Came face to face with my MM and his wife

[JamesM]

I think that is the whole point. She doesn't find him sexually attractive. I think that is the whole issue with women who no longer wants sex with their H.

 

It is just that simple. That being said... the reason behind the non attraction, could be quite complex.

 

It can be this, or it can be built up anger, or as NID said, it can be a physical issue which has nothing to do with the husband.

 

So, if she no longer finds him sexually attractive, and he is required to find sex only within the marriage, what should be done?

 

Believe it or not, I am not always referring to myself when I make these comments. My wife and I actually do discuss this issue without fighting...as we did in the past. This alone gives me hope that we will resolve our problem...no matter whose fault it is.

 

And no offense to you, James, but your "she owes me" mentality comes across quite clearly in your posts. That in itself is enough to turn a woman off.

 

(Stealing from GEL)....you are focusing on the person instead of the problem.

 

Your perception is interesting. While I don't think it is only a matter of "owing," I do think it is a matter of communicating. If there is any reason why a woman no longer wants sex with her husband, then this should be communicated to him.

 

Think about it....if sex is supposed to be part of the fidelity of a marriage (which is why affairs are called infidelity), then why is it okay to keep withholding sex in a marriage?

 

Yes, I get testy, too (and I am not pregnant ) when this double standard is maintained. I think if one reads my posts on The OM/OW or Infidelity forums, I am fairly clear that I do not condone affairs. Yet when I read the "righteous indignation" portrayed by the BS, I wonder How many of these cheating men have already tried all that they could in their marriage? How many truly want their wife back as she was? Yet if they themselves were at fault for the lack of sex, how many really knew why sex was withheld?

 

Along the lines of what Cobra said, if I walked in and said to my wife, "We need to resolve this issue," would she take me as seriously as if she found out that I had considered an affair or worse she found me in an affair?

 

Are we all that dense when it comes to communication in marriage that we cannot see what our actions to the one we love the most?

 

And yes, I can say 100%, if I knew what to do, I would do it. And I have no plans nor do I intend nor do I think it is right to conduct an affair.

 

Somehow I feel as if I am Lizzie's MM.

[eleanorrigby]

Ouch.. now this one is NOT good looking... she looks like a 'horse' LOL

 

He then looked for me in the store and we chatted for a few minutes... he just texted me.. saying he felt like frenchkissing me right there in the aisle. yeah right.. 'chicken 'sh*t''

 

 

I hope he won't ask me what I thought of her... I can't lie...

 

It tickles you that she is "unattractive" to you and has the added burden of a lousy, cheating, husband? Why is that amusing to you? Why are you finding such glee in her misery?

[White Flower]

Originally posted by child of isis>

And no offense to you, James, but your "she owes me" mentality comes across quite clearly in your posts. That in itself is enough to turn a woman off.

 

I didn't get that sense from James at all. I think almost all people go into a marriage with the knowledge that sex is going to be a pretty regular sport that is enjoyable. It is expected. If one party doesn't fulfill that expectation the other is left wondering wtf happened? James is dumbfounded and rightfully so. I think he is demonstrating extreme restraint at this point. Even if he did say, "she owes me", wouldn't that be the norm?

 

It's like leasing a porsche. You thought it would go fast, but you find it's not even worth taking on the freeway. You would trade that puppy in the same day.

 

I'm glad most MP don't trade in their spouses that quickly, but the unreliability of that slow engine does wear one down over time. The clinker will get you places, but sometimes you just need a joyride.

[Cobra_X30]

I think that is the whole point. She doesn't find him sexually attractive. I think that is the whole issue with women who no longer wants sex with their H.

 

It is just that simple. That being said... the reason behind the non attraction, could be quite complex.

 

And no offense to you, James, but your "she owes me" mentality comes across quite clearly in your posts. That in itself is enough to turn a woman off.

 

(Stealing from GEL)....you are focusing on the person instead of the problem.

 

I agree and disagree.

 

There is a strong emotional reflex built into women that makes them want to "keep" a man. Now it's like walking a razors edge because too much pulling away and she wont see any reason to "keep" you. However if you are too much of a sure thing... she wont have the emotional need to do anything to "keep" you there. Also... not all women are this way!

 

So this is what bugs me about husbands that try so hard to be perfect. So many times it gets you unappreciated and unloved!

 

You need to focus on the person. Because the person is the problem.

[White Flower]

It tickles you that she is "unattractive" to you and has the added burden of a lousy, cheating, husband? Why is that amusing to you? Why are you finding such glee in her misery?

I'm not sure I can really speak for Lizzie, but what I take from it is how shocked she is at how they seem to be mismatched.

 

I think my MM's W is very pretty. Now. She's had a lot of work done. Yet, when they were younger, she was pretty mousy looking and he was a greek statue. I don't know what he saw in her then, but I think so highly of him for considering her at the time. It would be like George Clooney and a Reba McIntyre without make-up and "Reba" wasn't as cute as the real Reba. We always see beautiful women with not-so-good-looking men but rarely see the opposite. When we do, we are quite surprised and think, "Wow, there goes a guy who doesn't need a trophy wife--he's deep."

[White Flower]

I agree and disagree.

 

There is a strong emotional reflex built into women that makes them want to "keep" a man. Now it's like walking a razors edge because too much pulling away and she wont see any reason to "keep" you. However if you are too much of a sure thing... she wont have the emotional need to do anything to "keep" you there. Also... not all women are this way!

 

So this is what bugs me about husbands that try so hard to be perfect. So many times it gets you unappreciated and unloved!

 

You need to focus on the person. Because the person is the problem.

You sure know how to play the game, Cobra. But, I'm not knocking you.

 

And I concur: when H had is EA it brought all the wild out of me. My sitch was more of a competition thing, but kind of along the same lines.

[Havn_a_life]

I do not know what caused your husband's affair. It could simply be that he strayed with no reason other than he chose to do so. This does happen, but in many cases, there is a reason that brings a person to the point of choosing an affair. And no, it is not always about sex. There could have been another reason that brought him to this point...or none at all.

 

While most BS like to think that they are completely innocent when their spouse strays, this is usually not the case. Marriage takes two.

 

Marriage is not about "getting a piece," but yet sex seems to be that one bargaining tool that makes or breaks a marriage. Bad marriages can have good sex, but it is rare that a good marriage has bad sex.

 

Concerning the highlighted statement above...

I sure wish you could have explained that to my H way back when. lol

Cause he had a good M, with a W who would do anything for him, and kids who thought the world of him.

Scratching my head in confusion , I don't get why he strayed then.

Cause, I sure as hell did my part in the M to make it a good one.

[JamesM]

Scratching my head in confusion , I don't get why he strayed then.

Cause, I sure as hell did my part in the M to make it a good one.

 

What was HIS reason for the affair? Did he take full blame? No one is perfect, so it can be expected that both were to blame. The one who chooses the affair simply avoids resolution by leaving the marriage fro his "advice."

 

And I am not out to blame you or any woman for their husband's affairs...far from it. I think a man who chooses an affair still has other options for improving his own marriage. I just understand WHY he chose the affair.

[Havn_a_life]

I was in a bad marriage for 15 years that thank goodness ended up in divorce. I was emotionally and physically deprived for the last five years of that marriage. I often thought about having an affair, not for the sex per se, but for the emotional bond that I SO yearned to feel with someone. Emotions are expressed through physical touch. People need to be touched, caressed, embraced, kissed. This is what makes us human.

 

 

Exactly. There is sex ...and then again, there is sex. Not all sex is the same. Sex is as vital to a good marriage as is understanding, compassion,tolerance and patience.

 

Some 5 yrs after my H and I M, I worked with a man I'm sure I could've had an A with.

I had no interest in him, even though he could've provided me with hugs, kisses, etc., because I just wanted those things from my H, who wasn't the loving type back then.

That's why it was such a shock when a decade into our M, he strayed.

He was literally the cold fish, only warming up when he thought it was time for a piece.

[Havn_a_life]

What was HIS reason for the affair? Did he take full blame? No one is perfect, so it can be expected that both were to blame. The one who chooses the affair simply avoids resolution by leaving the marriage fro his "advice."

 

And I am not out to blame you or any woman for their husband's affairs...far from it. I think a man who chooses an affair still has other options for improving his own marriage. I just understand WHY he chose the affair.

 

He states now it was for sex, you know, something new. He had no emotional ties to the OW. He certainly was more than willing to cease all contact with her after dday.

Do I withhold sex from him? Some might think so, but, I used to have sex with him because I liked to.

Now I do it when I want to.

[Cobra_X30]

You sure know how to play the game, Cobra. But, I'm not knocking you.

 

And I concur: when H had is EA it brought all the wild out of me. My sitch was more of a competition thing, but kind of along the same lines.

 

I wish it wasnt a game, but it is, and I see no way around not playing it.

 

Which is why James, should pick a woman from work to start talking about at home.

 

Insecurity and jealousy when applied judiciously and in very small amounts can be your best friend.

[Havn_a_life]

I'm not sure I can really speak for Lizzie, but what I take from it is how shocked she is at how they seem to be mismatched.

 

I think my MM's W is very pretty. Now. She's had a lot of work done. Yet, when they were younger, she was pretty mousy looking and he was a greek statue. I don't know what he saw in her then, but I think so highly of him for considering her at the time. It would be like George Clooney and a Reba McIntyre without make-up and "Reba" wasn't as cute as the real Reba. We always see beautiful women with not-so-good-looking men but rarely see the opposite. When we do, we are quite surprised and think, "Wow, there goes a guy who doesn't need a trophy wife--he's deep."

 

or maybe he's just so stuck on himself, he doesn't want anyone complimenting his W more than himself. LOL

[JamesM]

 

Which is why James, should pick a woman from work to start talking about at home.

 

 

No, first, there are not any woman at work that would make her jealous. Nor are there any I am interested in. I do not find this as a way to build a trusting marriage. It may work in a dating situation but not in a marriage.

 

Reminds me of my last job...I hung around with a lady who had a husband who did not like sex. And my wife did not like sex. We both knew it. Yet my wife trusted me 100% with this woman...because she trusted this woman. Why is it that women seem to know who they can trust?

 

There was another woman who I also worked with at the time who I thought was okay but had no interest in. My wife did NOT trust her, so when I mentioned her name, my wife stiffened up. I could never understand it, because the first woman and I had many more opportunities and could have easily had an affair. The second one was not of interest to me....besides, she was having an affair with the national sales manager, and broke up his marriage. (Hmmm...maybe THAT is why my wife was worried when she came around to talk to me? Ya think? )

[OWoman]

It's like leasing a porsche. You thought it would go fast, but you find it's not even worth taking on the freeway. You would trade that puppy in the same day.

 

I'd remove the governer, tune the engine and soup it up a little first, and see how that went.

 

I'm glad most MP don't trade in their spouses that quickly, but the unreliability of that slow engine does wear one down over time. The clinker will get you places, but sometimes you just need a joyride.

 

every ride should be joyful, else what's the point?

[White Flower]

I wish it wasnt a game, but it is, and I see no way around not playing it.

 

Which is why James, should pick a woman from work to start talking about at home.

 

Insecurity and jealousy when applied judiciously and in very small amounts can be your best friend.

I hate to admit it, but it does work.

[White Flower]

or maybe he's just so stuck on himself, he doesn't want anyone complimenting his W more than himself. LOL

You're funny;) But I'm sure there are people like that.

 

He actually seems pretty humble about his looks. He says, "he doesn't think he's ugly, but"...that kind of thinking. I happen to think he is a Greek God.

[White Flower]

I'd remove the governer, tune the engine and soup it up a little first, and see how that went.

 

 

 

every ride should be joyful, else what's the point?

Yes, getting a tune up and trying other repairs is definitely in order. But we also spend a lot more time getting to know our human car before marriage than we do before leasing an actual car.

 

Now, what is a governor in this context?

[Cobra_X30]

No, first, there are not any woman at work that would make her jealous. Nor are there any I am interested in. I do not find this as a way to build a trusting marriage. It may work in a dating situation but not in a marriage.

 

Reminds me of my last job...I hung around with a lady who had a husband who did not like sex. And my wife did not like sex. We both knew it. Yet my wife trusted me 100% with this woman...because she trusted this woman. Why is it that women seem to know who they can trust?

 

Well, Maybe you should give it a try! Cause your ideas are not really working too well.

 

That trust she has for you is a double edged sword. Make sure it does not come at your expense!

 

Women more than men have a sense for someone who is unbalanced! You ever meet a guy and you think... man... he is just a little off. Just doesnt seem quite right to you. Well women have that same sense with other women!

 

You're funny;) But I'm sure there are people like that.

 

He actually seems pretty humble about his looks. He says, "he doesn't think he's ugly, but"...that kind of thinking. I happen to think he is a Greek God.

 

I keep speedreading these posts... and it totally looks like you wrote Geek God. Which provides a slightly different mental picture! Maybe if you stopped capitalizing the G... it wouldnt overshadow the r?

[OWoman]

While I don't think it is only a matter of "owing," I do think it is a matter of communicating. If there is any reason why a woman no longer wants sex with her husband, then this should be communicated to him.

 

Hmmm - I think this is easier said than done! If it's in a loving relationship, chances are it's been a gradual thing over time and at the point when the woman (or man!) recognises it as a problem, they don't want to upset their beloved by announcing that he (or she) has morphed into Cinderella's urgly sibling and they'd sooner kiss a frog. Or if it's in a relationship where things are showing strain, chances are the communication's been an early victim, and talking about delicate issues like that are so not going to happen. Well, outside one of those flare-ups that involve broken dishes and shattered egos.

 

But in principle, yes of course, who could possibly argue?

[OWoman]

Now, what is a governor in this context?

 

It's a device that regulates the speed of an engine - stops it revving too fast, which caps its top speed.

[Lizzie60]

I am just stopping for a few minutes here... but I sooo agree with some of your statements like:

 

And yet, they feel betrayed if their husband becomes interested in another woman who simply enjoys sex and freely expresses that love with him.

This is sooo true..

 

and

 

cheating is done both by the man who is seeking sex outside his M and his W who is withholding sex from him because her libido is gone. (this is exactly what my MM is dealing with)...

[Lizzie60]

I agree. Lots of things cause it too. A low functioning thyroid. Hormonal changes and imbalances. Physical exhaustion from being a caretaker to many. And the stress that comes along with it. Its funny that stress makes most men want a sexual release, but it tends to make women want to sleep it off.

 

And sometimes it just the fact that their partner has taken them for granted and no longer treats them as "cherished" which IS a marriage vow for us traditionalists.

 

Sex is icing for the marriage, IMO. It is NOT the stuff of the marriage. That's why it is one of the first indicators that something is off in one or both of the partners.

 

Women are faulted for being frigid often by selfish men who use their bodies without regard for the woman's pleasure. There is nothing worst than having your SO ask you if you can skip foreplay tonight because he's too tired for it (or to please you, in translation).

 

Sex just seems to be the issue that no one can really agree on all the time. It does not make or break a R. What breaks it is the one putting pressure on the other for it. Then communication breaks down. Then the insults start. Then the resentment builds. Instead of working towards what can work sexually, there is always someone demanding what they want with no compromises. That's how sex gets blamed.

 

No one has ever died from lack of sex. Ever.

 

I agree .. no one has ever died.. and no one has ever died from an A...

[Mustang Sally]

I agree .. no one has ever died.. and no one has ever died from an A...

Although, probably some have been killed over such.....

 

Just sayin'.

[Cobra_X30]

I agree .. no one has ever died.. and no one has ever died from an A...

 

I humbly submit to you... AIDS.

 

However, I like your attitude!

[Lizzie60]

It tickles you that she is "unattractive" to you and has the added burden of a lousy, cheating, husband? Why is that amusing to you? Why are you finding such glee in her misery?

 

 

I am not finding any 'glee' (whatever that means) in her misery.. I don't think she is in any misery... I think she is quite happy because she has an amazing husband. He's always at home.. he never goes out without his kids or her around...

 

I was just surprised.. I was expecting a much prettier wife.. that's all.

 

I won't tell her that she looks like a horse.. or a man dressed with women's clothes.. because I am afraid that... he starts looking at her with 'different eyes'... maybe he will also find her very ugly... who knows? Surely, no one has ever told him how ugly his wife is...