Trying to understand

[stampdaddy]

I hope she does the right thing too. Oh wait, I bet we don't mean the same thing.

 

SLAP! probably not my new friend

[reboot]

I am curious...

 

Do you think that if two people marry they should stay married no matter what?

My comment had nothing to do with whether she stays married or not, but I don't expect you to understand that. I will, however, attempt to explain.

 

"The right thing" to him is for her to leave her husband for him. "The right thing" to me is that she stays or leaves for herself. Breaking up a marriage over an interloper is incredibly stupid considering that a few years down the road it will most likely be the exact same relationship she had in the first place once all the infatuation wears off. As always, just my opinion.

[GreenEyedLady]

My comment had nothing to do with whether she stays married or not, but I don't expect you to understand that. I will, however, attempt to explain.

 

Geez, who peed in your cheerios this morning?

 

I knew what you meant; I'm an educated female...

 

But I wanted to know your mindset because if you truly do believe that people should stay together no matter what, then there's no reasoning about that at all...

[stampdaddy]

My comment had nothing to do with whether she stays married or not, but I don't expect you to understand that. I will, however, attempt to explain.

 

"The right thing" to him is for her to leave her husband for him. "The right thing" to me is that she stays or leaves for herself. Breaking up a marriage over an interloper is incredibly stupid considering that a few years down the road it will most likely be the exact same relationship she had in the first place once all the infatuation wears off. As always, just my opinion.

 

While I respect your opinion, and totally agree with you about "the right thing", I will differ with you regarding "down the road".. For MANY reasons.. Usually infatuation wears off way before 3 plus years, and with this scouring pad of the last several months, should have been scrubbed away. But...

[Tomcat33]

My comment had nothing to do with whether she stays married or not, but I don't expect you to understand that. I will, however, attempt to explain.

 

"The right thing" to him is for her to leave her husband for him. "The right thing" to me is that she stays or leaves for herself. Breaking up a marriage over an interloper is incredibly stupid considering that a few years down the road it will most likely be the exact same relationship she had in the first place once all the infatuation wears off. As always, just my opinion.

 

 

I agree a person should always leave an existing relationship for themselves not for another person. No one wins when a person leaves for someone else.

[stampdaddy]

I'll make no bones about it, IF we wind up together, we will have EXTREME challenges.. But I truly believe that I can bear them, maybe, just maybe, the roads that I have been down, have lead me to where I am today and there is a "WHY" I have been down them.. For this relationship.. I have become a better Father, Person and Man because of her (not that I was a bad guy before).. I am very well aware of the negative that I/WE could/wouild/will face.. and it's NOT pretty.. BUT, LOVE conquers all, right?

[addicted2love]

Stamp...You sound a lot like me. You keep saying that "love conquers all".

I too am a die hard romantic. My MM also makes me feel like a better person.

 

A little back ground...MM and I were each others first loves 18 years ago.

We broke up for many reasons but not because we did not love each other. We both married other people but never forgot about each other and never stopped loving each other. He contacted me out of the blue over a year ago and we discovered that we've both been hanging on all these years. We are both in unfulfiliing marriages but out of obligation and responsibility we stay put. We both have young children as well so that makes it even more difficult.

 

Shortly after he contacted me his W found out about us. D day was ugly and I too had a conversation with his BS. After that he went into hiding for months. At first he told me via email that he wasn't letting me go but that he had to lay low because she was watching him like a hawk. As the months passed I was desperate for closure. I begged him to speak to me one last time so that we could say goodbye properly. His silence drove me crazy and I knew deep down there was only one reason why he wouldn't honor my repeated requests for closure....he didn't want closure with me.

 

When we finally started talking again he admitted that he still couldn't let go. After many many conversations regarding our situation we decided to keep our A going until the time we are either able to be together or one of us decides it's time to walk away. After 18 years of loving each other I doubt that will happen. So we both hold on to hope that one day we will be together. We have chosen to accept the situation for what it is (for now). So yes, true love does conquer all. (funny my MM has said that to me before)

 

As much as it hurts you, should continue to allow your MW the space and time she needs to deal with her M and her H. If she can't/won't let go you will hear from her. If she can or needs to let go she will tell you goodbye. Only you can determine how long you are willing to wait for her. In the mean time do what is best for you. If it takes her longer than you are willing to wait then create that closure for yourself. Grieve it like a death and move on with your life.

 

By the way...I do not believe that any of the wonderful things that you have shared with this woman were a "sham".

 

A2L

[stampdaddy]

Stamp...You sound a lot like me. You keep saying that "love conquers all".

I too am a die hard romantic. My MM also makes me feel like a better person.

 

A little back ground...MM and I were each others first loves 18 years ago.

We broke up for many reasons but not because we did not love each other. We both married other people but never forgot about each other and never stopped loving each other. He contacted me out of the blue over a year ago and we discovered that we've both been hanging on all these years. We are both in unfulfiliing marriages but out of obligation and responsibility we stay put. We both have young children as well so that makes it even more difficult.

 

Shortly after he contacted me his W found out about us. D day was ugly and I too had a conversation with his BS. After that he went into hiding for months. At first he told me via email that he wasn't letting me go but that he had to lay low because she was watching him like a hawk. As the months passed I was desperate for closure. I begged him to speak to me one last time so that we could say goodbye properly. His silence drove me crazy and I knew deep down there was only one reason why he wouldn't honor my repeated requests for closure....he didn't want closure with me.

 

When we finally started talking again he admitted that he still couldn't let go. After many many conversations regarding our situation we decided to keep our A going until the time we are either able to be together or one of us decides it's time to walk away. After 18 years of loving each other I doubt that will happen. So we both hold on to hope that one day we will be together. We have chosen to accept the situation for what it is (for now). So yes, true love does conquer all. (funny my MM has said that to me before)

 

As much as it hurts you, should continue to allow your MW the space and time she needs to deal with her M and her H. If she can't/won't let go you will hear from her. If she can or needs to let go she will tell you goodbye. Only you can determine how long you are willing to wait for her. In the mean time do what is best for you. If it takes her longer than you are willing to wait then create that closure for yourself. Grieve it like a death and move on with your life.

 

By the way...I do not believe that any of the wonderful things that you have shared with this woman were a "sham".

 

A2L

 

THANK YOU!

[addicted2love]

Not sure what you're thanking me for but you are very welcome!

[stampdaddy]

Not sure what you're thanking me for but you are very welcome!

 

she can't/won't let go.......... how do you let go of LOVE?

[addicted2love]

Stamp,

 

This quote had helped me through the hard times...times when I question myself like "what the hell am I doing?"

 

"Without faith nothing is possible, with faith nothing is impossible"

 

And what is faith? It's a blind trust in the "unknown"

 

I have faith that things will work out for me and my MM the way it's "supposed" to. That does not mean that I know things will work out the way we hope or want them to. It means that I will be alright with the way things are "meant" to be. Hope that makes sense.

 

In my M my H has always told me "don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed." I'm so tired of that. Who the hell wants to live that way and never get their hopes up for anything? Kind of takes some of the joy out of life I think.

 

A2L

[scaredinlove]

she can't/won't let go.......... how do you let go of LOVE?

 

if she does she will be a fool.......

 

That is what my MM tells me, he says I am a fool for not being with you full time but I would be a real fool to let you go.

 

If she loves she will go back to you. You guys may nor be together full time now but maybe who knows, future may bring good news.........

[stampdaddy]

A2L It WILL all work out, however it works out..

 

and Scared, she would miss OUR love... But....

[Frances]

I am curious...

 

Do you think that if two people marry they should stay married no matter what?

 

 

When two people marry they usually intend to stay married. They do not intend to give up at the first hurdle. Where I agree that some marriages should finish, you will find that most of those should never have taken place at all.

 

Two REASONABLE people and I stress reasonable who start off loving each other can make a marriage work.

 

When married people allow a third person into the marriage they cause trouble not only to the BS but also themselves and the OW/OM. Where children are concerned the couple should not stay together for the kids sake they have a duty to work at the marriage for the kids sake

[White Flower]

I read a post in this Forum from a Wandering Wife, who is "at home" going through the motions and I cant figure out "WHY"? I could be wrong, but she doesnt seem to LOVE him, and really doesnt seem to be "in LOVE with him". And that is the case here.. SO, I guess my long winded question is: How long can they "go thru the motions" before somebody figures out it's best to start a "new" relationship with eachother? I'm sorry if I am all over the map, but thanks for any input... (I have also posted this in the Infidlety Forum)

Hi Stampdaddy,

 

I think you may have read about me as the Wandering Wife so I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

 

We've been together 25 years and our youngest is in middle school. I told her this summer why he moved out and that we were separating. (He left for a day and changed his mind). She took it very hard and there was a lot of drama. So, the first reason for my staying is for her stability. My other kids back me up completely, btw.

 

I am not one to jump to rash decisions so try to think things through so I'm sure I haven't made a mistake. The flip side to this is mulling over things for too long and missing the perfect opportunity and I understand that. Having said that, the other problem is multi-dimensional. H is controlling, I have low self-esteem, I am in school and working part time in order to retrain for a better carreer because I know I'll have to support myself and a D. I have spent years making a beautiful home that I will surely lose in a D. The list goes on and on and sometimes I don't know which way is up. I finally started counseling and have learned so much in just two visits. I already feel stronger about leaving even if that isn't soon. I don't recall how long your MW has been married and I have not read this entire thread--just your first post, but maybe she is mulling through all the different components before she can make a decision as well. Also, for me, there is no need to rush where MM is concerned because he is not waiting for me as you are waiting for you MW. Of course I feel I should rush for myself but that's another story.

 

I understand your need to post in both forums btw. There are definitely different perspectives to gain from each. You get the more respectable answers you desire at the Infidelity forum because you are taking them seriously and asking them for advice and here in this forum you are not bashing the OP so they give their biggest secrets to perfect strangers. Sometimes even the flamers can give you an honest and valuable perspective I have found.

 

The question I bolded; did you mean without each other?

[stampdaddy]

Hi Stampdaddy,

 

I think you may have read about me as the Wandering Wife so I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

 

We've been together 25 years and our youngest is in middle school. I told her this summer why he moved out and that we were separating. (He left for a day and changed his mind). She took it very hard and there was a lot of drama. So, the first reason for my staying is for her stability. My other kids back me up completely, btw.

 

I am not one to jump to rash decisions so try to think things through so I'm sure I haven't made a mistake. The flip side to this is mulling over things for too long and missing the perfect opportunity and I understand that. Having said that, the other problem is multi-dimensional. H is controlling, I have low self-esteem, I am in school and working part time in order to retrain for a better carreer because I know I'll have to support myself and a D. I have spent years making a beautiful home that I will surely lose in a D. The list goes on and on and sometimes I don't know which way is up. I finally started counseling and have learned so much in just two visits. I already feel stronger about leaving even if that isn't soon. I don't recall how long your MW has been married and I have not read this entire thread--just your first post, but maybe she is mulling through all the different components before she can make a decision as well. Also, for me, there is no need to rush where MM is concerned because he is not waiting for me as you are waiting for you MW. Of course I feel I should rush for myself but that's another story.

 

I understand your need to post in both forums btw. There are definitely different perspectives to gain from each. You get the more respectable answers you desire at the Infidelity forum because you are taking them seriously and asking them for advice and here in this forum you are not bashing the OP so they give their biggest secrets to perfect strangers. Sometimes even the flamers can give you an honest and valuable perspective I have found.

 

The question I bolded; did you mean without each other?

no, they still will have the "relationship" as Co-parents.. that's what I meant

 

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. She IS mulling over alot, and realizes she is taking a risk of losing ME.. She could end up "settling" back into the M, she has been married for 18 years, children, house etc.. However, there is alot of damage now, so I can't see that they could do it for long.. some say 4-5 years to MAYBE get back to a place close to whwere they WERE before the A, and where they WERE wasnt great... BUT?!?!? 11 years before the youngest is out of the nest, and they both might realize "then what"? I read all of these posts of MM/MW "trying" to hang on, when the A was a six month "fling" and there wasnt LOVE involved per se.. He knows that we LOVED each other for 3 1/2 years... again, BUT?!?!?!

 

Thanks again!

[frannie]

"The right thing" to him is for her to leave her husband for him. "The right thing" to me is that she stays or leaves for herself. Breaking up a marriage over an interloper is incredibly stupid considering that a few years down the road it will most likely be the exact same relationship she had in the first place once all the infatuation wears off. As always, just my opinion.

 

Absolutely people should leave marriages (or not) because it's the right thing for them to do for themselves. But I think there is some confusion when people talk about 'leaving for other people'. It doesn't mean you're leaving to please the other person, or for the other person's sake. It means leaving 'to be with' someone else.

 

Even so, I agree with your opinion in many ways: leaving a relationship because you think another relationship would be better is probably not a great idea, for many reasons. Stampdaddy already talked about that in an earlier post (which I quoted): he talked about resentment of the partner you left 'for' (to be with).

 

Which is why I think Stampdaddy is doing the right thing, the only thing, here: staying away from them both while they work things out, whichever way it goes.

 

I'll make no bones about it, IF we wind up together, we will have EXTREME challenges.. But I truly believe that I can bear them, maybe, just maybe, the roads that I have been down, have lead me to where I am today and there is a "WHY" I have been down them.. For this relationship.. I have become a better Father, Person and Man because of her (not that I was a bad guy before).. I am very well aware of the negative that I/WE could/wouild/will face.. and it's NOT pretty.. BUT, LOVE conquers all, right?

 

Whether or not love conquers all is, I think, a personal preference. Not everyone feels that way. Not everyone is a romantic. You may have to accept that while there was (is) love between you, that will make no difference to whether or not she leaves.

 

That is the nature of affairs, unfortunately.

[frannie]

Hey stampdaddy, oddly enough after I'd written that post above about not everyone letting love dictate action, I went to the thread below, Does anyone just get tired of it, and read this from OpenBook, who I hope won't mind me quoting it here (it's post #23 on the thread):

 

"This is one of the hardest - and weirdest - lessons I have ever learned (and am still trying to learn it). I can love a man and still walk away from him knowing I'm doing the right thing for myself and for him... I can't control my heart (damn thing!!) but I can at least control my behavior."

[OpenBook]

Hey stampdaddy, oddly enough after I'd written that post above about not everyone letting love dictate action, I went to the thread below, Does anyone just get tired of it, and read this from OpenBook, who I hope won't mind me quoting it here (it's post #23 on the thread):

 

"This is one of the hardest - and weirdest - lessons I have ever learned (and am still trying to learn it). I can love a man and still walk away from him knowing I'm doing the right thing for myself and for him... I can't control my heart (damn thing!!) but I can at least control my behavior."

 

Frannie that is VERY flattering... I just hope I'm right!! The jury is still out... I'm not convinced that this is the best course of action. I've always believed that the ideal way to live your life is at full-throttle, never hesitating to love with all your heart. This completely goes counter to that. Who knows which one is right?!?!??

[frannie]

Frannie that is VERY flattering... I just hope I'm right!! The jury is still out... I'm not convinced that this is the best course of action. I've always believed that the ideal way to live your life is at full-throttle, never hesitating to love with all your heart. This completely goes counter to that. Who knows which one is right?!?!??

 

Who knows indeed! Not me, that's for sure...

[stampdaddy]

Goodmorning! made it through another sleepless night, the anxiety is strangling me.. Start of day 5... knowing she carries this with her everyday.... (sorry if it's to early in the morning for such sappiness:p)

 

My dearest Darling,

If I am to grow old, I wish with all of my heart to do so gracefully as I walk along life's path with YOU. If I am to discover the true beauty of life, I pray that I will partake of this beauty with YOU by my side. If I am to travel a path of fulfilling MY destiny in life, then I hope from the deepest, most inner part of my being, that the path I travel will always be wide enough for YOU to walk along beside me, for I would not want to experience these joys without YOU. And, upon occasion if the path narrows slightly, and there is only room for one of us at a time, please know that I will follow you, trusting that you would never lead me where it was'nt safe.. that you you would never take me to places where I could not grow, that while you lead, you would be incapable of doing anything that would deter me from what is right for me, or for US, and the LOVE we share.

And, should I be the one to temporarily walk out front along our path, please know that I will ALWAYS be sensitive to your needs.. I will ALWAYS travel the paths of encouragement and enlightenment. I will never lead you into harms way, and although I might be in front, I shall always hold my hand out to you, so that we are never far apart in our travels.. So, my darling Sweet Girl, come grow old with ME, for the best IS YET TO BE....

[reboot]

While I respect your opinion, and totally agree with you about "the right thing", I will differ with you regarding "down the road".. For MANY reasons.. Usually infatuation wears off way before 3 plus years, and with this scouring pad of the last several months, should have been scrubbed away. But...

Sorry, you're very, very wrong about this. Infatuation wears off in a few years in a normal relationship. The illicit nature of your relationship will keep the excitement and infatuation alive much longer than would be expected. Only when you're actually together as an ordinary couple will it start to wane.

 

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you paid her mortgage, or took care of one of her sick kids, or mowed her lawn? Most importantly, when was the last time you disappointed her? Oh there lies the rub. Right now you're perfect, but how perfect will she think you when she's washing your dirty underwear, or cleaning up the pee from the front of the toilet when you "missed" in the middle of the night?

 

There's a whole lot of difference between a commited relationship and banging in a hotel room when no one is looking.

[stampdaddy]

Sorry, you're very, very wrong about this. Infatuation wears off in a few years in a normal relationship. The illicit nature of your relationship will keep the excitement and infatuation alive much longer than would be expected. Only when you're actually together as an ordinary couple will it start to wane.

 

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you paid her mortgage, or took care of one of her sick kids, or mowed her lawn? Most importantly, when was the last time you disappointed her? Oh there lies the rub. Right now you're perfect, but how perfect will she think you when she's washing your dirty underwear, or cleaning up the pee from the front of the toilet when you "missed" in the middle of the night?

 

There's a whole lot of difference between a commited relationship and banging in a hotel room when no one is looking.

 

Reboot, I always have respected your opinion, your advice, as you do have valid, tough things to say, so keep it coming..

 

HOWEVER, without getting into it too deeply about who I am, what I am to her and who WE are, I will try to paint a better picture...

 

Not all affairs wind up in the "hotel room", not all men piss on the floor and dont clean it up, and not all relationships fall into the "hohum", especially for those who have already been down that road (ME) and who love "loving" the other.

 

While I hae not mowed the lawn or paid HER mortgage (as I have my own) nor taken care of a sick child, I HAVE DONE PLENTY for ALL of them, and for my own, and over 3 plus years, she sees what kind of man/father/friend/coach/person that I am, and she loves that man. I won't waste the time explaining all of the "little" things that I add to her/their lives, but I will tell you, IT WILL BE MISSED, and it IS NEEDED..

 

SO, we can get further into this if needed to "validate" myself, this relationship and WE as a couple, which I realize it is what it is, so dont bother telling me again that it is wrong.. I just hope that it will become something different...

[reboot]

SO, we can get further into this if needed to "validate" myself, this relationship and WE as a couple, which I realize it is what it is, so dont bother telling me again that it is wrong.. I just hope that it will become something different...

I'm not trying to tell you it's wrong (even though I think it is), that's your demon, not mine. I came here looking for perspective, and that's what I'm trying to give you. And you don't have to defend yourself to me. I'm just trying to point out things I think are important for you to consider. Other people here will offer different advice. Some will (and I find this highly unconstructive, but whatever) merely pat you on the back and offer you blind hope.

 

The great thing about this place is YOU get to choose who to pay attention to. If my posts are sometimes upsetting, I assume it's because you see some truths in what I say. Otherwise you'd just ignore me.

 

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you. Just offering what you asked for. Advice. If your relationship was all blissful and happy, you wouldn't be here talking to me now. Can we agree on that?

 

You are obviously in pain about this, and I'm just trying to get you to think about YOU, not you and her. Someone needs to, she isn't. She is thinking about HER. You can believe that or not.

 

If I seem harsh at times, I appologize, but please keep in mind I was the husband in your situation, and that's where MY perspective lies.

 

Though to be fair, my W's affair was nothing like you describe. Was I the H of your MW, you would have had her a long time ago.

[addicted2love]

Reboot, I always have respected your opinion, your advice, as you do have valid, tough things to say, so keep it coming..

 

HOWEVER, without getting into it too deeply about who I am, what I am to her and who WE are, I will try to paint a better picture...

 

Not all affairs wind up in the "hotel room", not all men piss on the floor and dont clean it up, and not all relationships fall into the "hohum", especially for those who have already been down that road (ME) and who love "loving" the other.

 

While I hae not mowed the lawn or paid HER mortgage (as I have my own) nor taken care of a sick child, I HAVE DONE PLENTY for ALL of them, and for my own, and over 3 plus years, she sees what kind of man/father/friend/coach/person that I am, and she loves that man. I won't waste the time explaining all of the "little" things that I add to her/their lives, but I will tell you, IT WILL BE MISSED, and it IS NEEDED..

 

SO, we can get further into this if needed to "validate" myself, this relationship and WE as a couple, which I realize it is what it is, so dont bother telling me again that it is wrong.. I just hope that it will become something different...

 

Beautifully said Stamp.

I'd like to know myself why it's so impossible for some to understand that most of us don't WANT to be in an A with the person we love. We simply want to LOVE them. We'd much rather build a solid "normal" relationship with these people who suit us so well. We would love to have the everyday routine, hohum, who's picking up the dry cleaning life with the ones that we love. Why is that so darn hard to understand?