white lies or just lies

[noturtypicalwife]

Do you think there is a difference? I seriously wonder if it at all occurs to the person doing the lying that a lie is a lie in my book. Wether it's a I didn't tell you because...or you just came across the information yourself, or if it was an intentional blatant lie. It's all the same to me, it hurts the same...what do you think is there a difference, do people overreact to so called white lies?

[noturtypicalwife]

I know I ask a lot of questions and to those of you who are annoyed by this I am sorry. I just don't know who else to ask this stuff to, I don't trust a lot of people, but I have faith that the people that are here are here for a reason because they are all looking for answers like me, or sharing their experiences to hopefully spare someone else the same mistake or heartache. I am a rambler and sometimes I go way @ the question or answer but please reply someone. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[sb129]

I don't know, a lie is a lie to me, but I can understand some are kinder than others.

I am not that good at lying.

 

Depends on what its about.

 

Eg- telling a six year old that Santa is real is acceptable

- lying about an affair isn't.

 

Very wide spectrum....

[Moose]

A lie is a lie, doesn't matter if it's black or white. It's a lot easier to sleep at night that way, and you don't have to remember all the lies you've told.

telling a six year old that Santa is real is acceptable

IMO, no it's not. But telling a six year the true story of St. Nicholas is acceptable.

Very wide spectrum....

Shouldn't be really.

[marlena]

Not all lies are the same. There are three broad categories: the bad lies, the good lies and the innocuous lies . The first are are hurtful, spiteful, malicious and selfish lies. These are lies that are meant to cause damage through deliberate intent. These are the most deceitful.

 

The good lies are the merciful ones. Sometimes, people lie out of love and a desire to protect the ones they love.

 

Then there are harmless lies like telling kids about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

[sb129]

Not all lies are the same. There are three broad categories: the bad lies, the good lies and the innocuous lies . The first are are hurtful, spiteful, malicious and selfish lies. These are lies that are meant to cause damage through deliberate intent. These are the most deceitful.

 

The good lies are the merciful ones. Sometimes, people lie out of love and a desire to protect the ones they love.

 

Then there are harmless lies like telling kids about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

 

Oh but the Tooth Fairy is real.... I know her personally..

 

I agree with you Marlena. there IS a wide spectrum of the kinds of lies, and it isn't as black and white, as the Righteous Brigade of Right and Wrong would like to think.

 

Really Moose did you have to be QUITE so condescending and dismissive of something as harmless as Santa Claus?

 

I was using it as a simple example. I COULD have used God as an example, but I didn't out of respect for those who believe.

 

If you don't want to tell your kids about Santa Claus, thats absolutely fine. The LAST thing I want to get into is a discussion about the meaning of christmas, and Santa Claus vs St. Nicholas (whether its a true story or not is debatable anyway, you have no proof that it is), and we all know how inconsistent these "stories" can be.

 

I will be telling my children about Santa Claus when they are little. Didn't do me any harm.

[Mr. Lucky]

A lie is a lie, doesn't matter if it's black or white. It's a lot easier to sleep at night that way, and you don't have to remember all the lies you've told.

So Moose, when your wife says "How do I look in this dress ?", you give her a scathingly honest critique that includes the 10 lbs she could lose, the cellulite on her butt and the fact that you never liked that color on her ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[marlena]

Oh but the Tooth Fairy is real.... I know her personally

 

 

(whispering) So do I!!! She's beautiful, isn't she?

 

(again whispering) I also know Santa Claus!

 

He's the best!!!!!

 

Now why somebody would want to be the Grynch Who Stole Christmas is waaaaaaaaaaay beyond me!!!

[sb129]

So Moose, when your wife says "How do I look in this dress ?", you give her a scathingly honest critique that includes the 10 lbs she could lose, the cellulite on her butt and the fact that you never liked that color on her ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I just realised this thread was posted in the "marriage and life partnerships" forum.

 

So, to stay on topic,

 

In my relationship, we have a total honesty policy which seems to work quite well, but there are obviously examples like Mr Lucky pointed out that don't necessarily always fall under this rule.

 

Wonderboy will tell me if he doesn't like something I am wearing, but he is pretty tactful about it.

I have been known to take the pricetags off a few items off clothing I bought (with my money btw) but its only happened a few times, and not to the detriment of our savings account.

 

The difference is- I want to share everything with WB. There is nothing that I want to hide from him, unlike previous relationships.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have been known to take the pricetags off a few items off clothing I bought (with my money btw) but its only happened a few times, and not to the detriment of our savings account.

I do the same thing in a different way with electronics. My W will walk into our Home Theater and say "Where did this come from ?". My response - "Why Honey, that's always been there, you just never noticed it before"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sb129]

I do the same thing in a different way with electronics. My W will walk into our Home Theater and say "Where did this come from ?". My response - "Why Honey, that's always been there, you just never noticed it before"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Oh i use that line too. "Oh this? I just haven't worn it for aaaaages."

 

Wonderboy is a techie geek too, but so am I, and I know how much electronic things cost, and prefer to buy quality, especially when it comes to sound equipment.

He is very annoyed right now because my mobile phone is better than his.

 

I think he has bought a watch recently that wasn't as cheap as he said it was. But hey.... I am not perfect either, as long as we tell the truth about the big stuff right?

[noturtypicalwife]

well maybe I am a bit over-reactive. I just feel like hiding anything purposely, even when said it wasn't meant to be that way is a lie. I think when you fear telling your spouse something, it's not always to protect them, it's to protect yourself, and that makes it a lie. The santa thing I agree with my daughter is seven and smart she will figure it out, and for the record I believe that there is a bit of Santa in all of us, and thats what makes him real. Thanks for the replies!

[OpenBook]

My daughter believed in the Tooth Fairy up until she was 7, when she caught me trying to put the $$ under her pillow. Wish I'd been wearing my tutu!!

 

And both of us STILL believe in Santa Claus!!

 

Seriously, though (about other stuff)... a lie is a lie. It's neither good nor bad. It's simply when somebody says something that's not the truth. Period. The RIPPLE EFFECT it has on those who hear it - as well as those who say it - is what makes it a white lie, or a deceptive lie, or just totally irrelevant.

[reboot]

Here in the South we call them lies and damn lies.

[Moose]

Really Moose did you have to be QUITE so condescending and dismissive of something as harmless as Santa Claus?

I believe I did mention it was my opinion.....? I also believe that lies are in no way, shape or form, "harmless".

there IS a wide spectrum of the kinds of lies, and it isn't as black and white, as the Righteous Brigade of Right and Wrong would like to think.

You are the one always starting this crap with someone being, "righteous". I state an opinion, and you accuse me of being the "Righteous Brigade".....I wonder how many other threads you've de-railed doing this?

So Moose, when your wife says "How do I look in this dress ?", you give her a scathingly honest critique that includes the 10 lbs she could lose, the cellulite on her butt and the fact that you never liked that color on her ???

Usually it's on the other side of the bell curve. "It shows too much of your cleavage", "You think that slit is far enough up your leg?", "Are you going to wear a sweater over that??".....

[whichwayisup]

"How do I look in this dress ?"

 

This is a loaded question and MOST women know this when they ask it. If you (meaning the general you) are chunky and trying to squeeze into a dress that is abit too small and you aren't sure if it looks okay, well.... ...

 

I mean, what if your bestfriend asks, "Isn't my baby just sooo cute?" but infact the baby is not, it's got a big head or it's just plain ugly, what you are going to say? "Actually, no. Your baby is ugly and not cute at all." Uhhh, I think not..

[Moose]

I mean, what if your bestfriend asks, "Isn't my baby just sooo cute?" but infact the baby is not, it's got a big head or it's just plain ugly, what you are going to say? "Actually, no. Your baby is ugly and not cute at all." Uhhh, I think not..

Knowing my best friend, I would probably say something like, "Well, he/she looks A LOT like his/her father".....

[JamesM]

So Moose, when your wife says "How do I look in this dress ?", you give her a scathingly honest critique that includes the 10 lbs she could lose, the cellulite on her butt and the fact that you never liked that color on her ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Actually, I am not Moose, but yes, I will tell my wife how she looks. But let's not confuse honesty with cruelty. It certainly is good to have a relationship where we can tell each other what we don't like, but it can be done with respect to the other person. I would tell her that the dress makes her hips appear bigger or that her stomach sticks out, but this is because she knows that I do love her. Now, if another woman asked me how she looked, I would be honest, but much less descriptive. Would I tell my wife if she did not ask? Yes. BUT...it is also just as important to remember to say how she looks when she looks good.

 

A lie is a lie is a lie, but we still can distinguish between honesty and hurtful language.

 

So, OP, you think a lie that the spouse says to not hurt you...such as being less than honest about how you look....hurts as much as a lie about him being in an affair?

[sb129]

.I wonder how many other threads you've de-railed doing this? .

 

None. You may have noticed that I have started avoiding threads where there is potential for this kind of argument to start, because quite frankly, I am tired of it, and I can't be bothered with banging my head against a brick wall anymore.

 

You were the one who started flinging mud by pouring scorn on my Santa Claus example. I didn't mean to offend anybody, and if you are so certain that i "derail" threads, why did you even bother to answer me if you knew how I would react?

 

The thread wasn't about whether its appropriate to tell children if Santa Claus exists or not, so if anyone went off topic.......

 

JamesM- I thought your answer was great.

[Moose]

You were the one who started flinging mud by pouring scorn on my Santa Claus example.

For the record, marlena brought up Santa Claus in post #5 along with the Tooth Fairy.

 

You take things too personally especially when I post them....

[Moose]

I stand corrected, you were the first to mention Santa Claus......my bad.

 

Still, I can't help it if you to take my comments so personally.

[Mr. Lucky]

A lie is a lie is a lie, but we still can distinguish between honesty and hurtful language.

I guess I just don't see the world in such black and white terms. When my Mom, after 3 rounds of chemo, showed up at Thanksgiving dinner with the most incongruous blond wig I'd ever seen (she'd been a brunette all her life), it was pretty easy for me to tell her "Mom, your hair looks great!" And I slept very well that night ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Filn]

Why do people always get hung up on crap like Santa and the Tooth Fairy when talking about lies. Of course they are lies. But they are much more then that. They are a part of Western culture. It is, just the way it is. It is almost expected that every child will experience learning that they are not real as a sort of "rite of passage", a way for children to become more grown-up. I would seriously doubt that anyone was very traumatized for their entire lives by learning that Santa isn't real. If they were, they sure have far more serious problems to worry about.

 

With that being said, lies on a more personal level are almost always bad things. When you think about lies that you have told, think about why you have told them. People lie to hide things from others. Don't want your H/W to find out about that missing $1000 you spent on junk, then you make up lies instead of having to face the truth.

 

Or there are lies that are intended to "protect" the other person. The thought of doing such a thing is usually in the wrong place when someone does this anyway. Lying to protect someone usually means that the liar him/herself is really trying to protect their own conscience and they are afraid to deal with their consequences.

 

If you haven't noticed, I have a problem with liars. My separated wife, who I still to this day love and care for very much, is a compulsive liar. I got lied to about everything under the sun. She thought it was OK and did no harm in trying to "protect" me from the truths. But, when I came to realize all the lies, It didn't matter how I felt about her in my heart because I could no longer trust anything she said and I had lost all respect for her. To the point, I can't stand being around her.

[JamesM]

I guess I just don't see the world in such black and white terms. When my Mom, after 3 rounds of chemo, showed up at Thanksgiving dinner with the most incongruous blond wig I'd ever seen (she'd been a brunette all her life), it was pretty easy for me to tell her "Mom, your hair looks great!" And I slept very well that night ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

How about..."Mom, your wig is not nearly as pretty as your hair was, but I love you because you are so special with or without a wig."

 

Honesty does not have to be tactless or cruel.

[sb129]

I stand corrected, you were the first to mention Santa Claus......my bad.

 

Still, I can't help it if you to take my comments so personally.

 

 

I don't..... I just wish you wouldn't disagree with everything I say!

Never mind Moose. Its christmas, and whatever it may mean to you, to me it means I don't want to get into any fights with anyone about anything, so peace please.

 

re: the OP...... People who have been badly burnt by liars tend to be alot less tolerant of them, which stands to reason.