do abusers ever change ?

[woodthorpe]

My friend is with a man I think she should leave because (in my opinion) he abuses her. They have been together 20 years.

 

He has hit her, kicked her, punched her (including when she was pregnant), pulled her hair. He screams and shouts at her holding his face about 6 inches from her nose. He throws her things around and has threatened to throw all her clothes out of the bedroom window. His language is foul - he calls her a stupid bitch, a whore, and tells her probably once a week to F**K off.

 

She is generally quiet and sweet mannered, but has her moods like other people. The shouting starts because maybe the traffic was bad on the way home or he had a bad day, and she will say something he doesn't like in reply and in two sentences it is back to something that happened 15 or 20 years ago when she was wrong and he'll go over it again proving what a useless human being she is.

 

She won't leave - she says he's Ok at other times, but she also says she is scared of him. He says if she leaves he will open a website with all sorts of details about things she has done - details about sex etc. Some will be true and some will be lies but he will write it all there.

 

How can I help her ? Is she really burying her head in the sand when she says he will change ? Is there anything I can do?

[jmargel]

The only way a person will change is when they want to change. This guy apparently doesn't want to change, so the abuse will continue.

 

What he is doing is abuse, and though we both know she needs to escape, she won't. She is more fearful of the unknown right now than to his abuse. This fear of the unknown was done by him so he can continue his controlling, abusive behavior.

 

He doesn't not have any value in this marriage and treats her like an object, because to him he believe he 'owns' her. What your friend needs is counseling, and I would highly suggest that she see a counselor without him. He will never have to know, since everything is confidental. Encourage this to her. A good counselor will know how to deal with someone in her situation alot better than we could.

 

She cannot fix him, she's tried for 20 years. Unfortunetly for some people no matter what avenues of help you try to give them, they won't take. She has to want things to change bad enough to actually do something about it. She needs to find deep within' herself to believe that she will be much better off without him.

[liddie]

Speaking from experience...

 

I was married to a man who abused me for 4 years. Although it was all emotional and mental (which is harder to recover from) it did turn physical which is the day I left.

 

He may not know that he is doing anything wrong. If he grew up around abuse, then this is a natural way to be. That was the case of my ex. To this day he says I made it all up and that he didn't do anything to hurt me...HA!

 

My advice for you....pick her and the kids up (if there are any) and take her to a shelter. They will protect her and give her a means to an end. If there are children, then they are learning to carry on the pattern of abuse.

[sw]

No they dont change.... lots of good info here

 

http://hiddenhurt.rhiannon3.net/topics.cfm?communityid=1&siteid=3

[Meaplus3]

The only way a person will change is when they want to change. This guy apparently doesn't want to change, so the abuse will continue.

 

What he is doing is abuse, and though we both know she needs to escape, she won't. She is more fearful of the unknown right now than to his abuse. This fear of the unknown was done by him so he can continue his controlling, abusive behavior.

 

He doesn't not have any value in this marriage and treats her like an object, because to him he believe he 'owns' her. What your friend needs is counseling, and I would highly suggest that she see a counselor without him. He will never have to know, since everything is confidental. Encourage this to her. A good counselor will know how to deal with someone in her situation alot better than we could.

 

She cannot fix him, she's tried for 20 years. Unfortunetly for some people no matter what avenues of help you try to give them, they won't take. She has to want things to change bad enough to actually do something about it. She needs to find deep within' herself to believe that she will be much better off without him.

 

The only way a person will change is when they want to change. This guy apparently doesn't want to change, so the abuse will continue.

 

Very, Very True!

 

AP:)

 

[woodthorpe]

Thanks for all your replies - I suppose i knew what would be said, but the web links will be useful. I'll pass them on.

 

I wish I could give her some backbone - he's destroyed her confidence (although he claims he only builds it up). He's stolen her life and her chance of children (but he says that's what she deserved as she isn't fit to bring up children). I want her to find some happiness even if it is in the later years of her life.

 

thanks again

[optimist]

My friend is with a man I think she should leave because (in my opinion) he abuses her. They have been together 20 years.

 

He has hit her, kicked her, punched her (including when she was pregnant), pulled her hair. He screams and shouts at her holding his face about 6 inches from her nose. He throws her things around and has threatened to throw all her clothes out of the bedroom window. His language is foul - he calls her a stupid bitch, a whore, and tells her probably once a week to F**K off.

 

She is generally quiet and sweet mannered, but has her moods like other people. The shouting starts because maybe the traffic was bad on the way home or he had a bad day, and she will say something he doesn't like in reply and in two sentences it is back to something that happened 15 or 20 years ago when she was wrong and he'll go over it again proving what a useless human being she is.

 

She won't leave - she says he's Ok at other times, but she also says she is scared of him. He says if she leaves he will open a website with all sorts of details about things she has done - details about sex etc. Some will be true and some will be lies but he will write it all there.

 

How can I help her ? Is she really burying her head in the sand when she says he will change ? Is there anything I can do?

yes there is alot you can do! be there 24 7 for her. in the dead of night and in the daylight be there because she needs a friend. never ever judge her, its her decission to stay or leave. bit do point out to her she is worthy of so much more and life doesnt and shouldnt have to be like this. i stayed with my ex partner for the same period of time and suffered mental abuse and mind games, in fact i left several times and went back each time because i was scared, hard to understand if you've never been in that position. hopefully in time she will gain strength to leave him and she will neded you even more then. i dont know how i got through it without the support of my friends. we all have a cut off point when we think ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. your friend probably hasn't come to that point yet. years on my ex still plagues my life from time to time but now i am strong and he is weak. i may have lost the battle on several occasions but ultimately i won the war! be there for her, counsel her, listen to her, support her. you're probably all she's got and needs.

[amaysngrace]

yes there is alot you can do! be there 24 7 for her. in the dead of night and in the daylight be there because she needs a friend. never ever judge her, its her decission to stay or leave. bit do point out to her she is worthy of so much more and life doesnt and shouldnt have to be like this. i stayed with my ex partner for the same period of time and suffered mental abuse and mind games, in fact i left several times and went back each time because i was scared, hard to understand if you've never been in that position. hopefully in time she will gain strength to leave him and she will neded you even more then. i dont know how i got through it without the support of my friends. we all have a cut off point when we think ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. your friend probably hasn't come to that point yet. years on my ex still plagues my life from time to time but now i am strong and he is weak. i may have lost the battle on several occasions but ultimately i won the war! be there for her, counsel her, listen to her, support her. you're probably all she's got and needs.

 

Spoken like a true optimist!

 

And optimist is right. We all have our breaking points. She hasn't gotten there yet. Maybe she never will. But do listen to her without much judgment if you can. You aren't in her shoes. Abuse is hard to handle. It crushes you from the inside out. She probably thinks very little of herself because she takes it yet she stays.

 

One day she may change her mind though. It's not about what you say or anything you do. It has to be her own decision to draw her own conclusion. She needs to see it for herself.

 

For me it got to the point where I knew how bad things were. That much I knew. The unknown was a risk but I took a chance of just knowing it would have to be better than where I was.

 

She probably doesn't see it like that. Right now she is probably making excuses to stay rather than reasons to leave.

 

It's the mentality of the abused.

 

But hopefully one day she'll wake up. And until then all you can really do is be her friend.

[woodthorpe]

I keep hearing the same thing - everyone has their own breaking point.

 

I mentioned this to my friend and she said " that's what my (on-line) counsellor said last year. One day I will wake up and say enough is enough" Then I will leave.

 

I hope she reaches that point soon. A lovely man was interested in her, but wouldn't make a move because she was in a relationship - she missed out on such a good man.

 

I hope she sees it soon.

 

Happy Hols everyone !

[OWoman]

Spoken like a true optimist!

 

And optimist is right. We all have our breaking points. She hasn't gotten there yet. Maybe she never will. But do listen to her without much judgment if you can. You aren't in her shoes. Abuse is hard to handle. It crushes you from the inside out. She probably thinks very little of herself because she takes it yet she stays.

 

One day she may change her mind though. It's not about what you say or anything you do. It has to be her own decision to draw her own conclusion. She needs to see it for herself.

 

For me it got to the point where I knew how bad things were. That much I knew. The unknown was a risk but I took a chance of just knowing it would have to be better than where I was.

 

She probably doesn't see it like that. Right now she is probably making excuses to stay rather than reasons to leave.

 

It's the mentality of the abused.

 

But hopefully one day she'll wake up. And until then all you can really do is be her friend.

 

Counselling helps, as well as exposure to a "normal" relationship so that the abused person can see that love doesn't have to hurt.

 

I've been involved with a MM whose W abuses him - mostly psychologically and emotionally, but on occasion physically as well. In front of their kids. She's also emotionally abusive to the kids at times, but then swings over to smothering them with gifts and attention and hanging around them when they want space.

 

Despite all their friends, family and colleagues telling him for years that his M was abusive, he always blamed himself (she blames him for everything, even the weather ) and so never thought he "deserved" better.

 

They did go for MC but his W dropped out when the counsellor told her her behaviour was abusive and so MM continued with IC, and he's been able to recognise things better now and to work on his self-esteem and his confidence. He also succumbed to my advances and through being in a "normal" R with me has come to see that people who love each other don't try to put each other down all the time, don't belittle each other in front of other people and certainly don't attack each other physically. He's also seen that his behaviour is not unreasonable and he can't be blamed for things his W chooses to take exception to. And that, actually, he's a very good lover and not someone who just can't get it right. That's helped him to get perspective and to see that things are definitely not OK in is M, not good for his kids and not all just his fault. And so, after decades of abuse, he's finally gotten it together to move on.

 

Woodthorpe I'm sorry your friend didn't take the opportunity of the "lovely man" because that might have helped her too to learn to value herself more and to get what she deserves, instead of just being a punch-bag for someone else's problems.

[carrotgirl]

She won't leave - she says he's Ok at other times, but she also says she is scared of him. He says if she leaves he will open a website with all sorts of details about things she has done - details about sex etc. Some will be true and some will be lies but he will write it all there.

 

How can I help her ? Is she really burying her head in the sand when she says he will change ? Is there anything I can do?

Wood, it's quite possible your friend reached her breaking point long ago and what you're seeing (despite what it may seem) is your friend's survival instinct functioning and preserving.

 

Meaning no disrespect to those who have different experiences - When someone who is abused makes wishful thinking, forward looking statements this should never be summarily heard as being only typical "abuse mentality".

 

It's very important for all of us to remember that sometimes when someone says things like I'm afraid to do something to anger him because it will only get worse or He'll hurt me or If I leave he'll kill me, that really IS the case.

 

You can help her by providing a safe, judgmental-free place for her to go for a cup of tea, a meal, a nap, for an hour, an afternoon, a week, a month. You can help her by letting her know you are a witness to her existence. Tell her that you see her and you love her.

 

Carrot