What goes around comes around

[Tomcat33]

For the purpose of what we are discussing here in this forum and for what some people offer as advice to people involved in affairs, "Karma" is used ad nauseam and it's like getting the death card in a tarot reading, the ultimate doom you should be ware of.

Basically let your life be ruled by fear because you took one wrong turn?

I don't buy it at all sorry. Well I do see that if you live your life in fear of doom nothing but doom will come your way

 

I had no fear and didn't think about getting my due at all. But when certain things happen, I know where it is coming from afterwards...it dawns on me...oh crap I better duck here comes karma.

 

I am a positive person and karma isn't negative always.....but stay on the wrong path and you will see yourself again...except you'll be on the receiving end.

 

I understand what you are saying 3rdI (love the name by the way very original and whitty) and one can be a very positive person, I have met some pretty selfish self centered pollyanas in my life that pretty much lived their life as if the whole world revolved around them but always with a smile from ear to ear and a positive outlook on everything.

They did not care who's head they stepped on to get ahead in life or who's throat they had to slit.

 

I personally don't think it's enough to be positive you have to live positively as well. Drawing good energy your way is also not doing harm onto others...if you actively seeked out situations that were harmful to you or others I don't see how that is drawing positive energy your way, even if it felt somewhat good at the time, deep down you knew you were doing something that was not all that good, correct? Or were you completely blind to it at the time?

 

,

[3rdI]

Thanks. I do have a 3rdI and always have. My dreams are prophetic as well. It is moderate to strong in that I can't always see everything and most visions are murky for my personal self, but very clear with others.

 

I draw others to me and I have a very good life, unusually good and positive. My energy is a high positive. My life was never bad, its just that I was doing bad things, didn't think about it at the time I was doing it and felt amoral.

 

My life is great now, but personally I have sullied and been sullied. When it happens I always know why and accept it because I was bound to see it again.

 

TO OTHERS: How do you choose to be remembered? Will it bother you when your grandchildren hear stories about how gmother and gfather got together? Will you be proud to tell them? What if you are alone because you spent your most productive years with someone that was publicly and legally bound to someone else?

[OWoman]

TO OTHERS: How do you choose to be remembered? Will it bother you when your grandchildren hear stories about how gmother and gfather got together? Will you be proud to tell them? What if you are alone because you spent your most productive years with someone that was publicly and legally bound to someone else?

 

My kids and his kids are all teens, and know what the score is. My kids think it's kinda sweet that their mother - their MOTHER, ffs - has fallen in love and found some dude that thinks she's great. His kids have long been unhappy and are hopeful that our getting together provides a happier alternative, though are realistic enough to realise that there will be lots of tears along the way.

 

His family are relieved that he's leaving his abusive W and cautiously optimistic about us getting together (I get on well with all of them) though they're worried that he might move away to my country.

 

Our friends and colleagues are all thrilled that it's finally coming together.

 

How will we be remembered? As the couple who finally gave in to what the Universe had been trying to tell them for ages, and admitted they were in love with each other and got together...

[frannie]

I was formerly the OW. My first boyfriend was a married man and I had other married lovers. I was terrible and even told a wife or two about the husband and his activities. BUT I reformed and have not "knowingly" dated a married man for many years.

 

Both of my children were with married men.

 

NOW fast forward many years and I am on the other side of the sh**pile. I was engaged and soon to be married when he cheated.

 

It helped me make quick decisons because I knew what he was telling her and the games that he was playing. However, I can't help but think about how I was a terrible smug humdinger that felt if you couldn't keep your man home that it was YOUR problem.

 

Now the shoe is on the other foot. I never thought about this when I was with my exMM's (yes plural).

 

Question: How are you going to be remembered? Will you be fond of these memories when you are old and gray? Do you believe that your comeuppance is near?

 

I never thought that this would happen to me and I wish that I had never had affairs with married men. Any thoughts?

 

TO OTHERS: How do you choose to be remembered? Will it bother you when your grandchildren hear stories about how gmother and gfather got together? Will you be proud to tell them? What if you are alone because you spent your most productive years with someone that was publicly and legally bound to someone else?

 

I think people tell themselves stories (narratives, not fairy stories) in order to make sense of the world. Somehow, despite your images of yourself as having prophetic dreams, the esoteric 'Third Eye' name and so on you feel that you deserved what happened to you when your fiance cheated on you. Now you can couch that in any terms, and make any story of it you like: you choose the 'karma' story, and there you have it, a tale of a woman who behaved badly in the past and it all caught up with her, deservedly so. A bit like a Hollywood movie of the 'bad things happen to bad people' and 'justice will out' type.

 

But you could have looked at it a different way. How about this interpretation: your past experience with MM taught you a valuable lesson about how men like your fiance lead OW on, and enabled you to see through his lies and kick him to the kerb in short order. Hence saving yourself a bad marriage and much future unhappiness. Same situation, different interpretation, different script. You choose which you want to believe.

 

How I am remembered is up to other people, their prejudices, personalities and the stories THEY tell themselves. Hence, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[luvmy2ns]

It seems that those putting down your karma theory are OWs. Go figure.

 

While it's true that the more positively you live your life the more positive rewards you will reap, it's also true, I feel, that if you live very positively while screwing others (not literally, but figuratively) along the way, you're eventually going to get what's coming to you as a result.

 

As for how you want to be remembered, yes - that has absolutely EVERYTHING with your behavior as a human being. It's certainly not restricted to people's perception. I mean, on a totally different but obvious level, I'm sure everyone can agree that it's not just our perception that Jeffrey Dahmer was a vicious, brutal, sadistic prick. He was. So while being a person who constantly sleeps with married folks may be okay in some people's perception (mostly the person sleeping with the married folks, to be sure), in most people's perception, that's not an okay thing to do. If you choose to not give a flying rat's ass about that, that's certainly your prerogative.

[serial muse]

But you could have looked at it a different way. How about this interpretation: your past experience with MM taught you a valuable lesson about how men like your fiance lead OW on, and enabled you to see through his lies and kick him to the kerb in short order. Hence saving yourself a bad marriage and much future unhappiness. Same situation, different interpretation, different script. You choose which you want to believe.

 

How I am remembered is up to other people, their prejudices, personalities and the stories THEY tell themselves. Hence, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

I'm inclined to agree with frannie. For one thing, as a BS, I don't feel like I deserved to get hit by the karma bus. Actually, I find the concept of karma kind of exhausting - I mean seriously, the punch/counterpunch business just never ends!

 

But seriously, I think the most important thing is that you feel like you've grown and become someone you're happier being, and you've learned how to safeguard yourself against someone like your ex and your exMM. I think I learned a similar lesson, in a way - but I think it's possible to accept that new understanding without attaching guilt to it. However it happened, I'm happy for you that you're free of him now.

[OWoman]

It seems that those putting down your karma theory are OWs. Go figure.

 

Karma cuts both ways. If you want to argue karma, you set yourself up for the argument that BW had it coming to them for stuff they'd done to deserve it, so their WS was merely playing out his destiny and dealing her what she was due.

 

You wanna believe that, go ahead. Some of us prefer to think we have agency in this life, that we exercise choices and deal with the consequences.

[luvmy2ns]

I'm sure there's a happy balance to be struck between not murdering people, and living a life in fear of other people's expectations and disappointments... it's where most sane folks live.

 

Ummm, as I'm sure most folks who can use a computer can also read a post in it's entirety. I said on a completely different level. I was just making the point that it's not JUST people's perception, but a person's behavior which makes them a jackass or not. Was that more easily spelled out that time? I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently you need more of an explanation. I'm sure the "happy balance" is found in refusing to acknowledge your wrongdoings as well and placing the blame on someone's perception.

[frannie]

Ummm, as I'm sure most folks who can use a computer can also read a post in it's entirety. I said on a completely different level. I was just making the point that it's not JUST people's perception, but a person's behavior which makes them a jackass or not. Was that more easily spelled out that time? I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently you need more of an explanation. I'm sure the "happy balance" is found in refusing to acknowledge your wrongdoings as well and placing the blame on someone's perception.

 

And in some people's eyes, muderers are heroes and a life of crime is something to aspire to. Does that make it any more right or wrong? It is a question of perception, because it is human judgements that make people 'jackasses' or not. If cheating were condoned by the majority would you change your mind on its advisability as a course of action? Or do you prefer to make up your own mind, and live life according to what you think is right or wrong action?

[OWoman]

I was just making the point that it's not JUST people's perception, but a person's behavior which makes them a jackass or not.

 

Lots of people think Bush is a jackass for invading Iraq. Lots of others don't.

 

Judged on his behaviour alone, rather than perceptions of it, is he a jackass or not?

[NoIDidn't]

It is a question of perception, because it is human judgements that make people 'jackasses' or not.

 

I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with this statement. It defies logic and only attempts to prove a fallacy.

 

Is the perception that a rapist is a bad person because he raped someone so bad? Is it just the person's perception that they were raped and did not agree to it a bad perception? How about the person that promised you something and didn't deliver on it for whatever reason? Does that action or inaction change how you perceive that person? Or do you put your head in the sand and choose to believe what you want to believe and not what is plainly in front of you (their actions)?

 

I can agree that judgments are based on perceptions. But perceptions are based on behavior. You just can't have one without the other. Some people are jackasses whether we perceive them to be or not.

[frannie]

I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with this statement. It defies logic and only attempts to prove a fallacy.

 

Is the perception that a rapist is a bad person because he raped someone so bad? Is it just the person's perception that they were raped and did not agree to it a bad perception? How about the person that promised you something and didn't deliver on it for whatever reason? Does that action or inaction change how you perceive that person? Or do you put your head in the sand and choose to believe what you want to believe and not what is plainly in front of you (their actions)?

 

I can agree that judgments are based on perceptions. But perceptions are based on behavior. You just can't have one without the other. Some people are jackasses whether we perceive them to be or not.

 

"Is the perception that a rapist is a bad person because he raped someone so bad?"

 

Not to argue this to irrelevancy, but a perception is still a perception is still a perception, even if 100% of people believe exactly the same thing.

 

Incidentally, to get this in the context of the debate, I am of the opinion that cheating isn't a good thing to do. Neither is being involved with someone who's cheating. But I change my behaviour based on MY perceptions of what is right and wrong, not someone else's. So to go back to the original question: how do I want to be remembered: I don't really care, since that's about other people's perceptions of me. Which they're completely free to have, and I'm not going to say they're 'wrong'... I'm just not concerned with them, and won't base my actions on those perceptions.

 

Hope that's all clear.

[NoIDidn't]

"Is the perception that a rapist is a bad person because he raped someone so bad?"

 

Not to argue this to irrelevancy, but a perception is still a perception is still a perception, even if 100% of people believe exactly the same thing.

 

Incidentally, to get this in the context of the debate, I am of the opinion that cheating isn't a good thing to do. Neither is being involved with someone who's cheating. But I change my behaviour based on MY perceptions of what is right and wrong, not someone else's. So to go back to the original question: how do I want to be remembered: I don't really care, since that's about other people's perceptions of me. Which they're completely free to have, and I'm not going to say they're 'wrong'... I'm just not concerned with them, and won't base my actions on those perceptions.

 

Hope that's all clear.

 

Of course, not to argue this to irrelevancy (as you said), the quoted post is completely different from what I responded to the first time.

 

Its true that we have our own perceptions of our actions, but that doesn't change the fact that perceptions don't occur in a vacuum. Which is what it appeared that you were saying the first time. People don't pull perceptions out of thin air. Its based on their experiences with and observations of you (and your actions/revealed thoughts).

 

You are right that people are entitled to think what they wish of you, but its not correct to say that your actions had nothing to do with it. Be their perceptions right or wrong, you still did something for them to feel that way (in most cases).

 

But I get what you meant, even though it really wasn't what you said.

[luvmy2ns]

Lots of people think Bush is a jackass for invading Iraq. Lots of others don't.

 

Judged on his behaviour alone, rather than perceptions of it, is he a jackass or not?

 

TOTAL Jackass!

[OWoman]

TOTAL Jackass!

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[underpants]

This thread has given me some ideas.

 

Sometimes it is fun to play the role of karma enforcer. Easy when you are not invested either way.

[luvmy2ns]

This thread has given me some ideas.

 

Sometimes it is fun to play the role of karma enforcer. Easy when you are not invested either way.

 

Oh, hell yeah. It was the "karma enforcer" at work when the lazy receptionist in my office was "discovered" sleeping on the job, leaving me with not only the work I had to do for my four attorneys, but all the incoming phone calls she was supposed to be fielding when all but two of us were away at the yearly all staff meeting.

[GreenEyedLady]

This thread has given me some ideas.

 

Sometimes it is fun to play the role of karma enforcer. Easy when you are not invested either way.

 

Kinda funny that you use the term "karma enforcer"...

 

If you believe in Karma, what comes around goes around, so be careful, it'll come back to you...

[luvmy2ns]

If the receptionist wasn't such a self serving, lazy beeyotch, the "karma enforcer" would have been on a break. Her selfishness and her laziness on the job garnered her a come around.

 

Yes, it's true. Sometimes karma needs a little push, and when someone is a selfish, lazy a$$, I'm more than happy to be the "karma enforcer."

[bish]

NOW fast forward many years and I am on the other side of the sh**pile. I was engaged and soon to be married when he cheated.

 

It helped me make quick decisons because I knew what he was telling her and the games that he was playing. However, I can't help but think about how I was a terrible smug humdinger that felt if you couldn't keep your man home that it was YOUR problem.

 

Well at least you admit it and see how lousy an attitude it was to have.

 

 

Question: How are you going to be remembered?

 

I doubt they care....thats the way they are.

 

Will you be fond of these memories when you are old and gray? Do you believe that your comeuppance is near?

 

I think most of them will be fond of their memories and victories over the betrayed spouses in their wake.

 

I never thought that this would happen to me and I wish that I had never had affairs with married men. Any thoughts?

 

so how do you see the "other woman" now that you are on the betrayed side?

[3rdI]

so how do you see the "other woman" now that you are on the betrayed side?

 

 

I see them as lacking important components of moral and emotional maturity. I feel like a piece of a man is only good for a piece of a woman.

 

It's easy to have a illicit affair. It is difficult to face the same person day-in, day-out and still love them to the Nth degree. Neither the OW or MM is required to do this in an affair.

 

I have many other thoughts but these are what I care to discuss right now.

[Tomcat33]

I think most of them will be fond of their memories and victories over the betrayed spouses in their wake.

 

 

 

 

 

Gees I didn't think dead people had the capacity to have memories and reminise on vitories when they are dead.

[OWoman]

It is difficult to face the same person day-in, day-out and still love them to the Nth degree. Neither the OW or MM is required to do this in an affair.

 

That depends on that nature of the A. I've had As where that wasn't the case, where it was all sunshine and roses, but current R with current MM involves exactly the day-in, day-out stuff for long periods at a time.

[White Flower]

I happen to believe in Karma. I did believe when I was younger that you get what you get...that's why I was cuttin up without regard for what others thought about me.

 

The laws of the universe are that we are all interconnected and all ultimately responsible to each other. Not for each other but to each other.

 

We cannot act in abstract.

 

I maintain that what goes around comes around.

Since you believe in Karma, do you believe in reincarnation? What goes around could come around in the next life instead of this one...

[White Flower]

Karma is just our tarnished subconsience speaking, if we think we deserve to pay for something then guess what? we will pay, because a lot of what comes our way is energy that we put out to attract.

 

I've had very crappy things happen to me in my past and I was half the person I am today, I had far less experience and was just starting out in life with somewhat naive attitudes and never intentionally done anything that could potentioally hurt others. And? I was dealt crap to have to go through anyway, I didn't deserve it I certainly wasn't paying for my past but I had to deal with it anyway.

 

It's as GEL said, you get what you get.

 

I have learned to call positive energy my way and it took a lot to master this but I did, the rest is up to destiny, life works in cycles you can't go up unless you go down. When life gives you and up swing enjoy it because if there is one thing for sure NOTHING lasts forever.

 

Is Karma what you pay for your past mistakes or is it simply life doing what it should?

 

Karma is for those who want to live in a constant state of fear.

Well, it depends on your definition of Karma. Othewise, I completely agree with everything else you said:laugh: