What does Spirituality mean to you?

[sb129]

I'm sorry you feel so defensive. I completely appreciate you are stating your opinion, and of course, it is your absolute right to do so. But if you are stating your opinion, I was responding with fact. I responded without attack or recrimination.

I feel 'Spiritual' is not an accurate description of what you describe, given that spirituality is very much defined generally as being an enlightening or illuminating, 'growing' experience. Maybe we could agree to define it differently? What other term might you apply, in this case?

 

I am not in the slightest bit offended, and whilst I might not agree with what you say or do, it is your complete priviledge and right, as a sentient being, to make your own decisions about everything you think, say and do....

But I'm also aware of us having to accept the consequences thereof....

However, I am extremely pleased that, as you highlighted in your subsequent post, your previous depression issues are a thing of the past and that you celebrate your recovery.

I do likewise, and wish you well. Always and continually.

 

Thank you. Thought I was getting a telling off for something I already stopped doing, and reverted back to my child state.

 

At the time, it did feel extremely spiritual, and I am sure many other past and present drug users would agree that the feeling is very real.

 

But you are right, it is fake, and bad for you, and I am glad that its not a part of my life anymore. I used the evangelist example, because IMHO, that is fake too, especially seeing as I don't believe in God. I DO believe in spirituality I think though, especially the way you defined it above Geisha.

 

I would say that I have been enlightened along my journey through life over the last few years, but I am not sure that that could be defined as spiritual?

 

Something in me has reached peace though, and I definitely have a better sense of self.

[Moai]

The first time I ever did LSD I thought it was the most intense spiritual experience ever. Not only were the colors incredible, the sense of well-being is without equal. I had so many insightful thoughts, when I returned home I spent the remainder of the evening writing them all down so I'd be sure to remember them.

 

When I woke up, I grabbed my notebook to refresh my memory with the staggering insights I had the night before.

 

And it was all crap. It was without doubt the most nonsensical bunch of crap that I had ever written down. I realized then that while on the effects of LSD nothing that you think, no matter how intense at the time, means anything.

 

That said, the men who discovered DNA were experimenting with low-dose LSD when they discovered it, but they weren't on the "high" dosage.

 

I think that most "spiritual" ancient books were written by schizophrenics. At the time of writing, nobody was in a position to doubt or understand what was really going on. That would explain why there haven't been any "new" holy books. Even the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants are supposed to be ancient, just recently translated. And look how many people believe that crap is true. You can fool some of the people....

[LaughMachine]

Spirituality..living under the belief that physical properties hold only temporary purpose.

[lonelybird]

I had the feeling of emptyness before I know God, I tried alcohol in my 20's, and got drunk one time, hated that feeling, alcohol only gave me headache, temporary lack of concentration, and desperation. But thank God, he let me know that there is another way to life, I can have hope in God, hope in justice, hope in love and hope in all good things that the world cannot give me. since then I am quite thrilled by walking with God.

 

Spirituality maybe meant different things to different people. One of my understanding is that spirituality means walking in SPIRIT rather than walking in FLESH. Bible teaches us SPIRIT produce love, kindness, patience, endurance, hope, faith, peace....but FLESH produce strife, jealous, unforgiveness......so if a person constantly walk in SPIRIT, then he or her is spiritual.

 

How do people walk in SPIRIT? I guess "obey HOLY SPIRIT, obey God, and love God". many people may not agree with this. Here is the reason I can think of. Every one of human has LIMITATION. If without a higher power as a guidance, human easily make mistakes. because they born of FLESH, every motive is to serve self. many people speak hurtful words to others, and even don't know it or even don't bother themselves to care, this is flesh working, they don't check themselves, and think they are always the right one

 

Maybe everyone has the moment to be spiritual (I am thinking maybe Holy Spirit visit some unbelievers from time to time according to God's purpose), and believers have to choose to walk in SPIRIT or FLESH, it is everyday every moment choices. sometimes will face choosing between own benefit (flesh-- same time will offend God and hurt others) and obey God (give up own selfish purpose). It is difficult sometimes, but the more training, the more it will get easier.

 

There is a fine line between having faith and not having faith when facing difficulties. when things look tougher, you will have to choose to believe or not. if you continue to believe, you will see how God works, will see his supernatual power change things, will see prayers get answered, peace always be with you. If you choose not to believe because of tough situation, the situation will get darker and darker, heart will get harder and harder

 

Faith can change circumstances that around us. It is like a beacon on a very dark stormy sea, you know where you will go, you know what purpose you are for.

[lonelybird]

Did you ever read novel echoes? the girl's attitude toward hardship in that novel moved me greatly. no matter what she faced, she continued to believe in God, she has a life full of miracles, she IS quite spiritual. when she faces every tough situation, she didn't ask God "why do you put me in this?", rather she asked "what God wants me to do in this situation, can I be useful to God in this situation?"

[Geishawhelk]

Thank you. Thought I was getting a telling off for something I already stopped doing, and reverted back to my child state.:o

 

No, no, no.... I'm a mama, and believe me, if iIgive you a telling off, you'll know it - we mamas are a particularly strident bunch - speshully us Italian mamas!!

Child state is good, sometimes.... we should all do it more often....!

 

Something in me has reached peace though, and I definitely have a better sense of self.

 

This is a lovely, lovely thing to read, and I read it over a couple of times, because it's such a joyful thing to 'hear' in this day and age!

 

There is 'Spirituality' to be found in gazing at a full moon, or rising to the top of a hill, and seeing the remakable view beyond, for the first time.... I have personally experienced 'spirituality' watching a child play, unconscious of everything around it, singing quietly to itself and concentrating on just precisely what it is doing....

 

If I may be permitted to try to define these moments, to better clarify why I personally find them spiritual, they are all capable of erasing any thought from the mind, and leaving it silent and appreciative of an instant of wonder.... A full moon in an 'empty' sky, makes me gaze in delight at how breathtakingly illuminating reflected light is.... then I begin to analyse the state, and try to get my poor incapable mind around the fact that this solar system, within a galaxy, is cradled in a timeless, endless universe, with no end 'that' way, and consequently, no 'beginning' the other way.... as far as we know....

 

The sight at the top of the hill is the appreciation of something unexpected, and this too, can clear the mind wonderfully of the ceaseless, rambling chatter of largely intrusive and unnecessary thoughts....

And who can fail to marvel at the delightfully engaging innocence of a blissfully happy child in that instant, that transitory, brief and impermanent moment? It has not a care in the world, not a worry, not a concern, save to enjoy and be completely engrossed in what it is playing at, there and then....

 

This, to me, is 'Spirituality'. That wondrous instant when all thought disappears, and I find myself with an Empty Mind, really, truly living in This Blissful Moment, and nowhere else.

Because quite frankly, there IS nowhere else To be. There is nowhere else, in fact, that I CAN be......

[Trialbyfire]

Spirituality is the feeling of being connected to something far more meaningful, than daily concerns such as food on the table and a roof over your head. It has a life of it's own, in that spirituality is beautiful, peaceful and inspiring.

 

There are places on this earth that are spiritual, more connected to a greater reality. Spend time in these places, sit with no thoughts except the experience, and you will understand.

 

I love the feeling when I sit in one of these special places. There's a river that flows gently, about a mile across. The smell of sagebrush, water, the perfume from wildflowers, the sheer cliffs and the birdlife, all make you realize how small and meaningless you and the stresses of your life are, compared to how eternal all this is. The river keeps flowing.

[Geishawhelk]

.....sit with no thoughts except the experience, and you will understand.

 

My point exactly, yes, thank you!

 

The river keeps flowing.

...And it's never the same river twice....

[RoseRen]

I had the feeling of emptyness before I know God, I tried alcohol in my 20's, and got drunk one time, hated that feeling, alcohol only gave me headache, temporary lack of concentration, and desperation. But thank God, he let me know that there is another way to life, I can have hope in God, hope in justice, hope in love and hope in all good things that the world cannot give me. since then I am quite thrilled by walking with God.

 

Our thoughts on Emptyness and getting drunk seems to match 100%.

 

I was a believer - may be not a good one - because once cancer struck me, I started feeling empty. And now I cannot put myself in the believer category.

 

I would love to read the novel [Echoes] you mentioned. Do you know the author's name?

[sb129]

Geisha and TBF- they were lovely posts, and I couldn't agree more.

This is a lovely, lovely thing to read, and I read it over a couple of times, because it's such a joyful thing to 'hear' in this day and age!

 

Thank you! I can't even tell you exactly how or why, but I don't need to know all the answers. I like who am am, I like where I am at, and I love who I am with. I don't have the most exciting life, I don't have a large amount of money, and I am not the most gorgeous woman in the world.

But I can appreciate the lovely things in life, and I have some wonderful relationships.

I feel really lucky.

 

as you said, when all thought disappears, it can be an enlightening state, and I find i think and analyse things (in a negative way) much much less than I used.

[RoseRen]

Geisha and TrialbyFire - your posts are so poetical. I just can't wait to have such experiences.

 

There are places on this earth that are spiritual, more connected to a greater reality. Spend time in these places, sit with no thoughts except the experience, and you will understand.

 

Any further suggestions on these special places? And after you have had this experience and comeback home what do you feel?

 

I had my Reiki y'day and I thought it was like one of the other Complimentary therapies (e.g. Reflexology and hopi ear candles). It did make me feel relaxed and put me off to a light sleep. But the feeling is temporary. Once I woke up and got back home, I felt a bit drowsy, but nothing more. I am booking myself up with another person to see if it makes any difference.

 

During my exploration of Spirituality, I read about two types of spirituality - Translational (helping us to translate, understand, and "feel good" about ourselves and our lives) and Transformational (helping us to move toward ever higher levels of development). Any thoughts on this? (Ref: http://www.wie.org/j12/wilber.asp)

 

Also, is there anyone who has practiced meditation? If so, are you relgious as well? Do you think meditation and religion is linked?

[sb129]

I think that meditation and religion can be linked, but they don't have to be.

 

Rose, I think you would benefit greatly from joining a group - not necessarily a religious group, but I know there are groups out there for meditation, and other various areas involved with spirituality.

 

You may need to try a few different ones before you find one that suits you, but it could be something to help keep your mind off your H, and also a great way foryou to meet other people who share an interest with you in exploring their spiritual side.

[Trialbyfire]

Thanks Geisha, sb and Rose. I wish I had better words to conceptualize all that it means to me. What I've written is very two-dimensional, instead of the true panoply of spirituality.

 

You can't touch or taste it but there's no doubt you can experience it. When you're receptive to it, all emotional and intellectual ports wide-open, it fills you and overflows.

 

Gaahhhh...words are so trite.

 

Any further suggestions on these special places? And after you have had this experience and comeback home what do you feel?

I hold the experience inside of me and once in awhile, bring it out to reground. It's also worthwhile to revisit, to reconnect.

 

Not much different than someone else going to Church and finding comfort in organized religion, which isn't for me, even though I grew up with it. Not enough wide open space and acceptance of what is, how little you matter, combined with the need to self-flagellate. I see organized religion as more self-centered, with a reward system. "If I do this, I am good." Spirituality isn't about being bad or good, it just is.

 

I had my Reiki y'day and I thought it was like one of the other Complimentary therapies (e.g. Reflexology and hopi ear candles). It did make me feel relaxed and put me off to a light sleep. But the feeling is temporary. Once I woke up and got back home, I felt a bit drowsy, but nothing more. I am booking myself up with another person to see if it makes any difference.

My ex-SIL took Reiki. I don't know much about it beyond a drawing of energy from around and within you. While I'm a great believer of mind over matter, I'm not certain about Reiki. I've had a Reiki session and as the receptor, I think it's more internalized reactions v. externalized input.

 

Also, is there anyone who has practiced meditation? If so, are you relgious as well? Do you think meditation and religion is linked?

I do yoga but can't for the life of me, meditate. Sad to say but it makes me giggle. Par for the course, for a ten year-old...

 

As for a connection between religion and meditation, the two aren't synonymous, although the two can be interwoven and practiced concurrently.

[lonelybird]

Our thoughts on Emptyness and getting drunk seems to match 100%.

 

I was a believer - may be not a good one - because once cancer struck me, I started feeling empty. And now I cannot put myself in the believer category.

 

I would love to read the novel [Echoes] you mentioned. Do you know the author's name?

RoseRen

 

every believer has a process of growing, through high and low. my previous post about 'scream and kick', that's me

 

The author of this book is Danielle Steel, she has a website: her novel encouraged me and put me into a good perspective, same time her novel is quite romantic www.daniellesteel.com

 

I remember I saw some testomies about Holy Spirit healed disease, even some very difficult ones, some miracles, quite amazing

 

I feel like when we face tough times, it is the time we cling to God more tightly, remember the storm on the sea? if we put focus and faith on Lord, we are going to be fine. do we meet storms in life? YES, but we are going to win them. here I find out a healing verses

 

ISAIAH

53: 1 (*)The people reply, "Who would have believed what we now report? Who could have seen the LORD's hand in this?

53:2 It was the will of the LORD that his servant grow like a plant taking root in dry ground. He had no dignity or beauty to make us take notice of him. There was nothing attractive about him, nothing that would draw us to him.

53:3 We despised him and rejected him; he endured suffering and pain. No one would even look at him- we ignored him as if he were nothing.

53:4 (*)"Surely he has borne our infirmities, and carried our diseases. All the while we thought that his suffering was punishment sent by God.

53:5 (*)But because of our sins he was wounded, beaten because of the evil we did. We are healed by the punishment he suffered, made whole by the blows he received.

 

Have you had church folks and friends pray for you for healing? prayer works, I saw them works:) please begin to agree with Lord, not agree with dark force.

 

Best wishes, and I will pray for you

[Geishawhelk]

Thanks Geisha, sb and Rose. I wish I had better words to conceptualize all that it means to me. What I've written is very two-dimensional, instead of the true panoply of spirituality.

 

You can't touch or taste it but there's no doubt you can experience it. When you're receptive to it, all emotional and intellectual ports wide-open, it fills you and overflows.

 

Gaahhhh...words are so trite.

 

You're absolutely right, they are...but here and now, particularly, they are all we have, and I think you have summed it up perfectly.

 

 

I do yoga but can't for the life of me, meditate. Sad to say but it makes me giggle. Par for the course, for a ten year-old...

 

If I may be so bold, it may well be that the type of meditation you have practise is too 'conformist' and pre-conceived.... maybe you just need a different kind...

 

I apologise for repeating myself, but I know i have posted this before, in a longer form...

 

Meditation, as I have seen it marvellously defined, is merely 'Bringing the Mind Home.'.

The aim is simple: To still the constant, burbling, aimless, intrusive chatter of random thoughts, and to train the mind, through practise, to do what we want it to do, rather than be under its control.

If for one moment, you think that you are in control of your own Mind, and find what I say incorrect, then just try stopping thinking altogether, for more than a minute.

At the start, I think you'll agree this is impossible!

This then, denotes that 'Our Mind is running away with us'.

It should be the other way round.

Meditation does not have to be done sitting in a Lotus, or half-lotus position, in a roomful of people all quietly humming under their breath, incense filling the room, tinkling bell-music resonating in the background….

Although to some, this is the ideal…..

You can practise meditation walking round the park, sitting in a traffic jam, or looking out of your window….

 

For the two former ones, just look at everything around you. Watch people walking their dogs, birds flying or feeding, children playing, people strolling….or sitting in traffic, look at the crowds on the pavements (sidewalks, to our USian friends), the other drivers in their cars, the changing of the traffic lights, the bustle of he town….

 

But do all of the above with no running commentary….

 

Don’t think, “Oh, look at that lady with that kid, in the blue shoes”…. Just look at the lady with that kid, in the blue shoes. Don’t have word going through your head. Just see, without running thoughts.

‘Listen’ with your eyes, as the song suggests.

Do this with everything around you (and when the lights change to green, move with the traffic, but don’t think, “Oh good, the lights have gone green”…Just move….)

 

If you’d prefer to sit silently, without any kind of outside influence, then just find a comfortable position, and literally, watch your thinking. Breathe in and out, and focus on seeing how your body is reacting to your breathing…but again, try to still the commentary….. then, every time you have a thought drifting in, just notice it’s there, and let it go….. Don’t berate yourself, or get frustrated…after all, your Mind IS a thinking tool…it’s MEANT to be thinking, so bringing it under control is a challenge, it’s bound to be.

 

And it doesn’t have to take hours. Just practising for a few moments a day, and increasing gradually, is better than forcing yourself to sit for prolonged periods.

It shouldn’t be a chore, or an ordeal. Quality, not quantity.

Meditation is there to help you, and not to become a trial by sitting!

 

And as other have rightly say, it’s not necessarily Religious. It’s whatever you want it to be.

[Trialbyfire]

Thanks Geish. In some ways, I already do what you recommended for meditation, although not for long. I like your idea of letting the thoughts go, rather than getting wound up about it.

 

If you think of the spiritual place I was describing, this is what I automatically do, when I'm there. I guess when I'm home, I allow too much of daily city life to wind me up, thoughts constantly bouncing around.

 

Remind me to change my screen name to trialbysitting, if it works. I never sit still so surviving this, would be the ultimate proof that I am innocent.

[Geishawhelk]

Thanks Geish.

Hey, no problem! What are pals for - ?

 

I guess when I'm home, I allow too much of daily city life to wind me up, thoughts constantly bouncing around.

 

This is a very good point.

 

We tend to 'separate' aspects of our lives, by labelling them as periods, states or episodes. "Now I am working at my job, so I'm a *enter profession*....Now I am listening to my teacher, so I'm a student.... Now I'm at home eating my tea, so I'm a family member... now I'm driving to wherever, so I'm a motorist...."

 

The (eventual) trick, is to fuse all these things together, and to not lose sight of our Mindfulness.... All the above states are valid, but they are not our identity. The're labels, but they're not Who We Are.... They're what we Do...They serve to distinguish us one from the other... we can 'be' all things at once, yet we are still not those things....

 

Sit somewhere busy and 'isolate' yourself from it all. "Look" at yourself as an individual energy, thriving and melding with everything around you, yet separate, and uniquely powerful in your own right. look at the Essence of who - or what - you are, and notice how you effortlessly mix with everything around you and are a part of it, yet you can - at one and the same time - rise above it and observe it as a nameless, vibrant energy.

 

Then do it all the time. (woohoo!! easy-peasy - NOT!! )

 

Remind me to change my screen name to trialbysitting, if it works. I never sit still so surviving this, would be the ultimate proof that I am innocent.

 

It is done!!

[Trialbyfire]

It is done!!

Hilarious.