, but that's just a thought--I am not sure it's love, but a deep infatuation. I am not aiming on falling in love with each other and living happily ever after. In the beginning of our affair, we discussed the L word and agreed to Not allow this to come to that.

 

True about the complaint thing--I am not complaining about my status, but more or less about how others perceive the roll of the OW.

 

Thanks for the honesty. This is one of the reasons why people respond strongly to when someone trashes a person that they have never met and don't even know. Only because someone else said negative things about them is NOT a good reason to speak ill of someone you don't even know.

 

I think it shows a real lack of maturity to allow another to taint your opinion of someone you don't even know enough to bad mouth them yourself with nothing other than what amounts to "gossip". And from a seedy source at that.

 

But at least you are honest that you only really know what he has told you. Of course, he is not going to say that she is a wonderful person or how much he loves his stepchild.

 

What does talking badly about someone you've never met really do for a person anyway?

 

I have mentioned this before, and of course I don't expect you to remember, but I have said that if I knew her, this would be a totally different scenario. Right now she's fictional to me--just a woman in his life. Yes, his wife, but I don't know her or what she looks like other than a photo of her and her breathing in my ear the night she rang me five times.

 

I don't want to discuss his step child though or his love for the kid. I don't doubt his love for that child--most people love children. He's just a child and I don't feel it's fair to discuss him and his relationship with step-dad.

[OpenBook]

Thanks for the honesty. This is one of the reasons why people respond strongly to when someone trashes a person that they have never met and don't even know. Only because someone else said negative things about them is NOT a good reason to speak ill of someone you don't even know.

 

I think it shows a real lack of maturity to allow another to taint your opinion of someone you don't even know enough to bad mouth them yourself with nothing other than what amounts to "gossip". And from a seedy source at that.

 

But at least you are honest that you only really know what he has told you. Of course, he is not going to say that she is a wonderful person or how much he loves his stepchild.

 

What does talking badly about someone you've never met really do for a person anyway?

 

"Someone else"?? A "seedy source"?? You're referring here to the person who happens to be their HUSBAND - whom they know VERY well - who is talking badly about them. I think that's 10 times more horrible!!

[Gwyneth]

"Someone else"?? A "seedy source"?? You're referring here to the person who happens to be their HUSBAND - whom they know VERY well - who is talking badly about them. I think that's 10 times more horrible!!

 

How well do you know someone after 2 1/2 years? Hardly enough--especially hardly enough to marry them after four or five months of dating.

 

If my child told me they were going to marry a man after four months of dating during their fifth month of dating and knowing each other, I think I'd be a bit annoyed at my child.

 

Anyway...I can only speak for my situation, but this W knows very well her husband is Not faithful, so she is only further hurting herself by staying with him. Instead of going through the same game time after time, you would think she would just leave him, but no. I am pretty sure it's because she's financially secure with him--and that makes me mad. Again, this is based on what he has told me, and if I knew her side of the story, my perceptions would most likely be different for the better or worse.

[whichwayisup]

Nice one-liner. Karma is not subject to one generation only. This might effend many traditional thinkers, but perhaps it was the BS who cheated on their primary soul mate in a previous life and in this life needed to learn the value of it the hard way?

And what did the kids do to deserve an unstable upbringing? Cry too much as a baby and have colic every night?

[Gwyneth]

I don't think karma is toying with the children directly, but indirectly. In the end, the kids are usually fine. It's unfortunate, but in life we have to expect horrible things to occur.

[NoIDidn't]

"Someone else"?? A "seedy source"?? You're referring here to the person who happens to be their HUSBAND - whom they know VERY well - who is talking badly about them. I think that's 10 times more horrible!!

 

 

OB I think you are taking my words out of context.

 

In the case of the "someone else", I am saying I wouldn't take the only the word of someone else over the actual knowledge of the person of whom they speak. I wasn't talking about the context of the A, at that moment.

 

And yes, "seedy source". The man is cheating on his W and saying bad things about her. I would consider my source.

 

I am not saying that he is lying. I am simply saying, I would consider my source as in, take every negative word he says about his household with a proverbial "grain of salt".

 

I am not talking about the feelings of the person being spoken ill about. I am simply saying to take into consideration the possible motives of the person saying the stuff.

 

I would certainly not jump on that bandwagon and then feel foolish to find out the person's word that I was taking wasn't exactly truthful.

[NoIDidn't]

I have mentioned this before, and of course I don't expect you to remember, but I have said that if I knew her, this would be a totally different scenario.

 

 

I don't understand your reasoning.

 

Why is it okay to bad mouth someone that you don't even know? Especially based on the word of the person you know to be betraying them?

 

Of course it would be a different scenario if you knew her. I just don't understand the logic that its okay to bad mouth her now because you don't know her. That just confuses me.