cutegirl Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Learn how to get women through PUA training and you end up sounding like this. lol, I think we are reading the same board! Does it start with the letter "F"? Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 This is the difference between someone learning a technique from a PUA forum and someone who actually likes and respects women, as another person. Where does attraction come in?? My experience -- and probably that of many others, judging from the number of "nice guy" rants on LS -- is that most efforts of liking and respecting lead to an undesired platonic situation. The allure of the PUA community is that they seem to have mastered the elusive attraction element. Anyone can be in a relationship -- it's not necessarily easy, but it's far easier than sparking and maintaining an attraction. Nursing a relationship for months was the only way I could successfully gain a little dating and sex experience. If I had first figured out how to pick up women casually, would I have learned much more about women, been in a better position to choose who I wanted relationships with, and subsequently made a better decision about marriage? IMO, the value of the PUA community rests on the answer to that question. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Where does attraction come in?? My experience -- and probably that of many others, judging from the number of "nice guy" rants on LS -- is that most efforts of liking and respecting lead to an undesired platonic situation. The allure of the PUA community is that they seem to have mastered the elusive attraction element. Anyone can be in a relationship -- it's not necessarily easy, but it's far easier than sparking and maintaining an attraction. Nursing a relationship for months was the only way I could successfully gain a little dating and sex experience. If I had first figured out how to pick up women casually, would I have learned much more about women, been in a better position to choose who I wanted relationships with, and subsequently made a better decision about marriage? IMO, the value of the PUA community rests on the answer to that question. Once again, are you looking for a one-nighter or a relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Once again, are you looking for a one-nighter or a relationship? How do you know if you haven't experienced both? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 How do you know if you haven't experienced both? Answer my question. Are you looking for a one-nighter or a relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Answer my question. Are you looking for a one-nighter or a relationship? I will answer it. The main goal is to get a one night stand IMO. Think of it...if a guy gets a woman for a long term relationship, then he gives up all of that "easy" sex. Having googled the PUA and looked at a couple of forums, this is not an area that a man who is looking for a real life would go. Yes, if done right, some women would fall for such lines, but face it, if this is a front for picking up women, then what does a guy do once he has the woman? And so he survives a few nights of sex, does he suddenly learn how to build a relationship from that. One day she told me that if I wanted to get a woman all I had to do was talk to her and she’d soon see how wonderful a guy I was and fall for me. It’s the best advice I’ve ever gotten. This is the best advice. I would carry it one step farther. In my experiences, the best way to attract a woman is by listening. We all like a friend, and we all want someone who values our opinions and lives. Listen and communicate. If a guy builds his confidence, then he can be himself. Being what some plan tells you may work in the short term, but being yourself should be the best selling point that you have. It is not about looks or lines, it is about personality and attitude. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I will answer it. The main goal is to get a one night stand IMO. Think of it...if a guy gets a woman for a long term relationship, then he gives up all of that "easy" sex. Having googled the PUA and looked at a couple of forums, this is not an area that a man who is looking for a real life would go. Yes, if done right, some women would fall for such lines, but face it, if this is a front for picking up women, then what does a guy do once he has the woman? And so he survives a few nights of sex, does he suddenly learn how to build a relationship from that. The sad reality is that there are chumps who fall for this kind of crap, who "catch" someone worthwhile, then can't keep her, due to all the lies told during the hunting process. It's an empty front. I'll be the first person to say that confidence is attractive in a man. Just make certain that it's real confidence instead of bravado. Make those integral, internal changes and you're set for life, not only in your love life but also, in most other aspects. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 My experience -- and probably that of many others, judging from the number of "nice guy" rants on LS -- is that most efforts of liking and respecting lead to an undesired platonic situation. The allure of the PUA community is that they seem to have mastered the elusive attraction element. The difficult part is NOT attracting women, but it is attracting women who are compatible and will make a life long partner. The funny part is that just because one attracts a woman via the PUA methods, he is still faced with being himself the next morning. And when life continues on, will he be able to put on the PUA front every day for his life? And if he doesn't, does he then become that nice guy in a platonic relationship? Life is much more than sex. Women are worth much more than sex. Marriage is worth much more than sex. But it seems that the PUA community is all about sex. How can this prepare you for a life, women, and marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) I've checked out of few of those 'dating guru' types on the net. A couple out of the mob actually have thier act together. Some of it is more life coaching and building yourself up. Followed with ideas of attraction and lessons in body language etc. Things that some guys learned naturally and others (myself somewhat included) were almost clueless to. Some of it was helpful in rebuilding self-esteem after my wife left me. As far as the lines, openers and all that crud.. the reality is if you believe in yourself, have the confidence, have a life and are a good conversationalist the hardest part is just starting the interaction. I think the line from Field of Dreams really sums it up. "If you build it, they will come." Meaning that if you build youself a good life, you'll feel good about yourself, be interesting and others will want to be part of it. If the goal is one nighters, then that's what you'll get. I'm not really built that way... the few I've had happened by accident and though I don't regret anything they weren't all that fulfilling. It's funny in a way... and how life works is strange. When I wasn't looking for anything and just having fun i would suddenly find myself practically attacked to get into bed... go figure. Edited December 28, 2007 by sumdude Link to post Share on other sites
cutegirl Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 99 percent of men on PUA boards are looking for one nighters. I actually think most men period are looking for that (and lots of attached men are looking for the same thing but on the side and discreetly). A one night stand is the ideal sex encounter for most men because they don't have to see the same women again, it's all about variety for most men. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 99 percent of men on PUA boards are looking for one nighters. I actually think most men period are looking for that (and lots of attached men are looking for the same thing but on the side and discreetly). A one night stand is the ideal sex encounter for most men because they don't have to see the same women again, it's all about variety for most men. Hmm.. that's a prettty big generalization. Most of the guys I know may talk a good game but in reality want a true relationship. Most of the guys on this board seem to as well. Depends where you are in life and what you want. Of course everyone wants sex... . I find that sex gets better when you're in a good relationship. Though there definitly are a lot of playahs out there... both men and women mind you. Link to post Share on other sites
cutegirl Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hmm.. that's a prettty big generalization. Most of the guys I know may talk a good game but in reality want a true relationship. Most of the guys on this board seem to as well. Depends where you are in life and what you want. Of course everyone wants sex... . I find that sex gets better when you're in a good relationship. Though there definitly are a lot of playahs out there... both men and women mind you. I didn't say there was anything wrong with just having one nighters. It's perfectly acceptable in my eyes, I think everyone should do whatever they feel like. I'm not a judgmental person and I don't have strict morals. I don't think wanting a relationship is "better" than banging a bunch of people. I am merely addressing the question that some posters had about what the motives were behind guys that are heavily into the PUA lifestyle. Of course it's about getting laid with as many people as possible. Trust me, of guys prefer sex with a variety of women even when they are in a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
oppath Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 99 percent of men on PUA boards are looking for one nighters. I actually think most men period are looking for that (and lots of attached men are looking for the same thing but on the side and discreetly). A one night stand is the ideal sex encounter for most men because they don't have to see the same women again, it's all about variety for most men. Big generalization. I think you are describing maybe 20% of the male population. The ideal sex encounter for a guy is a woman whose company they enjoy but only see once every 1.5 weeks, not a one night stand. Link to post Share on other sites
halfarock Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Where does attraction come in?? My experience -- and probably that of many others, judging from the number of "nice guy" rants on LS -- is that most efforts of liking and respecting lead to an undesired platonic situation. The allure of the PUA community is that they seem to have mastered the elusive attraction element. Anyone can be in a relationship -- it's not necessarily easy, but it's far easier than sparking and maintaining an attraction. Nursing a relationship for months was the only way I could successfully gain a little dating and sex experience. If I had first figured out how to pick up women casually, would I have learned much more about women, been in a better position to choose who I wanted relationships with, and subsequently made a better decision about marriage? IMO, the value of the PUA community rests on the answer to that question. This is just part of the PUA dogma. I’ve read extensively the PUA literature and I am not at all convinced that they understand, let alone master attraction. Throughout my life (I’m in my 40’s) I’ve always had women attracted to me and never once have I done things the way PUA gurus proscribe. There have been several times when I’ve been at social gatherings and there was some woman that seemingly every guy was trying out his PUA skills on – with little effect – and then have the woman approach me with a great deal of interest. I’ve long known what women are most attracted to – good looks, athleticism, being comfortable with oneself, and a pleasant charming personality – with things like intelligence, having interesting things to say, and humor being bonuses. A man who is truly attractive to women doesn’t have to game them. The PUA community tries very hard to gloss over this fact, mostly because they are selling their “game” to men who aren’t attractive to women. Last night my girlfriend was in one of those moods where she was telling me how much I mean to her. Mostly she was saying that I exude positive energy, happy positive energy that never fails to make her feel good. I just don’t see even the best PUA in the world out-gaming that. Link to post Share on other sites
fishtaco Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'm a believer of techniques, because of my personal experience. I've never heard of the PUA community or their October Sequence or whatever. I think there's a base line of mind games you have to play. Just because men and women think so differently. In order to be effective, you have to understand the mentality of the opposite sex and act accordingly. The "be yourself camp" may disagree, please feel free to do so, but all I can say is that as an ex-nice guy, I was being myself for many years, it didn't work, and I'm not going back there. But all that hypnosis neuro-linguistics crap just sounds dumb. I don't think cutegirl has anything to worry/be angry about. I seriously doubt those techniques work. "below me" = "blow me"? Come on. What if some dude sitting at the next table overheard the conversation? He turns gay? One of my female friends is a hockey nut. She wants men that are into hockey. So I told her to mention "hot tea" repeatedly in a conversation, it'll make the guy suddenly like hockey. And as for hitting up on the less attractive woman to damage the self esteem of the more attractive one. Um, that's like her problem. If something as simple as that gets to her, she needs help. Weak-willed people will attract people that want to use them. There is no gender bias here, and this fact exists outside of dating/sex as well. It's not a dating technique, it's just general predatory behavior. But really it's not men's job to baby sit weak women, and it's not women's job to baby sit weak men either. Survival of the strongest. If a man/woman falls for some dumb technique, they're stupid. Maybe they'll learn next time. That's how I learned. I went from stupid to less-stupid. If I can do it, anyone can. If the neuro-BS were real. I'd like to master it so I can get the share holders to promote me to CEO of the company, and sign a contract of 500 million dollar exit fee in case I get fired for snoozing on the job. Using something so powerful just to get one night stands with chicks is severely short sighted. Link to post Share on other sites
Green Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The PUA stuff and techniques are real its just not as easy to master as all the guys selling book and CD's would have you believe. Buy my book and you'll learn how to seduce any woman is a real joke. But it doesn't change the fact that doing certain things will increase your chances many fold. It doesn't make a person weak because a technique works on them. I mean on a grander scale. Being a strong man or woman alone isn't going to get you a mate. For instance I've been healthy all my life, I'm tall, handsome and well spoken, But it still wouldn't be a good idea for me to just walk up to a girl and say I think we'd make a good match lets go out so I can get to know you. sure it might work, but it could also come off as awkward for the girl, what if the girl was there with her friends, what if the girl likes to do a little talking before being romanticly engaged. Well you might have alot better chance with that same girl if you used a social tactic such as commenting on recent cold weather, doing some flirtatios small talk, and then saying it would be nice if you could meet up again. It goes much more indepth than that of course but my point is, we use formalities and rules in everything else, from the best way to conduct an interview to how customers like to be treated at a resteraunt so why not dating. PUA is for men, Women have been talking about dating tactics for years and have a much better self help selection in this area. so why not men Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It depends on what we're talking about here. If we're having a discussion on how to meet a girl at a bar and have sex every weekend, then maybe some of these techniques might work -- with dumb, drunk, loose or emotionally imbalanced girls. If you want something deeper and more meaningful, the pick up artist stuff won't work. A woman will see right through that. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Big generalization. I think you are describing maybe 20% of the male population. The ideal sex encounter for a guy is a woman whose company they enjoy but only see once every 1.5 weeks, not a one night stand. Almost. I guess guys, like women, are different, but for me I know one of my big problems with women is that I like my space -- I mean I really like it. The ideal relationship for me is a relationship in which we live in separate places but hang out and f*ck on the weekends, share deep conversations with and so forth, and then back to my own business during the week. That would I explain why I'm single more often than not. (but at least I know why). Link to post Share on other sites
Lunar Sonata Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Cookie cutter advice is for cookie cutter situations. If you read this forum, you'll know that it's FULL of cookie cutter situations. I see the same crap every day, and I usually end up giving the same advice for each one. No kidding. Use search, people. Your problem isn't unique and neither will your replies if you make a new thread. Link to post Share on other sites
virtuzoso Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I dont know that I would completely dismiss the PUA stuff.. I just recently heard about it. I am about halfway through "The Game" by Neil Strauss and also have read "Double your Dating" by David DeAngelo. I've found it extremly useful so far. But not in the ways you might think. A few weeks ago I decided I was tired of being single and so anti-social and also so shy. I dont know exactly where I heard about any of it from, but I stumbled onto it. One night stands arent my goal at all, ( though I dont have a problem with them), but there's more to it than just banging some chick you just met I think. That very well may be the goal for ALOT or the majority of the members, but not for all. The absolute biggest benefit I have seen so far from it is the confidence boosting you get from it. The social anxieties just begin to fade away. Everyone always says "just be yourself" but in reality, we rarely are. We are too worried about irrational social fears. My experience so far is that its been one hell of a good way to aleviate some of that. All my life( and probably like most guys) I have been either chasing after some girl or wondering whether I SHOULD be chasing after that certain person, wondering if they will like you back, etc. Frankly, it pretty much sucked for the most part. So from PUA community, there is definitely some very real benefit for someone learn to value themselves first. Rather than pining away after some out of reach dream girl, its helping me be not just myself, but being my BEST self. ( thats a quote directly from The Game). That has been invaluable to me. The PUA community definitely has its seedy side. I am still very skeptical of it. I doubt it works well on anyone who isnt a city-living club going type of gal. Try using that stuff on a small town librarian on the Bible Belt, id love to see that lol! The whole hypnotism and NLP thing is downright creepy, and I really dont like the banging a different chick everynight stereotype ( nor do I desire that lifestyle) but theres some very real social benefits to be had from participating in it, at least in part. I doubt that I will ever run one of the sequence or tricks they talk about, but it sure has been awesome for putting me more at ease socially. I think alot of the material is really great for social and self improvement Link to post Share on other sites
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