Sexless in Seattle?

[Deanster]

Hi all - I'm posting this spontaneously - I'm honestly not sure it's a good idea, but here goes...

 

I was just posting in yet another sexless/passionless marriage thread, and discussing the issue of support. I have a significant problem looking for/asking for/finding a place to feel supported in living with my sexless marriage. It's a hard thing to discuss, and the complexities of living with and dealing with it are challenging.

 

Just FYI, I'm 36, male, professional married 13 years, 2 kids in elementary school, I'm settled into my marriage, no plans to leave, but struggling with the notion of being in a sexless/passionless marriage 'for the rest of my days'. Outside the sex/intimacy area, things are actually very good. We've got an outstanding 'partnership' that works very well. But not much in the way of warmth, or physical contact, and I feel the sense of rejection and lack very strongly.

 

Whaddaya think?

[ElvenPriestess]

Well I just came from Seattle 6 months ago before I left the country. I really like it there. But anyways, I think it goes back to that old idea of "spark." And I understand it, sometimes that spark can fade, especially when there is no newness. Have either of you tried to surprise the other? Be spontaneous? Bring back that intimate life and a spark that is not dead but just faded perhaps? You could also try this, which I've heard works well. Think of one of the times you guys went out more towards the beginning of your relationship. Think back to an evening you both really enjoyed, what it was you did, and how passionate it made you two feel that undoubtedly led to sex. I've been told that reviving a part of a relationship can be easy, as it is, like you say, the only issue. The rest of your marriage is solid, so that's awesome. Hope this might help your case.

[Deanster]

Hi EP - I've spent good chunks of the last few years 'working on it', but ultimately, it's always been a much lower priority for my wife than for me, and with the arrival of our (wonderful) children, she's pretty clearly and explicitly made the case that they are her primary relationship, not me, and that while in the abstract, she agrees that we could be more intimate, it's just not a 'problem' for her, and thus it's really my selfish desires to pull her away from the kids that are the problem.

 

Nothing new there, and nothing that hasn't been covered dozens of times in the endless stream of sexless marriage threads here. I keep working on it, but it's waaaaaay beyond things 'just needing a spark'. I keep trying, and don't really ever anticipate giving up, but I am in the process of trying to figure out what this means for the long run, and what 'settling in' for the next couple decades of little or no marital intimacy might look like.

[JamesM]

Deanster, I am in my 40s and have been married for almost 18 years. While I still live in a almost sexless marriage (being that we have sex less than once a week), it is better than it has been in the past.

 

A few years ago, I was in exactly your situation. My wife told me exactly what yours did..."Since I have no interest in sex, then if you do, it is your selfish desires." She began suggesting separate beds. Now she thinks differently, but she still has a lower libido than I would like. She no longer believes that it is only my problem, and she would love to have more interest in sex. However, imagine if you had not desire for some gourmet food, and people said that you should, because they do. This is similar. While I still am looking for more solutions, I do not feel that I am alone in doing so.

 

About two years ago, when I first joined here, I had reached a point of almost no return. I was ready for an affair, and if the situation had presented itself, I am sure that I would have gone for it. Out of anger, frustration, and desperation, I googled low libido and forums and found a couple of marriage forums. LS was one of them. Through that research, I discovered that my wife's thyroid condition which I knew very little about could be at the root of her problems. She had pains and fatigue and had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. She was on numerous medications. Thanks to someone I met on another Board and because someone here suggested looking into thyroidism, I directed my wife to a website. She gave this info to her doctor and persuaded him to change medications. This has made a big improvement in her life. She has much less pain, a little more libido, a lot less depression, and has regained hope that her life will always be painful and depressing.

 

While I do not know if your wife has a possible physical reason or has a medication which can cause her low libido, I can say that you do have other options besides acceptance and resignation to your situation. My journey began out of anger and frustration with no hope for any answers, but thankfully after four months, my wife was much better. While her new found libido was much much higher during the next six months or so, it has dropped off to somewhere below the high and above the lows.

 

She now at least is much more loving. She never simply says that sex is my problem. And while I know it is not all her fault, we both recognize that it is not ALL my fault. We can actually talk about it without the discussion turning into a fight. And yes, we have sex occasionally. Maybe it is her simply showing her love to me rather than her hungrily and passionately wanting sex, but who knows...tomorrow may be better. It is a mutual participation now rather than no reciprocation during the lovemaking.

 

So, my point to you is simply....do not give up. Look at every possible reason for her low libido. I will list some of the possible reasons that may be a cause for her low libido.....

 

1. Children. This can be a problem if she is resentful that you do not help out. It can also be a problem if she never has a break or works and takes care of the children.

 

2. Financial problems. IF you are deep in debt and she has no hope for change, then this can reduce her libido. Or if she thinks you are irresponsible, she may carry anger.

 

3. Medications. There are many meds that can reduce the libido. They include antidepressants and more. My suggestion is to google each if she is on any and look at the side effects.

 

4. Past sexual abuse. This can include incest, childhood abuse, or dating abuse.

 

5. Mental or emotional conditions. Has she ever been treated for depression or any anxiety issues...for just a start?

 

6. Physical conditions diagnosed or undiagnosed. Does she have a thyroid problem? Has she? Was her thyroid level a problem while pregnant? If she has any physical illness or condition, research it for side effects and symptoms.

 

7. Open communication between the two of you. The fact that you cannot discuss the problem of sex indicates that you do not have an open and loving relationship with her. While this is fairly common, in order for a solution to be found, eventually you will need to be able to discuss your sex life with her.

 

8. Past affairs by her or you. This can impede her interest in you sexually if she thinks/knows you cheated, or if she unknown by you had an affair with someone else.

 

9. And while this may be somewhat covered under other areas, she may have resentment built up towards you because of a host of other problems that the two of you had in the past. Have you forgotten important dates? Has she said you never help around the house? Is she busy cleaning up while you sit and watch TV? And so the list can go on and on. Simply put, list all of her resentments towards you, and see if there is a possible reason for no sex. then try to resolve the issue.

 

These are just a few ideas. While mine was partly solved with a medication change, yours may not be as simple...or it may be. The fact is...if you give up, you will never know. My thought to myself was always...maybe it is something simple, and I divorce her and ruin my family. Then along comes another guy who cares for her enough to find out why she has a low libido, and he reaps the results.

 

Start looking for books or even websites that might be helpful. This one certainly is from my experiences. Here are a couple that were helpful to me...

 

http://www.divorcebusting.com/

 

Michelle wrote and excellent book about the Sex Starved Marriage that was helpful to me, and I actually persuaded my wife to read parts. This book did help her understand more what we were missing. It explained to me her side, and it explained to her my side.

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/

 

While I did not use this one much, others here have found this one a good one.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link%5Fcode=qs&field-keywords=low%20libido&sourceid=Mozilla-search

 

Here is a list of books that Amazon sells that may be of help. I did purchase a couple that gave me some different insights. You may be able to find some at the library instead of purchasing them.

 

The thing is...answers might be out there, but if you do not look, you will never know. And if your wife sees that you are looking for answers, she may realize that this is much more to you than simply sex. If it was just sex, then you could get that elsewhere. I remember when the book by Michelle Weiner Davis (http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Remedy-Proven-Program-Marriage/dp/0684873257/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197565510&sr=8-3) was on the counter when I was reading it, and she saw it. She had this strange look and said, "Are you thinking about divorce?" I said, "No, I am trying to AVOID divorce." This may have had an impact and I never knew it.

 

If you committed to marriage, then it was for better or for worse. BUT no one said you had to SETTLE for the worse without trying to make things better.

[ElvenPriestess]

Hi EP - I've spent good chunks of the last few years 'working on it', but ultimately, it's always been a much lower priority for my wife than for me, and with the arrival of our (wonderful) children, she's pretty clearly and explicitly made the case that they are her primary relationship, not me, and that while in the abstract, she agrees that we could be more intimate, it's just not a 'problem' for her, and thus it's really my selfish desires to pull her away from the kids that are the problem.

 

Nothing new there, and nothing that hasn't been covered dozens of times in the endless stream of sexless marriage threads here. I keep working on it, but it's waaaaaay beyond things 'just needing a spark'. I keep trying, and don't really ever anticipate giving up, but I am in the process of trying to figure out what this means for the long run, and what 'settling in' for the next couple decades of little or no marital intimacy might look like.

 

Ok, I see what you mean. She needs to realize that these aren't selfish desires, they are natural feelings, wanting to be close to your wife. As far as taking you away from the kids, I mean, I understand her dedication. That's a good thing. But I think she needs to compromise, it shouldn't be that relationship over yours, they are just different. She may be complacent with no sex because of the bond with her kids, and while it wouldn't be fair for her to have sex out of obligation, there really does need to be more compromise. As a husband it's not fair to you. I don't think you're selfish at all, I think you just desire to be closer to her, perhaps the way things used to be once upon a time? Does that sound about right?

[armywife915]

I am totally baffled when women have no desire to have sex. I LOVE SEX!!!!! Ok in my last relationship I hated it but that's because my guy didn't last long at all. With my H, however, I love it!!!!! I am so deprived right now because my H just got deployed to Iraq. He won't actually be there until March but he is away for training. It's only been about a week but I am dieing. I wish I could talk to these girls and make them realize what they are missing!

[Mr. Lucky]

She may be complacent with no sex because of the bond with her kids, and while it wouldn't be fair for her to have sex out of obligation

But of course, complacency aside, she has an obligation to be sexual with her husband. Isn't that part of their committment to each other?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Deanster]

Thanks all - James - I've read much of what you've had to say in other threads as well, and appreciate your thoughts. I'll confess that I'm honestly not quite sure whether to take your experience as a sign of hope, or an indication of how limited the success of even an aggressive, committed, and long-term effort is likely to be.

 

Honestly, yours is about the most improvement I've heard of in a long-term sexless marriage, where it has been a long-term problem. I commend your efforts, and the success you've seen, but I wonder a bit about a situation in which that's the 'best case' one can hope for.

 

Several of the things on your list are indeed problems, and we've been working on them for a very long time, with mixed success. I think part of my original post was looking for some more-direct support (in real life, perhaps) for the challenges ahead.

 

Armywife - I'm like you... sex and intimacy are a true joy for me - wonderful from every aspect. I honestly don't understand how anyone could not want it on a constant/regular basis. However, I'm (painfully) aware that that's not a universal sentiment, and that people are just wired differently.

 

We all have a place on the libido bell curve, and my wife was on the lower side to begin with, and the processes of having kids, the stresses of everyday life, and a variety of things in our relationship have moved her into a very low libido situation.

 

I think part of my difficulty is knowing that where she was on our 'best' day was right on the edge of 'livable' for me, and that we're unlikely to ever see that again...

 

It just hurts to even write that. Ouch. Hmmm... I seem to have a little something in my eye...

[ElvenPriestess]

But of course, complacency aside, she has an obligation to be sexual with her husband. Isn't that part of their committment to each other?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You are absolutely right, which is why she needs to compromise more to feed your needs. I don't think you're selfish at all for wanting to be intimate with your wife. It's your wife! But I do think it's selfish for her not to give you what you need. She has to realize that she needs to be satisfying her husband, serving you. That's what marriage is about, serving each other.

[Cobra_X30]

I think part of my original post was looking for some more-direct support (in real life, perhaps) for the challenges ahead.

 

You want to get a beer?

[Mr. Lucky]

We all have a place on the libido bell curve, and my wife was on the lower side to begin with, and the processes of having kids, the stresses of everyday life, and a variety of things in our relationship have moved her into a very low libido situation.

 

I think part of my difficulty is knowing that where she was on our 'best' day was right on the edge of 'livable' for me, and that we're unlikely to ever see that again...

 

It just hurts to even write that. Ouch. Hmmm... I seem to have a little something in my eye...

The truth is that there isn't an answer but simply a list of choices. And many of those choices are difficult.

 

I couldn't stay long-term in the relationship you describe. Perhaps that makes me weak, a lesser man than some. And I certainly would not judge your own choices or actions under those circumstances. Keep us posted...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TonyD]

(really good post, JamesM)

..........

I for one could not live in a sex free marriage - simply because that is not the way it is supposed to be.

 

Look at this: http://www.igniteherpassion.com/post/First-Step-to-Rekindle-Her-Passion-and-Libido.aspx It applies to both of you.

 

Your wife's assertion that your need for sex is the problem is just plain wrong. I have heard this before. The kids being a priority is a nice excuse, but does not hold water.

 

You and your wife have to take care of each other's needs. You two are the foundation the family stands on - without that solid foundation, what sort of family do the children have? Not a healthy one.

 

Of course it is a two way street - are you fulfilling her needs? What are her needs? That is a question you really need ponder.

 

There is a relationship here - and it is two ways - she needs to see that she is responsible to you and you to her - that she should not use the children as a shield - she needs to get over whatever deeper issues she has about sex and be responsible to your marriage.

 

Don't give up - it can get better - you can turn it around. Seek marriage counseling - if she asks why, tell her that you are not happy and that should be enough - if she does not go - then you can go yourself. You are 50% of the equation - and you can get marriage counseling by yourself. Perhaps she will see changes in you and decide to go too. That would be great.

 

You can do it! There is hope. Give it time and effort. May God bless you and give you peace and strength. I hope it all works out.

[Passionate69]

You want to get a beer?

 

 

 

 

My comments was gone and i wasn't able to log-in yesterday, i though i was banned by offering the OP.:lmao:

 

 

to the op. good luck with you, i hope your situation will getting better .

[tommyr]

In early 2006 my wife and I went over 6 months without any sexual relations. Leading up to that total dry spell, we were averaging once every few months. In August 06 it dawned on me that I could not remain in a sexless marriage forever. Thinking about my options (celibacy, cheat, divorce) I made the decision that I would do everything possible to restore our physical relationship. Several months of challenging work followed, alot of which felt like I was busting my ass to improve our overall relationship (not just the sex) while she could care less. However I do need to give her some credit because our sexlife was getting much better (twice per month or so) but still far below my happiness threshold.

 

We did some marriage counseling and that was helpful. There was progress followed by setbacks followed by more progress. I did not make any kind of threats or ultimatums, but in July we had a pivotal moment (I will credit ladyjane for this phrase) - taillights in the driveway - when my wife realized that our marriage was on the line. I had demonstrated I was willing to work hard to meet her needs and I guess she was suddenly feeling pretty selfish about withholding sex.

 

Since then we really have a pretty good sexlife, just about 2X per week. Of course my high libido wants even more but I am content with things and who knows maybe next year will be even better. Not only our sex has improved but a total climate change has come about in our relationship.

 

Our main problem was like yours - the kids were her #1 priority. Here is a helpful post I saw in another forum (loveshack does not allow links):

But as we have discussed before, it reflects short term thinking. And relies on assumptions that are often factually untrue. One problem is that it reflects a choice along the lines of "I will focus on my child now, and then I will focus on my spouse later, so my spouse should just have patience." This decision is not discussed with the spouse or agreed upon mutually. It is imposed on the spouse. When the spouse expresses unhappiness with this decision, they are told they are immature and selfish. The truly mature thing to do would be to agree together as a couple how to allocate the mother's limited time and energy between her children and her spouse - and vice versa.

 

Another problem is that the choice to focus on the child is based on the assumption that the child "needs" constant physical attention whereas the spouse is an adult who can easily "take care of himself". Neither side of that is true. Children do need a certain amount of physical care. Feeding. Changing. Some play time. But it is not true that the child's best interest is served by the mother responding to EVERY request by the child for physical touch. Example: what method is usually suggested for teaching a child to sleep through the night? Responding to their every cry for attention? NO. The dominant method used these days is to teach your child self reliance by letting them "cry themselves to sleep". My guess is that the typical middle class Mom in the USA is much closer to over indulging her child than to depriving them of sufficient physical touch.

 

And the flip side is just as false. Many husbands need regular physical touch as much or more than children do. And their are far fewer acceptable substitutes for grown men than there are for children. My guess is that your child gets alot more hugs from other people (besides you) and spends more time rolling around on the floor playing with other kids than your H does. So not only is your husband likely more touch deprived than your son, your husband is probably more reliant on you to get his need met than your child is.

 

Moreover, you are focusing your energy on your child in the hope that it will help the child will grow up healthy and well adjusted mentally and emotionally. But as I believe we have discussed before, this is pouring water into a bucket with holes in the bottom. If you neglect your husband to the point that he divorces you, there is a good chance that your kid will end up as messed up, or even more messed up, than if you had "deprived" the kid of some attention in order to have some energy left for the kid's father.

 

So while it may seem during each individual moment during the day that you have no choice but to tend to your child and wear yourself out. In the bigger picture you do have a choice. And doing what seems counter-intuitive in the moment may in fact be better treatment of your child. After all, it is not easy to listen to your child cry out for you at bedtime. But most children do eventually learn to fall asleep on their own. And that is a good thing.

[Deanster]

Sorry 'bout that, X30 and 69! I apparently inadvertently posted a bit that's outside the TOS. Thanks to the mods for letting me know, and making an edit to bring my post back in the guidelines, rather than just killing it or me!

[silktricks]

just wanted to add - I'm a lady with a pretty high libido, but for awhile was completely not interested. Not because I was really not interested, but because I didn't get enough non-sexual contact with my husband. I wanted conversation and non-sexual snuggling too. I withdrew from him (I know now) because my emotional needs weren't being met - at the time though, I thought I wasn't interested.