Reconciliation done wrong / not possible??

[jesslindy]

Hello All. Some of you might remember my story. If you want to read my first thread you can find it here ----> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t126384/

 

My last thread ended with my wife wanting to come home. I took a break from posting so I could concentrate, but that turned out to be a mistake. I could have used the help, beleive me. Our reconciliation attempt went horribly. On both of our parts.

 

I'll break it down. I stopped my last thread after spending about 5 days with my wife. As you can see those 5 days weren't all that bad. My wife and I had a few serious conversations right off the bat. Actually, looking back I talked alot and she shooked and nodded more than using words.

I told my wife I needed an apology, some meaningful conversation. I told her just because I am a man, I still need to feel special and loved especially in this situation. She did nothing of the sort. Which in turn I acted like a baby and a victim and my anger boiled over. I waited and waited, taking stock every night if my Wife had said anything that made me feel better. She hadn't. I had some very painful conversations with her expressing my trust issues, and how I felt that she really wasn't doing what she needed to do to learn some communication skills so we could share her feelings. So I could finally see what she is all about inside. I now know that there is nothing in there. She has even said that herself. She has flat out said she is empty. And when she's not her mouth can't open up and express anything. Now I did not handle this well at all. We got along great at first but I expressed my concerns about us not handling our resentments and obvious hurt, that it would bite us hard if we couldn't or didn't. I was right on that one. I didn't press hard enough on really trying to get over that stuff. I was looking for her to take it all away. Shes not capable. She admitted that as well. She said "When have I ever been able to say anything to make it better for you. I dont know how." I expected something that she is not capable of, and it made me mad. I didn't give it enough time, and reacted poorly. My attitude slipped just a little bit everyday. I kept filling up my head with negative thoughts, instead of communicating my concerns fully. My attitude worsened everyday she didn't "rescue" me so to speak. Everyday she didn't apologize or say something meaningful. I never gave her a roadmap so to speak.

 

Shes been going to therapy, about 4 times now. Come to find out shes been back to blaming me in there and I'd bet a million dollars her therapist has no idea about the cheating. My wife still blames me for her cheating. She says she can't communicate with me because of me. That's the most frustrating part. When it is so not true. She promised me when she came all we would do is talk. She didn't come through. She bought 3 books that I know of and never started 2 and didn't finish the other. Again, no follow through. All frustrating me more and more everyday.

 

She says she can't comunicate with me because of me, when all I want is her to talk. She says she cheated on me because of me, and all I want is monogamy. She says I treat her like her Mother, who she has many issues with. She says that because I do not agree with her on many of our issues because in her head they are all my fault. She takes me telling my side of the story, as belittling her opinion. That's not my intention. Anytime you dont agree with my wife, she registers that as you not being nice, or belittling her thoughts. Very Frustrating.

 

That brings me to this weekend, probably the final chapter in my marraige. Friday was my wifes birthday. I was so disengaged, making it very hard for be to be thoughtful. I called her at work and asked her to buy her present, because it could only be bought at her work with her discount. I know I could have done so much more. I was so checked out. I know thats no excuse but it is the truth. Anyway, that upset her, as well it should. She didn't come home after work and when she got home she put our son to bed and she didn't say a word and she started to get ready to go out. I wanted to talk to her and we started to fight. First real fight in a long time. It wasnt pretty. She left, came home, and didnt say a word. I didnt want to fight anymore so I didn't say anything either. I had to work Saturday and she told me she was going out on Saturday as well. Of course that upset me and we started to fight again. She changed her password to her phone account online during the day, so I checked it while she was out and she called HIM!!! She said she did it on purpose to piss me off. But that's not true. She said she knew i would see it. She changed her password that day, how on earth did she know I would see it. I recovered the password with a keylogger she didnt know about. Lies again. She's just mad she got caught. I texted her that night and informed her I knew about the phone call and she should proabably not come home. She stayed out allnight and came home the next day at 11:30am.

 

She actually had planned on staying there all day, and we were having a party with all of our friends. (A chili cookoff). I told her I did not want her there, seeing as I was very angry, and people were coming over. She said she would leave and she was taking our son.(He had alot of friends coming over for this party). This put me over the top, and I lost it. I threw the bag she was packing across the room, I kicked our vanity cabinet several times, and threw some items off of the countertop. I am very remorseful and hurt I made this decision. My wife said she was calling the cops and took her phone from her. She ran across the street to our friends house and called the cops from there. This situation really escalated quickly. The cops said if she wants to take our son she can whenever she wants until we have a court order.

 

My wife tends to make things way bigger than they are. I AM IN NO WAY DISCOUNTING WHAT I HAVE DONE!!! But she is using words like "that kind of environment" "I dont want to be a statistic". A little harsh considering I have never laid a hand on my wife or my son, even during this instance. What my wife saw was an incident, an incident fueled by her calling the man who I picture inside my wife everytime I look at her. It was months of pain and resentment turned inside out. Im not angry at work, Im not angry with my friends. Im angry when I look at my wife and see those visions. I would have no where near the trong emotionsof anger that I have had none of this happenend. She thinks I am an angry person, and in one context I am. I am angry my wife cant be who I need her to be. I am angry about the choices I have made concerning how to handle this. I dont know how. I do need help. My wife is gorgeous and beautiful, and we both screwed this up badly. Unfortunately Im the only one taking blame, from myself and her. She honestly feels like everything she has done is justified. Like it wouldnt have happened if I was a better husbaund.

 

Its all about thoughts and hurt feelngs. Thats it. We choose to allow our hurt feelings to portray a person that we may not be. We allow our hurt to pick away at our brains, so nothuing is ever good enough. Once a person hurts you, why is it so hard to forget? Why cant we learn when we are given this unbelievable chance to save our lives with our spouses. Why do we ignore the simplest of solutions. Because it is simple. Its all about hurt feelings and thoughts. If me or my wife could somehow learn how to not let our hurt skew our thoughts into something it is not. My wife came home, we should have taken this opportunity to save our lives, not continue down the same beaten path. When she says, we are just not right for eachother. How can that be true? We fell in love. We were smitten with eachother. We made a child. We got married. We certainly didnt do all of those things because we hate eachother. It all starts with communication. That first little hurtful thing that isnt talked about. If 2 people cant comunicate thats it. Thats where it starts. Start building your defensive walls from there folks. Do back what the other does to you. Why do people do that? I want my family, She doesnt. I said I didn't a couple of times when I was at the peak of my anger as well. Shes really mad at me for this weekend, as well she should be. But it was an incident, not a constant. Of course she wont tell you that, and now there is nothing I can do. Keep trucking like always.

 

Im glad to be back, and I will continue to post to this and many other posts with my expieriences. Thank you very much for listening.

[jesslindy]

I sent my wife a long e-mail today and I will post it below.

 

Hello Baby,

 

I have no idea where to start, so I'll just start. I Love You. You know that. You know I love you more than I ever have loved anything or anyone in my life. Except *****(my son) of course. I know your angry, and I am not typically one to beat myself up over things, but I have been over this. I cant even imagine how bad I hurt you and made you feel on Sunday morning. I am asking you to forgive me. I am asking for your forgiveness. I know its hard to do. I never thought I would be able to forgive you for sleeping with another man, but I have. I read a couple of books on the matter and felt I needed to forgive you so I could move on with my life. And then Bam you came back, and I was made to live with the visions of the woman I love with another man inside her. And as a man that is very hard for me to take. It has caused me the most pain I have ever felt. By far. Those visions compounded with the fact that you have never been truthful even when you have had every chance to, when it would have caused the least damage to me, you couldn't do it. And it was too much for me to take. And that was Sunday Morning. Sunday morning was an INCIDENT. Not an environment. If you really can see it for what it is, really concentrate on what I am trying to say. Sunday morning was an incident in which my anger boiled over to a point that no man should be pushed to. After you called Nathan Saturday night it all came back, the visions, the anger, the not-knowing, the guessing, the hurt, the pain, all at unconscionable levels. It was months of those things turned inside out. That's it. If I was truly that way you would have seen it long before now. You know that. I AM IN NO WAY DISCOUNTING WHAT HAPPENED ON SUNDAY!!! I am just trying to give you some insight into my head so you can understand me. Something neither one of us are good at.

 

For some reason I expected you to take some of my pain away, and maybe that is not possible. Maybe you are not capable, or unwilling I am not sure. But it sure feels like unwilling when the entire time you have been home you haven't read a book, apologized, or gave me anything I needed to hear. I just wanted an apology, and the truth. I couldn't get either from you. So in turn, and wrongly, I acted like a baby, a victim, that is something we do to each other. When you don't live up to my expectations, I act like a baby instead of talking to you about it. You do the same to me. For some reason we both expect each other to have the answers, and its obvious neither of us do. So why do we vilify each other for it? Instead of getting off of our behinds and making it happen. I truly believe that both of us will ruin every relationship we are in for the rest of our lives, if we don't handle our issues together. If we can't do it for each other, who can we do it for?

 

Thinking back to when we first met, how can we think we are not right for each other. We fell in deep love. We had fun. We made a child. We got married. We started a life. People who hate each other don't do those things. We act the way we do to each other because of our hurt feelings. When we were fine, we had no hurt feelings. When we were not so fine, we both had hurt feelings that we have no clue how to deal with. That's it. Its good feelings being reciprocated. How do we get there? I have some ideas. Its me loving you, so you can respect me, so I can love you, so you can respect me, so I can love you, so you can respect me, so I can Love you. And instead of either one of us starting that process, we both waited for each other. You continue to be secretive and lie to me, which I take as disrespect, so I decide not to show you how much I love you. That's it. I could have checked my feelings and continued to show my love for you even though I was reeling with hurt inside. Would that have made you finally tell me the truth? I guess we will never know at this point if you don't come home.

 

I know your angry, and you should be. I am angry too, and I should be. I would like to schedule a marraige retreat. I've looked into a few and the best one to me is about $1700.00. I will pay for it all. Some are just a couple of days, some are a week. I have already asked for the extra time off. It's important. I want to schedule this asap. We want it. Our family wants it. Dont make your decision based on your anger. We both, and all humans in the world, usually make the wrong decisions when they are angry. It is so easy to speak in absloute negatives when you are angry. Please don't do that to me again. I don't ever want to do it to you either. My anger keeps telling me to forget you as fast as possible, but I know thats not what I want. I want us to figure out how to be the loving, communicating, passionate, caring, people we both want to be for each other. You know I am the only man who loves you. You want to be loved? I want to love you. You want to be cared for? I want to care for you. You want to feel special? I want to make you feel special. The only man that can hug you and radiate love into you is me. Please come home and get some.

 

I love you immensely,

 

Jesse

 

 

 

 

That's it. This is now or never. We've done the seperation thing, we've been apart. That's not going to be possible again. Now is the most crucial time in our lives. We need to run toward each other, not away from each other. But it's up to her, and if past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, I am divorcing my wife. Tragic.

 

Thanks for listening

[jesslindy]

I just counted this up. 20 out of the 25 threads on the first page of this board are woman leaving their husbands and cheating. WTF!!! 80%!!!

 

Coincedence, Nope. Now that I think about it, everyone I know having problems in my life alone is about the same rate.

 

With odds like this, it is hard not to be bitter about future relationships. It seems like the chips are stacked up against you before you even start.

 

So sad.

[sumdude]

I just counted this up. 20 out of the 25 threads on the first page of this board are woman leaving their husbands and cheating. WTF!!! 80%!!!

 

Coincedence, Nope. Now that I think about it, everyone I know having problems in my life alone is about the same rate.

 

With odds like this, it is hard not to be bitter about future relationships. It seems like the chips are stacked up against you before you even start.

 

So sad.

 

I think the statistics are something like this..

 

50% of first marriages end in divorce

75% of divorces are instigated by women

 

I'm sure many women leave marriages that involve abuse etc.. But no one talks about men getting abused, emotionally or psychologically.. As if we're expected by society to 'shut up and take it like a man' and not be wussies about a woman getting to us. What BS... what we need to do is make sure we don't allow that treatment in the first place.

 

Strange how the tables turn in relationships... usually early in one the man is much more likely to pull away, be unsure about commitment. Then we make that big commitment, get married go about our lives taking the commitment for granted both ways perhaps. Hey we made a promise, a deal, a commitment right?

 

Suddenly wham! the tables turn. Now that they've got us for a while now they're not interested in us anymore. Now that there's no chase or being chased there's just not enough intrigue and excitement. Life isn't like those movies and paperbacks where it's this amazing 'in love' feeling all the time. Plus I think women are just better at concealing by acting. Look how many of us were in the dark for so long and then get hit with the locomotive out of the blue? Sure we weren't perfect husbands, guess what? They weren't perfect either. Yet we end up taking all the blame... used as the scapegoat.

 

I know there are men like this too, but not as many I think. Woimen tend to be led by their emotional sides more than men do.

 

So now we know to be very, very careful about future selections if we end up going there again. Maybe we just didn't want to see some of those red flags early on ... looked past them. There are good women out there. As you get older they get harder to find. Because once a guy gets one he's a lot less likely to let her go. Unless she's like us and been through the other side with a shmuck who effed up. No womder men like to date younger women, perhaps less jaded and easier to read.

 

Don't be bitter... sh** happens. Who knew... there were good times right? IF you could go back, are you sure you wouldn't have done it all over again anyway? Besides, it ain't over yet right?

 

Losing your head is the last thing you want to do right now. If you're sure about wanting her back I think she needs you to be strong, level headed and in charge. In charge of yourself, your boundaries and the rest, especially the jealousy. If you can't get over the OM then maybe you shouldn't be trying to fix this. You've shown your hand.. it's up to her now so back away and see what happens.

[redblack66]

I think the statistics are something like this..

 

50% of first marriages end in divorce

75% of divorces are instigated by women

 

I'm sure many women leave marriages that involve abuse etc.. But no one talks about men getting abused, emotionally or psychologically.. As if we're expected by society to 'shut up and take it like a man' and not be wussies about a woman getting to us. What BS... what we need to do is make sure we don't allow that treatment in the first place.

 

Strange how the tables turn in relationships... usually early in one the man is much more likely to pull away, be unsure about commitment. Then we make that big commitment, get married go about our lives taking the commitment for granted both ways perhaps. Hey we made a promise, a deal, a commitment right?

 

Suddenly wham! the tables turn. Now that they've got us for a while now they're not interested in us anymore. Now that there's no chase or being chased there's just not enough intrigue and excitement. Life isn't like those movies and paperbacks where it's this amazing 'in love' feeling all the time. Plus I think women are just better at concealing by acting. Look how many of us were in the dark for so long and then get hit with the locomotive out of the blue? Sure we weren't perfect husbands, guess what? They weren't perfect either. Yet we end up taking all the blame... used as the scapegoat.

 

I know there are men like this too, but not as many I think. Woimen tend to be led by their emotional sides more than men do.

 

So now we know to be very, very careful about future selections if we end up going there again. Maybe we just didn't want to see some of those red flags early on ... looked past them. There are good women out there. As you get older they get harder to find. Because once a guy gets one he's a lot less likely to let her go. Unless she's like us and been through the other side with a shmuck who effed up. No womder men like to date younger women, perhaps less jaded and easier to read.

 

Don't be bitter... sh** happens. Who knew... there were good times right? IF you could go back, are you sure you wouldn't have done it all over again anyway? Besides, it ain't over yet right?

 

Losing your head is the last thing you want to do right now. If you're sure about wanting her back I think she needs you to be strong, level headed and in charge. In charge of yourself, your boundaries and the rest, especially the jealousy. If you can't get over the OM then maybe you shouldn't be trying to fix this. You've shown your hand.. it's up to her now so back away and see what happens.

 

This is an EXCELLENT posting. Yes, we were not perfect, but they were part of the reason, right?

[Gunny376]

The rhetoric your wife is spewing is nothing more than double-speak?~

 

When a man cheats on his wife? Whose fault is it? His! When a woman cheats on her husband! Who's fault is it? His!

 

BS!

 

Are you listening to what she's saying here?

 

"I had an affair with another man because of you!"

 

"No Darling! You had an affair with another man because you choose to! Because you choose to step out of the marriage! Because you didn't have the nerve to confront the 900 pound gorrlia sitting on your chest. You choose to cheat because that was easier than dealing with your own insecurities, shortcomings, and issues that are going to follow you whereever you go.

 

I got the same speech. Women especially need to do their very best to degrade and belittle the men they cheat on. Men? For the most part just leave!

 

Women have collectively just about screwed the pooch. The divorce rate is down! But the reason its down? Is because fewer men are choosing to get married. Why should they? They've got everything to lose and virutally nothing to gain except sex, a carload of youngins, debt, and working theirselves into an early grave?

 

Sex? If you're a man and you want less sex? Get married. The single greatest known form of birth control? A wedding cake!

 

The guys that I know that are married? They're not happy. And they complain all the time about not getting sex. In fact most of them are working all the over-time or two jobs. All the guys I work with are working six days a week, except me? I work five days a week. That's because I don't care which two days I'm off in so long as I get to consequative days off ~ that's because I don't have a GF.

 

I really question what marriage is about for men? You get married and the sexual intimacy slides down a declining scale. If you satisfy yourself? Your in the dog house. If you watch porn or have porn? Your in the dog house. In you cheat your in the dog house. Its not only that they don't want you and don't anyone else to have you.

 

You get divorced, they come out smelling like roses for the most part, and you find yourself in a empty apartment on the backside of thirty?

 

I've climbed up the social-economic scale enough to I have more to offer 80% of the women out there, and the other 20% don't think I have enough to offer.

 

I read the posts here from men that are younger than I, and I think: "WTF! Get out! Run screaming from the house!"

 

I wasted 18-1/2 years on two different women and all I got out of it? Sex. All I've got to show for it? Sex.

 

Women know how women are ~ and they call them on their BS! I know? I used to work with a bunch of women in University Records back when I was in college.

 

NEVER AGAIN! Will I ever work with just women!

 

On the one hand: "Hey! How's your Mama! How have you been doing! That's the prettiest little girl I've ever seen!"

 

Soon as they walk out the door? "I can't stand that woman! You know that her husband's not that little girls father, don't you?" Yada, yada.

 

And, I'm not saying all women are bad nor like that ~ they're not. Some good people are women! There are some good women that are for real! They like good men AND good people in general few and far between and can be hard to find.

 

All I can say is that my wife leaving and divorcing me turned out to not be such a bad thing? I'm better off without her? I've got a low-stress ~ no stress job with a low stress ~ no stress boss and co-workers. I'm making more money than I know what to do with and more than I ever made in my life. Owe less money than I ever owed in my life. My out of pocket medical and dental? $50 deductiable ~ that's it? I've got the nut I've got to crack each month down to less than $1000.

 

My retirement check covers that.

 

XMAS? Simple! If my name isn't on your birth certificate? Don't expect anything! If it does? You're Happy Azz is getting the samething you got last year!

 

CASH!

 

Right size, right color, lifetime warranty, no batteries, you can exchange it anywhere for anything!~ Besides?

 

Its what you wanted anyway!

 

Being single isn't such a bad deal after all!

[LakesideDream]

Good to hear from you Guns' I thought of you a couple of days ago when I was down at the recruiting office dropping off a truck load for TFT's. I met a 29 year old Gunny! PHew, things have changed.

 

Well.. as for the thread. It's the 21st Century, the era of the Walk Away Wives.. things have changed for sure.

[Trialbyfire]

jesslindy, your wife is a victim personality. It's everyone else's fault for her personal choices in life. Let her go. She's not worth it. Let someone else handle her insecurities and her need for validation. You're better off without her.

[sumdude]

The rhetoric your wife is spewing is nothing more than double-speak?~

 

When a man cheats on his wife? Whose fault is it? His! When a woman cheats on her husband! Who's fault is it? His!

 

BS!

 

Are you listening to what she's saying here?

 

"I had an affair with another man because of you!"

 

 

I got the same speech. Women especially need to do their very best to degrade and belittle the men they cheat on. Men? For the most part just leave!

 

I heard the same speech more or less with no admission of an affair but reading between the lines? I think there's a script that some type of woman must be born with on thier DNA.

 

I heard the "I Love you not in love with you" the "I don't need any man in my life ever" the "I just have no sexual desire anymore anyway" etc etc.. Some people have to justify things they do and make sure that you feel as guilty as they need you to. Because once YOU start to believe what they feed you then it all must be true ... right?

 

I read the posts here from men that are younger than I, and I think: "WTF! Get out! Run screaming from the house!"

 

I know that 3 months into my separation, when the ex took the ring of my finger and said she was 'setting me free' (ha ha, setting herself free) after I told her don't worry about me I'll be fine. The next thing I said was " In our state we can be divorced after six months separation and I'll get the settlement started tomorrow."

 

Six months and a few days after she moved out the divorce was done.. as hard is it was emotionally and as much of that as I've shared on this forum... the sooner I decided to get 'er done the better. There was no going back. It was what she wanted and what my thinking mind said I needed to do. In my time I may have been a fool but I'm no idiot and had too much pride to beg. And I think she wanted me to.... more drama and self validation.

 

And, I'm not saying all women are bad nor like that ~ they're not. Some good people are women! There are some good women that are for real! They like good men AND good people in general few and far between and can be hard to find.

 

amen to that... I'm trying not to generalize here but these stories about the modern WAW are just becoming so eerily similar on this forum it's getting scary.. They should have a series on that Oxygen channel... forget desperate housewives...

 

Was wondering when we'd hear from ya Gunny!

 

Being single isn't such a bad deal after all!

 

Starting to remember that these days.

 

jl... marriage is like tennis. You just can't play when the other isn't playing with you. Hope it works out.

[abeliever]

Jesslindy,

 

I have tears:lmao: wow you can write your a$$ off! I sure hope she feels the content of your letter. I do wish it for you and her.

 

Not all women cheat as the other men say. I would never and have not ever. Yes I have also noticed a lot more threads of women vs men not sure why this has changed but we are not all the same. Just because my H chose to have an A I still didn'. I will be me and let no other change me for the worse. At least so far I have been that lucky.

 

Anyway, good luck. If she doesn't come home are you prepared to do the D? Or what is your next step? Make sure you have a plan, get yourself in order so when the emotions come, and you can't think that way you can do it automatically. Hate to see you loose more than your W and your living in a small apartment on a blow up bed. I know women can be ruthless in a D. So be prepared either way and take care of YOU.

 

Best of luck.

abeliever

[sumdude]

Not all women cheat as the other men say. I would never and have not ever. Yes I have also noticed a lot more threads of women vs men not sure why this has changed but we are not all the same. Just because my H chose to have an A I still didn'. I will be me and let no other change me for the worse. At least so far I have been that lucky.

 

 

abeliever

 

I don't believe all women cheat at all and have never said it... but the ones that do seem to have a lot in common. Half the threads about a wife cheating or suddenly leaving sound like they could have been written by the same man. Something is going on in our society with changes in gender roles and sexuality. I don't know if a lifetime marriage is a realistic expectation anymore or what.

 

I think everyione has times in thier lives when it seems like there might be something better, someone who is intriguing and appealing while your own partner seems to be on your nerves... then there's a choice to make. I never cheated on my W... if I ever marry again I can say I wouldn't do it then either.

 

I think deep down I'm still a believer too.

[jesslindy]

It's been a couple of days since I've posted.

 

It feels like back to square one. It feels like it did the first time she left. Except I am not sitting here waiting like a chump. I told my wife I love her, I will listen to her if she calls, but I am not waiting for a woman who refuses to stop acting like a baby. I love my wife dearly but I am not going to sit around. I would do anything to make my marraige work, and I mean anything, too bad I chose to marry such an unbelievably lost person. The fu****g nerve of some people, waltzing in and out of a good persons life, f*****g them over for life, or the next sixteen years when I can finally stop looking at this persons face.

 

I'm scared because when I see my wifes face it hurts so bad. I find myself using my anger to emotionally disconnect from her. I feel like the only way I can stop hurting is to hate her for not being my wife. I am such a passionate person, and its always all or nothing for me. I wish I had a switch like she does, where I can just shut off my love or feelings when I am hurt. When she hurts me I let it hurt. When I hurt her she stops and just exists. I am so sick of feeling anxiety in my stomach. Does she even feel these things??

 

I've gone semi no contact, its hard to do 100% for me, I have so many questions. She can't answer them anyway so why do I even ask? I am so mad. I am mad I met her, I am mad I have a child with her. I feel like I've wasted my shot. What now? New wife, different kids, two moms, step children, birthdays, holidays, other guys, other girls, resentment, pain, hate, 2 families. Seems like a bunch of dysfunction to me. I am so f******g pissed off. I don't see myself ever being able to look at my wife and even see a human again. I feel myself slowly drifting towards making myself hate her so I dont have to feel pain when I think about her, or see her.

 

I dont care if my wife reads this, because who cares. I could type anything and it would be used against me. She would say "How can you say you are mad you even met me, see your an a****le." Instead of saying, "I would like to understand why you feel that way, and stop doing what I have done to make you feel that way." "Maybe I should stop f******g other men. Maybe I should stop being a complete waste of time."

 

Back to the lawyers office. I called her and had her refile the paperwork. I can't do this anymore.

 

I feel myself going down a self-detructive road. I am going to sleep with another girl. I really think this would help me. If nothing else in some sick way, I can at least stop being mad at my wife for doing it to me. I can say to myself, cant be mad buddy you did it too. I think its in a completely different context, but still wrong none the less. But I dont care. Who knows, she could be doing it right now with another guy, and I don't care. I am truly tired of feeling the pain. It's been months on end. It needs to stop now. By any means necessary. I've read all the books, I tried to put it into practice. I feel I grew a hell of alot through this process.

 

But I still faltered when my wife couldnt be what I needed her to be. I acted like a baby, instead of putting into play all the things I had learned about how one person can affect the dynamic of a relationship. I put it all on her because I felt it was her play, and she has no capability of handling that responsbility. She proved that. I knew it going in, and I still did it. My wife needs ALOT of stroking, and I chose not to do it. Instead I waited for an apology, some form of words that would make me feel like she was home for me. Didn't happen. Oh well. I can't say I expected her to come through, she never has before.

 

Im sick of being lied to, Im sick of feeling pain. It stops now.

[redblack66]

I feel like I've wasted my shot. What now? New wife, different kids, two moms, step children, birthdays, holidays, other guys, other girls, resentment, pain, hate, 2 families.

 

Well, it is not so bad. Imagine new wife on top of 2 previous wifes.

One child (as I understood) plus ex wife is VERY manageable.

 

I feel myself going down a self-detructive road. I am going to sleep with another girl. I really think this would help me.

Actually, it could help you, just don't fall in love, because it is very easy at this stage in your life. Then you are in a mess.

 

Im sick of being lied to, Im sick of feeling pain. It stops now.

Go NC, seriously.

[Curmudgeon]

Im sick of being lied to, Im sick of feeling pain. It stops now.

 

She blames you for her cheating. How convenient. What's there to build on and even more, what's there to love?

 

I think it's time to cut your losses and move ahead with your life.

[Gunny376]

Per the movie "Risky Business" ~ sometimes in life? You've just got to say "What tha' f***?!" and go with what you've got?

 

Noone said this was easy ~ and noone said that it was going to fun. I realize your going through some of the worse emotional pain you've ever gone through in your life ~ and that's the "kicker" you're a man ~ and so you're un-accustomed to dealing with "emotions" (other than anger) which is why it seems that your wife is having an easier time of it? She's a woman ~ and women ~ (generally speaking) are much more in connection with their emotional core than men.

 

Soooooooo, when something like this comes along ~ women take it on the chin ~ while men are left drolling and babbling like little boys with their pants down around their ankles.

 

You need to ditch the anger ~ it only works against you. You need to forgive your wife ~ not for her sake but for your own. Once the anger takes hold ~ it GROWS big time. And it posions other aspects of your life and other relationships. If your not careful? You can find yourself walking through Life hating Life and everyone in it? Not cool!

 

And while you're at it? You need to ditch the other negative emotions.

 

A significant part of what you're going through pyschologically is that your self-confidence and self-esteem have taken a major hit in the rudder of your life? And now your rudder is jammed and your going around and around.

 

What truly amazes me about women that do cheat is that they seem to "trade-down" in the men that they cheat with? WTF? And, when they do that? It really messes a man's head up? For the Love of God! At least cheat on me with someone who's higher up the food chain than me?

 

But, nooooooooo they want to run off with their yoga instructor.

 

Personally? I don't see where for a man, marriage is all that and then some? The primarly thing men get out of marriage is, well sex.

 

But sex in marriage is like ordering one of those Civil War Chess sets? You'll get a "piece" about every four to six weeks? Even then you don't know what piece you'll will get? Nor what condition it will be in? But no matter what? You still have to pay the handling charge?

 

Compaionship? Naw! As soon as the children come along? You're playing second fiddle for Life! After she comes home from work and has talked to her Mother, her sisters, her best friend, and all her other friends? She might have time for you? But I seriously doubt it?

 

Most of the guys that I know that have "successful" marraiges? He's in the livingroom or the den watching the game on TV, and she's in the bedroom or the den watching Home and Garden? Talking to? Her Mother, sisters, best friend, other friends?

 

After my divorce? I noticed?

 

Guys that had never been married? They drove more than one nice car. Paid their bills on time. Lived in cool and nice places ~ had nice furniture, the "big-screen" plasma tv, wore "bling", clothes from the mall etc. They would date women for three, six, or twelve months and then move on to another woman. They came as they wanted, when they wanted, and didn't ask permission from anyone. And, they had pocketfulls of money?

 

As far as the "why?"

 

You might as well go and search for the "Holy Grail"

 

I'm seventeen years the otherside of where your at? All I ever got? Was that I was a "workahollic" and I had to change? But she never spelled out what I had to change?

 

Its not you! Its her that's FLAWED!

 

Now get you azz out there! Put a smile on your face! Rub a "little" sunshine on yourself!

 

Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be? Get your Happy~azz up out of bed this morning and decide to be happy!

[redblack66]

What truly amazes me about women that do cheat is that they seem to "trade-down" in the men that they cheat with? WTF? And, when they do that? It really messes a man's head up? For the Love of God! At least cheat on me with someone who's higher up the food chain than me?

 

I have been observing the same. Do you have any explanation? I feel this has something to do with low self esteem and insecurity.

I see life as a constant improvement, and no way I am going step down from a previous relation. The next person must be better overall, and not 5-10% better, but much more than that.

 

But, nooooooooo they want to run off with their yoga instructor.

Or their massage therapist. I have seen it.

 

I'm seventeen years the otherside of where your at? All I ever got? Was that I was a "workahollic" and I had to change? But she never spelled out what I had to change?

 

Its not you! Its her that's FLAWED!

After back to school, I realized that this is the reality. Generally, they just do not spell out what they want.

[lonelyandtired]

I have been observing the same. Do you have any explanation? I feel this has something to do with low self esteem and insecurity.

I see life as a constant improvement, and no way I am going step down from a previous relation. The next person must be better overall, and not 5-10% better, but much more than that.

 

Or their massage therapist. I have seen it.

 

After back to school, I realized that this is the reality. Generally, they just do not spell out what they want.

 

I've observed this happen with people I've known (I don't feel comfortable in making it too sweeping of a generalization, but anyway...). And I have a slightly different perspective.

 

For an example, I'll use my mother. When my parents divorced, she dated a lot of guys that were a "step down." Hell, she eventually married the worst of the lot.

 

Guys younger (much) than her, stupider than her, poorer than her. And I think it was kind of a control thing. She'd be the alpha in those situations, or at least the matriarch. Also, I think she had trouble relating to men that were her intellectual peers, she felt threatened. So I guess it is an inferiority complex to a degree, but just as much about control.

 

Does that make sense? Just my perspective.

 

But again, I don't think this is a big, generalized reason woman cheat or leave their spouses.

[redblack66]

I've observed this happen with people I've known (I don't feel comfortable in making it too sweeping of a generalization, but anyway...). And I have a slightly different perspective.

 

For an example, I'll use my mother. When my parents divorced, she dated a lot of guys that were a "step down." Hell, she eventually married the worst of the lot.

 

Guys younger (much) than her, stupider than her, poorer than her. And I think it was kind of a control thing.

VERY good point. The control thing has a lot to do with it. I think

control personality+self confidence does not result in dating worse than what you had.

 

Judging by my wife, she messed up with a guy that is younger, drinking problem, and some physical disability including memory loss due to a motorcycle accident. I think subconsciously she also wants to be the mother; she could not mother me.

 

She'd be the alpha in those situations, or at least the matriarch. Also, I think she had trouble relating to men that were her intellectual peers, she felt threatened. So I guess it is an inferiority complex to a degree, but just as much about control.

Straight to the point! Same is my STBX.

 

Does that make sense? Just my perspective.

But again, I don't think this is a big, generalized reason woman cheat or leave their spouses.

Sure.

 

Now, what is the root of the inferiority complex. The more I think, the more I have to agree with Sigmund Freud that it has to do with sexual insecurity. Where it comes from: I guess family environment when growing up, and brain function somehow. I am no doctor, so I do not know. I am talking from intuition and experience.

[jesslindy]

On the trading down subject. In my first thread I touched on it a little bit. The guy she slept with is so far below me on any scale. I'm a sales manager for a 130 million dollar company, I almost cleared 6 figures this year, Nice stuff, pretty good looking(so I am told). Not to mention that WE have a FAMILY. A wonderful child. And I want all of those things to work so we can be happy together.

 

This guy is with some girl, they have kids in some form or fashion, in a s**thole house, hes not married to her, hes in a dead end job, low pay, and on top of all that hes a scaredycat bi*ch!! I called him the night that she did in a fit of rage. The night before the showdown. He finally picked up his phone and sat on the other end like a little girl listening to how if he ever talked to my wife again I would pummel his face in. All he could say was "calm down man, she doesnt mean anything to me." "I'm not interested." What a pu**y. I guess there perfect for eachother, a couple of scaredycat cheaters and liars.

 

I also want to touch on something I said in my last post. I don't know how to do the quote thing so Ill just cut and paste it below.

 

******************************************************

 

I feel myself going down a self-detructive road. I am going to sleep with another girl. I really think this would help me. If nothing else in some sick way, I can at least stop being mad at my wife for doing it to me. I can say to myself, cant be mad buddy you did it too. I think its in a completely different context, but still wrong none the less. But I dont care. Who knows, she could be doing it right now with another guy, and I don't care. I am truly tired of feeling the pain. It's been months on end. It needs to stop now. By any means necessary. I've read all the books, I tried to put it into practice. I feel I grew a hell of alot through this process.

 

*******************************************************

 

I decided that would be a bad idea. This girl that I used to see briefly about a year before I met my wife, heard about my problems with my wife, and she started calling and texting me. I can't believe she still had my number. I've had the same cell number for years.

Anyway, she wants to hook up, and it would be a bad idea. She would definatly want a relationship of some sort and I can't do that. I have called and texted her back but nothing more. Shes hot and all, and some lovin would be nice. I remember it well. But it is still the wrong thing to do in my eyes. I do think it would be helpful in the context of moving on, but I've spent all this time working on myself and now I am going to go and do something I would despise? That doesn't make sense to me. What do you think??

 

Because at the end of the day I want my family to work. I know that sounds crazy but I do. How would sleeping with another woman help? I know what some of you hard cores are thinking. Why on earth would he want to be with this girl? He can't fix himself for her, at least not yet anyway. She obviously doesnt sound like she can do anything positive for him either. I know. Its crazy. But I truly beleive that the fixed versions of ourselves with our son are unstoppable. Is it possible? Not likely, but I am not going to my grave with the fact that I didn't do everything possible to keep my family together. I don't feel that we have. Maybe she does. In fact I know she does. But she is speaking in absolutes, that's what she does when she's hurt. I've done it to. I don't blame her. She has done this before, I know full well what it's all about to be separated from this girl.

[redblack66]

I have a simple suggestion, as I was a few months ago more or less where you are now. Go to the bookstore and pick up some books and read, read...

Try not to think about the wife at the moment. I know this is incredibly difficult.

[Gunny376]

Well first you're going to need to get your head on straight. And I realize that this is probally one of, if not the most confussing states that you've ever found yourself in.

 

But, one day thinking about hooking up with an old flane and the next talking about getting back with the wife and keeping your family together are two oppossite end and goals ~ are they not?

 

With that in mind ~ I would recommend that you go down to the local public library and check and read every self-help book they have, along with books about women, marriage, relationships etc that you believe might be applicapble to your situaton (if you come across any you want to own permantently ~ you can always go to a bookstore or order it second hand on line )

 

Being a sales-manager of a multi-million dollar company means your already under a lot of stress. And, from your postings? I'm gathering that your not getting enough physical exercise/activity in your life? If you are a member of a gym, or already have an exercise routine? Then you need to ramp it up a bit. You might want to check into getting a personal trainier ~ perhaps check into some of the "bootcamp" programs popping up around the country. This is crucial in handling and dealing with your job and marital stress. You absolutely cannot afford to neglect this. You need this not only for your physical fitness, but your emotional and mental well being as well.

 

When I was going through this ~ my X-Hex and I had one of, if not the worse "blow-outs" arguments of our marriage? My last words to her at the time? "F**k this! I'm going for my 'run!" I was so pissed off!

 

I normally did some strecthing exercises, my "Daily Seven" (Calistinics ~ Seven different exercises ~ pullups, situps, 'mountain-climbers', 'bends and thrusts' etc X 8 to 15 counts with rest periods of 60 seconds in between), and then I would do a three to five mile run.

 

I was so PO that day, I ran like Forrest Gump! I got back completetly exhausted I realized I had gone for a long, long run!? I got in my car and re-set the mile reader and was astounded that I had ran ten miles!!!!!

 

But all the anger, the hurt, the negative emotions? Were gone! :eek:

 

It didn't change anything in the long run ~ but I learned how to cope and deal with the stress.

 

If you're not already? You might want to look into finding an IC or Pyschologist.

 

A word of caution? You've got to shop around? They have the same divorce statistics as the rest of us? And, some of them need to be on the couch more than you? At the very least? You should "interview" at least three.

Even then? You may have to "shop" until you find one that you can relate to and with and build repoir with? This is also the time that you might want to discuss some of those books you've been reading? Remeber? They're working for you! Not you working for them?

 

Try and stay off the meds if you can. Most people that are on AD's need to get off the couch and go and get a good workout. They need to sweat it out! Instead of sitting around the house all day counting their troubles and sorrows!

 

If that's not working for you? Before taking meds try taking the natural stuff, that you can get over-the-counter. St. John's Wart (for depression) and melatonin (sleep aid)

 

What you need to be working on right now? Is identifying your weakness (on any and all levels and aspects of your life ~ not just in regards to your wife?) and seeking to overcome them.

 

You need to be working on you! Mentally, physically, emotionally, and if it works for you? Spiritually ~ but do it for you and no one else. Don't do it as a means to and end?

 

Now is the time for you take up skydiving, mountain climbing, rock collecting ~ whatever. To delve into those interest that you never had time before because you were married? Had obligations and responsiblities.

 

Now is the time to get busy getting busy living your life for yourself!

 

However? If you want to absolutely ruin any chance of reconcilation with your wife? Hound her to the ends of the Earth! Call her every twenty minutes! Send her thousands of dollars worth of cards, letters, and flowers! Beg and plead like a little boy with his pants down around his legs? Act like a little boy? She'll treat you like one!

 

The thing thatets me about you JL? You're a Sales Manager damnit! You know what it takes to make a sale!

 

Perhaps its been so long that you were on the bottom rung, that you've forgotten?

 

1. Meet and greet!

 

2. Quailify?

 

3. Feature and benefit

 

4. Overcome objections

 

5. Close

 

As a sales manager ~ you know that you've got to build confidence in the sale and value!

 

It seems to me that what the DW has is a case of "Buyer's Remorse" You sold her? But, you didn't deliver after the "close"

 

So, what do you do? You start over at the "Beginning" and follow each and everyone of the steps! Leaving "no stone un-turned"

 

Finally?

 

You simply cannot make it happen! You've got to let it happen!

 

You want your wife and family back? Let them go! Freefall! Take a "leap of faith" and just fall back into the abysss!

 

Just concentrate on being the best "me" that you can be! And that includes "D" ~ all of the above ~ the best person! The best Man! The best Father! The best "human being"

 

Treat all others with "civiliaty and resepect" because "But before the "Grace of God? There go I!"

[jesslindy]

Thanks Guns, Its always good to hear from you.

 

Haven't talked to the wife in about a week. New years was tough. I'm so glad the holidays are over. First time I haven't kissed my wife on New years in a long time. Kinda sucked. But I am very proud of myself I didn't drunk dial her on the king of all drunk dial nights. Maybe I'm a little more disconnected than I thought.

 

I do have some very weird constant feelings this time though. I don't know how else to say this, but my life feels like a video game. Nothing seems real. I'm keeping busy and all, spending time with friends and my son, but it just feels like nothing is real. I don't find myself thinking a whole lot about "her" for example. Last time I obviously thought about it and her constantly. This time, just kind of existing. Feels like, ok sign the papers, split up the stuff, have a nice life, I'll figure a way out of this deal. It's like Im moping, but I'm not. I'm active, working hard, things like that. But these last few weeks when I picture what I look like from the outside, it feels like I'm moping. But I'm not. I dont get it.

 

As far as my emotions about my wife and what I want. Thats hard. I find myself going back and forth. Probably not a good sign that I truly want to fix this. The reason being is, shes not here. If she was here it would be different. Some days could care less if I ever saw her again, some days want nothing more than to hold her. Last time, not being with her was the last thing on my mind. Thats all I wanted. This time, not the case. Don't get me wrong, I do feel that marraiges are not suppossed to break up in cases like mine. Sure you have your obvious beating, drugs and stuff like that that should end abruptly. But two people who are not co-dependant, that love eachother alot, with a child that they love alot, and all that can't figure a marraige out. Seems crazy to me. But I have let go. I do not feel the urge to call her at all, I do not feel the urge to really even speak to her at all right now. I do love her, and I would talk to her if she wanted, but I am on my way. I've done this before, it took alot less time to get to this point this time.

[jesslindy]

I feel stuck. I want to go backwards and I want to go forward. I want to sleep until this is all over. This is so unlike me, I usually welcome the pain, use it to grow. I want to shut down. I want to forget. I want to disconnect. I feel stoned. I've never felt so inadequate in my life. She makes me feel so inadequate. I know I am not, but how else should I feel? The woman I chose to start a family with doesn't want it. Or maybe she does and this is round 2. I talked real tough last time she came home, how it was going to be a hard and narrow road for her. She came home and I folded. Just happy to have my wife back. No accountability, no remorse, no apologies. Look where that got me. Look where all the learning and growing got me. Back to square one. F**k this. There are plenty of women right now that would be happy to have me. I know this.

 

My wife said the other day, "I want a family and more children, but it cant happen with you." Like I'm the one causing this issue. Like when the next poor sap impregnates her and he pisses her off a few times. Goodnight buddy!!! You're done.

 

You would think with all my traits and the fact that I am willing to do anything to be happily married with my wife, (along with her changes as well), would be enough. You know how many people get left and decide to do nothing? Decide to act self-desructively? Decide to hurt the other person on purpose? I am the man she fell in love with and started a family with, and me saying and showing, "I want to be the person you need me to be.", isn't good enough??? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

She said my actions are louder than my words. She couldnt be more right. But I ask you? When she came home she said she had SEEN changes in me. She said she NOTICED changes. But all thats gone because I found out my wife was still calling and texting OM almost half the time she was home, and expected me not to be hurt and angry?? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the same breath she said "I want our marraige", and than turned around and texted her OM 35 times in one day. Every time I text her at work shes too busy.

 

Talk about actions louder than words. Heres her list. And I knew it the whole time, which is why it was very hard for me to keep this process going.

 

"We are suppossed to be together"

"I am going to surprise you"

"I want our marraige and family to work"

"I will do anything"

 

 

What those four stamtements got me was

 

1. No apology

2. She brought three books home and two went into a cabinet and 1 got started to the fifth chapter and stopped.

3. She called and texted OM for a month after she got home. Another month almost on her work number.

4. When I asked her to speak about her feelings toward me when I had expressed my concerns, I got "maybe later" or "tommorrow night" and than left it up to her and got NOTHING.

5. Her going to therapy and talking about ME!!! WTF!!!!

6. Her acting like its my problem alone that she cheated on me.

7. Actually expecting me to be her rock, when every day she came home she disrespected me by lying and being secretive.

 

And the list could go on forever. But it doesnt matter. Ill go on feeling helpless until it stops. I dont even know why I expend energy on it, she isnt. And if she is I wouldnt know. She asked me to send her a list of my questions in an e-mail because she said I have too many questions and that is "emotional bullying" in person. Thats had to come from her therapist or a friend. If it did, what kind of help is she getting if a therapist would let her sit in there and blame me instead of kicking her in the ass. That e-mail I sent was over a week ago. No reply. I figured anyway. I expected no answer. So it shouldnt hurt right? Still does.

 

I've gone no contact for a week. I am very confident I can from this point forward. Whatever. Thanks for listening.

[jesslindy]

I booked a two day trip to Vegas today. That's where I married my wife. I am going to go sit in front of the place that I married my wife and probably cry a little bit. Might write down some stuff, if for nothing else just to write it down. I am kind of a ritualistic person. I need a "ceremony" if you will.

 

Than I am going to play some cards all night for two days and hopefully win some money. I am going by myself. I've been there a ton of times, but never by myself. I think it will feel real good to get away by myself and just reflect over the absolute shi**iest 6 months of my life. And I've had some real shi**y times to reflect upon before.

 

Disconnecting, one day at a time. This should really help. I hope so.

[jesslindy]

Hello All,

 

Today is the first day of the rest of my life. I have come to terms with how my life will be from this point forward. It is not my first choice obviously, but I am not dragging myself down over it.

 

I had a sick crying fit last night. I cried so hard that it hurt. I let loose. I f'ing cried HARD!!!!! It was great.

 

Heres the deal, I have come to terms that my wife doesnt love me the way I love her. I now understand that I am worth much more than my wife makes me feel. I deserve a dyme piece that will do me right everyday, and allow me to do the same to her.

 

I am going to live my life with no fear. I am no longer afraid of what my life holds going forward. I am a f*****g mountain. I have reached a point of indifference in my feelings toward my wife.

 

I will not allow my anxiety and depression over this situation to bring me down any longer. I am fearless of what my life holds. I could die tomorrow a happy man. As Gunny would say, I'm 5 x 5 and 6 x 6. Today is the point I start to charge ahead. Today is the point that I "get busy livin".

 

At the end of the day, these are the facts:

 

I will not tolerate my wife lying to me and cheating me my life any longer.

 

I have been disrespected in the worst way a man can be, and I am no longer angry about that, I'm glad it happened.

 

My wife does not have the capability to be the woman I need her to be, that has been proven, and I deserve better. I will find it.

 

My wife doesnt love me the way that I love her and that is no longer acceptable to me.

 

I will not let the fact that my wife lays the fall of this marraige at my feet to make me angry any longer. I have the capability of being the best man any woman can dream of. And I will do so.

 

Although I still do feel that my marraige should not break up, I now know that it has to be done. And it is not my fault. Yes I am flawed, but I have done nothing to deserve this tragic situation, especially in regards to my beautiful son.

 

My wife runs from me every chance she gets, and I now know that will be the case for the rest of my life. I deserve better. I will find it.

 

Obviously the ideal situation is for both of us to pull our heads out of our asses, (which I beleive that I am doing), and make this work. Because I DO LOVE MY WIFE!!! This is not a cliche. I love my wife more than any man loves their wife on this planet. That is the truth. But it takes two to tango, and if not my wife than I am dancing at the ball with someone else.

 

Thats it, plain and simple. Today is the first day of the rest of my life.