Has he or hasn't he ... changed?

[idzzy]

[color=blue]Hello to all. My first time here. I'm not too sure if this is the location I should post my "dilemma"? If it isn't the place, please state so .. Well, here goes ..

 

I left my marriage after 7 months due to my now "ex" husband's arrogant, manipulative, controlling, selfish, uncompassionate, inflexible behavior. Along with this behavior there was much mental and emotional abuse.

 

There were also many conflicts between us due to his behavior with his daughter[MY first marriage, his second].

 

I was forever discussing with him my feelings, etc. and he just brushed them away. His attitude was always, "his way or the highway" ..

 

I kept giving myself time and time. Hoping that something might change. I'd say to myself, "this IS the first year, it is always the hardest. But yet, I didn't see me in this marriage within the year.

 

So before my self esteem be crushed, I decided to leave HIM; or marriage.

 

The divorce became final April 3rd, 2003, 5 months after I left him.

 

A month ago, he comes around asking for forgiveness, for second chance. He wanted us to meet up, to discuss "what happened" to the marriage. I agreed, since I too wanted to hear answers to my daunting questions. One question, why now? Why are you calling me 7 months after I left you. A month after our divorce???

His response: He was too PROUD to call me. Hey, I LEFT him, so why SHOULD he call ME??? Hell with me!

 

We were discussing this matter for over 2 hours, he crying, I crying. I told him I have forgiven him. But I haven't forgotten what he made me go through in that marriage. I don't trust him anymore.

 

He says he's changed. He has realized his mistakes. He realizes he lost a great thing when I left him. He wants us to have a second chance. I told him that when I left that marriage, it was for good. I wasn't expecting to return. Due to his arrogance, his "machoism", his pride, I WAS NOT EXPECTING HIM TO EVER CALL ME!

 

I do have feelings for him. But I am NOT in love with him anymore.

 

He's been sending me cards, love letters, flowers, calling me. In our discussion I told him to move on .. leave this in God's will. IF we're meant to be together AGAIN, it will happen.

 

But I just can't see me going back to him. Just by him saying "he's changed", doesn't constitute the truth. He promised me lots of things before we married and nothing materialized.

 

Anyways, my common sense says , "are you CRAZY" to return to this guy after ALL you've gone thru??" my heart says, who am I to judge him? Maybe HE has changed?

 

Soooooooo, any or ALL comments, inputs, advise, etc., etc. is much appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you soon

 

Thanks[/color]

[NEONINK]

Talk about a day late and a dollar short...

 

I think only you can decide what you want. But, I think you deserve kudos for standing up for yourself. I do wonder what caused this revelation within him? Counseling? Failure to move on? Bad blind dates?

 

In NC, it takes a whole year of separation to finalize a divorce, perhaps that is a good thing afterall.

[Tony T]

Your ex husband has very serious issues with intimacy. His behavior during your marriage were clear strategies for keeping a major wedge between the two of you. Now that you're gone, he longs for someone. But if you got back together, I promise you it would be the same heartache.

 

He needs help...from a very highly competent psychotherapist who can work with him for several years. Meanwhile, you're best served by going your way and finding someone who is more stable, more mentally healthy and more capable of conducting a proper romantic relationship.

 

Pay more attention next time and look for tale tale signs of trouble. My guess is that you knew before you got married that this would never, ever work. Why women marry men they think they can change is the only question I would like answered sometime before I die.

[quankanne]

Why women marry men they think they can change is the only question I would like answered sometime before I die

 

because hope springs eternal when we love somebody. Then reality comes in and bites us on the •ss when we see we can't make him change, that has to come from inside him.

 

Idzzy, you made a very brave (and wise) move to end your marriage as quickly as you did. Love has less to do with staying in a marriage than self- and mutual respect do. You can still care for someone without placing yourself smack in the middle of his path to self-destruction ...

 

I read horror stories on this board from women who suspect something's "not right" but stay in an abusive relationship because they feel guilty for leaving or for bailing out on someone who "loves" them. Before you can truly give yourself to someone (i.e. love them), you must first love yourself. Just thank the heavens above that you had the strength to get out of your abusive relationship as quickly as you did.

 

A relative of mine went through a troubled marriage, and put up with a lot of crap during her separation from her husband, who STILL harasses her even though they're now divorced. But, in a recent letter, she told admitted that the few years they were married had been mentally and emotionally exhausting, and that now she finally feels like a "real, genuine person" again. Nobody should have to go through that, and when an abuser starts telling his victim that he's changed, that person should avoid him at all costs. Like I say, it's one thing to care about someone, but whole other thing to allow them to harm you to so that you can "prove" your love to him (or her).

[flower]

The heart rules over the mind when women fall in love and logical thinking somehow fail and they hold false hopes in that their "chosen one" will change for them out of love. Some have to go through relationship after relationship to realise this folly but some live with it after they married. But take heart, it works both ways, though more pronounced in men!

[idzzy]

Thanks for ALL your replies. It is great to hear reenforcement from others.

 

It is very hard when you have both "common sense" and "the heart" screaming at you. But whenever the "heart" starts screaming, I mentally review all that occured during those 7 months and then I quickly smoother those screams with reality.

 

As for "expecting change" when I married him, I am one that believes that you CAN NOT change anyone, unless that person wants to change.

 

See, when we were dating none of these "characteristics" were present at all. IF they were, then I guess I can blame it on "love". It blinds you at times. Well, I guess it surely blinded me!! I guess I didn't pick up on those "hints" beforehand. IF I would, I don't think I'd be marrying this man. Then again, may be so ...

 

As for his changed ways ..? No, no therapy on his part. During the marriage, we did discuss but only once about therapy/counceling. We thought of going to speak with his pastor. He was going for the idea but then quickly changed his mind against it. He believed the pastor had too much on his mind to be able to councel us! I think it was because he didn't want the pastor to know OUR problems. Also, maybe the pastor would prove HIM wrong!

He is one to NOT BELIEVE in therapy; counceling. He's always told me this from the very beginning of our relationship.

 

So, his revelation? GOD. He is a "born again" Christian [baptist]. Through prayers he reached his decision, to contact me again. He, in that time, analyzed the situation and came to the conclusion that he needed me BACK in his life! I am not ONE to question GOD'S will but I don't see it in this case. He did ask me if I do not believe in MIRACLES. I answered YES, but I don't see it in your case ..

 

See, deep down inside of me, I am certain he hasn't changed; he couldn't change .. those "characteristics" , in my opinion, are ingrained in him. He was born with them and most likely in his home, it was reenforced.

 

There is much more details that I can give you about our marriage. I would like to but there is soooooo much sooo much to tell ...! But, I'll give you an example, we lived with his mother. Though we never got to go on a honeymoon, IF we would of gone to where we were planning to go, Mexico, it would OF been with my mother-in-law!!!! Yes, because he didn't want to leave her alone. Now mind you, this woman does have another son. She could of stayed with him. I suggested a honeymoon closer to home [so that we can leave her @ home .. ALONE!] but at the end, he was laid off from work and so, no honeymoon! THANK GOD! I suggested for us to take off for a weekend ALONE ...his response .. "I won't leave my daughter"! I answer, "She HAS her mother, for God sake"! The answer still stood at 'NO'! Mind you, the daughter lives with her mom. She goes over on weekends, holidays, vacation. OR whenever "mom" has her dates, etc.

 

I look forward to more inputs, etc.

 

Thanks again to all.

[midori]

It sounds like you made the right choice in divorcing him. I think you would be wise to limit the amount of interaction you have with him. Just because he sends you letters doesn't mean you have to reply. You don't even have to read them.

 

As for women believing that they can change men, speaking as someone who has made that mistake in the past I will say that not only can you not change someone who doesn't want to change himself, you cannot change someone even if he wants to change. YOU can't change HIM. HE has to change HIMSELF. If your participation is required, it isn't a genuine transformation.

 

If he's serious about changing himself, and if he has fully and truly realized the extent of his prior mistakes, then he will accept reality by leaving you alone, and he will move forward with some important lessons learned so that next time he won't mess things up so badly. The fact that he's badgering you like this, after all he put you through, suggests to me that he DOESN'T really have a sense of how awful he was. Sounds like blind panic to me, someone who really doesn't want to deal with change and is willing to mouth whatever it takes to bring back the status quo. Mouthing change and undertaking change are two very different things.

 

The fact that he hasn't marched himself into counseling says a lot.

[EnigmaXOXO]

See, when we were dating none of these "characteristics" were present at all.

 

Idzzy, you are so right!

 

Sometimes you have to be with someone 24/7 and actually LIVE with them for a while before you really know them --- And yourself!

 

And sometimes those little idiosyncrasies that were tolerable in the beginning due to the euphoria of "love", become a MAJOR annoyance as time progresses and you come out of you P.E.A. fog.

 

I'm sure some people will strongly disagree, but I think its a good idea to actually co-habitate with someone for a while before taking that next step to marriage.

 

As for me, I'm doing things differently this time. And I'm sure you will be too!!

[Tony T]

Enigma WRITES: "...I think its a good idea to actually co-habitate with someone for a while before taking that next step to marriage."

 

That helps some but people still know they've got to put on an act if they want things to last. Most grubby little turkeys know they have to maintain the act until after marriage when they know it's just a bit more emotionally and financially costly to end it.

 

I think it's a nice idea in principle but I wouldn't want to leave the impression that you get to learn much more about people by living together than from what direction they squeeze the tube of toothpaste and you can find that out by snooping around.

 

Morning breath is my real peeve. If a woman looks over at me asking to make love in the morning and just about killing me with her odorous oral expulsions....that's enough to end romance right there. She has only one minute to brush her teeth, floss and use mouthwash or it's all over.

 

You just never know somebody until you've lived with him or her for, oh, 10 years or so...and by that time they start changing to something else so you've got to start all over again!!!

[EnigmaXOXO]

So True!

 

Which is why my partner and I plan on living together for at least 10 years before tying the knot. Only three down and six more to go.

 

No one can maintain an act for THAT long!

 

Personal pet peeve: Demonic snoring and nocturnal flatulence. Haven't met a man yet who hasn't succeeded in running me out of the bedroom.

[Tony T]

"Demonic snoring and nocturnal flatulence."

 

If there are appliances you can get from a dentist to minimize snoring, I would think there would be things a guy could apply over his butthole to reduce nose from nocturnal farting, oh sorry...flatulence, and to filter the odorous emissions so they wouldn't run you out of the bedroom.

 

If the farting is a serious problem, I would think you could get the Environmental Protection Commission involved since flatulence is certainly a contributor to global warming...and stinking.

[idzzy]

EnigmaXOXO,

 

I too lived with my "ex", at first during the weekends, maybe 8 months into our relationship. Then 2 months before the wedding, it was full time. Still I saw nothing that would warn me of what this man can turn into .. !

 

I think that as many years as you can live with someone, either being a lover, sister, mother, friend, you will never get to know a person 100%.

 

I truly believe that a human being is very complex and for some they are very easy to "read" and for other's they hide so good in their shells that you'll get to know them and about them whenever they want you to ..

 

I fell in love with a man totally different than what I left 7 months into our marriage.

[Kat]

I was in an abusive relationship. Only time I ever got a flower was when I had left himand hewas trying to win me back. Only time he treated be like a princess was when I was threatening to leave him (or if I already had)

 

I can't find it anywhere, but there is a 'wheel of domestic violence' and it shows the stages of domestic violence.

 

In short Explode - apologise - tension - explode - apologise - tension - explode...............