Had a visitor today...

[Tomcat33]

At any rate before this becomes a back and forth of what we think it means vs what it means vs what we all think and it turns in to useless bickering....what I have been saying all along is that if he feels like caving in or dropping out for a bit to dwell in it all it's natural he would feel this way, it is normal and even healthy. It is too soon and he needs to deal with the pain as he sees fit. If he wants to redirect his focus that's great but if he wants to dwell on it a bit that's also fine, that's my key message it's not a matter of right or wrong it's just what I believe.

 

People already feel like they want it to go all way when they feel like this and to add on top of that the pressure of having to MAKE it go away is too stressful and counterproductive, it will all go away when it needs to but it will go way.

 

If it were 6months post break-up I would not be inclined to say the same thing. We have to take some prespective on where he is in terms of timelines, you can't expect so much from someone in mourning. Words of caution is fine.

 

And by the way Luvmy I bet your friends/loved ones had been trying to "rattle your cage" for quite sometime, the fact you actually heard them when you did may have more to do with your level of readiness inside and not so much with the extrenal message...that's my guess.

[luvmy2ns]

I wasn't seeing a married person, no, so in that way we are dissimilar. However, I think we can safely say that nearly every human being who has a few years under their belt has had their heart broken and found themselves dwelling on the past. And yes, of course I talked with people about it. It took a friend's impactful, strong words to shake me out of my fog.

[Tomcat33]

I wasn't seeing a married person, no, so in that way we are dissimilar. However, I think we can safely say that nearly every human being who has a few years under their belt has had their heart broken and found themselves dwelling on the past. And yes, of course I talked with people about it. It took a friend's impactful, strong words to shake me out of my fog.

 

 

 

 

Here we go....or here you go, I won't partake.

 

You know what I meant so leave the jabs out it's pointless.. seeing a married person or not is irrelevant we are talking about the mourning of a break-up it's the same doesn't matter if your partner was married or single or the king of Spain, the break-up itself feels the same.

[luvmy2ns]

And by the way Luvmy I bet your friends/loved ones had been trying to "rattle your cage" for quite sometime, the fact you actually heard them when you did may have more to do with your level of readiness inside and not so much with the extrenal message...that's my guess.

 

Good guess, but no. Most of my friends just listened sympathetically and tried to tell me he wasn't worth it. All that did was send me deeper. My best friend finally just let me have it in a loving, yet PO'd kinda way. Broke through the layer of stupidity I had surrounded myself in.

[luvmy2ns]

Here we go....or here you go, I won't partake.

 

You know what I meant so leave the jabs out it's pointless.. seeing a married person or not is irrelevant we are talking about the mourning of a break-up it's the same doesn't matter if your partner was married or single or the king of Spain, the break-up itself feels the same.

 

No jab meant - not in the least. Please don't read into what I say like that, trying to make me look bad. He was seeing a married person. It's not a jab, just a fact, and the difference between his situation and mine. Geez!

[Tomcat33]

Good guess, but no. Most of my friends just listened sympathetically and tried to tell me he wasn't worth it. All that did was send me deeper. My best friend finally just let me have it in a loving, yet PO'd kinda way. Broke through the layer of stupidity I had surrounded myself in.

 

 

Was this about your H when he cheated? Are you a BS I can't remember....there is a point to my question by the way...

[luvmy2ns]

Was this about your H when he cheated? Are you a BS I can't remember....there is a point to my question by the way...

 

Not a BS, no. Had a BF who was sneaking about, and I dropped kicked him gladly. He was a virtual albatross around my neck. And this wasn't about him. It was just a situation with a guy I fell hard for, dwelled on far too long, then finally let go after a good friend kicked me in the patootie.

 

I'm now happy with a great guy. The funny thing is, the guy I dwelled on too long contacted me about a year ago, but I was already in the beginning stages (about 5 months in) with my current love. We did have some conversation, and he tried to get back into my life. However, things were going great with my sweety, so I didn't bite. The more I now know about the other guy, the happier I am that things didn't work out. He's an okay guy, but I think he's the type that can't be alone. I don't need to be anyone's crutch!

[stampdaddy]

Ladies, please.. WHile I can not see myself EVER saying F*** it regarding her or my feelings for her (at this particular moment in time), I will say that I am wise enough to "accept" what is what, when that day comes.. The moment that I am told that she is going to work on her M, that will help, and believe me, I have asked over and over for this answer.. All I know today, is that all of the posts I have read and written HAVE been helpful in their own maner, good and bad.. As I am able to distinguish "patterns", I am also holding out hope, as slim as it is, but that is what HOPE is for, right?

 

I am the one that has had his finger on the pulse of this thing, reading between the lines, feeling , sensing, flat out asking if she is keeping me as plan "B", an never,not once has this been the answer. The ONLY answer that I have been given is this: "she needs time away from me, to miss me, so let things settle into place over there, go to these counseling meetings where H goes ape, as she keep her eyes open.. And, she does not want to lie anymore while going through this, "not while she is living under his roof", she said.. It would NOT be good for her to get caught lying AGAIN.. It could cause BIG problems if they Divorce..

 

I really want to open up this topic along with another from BS H...

[reboot]

If she doesn't want to lie anymore why does she continue to do so?

[stampdaddy]

If she doesn't want to lie anymore why does she continue to do so?

I'm trying to figure out if it is a "save my ass" tactic, or guilt or both.. She has tied the comment of "things could get bad for me if I am caught lying again", to " I can't be lying to him WHILE I am living under HIS roof".

 

I need to pick your brain about some stuff, what's the best way to do that?

[reboot]

Just ask me?

[stampdaddy]

Just ask me?

 

I'm trying to figure out what could be going on in HIS mind:

 

First, obviously blindsided 5 months ago that his W was involved, not had had, but currently involved in a 3 year A. His words, "compulsively lying to me".. Promised her that if she as much thinks about me, she's out the door.. Then, he finds out a few more times that she is still having contact with me. Is told that she is in love with me, not him. The lies keep popping up, but he keeps wanting to trust her..

 

He said the other day that nothing has changed. It just keeps coming abd coming.. He hates the person that he is becoming because of her. He used to be this, he used to be that, etc..

 

I mean, how can he go through the motions, like hosting a company Christmas party at their house tomorrow night? Being in the rotation of a neighborhood Holiday appetiser night Saturday? (although everything will already be set up from the night before, but still, how can you "act" like everything is normal?)

 

At what point does "reality" set in?

 

He told her that she is only using him as "room and board", a "meal ticket".

 

Again, just the other day, he said something to the effect of her "two lives, one over here with the kids, house and MY paycheck, and then going over to OM's house, walking in the door ans saying, "Hey Honey, I'm HOME"

 

When do you figure out that the W that you are wanting back is gone?

 

**please be kind re: her right now, my feelings are too raw for bashing. Thanks

[ConfusedGirl004]

SD, she likes her 2 lives...she has her real life with her kids, her house, real problems etc...and she has her escape from real life with you. What makes you sure that should you "get the girl", that she won't want the same thing once YOU become her real life and she wants to escape from that?? She may love you right now. But be assured she loved her husband just as much if not more on their wedding day. Then kids came in, then the hustle and bustle of real life came in, and she wanted an escape, and ideal world with an ideal man.

 

It's obviously too late to say Guard your heart because clearly, you are deeply in love....the only advice I can say from being the OW is that you should reflect on the integrity of this woman. Believe me, once it's over, you'll see she'll move on fine without you, and that will hurt like a B*tch.

But her marriage is forever changed..and in time, she will look for another OM so she can live in fantasy land again.

My .02

[serial muse]

I'm trying to figure out what could be going on in HIS mind:

 

First, obviously blindsided 5 months ago that his W was involved, not had had, but currently involved in a 3 year A. His words, "compulsively lying to me".. Promised her that if she as much thinks about me, she's out the door.. Then, he finds out a few more times that she is still having contact with me. Is told that she is in love with me, not him. The lies keep popping up, but he keeps wanting to trust her..

 

He said the other day that nothing has changed. It just keeps coming abd coming.. He hates the person that he is becoming because of her. He used to be this, he used to be that, etc..

 

I mean, how can he go through the motions, like hosting a company Christmas party at their house tomorrow night? Being in the rotation of a neighborhood Holiday appetiser night Saturday? (although everything will already be set up from the night before, but still, how can you "act" like everything is normal?)

 

At what point does "reality" set in?

 

He told her that she is only using him as "room and board", a "meal ticket".

 

Again, just the other day, he said something to the effect of her "two lives, one over here with the kids, house and MY paycheck, and then going over to OM's house, walking in the door ans saying, "Hey Honey, I'm HOME"

 

When do you figure out that the W that you are wanting back is gone?

 

**please be kind re: her right now, my feelings are too raw for bashing. Thanks

 

I'm not a betrayed husband (I was a BW though) - but I just wanted to say something to this. He's saying all these things because he's deeply, deeply hurt, and because he's hoping they aren't true.

 

And the thing is, what you're saying is "reality" hasn't really been established yet. It may yet turn out that what he fears most is true - that what he's saying is how she really feels. But that's not yet reality. I know it hurts to hear this, but it's not yet an objective truth. The subjective reality you see and that you inhabit is that she obviously loves you, not him, you two are meant to be together, and everything she has said to you (short of actually leaving him) is confirming this reality. It's so convincing to you that you believe it to be objectively true, rather than a product of your desires and wishes as much as her deceit.

 

His reality is quite different, however, and is equally a product of his desires and wishes, and her deceit. It's that this is an aberration, they're going through a tough time, she's in the fog, she doesn't know what she wants, actions speak louder than words - i.e., she hasn't actually left him to be with you - and who's actually meant to be together is far from determined. This, too, is a subjective reality, but it's the world he's living in, just like yours is the world you're currently living in. You need to believe, and so you do. Just like he does.

 

The objective truth, of course, is likely to be neither of these. I can't honestly say how I think this will turn out, because I just don't know. But if you want to understand him, then you have only to look inward - he believes as fervently as you do, stamp. Please try to understand that. You are both receiving mixed signals, and that is why no one's reality has yet come crashing down. You and he have more in common than you may think.

[stampdaddy]

SD, she likes her 2 lives...she has her real life with her kids, her house, real problems etc...and she has her escape from real life with you. What makes you sure that should you "get the girl", that she won't want the same thing once YOU become her real life and she wants to escape from that?? She may love you right now. But be assured she loved her husband just as much if not more on their wedding day. Then kids came in, then the hustle and bustle of real life came in, and she wanted an escape, and ideal world with an ideal man.

 

It's obviously too late to say Guard your heart because clearly, you are deeply in love....the only advice I can say from being the OW is that you should reflect on the integrity of this woman. Believe me, once it's over, you'll see she'll move on fine without you, and that will hurt like a B*tch.

But her marriage is forever changed..and in time, she will look for another OM so she can live in fantasy land again.

My .02

 

I dont think she will.. Not every person is like that..

[ConfusedGirl004]

I dont think she will.. Not every person is like that..

Yes, I remember feeling that way too...

[reboot]

The only thing I can add to serial muse's excellent post is that, I know you think you do, I know you believe you do, but YOU DON'T KNOW what she's saying to him.

 

I find it terribly hard to believe he stays in such a situation without being offered some kind of hope.

[luvmy2ns]

Of course every person isn't like that, but she's been dragging this on with you for years and, by your own words, lying to her husband time and time again. Do you not seriously think she would "do you" the same way if you were in a committed relationship with you? Three years? Come on. Here's your "F THIS" moment, man!

[stampdaddy]

Thanks Muse.. I figure that he (probably both of us) are in deep denial. His being "not wanting to believe this is true", but it is, and mine being "this has to work out, we've come too far down this path of becoming WE".

 

So I guess it's a race to the "Reality Finish Line", huh?

[stampdaddy]

The only thing I can add to serial muse's excellent post is that, I know you think you do, I know you believe you do, but YOU DON'T KNOW what she's saying to him.

 

I find it terribly hard to believe he stays in such a situation without being offered some kind of hope.

 

Yep, youve got to be right.. She has said, "we can't just go from A to Z, just like that", which tells him what? That "Z" is possible.. I know that she has said that she is not sure of what she wants.. I know that she said when fronted with the cact that she would still be seeing me if we hadnt gotten caught by replying, "that's not true, OM and I knew this coulndnt go on as it was, something had to change (referring to her leaving ME I bet)"

 

No doubt that she has mastered the art of "putting the right words into the wrong context" for BOTH of us...

[reboot]

So I guess it's a race to the "Reality Finish Line", huh?

Yeah, only both of you are living in HER reality, not your own.

[whichwayisup]

The lies keep popping up, but he keeps wanting to trust her..

 

He is giving her the "grace period". I think Owl summed it up in his post replies to you.

 

Look, the bottomline is, this is HIS wife - HIS marriage - HIS life he's worked hard to have, so he isn't going to just hand over his wife to you and let her go. He has every right to fight for his wife, give her chance after chance BECAUSE he still loves her.

 

Obviously HIS 'enough is enough' moment hasn't happened, and hers hasn't either seeing as she isn't pushing for divorce, she isn't exactly doing all that she can to fix her marriage either.

 

this has to work out, we've come too far down this path of becoming WE".

And in his mind, I'm betting he is thinking, "we've gone through alot, we have many many years of memories, children, family and friends to let go of WE."

[serial muse]

Thanks Muse.. I figure that he (probably both of us) are in deep denial. His being "not wanting to believe this is true", but it is, and mine being "this has to work out, we've come too far down this path of becoming WE".

 

So I guess it's a race to the "Reality Finish Line", huh?

 

Well...I think the thing I'm worried about - for both of you - is that when her reality is finally clear to you, there will be pain on all sides. Her reality is neither yours nor his, and that's what's going to be so difficult to absorb. You may get the girl, stamp - I'm not saying you won't - but there will be things you'll learn at that point that may still bring you pain, because her truth doesn't quite align with yours. If it did, she'd be with you now.

 

Again, that doesn't mean she won't choose you, in the end. I just don't know. But it means that you should prepare yourself for a long haul - there are almost certainly things she isn't being honest with you about, because she's not ready to puncture your pure vision of her, and of you together.

[ConfusedGirl004]

I'm curious...I know you're in NC with her right now...Did you give her a timeline...or is it open?

If it is open, a "come back when you made up your mind" then you are drawing out your pain more than necessary.

If you feel you are so sure YOU are the one she loves and will ultimately be with, tell her, you expect her to be with you by the end of the year (or another specific time that you feel is right). If she loves YOU, she wouldn't want to see you hurt for another day.

I guess the old saying, **** or get off the toilet applies here since everything is out in the open about the A.

Don't put your life on hold....if it doesn't work out in your favor..you'd be spending precious time chasing a dream. I've been there, done that and it's a huge regret.

[whichwayisup]

there are almost certainly things she isn't being honest with you about, because she's not ready to puncture your pure vision of her, and of you together.

This is very true and she also isn't ready to throw her marriage away either. And it isn't JUST about the kids and disrupting their lives, this is about EVERYONE in her life and the life she's become accustomed to.