Friends vs Lovers.

[WhySkyCastles]

Perhaps if you are in the same situation as I am, you can learn a few things or two about friendship and relationships from what I write below.

It is a very sad way of writing it, but I think it emphasizes that this is how I feel, and this is how many others will feel about the topic too.

 

I don't think I will ever give this to anyone, and hope I will never have to. In fact, I do not recommend giving this to your friend.

But in due time, I am pretty sure I will have to explain myself and my actions every now and then, that will be when parts of this will become particularly important.

 

I felt I could share it here, if only hopefully to make someone's life out there easier.

I hope it will help you move-on from a hurtful relationship and better understand what you or your friend might be feeling.

 

I hope it can also STRENGTHEN a bond you might have with a friend, and possibly make sure you have good friends who treat you well, as you would do to them.

 

This is from a man's perspective and I am non-religious, but I think it can be applied in any relationship.

 

I also feel this needs to be said because in this day and age, sex and its emotional connections (and implications) are getting lost. Men are barraged with the message of "Have sex with many women, sex is everything. If she doesn't have sex with you, she doesn't like you. Forget her."

This is FAR FROM REALITY, it is not everything, and this is degrading what it is to be a man. Society is losing what it is to be a man, to respect and love your partner fully, as they would do for you.

 

What I wrote may help explain why some of us get into some hurtful relationships, and why we have so much to blame when things don't work out... simply because none of this is said or thought about, when it really needed to be.

It may also help illustrate that your life partner can also eventually become your best friend, or for some people, the other way around.

 

 

Friends vs Lovers.

--------------------

 

Dear you:

 

Please read this completely, and know that I do not want to hurt you in saying:

 

I can't love you, even though you make me feel comfortable

I can't love you, even though you know what makes me feel good.

I can't love you, even though I think you're attractive.

I can't love you, even though you're so interesting.

I can't love you, even though you make me laugh.

I can't love you, even though we get along so well.

I can't love you, even though you deserve to be loved.

I can't love you, even though I love your company.

I can't love you, even though I want to be physically intimate with you.

I can't love you, even though I'm completely comfortable with you in public.

I can't love you, even though I'm here for you if you need anything.

I can't love you, even though I respect you completely.

I can't love you, even though you always know what's best.

I can't love you, even though I can be myself around you.

I can’t love you, even though you are so trusting.

I can’t love you, even though you are so open and honest.

I can't love you, even though I feel at home in your presence.

I can't love you, even though we can talk about anything.

I can't love you, even though you are who you are, and you can be yourself.

 

I can't love you, even though you're everything someone needs in a relationship.

 

I can't love you, even though I need someone to love, and for them to love me.

 

I can't love you, even though others don't treat you with the amount of care, respect, and love that you really deserve, which can be hurtful, because I really do care for you-- but care and love are not the same.

 

I can't love you, because that feeling of emotional and physical attraction is not as strong as I've felt with others before or what I would like it to be... and its very hard for me to tell you that, because I don't want to hurt you with the truth, and wouldn't want to lose a friend.

 

I can't love you, because my past relationships have made the efforts of commitment worth much less to me, the time I spent was not worth how they treated me in the end, I need time to mend, and I do not know how long this will take.

 

I can't love you now... but it would be unfair for you to wait until someday that I may...

 

...What If I NEVER do?

 

I can't love you, because it can be hard to resist hedonistic sex, which can really hurt us both... and If I could love you, I would rather treat you with respect and dignity and give you more than just sex, unlike many others out there who are not strong enough to resist that natural, physical feeling.

 

I can't love you, but please don't hurt yourself because of this, it will not make me love you. (As much as it will break my heart--- I may not love you, but I DO know what love is and how much I would give to keep it, and I know the feelings involved in hurtful relationships).

 

I can't love you, but please don't try to get me jealous, though I may not love you, you can still hurt my feelings when I know I could treat you better. It will only hurt us both in the end.

 

I may tell you: “I love you!“, when something you say or do excites me, but know now that it is only a friendly kind of love, the same way we can love ice-cream.

 

I may say or do things that might imply that I feel more of a connection toward you than that of a friend would have, but that would be harmless flirting, or I may mistakenly be giving-in to lust, for sexual pleasure.

 

...I consider myself a good person, because I have stopped myself from having sex with you... that does not make me less of a person in any way, it is a strength to be able to not give-in to such awesome pleasure, much more so with someone like you, something I have given into before with others, as it is so enjoyable... Honestly I do not hold them in as high regard as a friend as I do yourself.

 

But please don't tempt me...and try to stop me from tempting myself... because sex might be the only thing I am willing to give, and that will keep me from truly loving anyone too.

 

We can't give-in to sex with each other unless we are both able to fully love each other.

 

Perhaps instead I can give you a small piece of my heart-- A little bit of love: It's not everything, but I will care for you and be here when you really need a friend, I will treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, I will trust you and respect you for who you are. We need to be strong, and support each other as friends.

 

If it were not for MY ISSUES, I would love you completely in a heartbeat...

Know that even though I can't love you now (and may NEVER will, as it seems not up to me...), you are still everything I mentioned above, and you can know damn well sure there are people out there that will love you for those very reasons, even though I can’t.

 

Your friend....

 

******

[MsArtful]

This is truly lovely. I think I may be in a similar relationship, I don't think I could really love my friend (though sometiimes I like to fool myself into thinking that I do) because he couldn't give me the kind of affection or emotional involvement that I'd want from him, and I may just be buckling because of the physical attraction between us.

 

Thankyou for sharing.

[Lovegod]

Men are barraged with the message of "Have sex with many women, sex is everything. If she doesn't have sex with you, she doesn't like you. Forget her."

This is FAR FROM REALITY,

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

it is not everything, and this is degrading what it is to be a man.

 

It is not everything, but sex does NOT degrade men. Men have manly desires to have sex with women, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with women. It's entirely natural. Now, if we were to apply your logic that men need to quit degrading themselves by

wanting sex with women, then the entire human race will disappear. Congratulations, you just killed the human race!

 

Society is losing what it is to be a man,

 

Although I agree with this part of the statement, I disagree with what your definition of "man" is. Society has turned man into woman by degrading him for his desire to have sex with women. He is now supposed to share his feelings, be emotional, and put the woman's opinion, thoughts, and desires above his own. Man has become a female robot

controlled by our feminist society. You're a perfect example of the resulting product.

 

I can't love you, blah blah blah blah blah.

 

I really couldn't be bothered to read this part, since it has no meaning and doesn't clearly get your message across.

 

...I consider myself a good person, because I have stopped myself from having sex with you

 

You may consider yourself a good person, but I consider you castrated.

 

it is a strength to be able to not give-in to such awesome pleasure, much more so with someone like you, something I have given into before with others, as it is so enjoyable...

Have you EVER considered the possibility that the woman ALSO enjoys sex? Why are you taking this pleasure away from her? Why should the woman be punished for your distorted ideals on how a man should behave?

 

But please don't tempt me...

 

Now you're begging her to turn you off?

 

and try to stop me from tempting myself...

 

Perhaps she could stab you in the eyes with a fork.

 

We can't give-in to sex with each other unless we are both able to fully love each other.

 

And here you go again trying to kill the human race.

 

Perhaps instead I can give you a small piece of my heart

 

:sick: :sick:

 

I will treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, I will trust you and respect you for who you are.

 

Have you ever considered sex as a way to show that you respect and trust her? It may sound messed up to you, but it does apply.

 

If it were not for MY ISSUES,

 

And here you are blaming yourself for your natural sexual desire to be with women. Perhaps it's a good thing that you're doing this, as I'm not sure I'd want you to pass along these ideas to your own children. At least if you abstain from sex, you won't have children.

 

This is truly lovely.

 

It is?

[WhySkyCastles]

Hi Lovegod,

 

Men have emotions, needs, and sexual desires too. I am not afraid to express my emotions, feelings, needs, and sexual desires, my love for certain women, and certainly not afraid to have sex with whom I choose. I do not consider sex degrading--unless I do not care for them as individuals, or do not feel that sex is what they are asking for.

 

But again I will state, sex is amazing, but sex is not everything.

 

Now, if we were to apply your logic that men need to quit degrading themselves by

wanting sex with women, then the entire human race will disappear. Congratulations, you just killed the human race!

 

Unfortunately that was not my logic. Based on your response I believe you are taking what was written and turning it into an anti-feminist tirade, not once did I state that "wanting sex with women is degrading." I suggest you read it more carefully.

 

I really couldn't be bothered to read this part, since it has no meaning and doesn't clearly get your message across.

 

I really won't bother replying to any of your further messages if you can't read everything I wrote and understand it fully, as I did for you.

 

I should add that what is written here would hopefully promote someone like myself or someone in a similar situation to seek sex elsewhere (from the male perspective), instead of with someone who you wish to remain friends with.

 

Thanks for your feedback though.

[SuperFantastico]

I agree with love god. Yes society is losing what it is to be a man. But you've missed why. They are making men into guys like you.

 

Its fine to love a woman, and its fine to have just sex with them. Women want sex too. But if you are too afraid to take the chance and go for it all the way, heart body and soul, you will just end up a frustrated 'friend'.

 

You should have titled this fear vs lovers, because fear is what is motivating you to write that. You've just deluded yourself to the point where you are ok with it.

 

If you like a girl, then have a healthy relationship with her. If its someone you cant have one with then move on. Its simple but hard.

 

This is what I'VE learned over the years. I was like you maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Its not a healthy way to think or live.

[WhySkyCastles]

Hi SuperFantastico,

 

Thanks for your reply,

 

The difference here, is that I would rather stay 'just friends' with her, I'm the one who would rather not have a committed relationship with her. If she wanted sex from me, I would happily oblige, but I will first make sure she knows the following: That sex is all she will get from me, nothing more, and I stated the reasons as to why.

 

As I stated here:

I can't love you, because that feeling of emotional and physical attraction is not as strong as I've felt with others before or what I would like it to be... and its very hard for me to tell you that, because I don't want to hurt you with the truth, and wouldn't want to lose a friend.

 

Please be sure you have read my post fully and understand it fully before assuming it is something it is not.

 

I am dating and seeing other women as it is right now, as do I have friends who I feel the same way towards me, perhaps I was not clear enough, but this was written to help those understand why someone would NOT commit to more than just a friendship.

 

And I agree, it is better and healthier to move on, to find someone who is willing to "Go all the way." with.

 

I do not encourage trying to have sex with your friends unless they are fine and happy with wanting the same from you.

 

I'm curious to find out what others would say in a similar situation: What would you say to your genuine friend if you found out she loves you, but you -DO NOT- feel the same way towards them.

[SuperFantastico]

Ok let me get this straight then. You know she is in love with you but you are refusing to have sex with her because you dont feel the same, and dont want to hurt her. If thats the case then, cudos to you.

 

It was pretty long and i zoned out a bit. Though i think if you sent this to her, you might have overdone the point a bit. Could have just said 'I love you as a friend only. I dont want to hurt you because you want more and i dont.'

 

Its not an issue if you arnt into her. Just tell her that.

[sally4sara]

Although I agree with this part of the statement, I disagree with what your definition of "man" is. Society has turned man into woman by degrading him for his desire to have sex with women. He is now supposed to share his feelings, be emotional, and put the woman's opinion, thoughts, and desires above his own. Man has become a female robot

controlled by our feminist society. You're a perfect example of the resulting product.

 

I get some of what you're trying to communicate here, but I get confused over this part. Or maybe, being a guy, you don't pick up on the message that comes through with this. I could be wrong, so correct me if I am.

 

Men who are shamed over wanting sex are men that have been degraded and castrated and therefore become equal or the same as a woman?

 

Inside, I am a shamed, degraded, and castrated man? OR the only way a woman is equal to a man is if he is first shamed and degraded?

[Lovegod]

You mean I read all that* and it could've all been summed up in two sentences? No offense, but I find it's usually the women on here who have to write a long-ass post to get their point across.

 

 

* = I zoned out too

[Lovegod]

Men who are shamed over wanting sex are men that have been degraded and castrated and therefore become equal or the same as a woman?

 

I cannot say they are the same as a woman (physical dangly bits do not permit this), but I will say that yes, they are equal to women. This seems to have been the goal of the whole femanist movement (at least the extremists), and I'd have to say it's been successful.

 

Before I go any further, I have to clarify that the feminist movement in it's original incarnation is a good thing. Unfortunately, things have been pushed too far with the extremists. Men and women should both have the same choices and opportunities available in society, but men and woman should not think, act, feel, or cry the same way. They are internally and externally different.

 

But most places I go, I see men who are trying to behave like women, and in some cases, I see women trying to behave like men. Both are a huge turn-off for the opposite sex.

[WhySkyCastles]

Ok let me get this straight then. You know she is in love with you but you are refusing to have sex with her because you dont feel the same, and dont want to hurt her. If thats the case then, cudos to you.

 

Well, that is a gist of it. Except that in a sexual way, sometimes she can be hard to resist.

 

I'm sure some people have been in a relationship with a friend who only gives them sex, and wonder why????

 

Turns out that sometimes its not because they hate you.

 

I suppose this "open letter" is much more for them than anyone else.

[Lovegod]

I suppose this "open letter" is much more for them than anyone else.

 

That's fine. I didn't want to have sex with you anyway

[phyrespryte]

I get what you're trying to say, but there's so much in that first letter that implies otherwise. I get the feeling that you're scared out of your mind and you KNOW that having sex with her will screw you up. Yup, you're going to get hit with that oxytocin and vassopressin and whatever else causes that romantic bonding feeling. And you're afraid that you're going to get hurt, not her.

I can't love you, because it can be hard to resist hedonistic sex...

 

I may say or do things that might imply that I feel more of a connection toward you than that of a friend would have, but that would be harmless flirting, or I may mistakenly be giving-in to lust, for sexual pleasure.

 

I can't love you, but please don't try to get me jealous, though I may not love you, you can still hurt my feelings when I know I could treat you better. It will only hurt us both in the end.

 

Seriously, what malarkey. Love can include hedonistic sex and maybe that's all she'll want. Friends don't behave that way. And jealousy only occurs when you have feelings for someone.

 

I've had friends who wanted more. I said I'm not interested and if necessary went no contact on them. I never gave them some long sappy thing that could pass off as hope.

[mydreams]

You say "you found out she loves you" did she openly tell this to you? She might be in the same boat as you... In any case from your writting it seems that you're hiding your feeling by fear of being hurt with her or worse without her. You show all signs of falling in love with her but you're refusing to admit it. If you are a true friend, you will take the risk of loosing her and tell her how you feel. At least this is what I expect from friends: The truth!

[sally4sara]

I cannot say they are the same as a woman (physical dangly bits do not permit this), but I will say that yes, they are equal to women. This seems to have been the goal of the whole femanist movement (at least the extremists), and I'd have to say it's been successful.

 

Before I go any further, I have to clarify that the feminist movement in it's original incarnation is a good thing. Unfortunately, things have been pushed too far with the extremists. Men and women should both have the same choices and opportunities available in society, but men and woman should not think, act, feel, or cry the same way. They are internally and externally different.

 

But most places I go, I see men who are trying to behave like women, and in some cases, I see women trying to behave like men. Both are a huge turn-off for the opposite sex.

 

You actually do intend to say the women are only equal to a man if the man is broken and cowed first.

Thanks for clearing THAT up for me.

I think I'm done with this forum........so depressing.

[norajane]

In any case from your writting it seems that you're hiding your feeling by fear of being hurt with her or worse without her. You show all signs of falling in love with her but you're refusing to admit it.

 

I agree with this. That you can be hurt and jealous, that you desire her sexually, AND you love her as a friend, too...you could very easily fall in love with her if you start having sex with her AND you if you become less certain that she's so totally into you.

 

Honestly? I think you could fall for her, but what's missing is the fear of losing her. You know she's going to stick around, you know she's there with all those everlasting feelings she has for you, therefore you aren't getting the excitement high that you get around other women who aren't such a sure thing.

 

Maybe if she falls for someone else and isn't a sure thing anymore, you'll feel that excitement which is really just the 'uncertainty' factor at work.

 

Take note: guys who want to be 'just friends' with a woman have NO desire to have sex with her.

[Yamaha]

I think it would be far more humane to break off the friendship with her and allow her to find a true love then to take the easy way out and string her along ( even if you have told her you can't love her ). Men can let their feelings known to a women friend and if she doesn't return the feelings he can move on and either be an acquaintance or end it but a women will be so emotionally involved they can't leave unless you be the stronger one and think of her. Killing her with friendship is hurtful no matter how you sugar coat it.

[Lovegod]

I think I'm done with this forum........so depressing.

 

I know. That's why I stay here for short amounts of time. Anyway, have a nice life outside of Loveshack! The bunny will miss you

[barbarella]

Don't fool yourself - there is almost nothing more frustrating than being told this kind of thing - "I can't love you" is such a hurtful thing. It is not beautiful. Of course you can love someone - people grow into love all the time, and the amount of love you have for people changes constantly - the question isn't "can I" but "do I". And if you can't say "I don't love you, but you should know that...", then you are maintaining hope in the other person. You are stringing them along. You get to be in what certainly sounds like a relationship while being able to convince yourself that you're doing the "right thing" by not actually having sex. You get all of the emotional intimacy but convince yourself that it's okay to act this way because you're not having sex.

 

Also, to be frank, it also sounds like there's a little bit of blaming the other person for essentially being in a relationship but having the gall to imagine that there's any future with this. I have been (and currently am) on the other side of something like this, and can honestly say that the only way to stop hurting the person you "can't" love is to choose - either let yourself find out if you are in love with them, or break it off entirely. That is the only fair thing to do. Your way may feel honest, but it just lets you off the hook without you actually having to take responsibility for your actions. You say that society is losing what it means to be a man? okay, then, be one - do or do not. And of course, this goes for women too.

[underpants]

What a long and flowery way to sound all heartfelt, when really it is just a bunch of fear.

 

A load of hooey if you ask me.

 

You like her in everyway, yet you can't love her.

 

You would rather hold on to your fears and past disappointments rather then accept a possibility that you could be more to someone who you enjoy in every way.

 

I like her...she likes me...therefore there must be something wrong with her...I can't love someone who loves me. (why do people do this?)

 

Go find some girls to treat you really really bad, that will feed your issues more. Validate your self loathing and all that jazz.

 

Or try a new way.

[WhySkyCastles]

Don't fool yourself - there is almost nothing more frustrating than being told this kind of thing - "I can't love you" is such a hurtful thing. It is not beautiful. Of course you can love someone - people grow into love all the time, and the amount of love you have for people changes constantly - the question isn't "can I" but "do I". And if you can't say "I don't love you, but you should know that...", then you are maintaining hope in the other person. You are stringing them along. You get to be in what certainly sounds like a relationship while being able to convince yourself that you're doing the "right thing" by not actually having sex. You get all of the emotional intimacy but convince yourself that it's okay to act this way because you're not having sex.

 

Also, to be frank, it also sounds like there's a little bit of blaming the other person for essentially being in a relationship but having the gall to imagine that there's any future with this. I have been (and currently am) on the other side of something like this, and can honestly say that the only way to stop hurting the person you "can't" love is to choose - either let yourself find out if you are in love with them, or break it off entirely. That is the only fair thing to do. Your way may feel honest, but it just lets you off the hook without you actually having to take responsibility for your actions. You say that society is losing what it means to be a man? okay, then, be one - do or do not. And of course, this goes for women too.

 

Hi Barbarella. I completely agree with what you write here. I have been on both sides of this situation. Near the end of what I wrote you will see this line: "If it were not for MY ISSUES, I would love you completely in a heartbeat..."

 

It really is fear... and what I wrote is a rationalization. It is one both men and women make.

 

I'm glad you and I hope others will see this for what it is.

 

It is I who have to overcome this fear, by either distancing myself or helping her find someone. Or by stepping up and telling her that I've grown to love her, despite all this time we've spent together as "just friends".

 

The idea behind what I wrote was to show that even though someone may genuinely feel a certain way about another, all of what is thought may never be shared, because:

 

1. They are too scared to hurt them, or too scared of being hurt again.

 

2. They'd rather they distance themselves to help their friend find someone who is not afraid to love them fully.

 

3. They are too scared to step up and tell them how much you've grown to love them, for fear of the unknown - what if I lose their friendship?

 

4. They feel that the "the timing is not right".

 

The truth is if you are really such close friends, you can talk and work all things out. And what is not a glorious friendship than one that is open and honest, not to mention, is okay with having some love around?

 

You're a good friend if you love and care for each other and show it. You're not a good friend if you keep things like this to yourself.

 

What is really happening here is a failure to be open and honest, and it is a selfish rationalization.

 

As for what underpants said, these really are heartfelt, genuine feelings, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with her, it is all me.

[Meaplus3]

You say "you found out she loves you" did she openly tell this to you? She might be in the same boat as you... In any case from your writting it seems that you're hiding your feeling by fear of being hurt with her or worse without her. You show all signs of falling in love with her but you're refusing to admit it. If you are a true friend, you will take the risk of loosing her and tell her how you feel. At least this is what I expect from friends: The truth!

 

Mydream's said it the best here! Now Whysky Castles, it's sound's like you have internal issues here with yourself. I would come out and tell her the truth.

 

 

AP:)

Edited January 3, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Florida]

What is this post about? I don't get it, there were a of of I can't love you's and none of it makes sense.

[WhySkyCastles]

What is this post about? I don't get it, there were a of of I can't love you's and none of it makes sense.

 

I think its one of those posts you'd have to be in the same situation or have been through it before to understand fully. It is a lot to read, but I wanted to get down all the feelings and emotions that were involved...

[underpants]

As for what underpants said, these really are heartfelt, genuine feelings, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with her, it is all me.

 

I agree.

 

Hope you can let go of all those fears and rationalizations of them.

 

Or else, this same thing will happen over and over and over again. Or you will be drawn to women who you subconsciously know will hurt you and then you can realize and justify the fears even more.

 

Self sabatoge.