Came face to face with my MM and his wife

[sb129]

Y

What if you were disabled or paralyzed and could no longer HAVE sex?

.

 

Its still possible..... but I know what you mean.

[marlena]

Well it might not be OK for a lot of people who believe in M.. but, personally, I do not believe in marriage... I think it is unrealistic to think that, because you 'vow' when you were 18-20 year old (as if you know then that you have the right person for you LOL), you are condemned to sleep with that same person for the rest of your life.. it doesn't make sense to me. It's insane IMO.

 

 

 

 

I am with you on this, Lizzie! I don't believe in the vows nonsense either. It's like believing in "they lived happily ever after" fairy tales we are fed with as children. There is no such thing as vows. You are with a person for as long as you want to be. Period. End of story. No one should be shackled to silly and unrealistic vows that were taken years ago. We live in a constant state of flux and what was yesterday might no longer be today.

 

If only taking vows could ensure life long happiness! If only it were that easy! Then everyone would be happy and the world would be a more wonderful place to live in. Alas, the reality of our human predicament is much, much more complicated than the naive vows we take!

[PLAYBRAT]

I know that's an extreme example...but her "lover" is obviously STILL married to his W for a reason. To mock her and make fun of her beause she's not a beauty queen is ridiculous. They have ALSO been married 28 years...whether she thinks they "match" or not is irrelevant. I am sure if she told her lover what she really thought of his W he would not be so attracted to HER anymore. Just a guess..

[Lizzie60]

Well... we'll have to agree to disagree.. because sex, IMO is just as important as 'eating'. It is a physical need... and I don't see how, a partner, unless he is not sexual him/herself can live without it.

 

Of course it is easier for women to say that they can live in a sexless relationship as I think more women are sexless than men in a relationship/M.

 

I don't think I could be 'happy' in a sexless relationship.. but that's me...maybe some people can, but I know I can't.

 

I will never ever believe that someone can be faithful to the same person all his/her life.. it is just unrealistic... IMO.

[Tomcat33]

No, it's not ok Lizzie. He made vows to her and he is breaking them.

 

 

 

And she is breaking vows she made to him, she is depriving him of the basic need of intimacy, she has a problem refuses to fix and expects 100% from her H? Marriage doesn't work that way. They have both broken vows, so what he is doing is par for the course.

 

Provided things are as they seem, manipulation works both ways in that case.

[sb129]

 

If only taking vows could ensure life long happiness! If only it were that easy! Then everyone would be happy and the world would be a more wonderful place to live in. Alas, the reality of our human predicament is much, much more complicated than the naive vows we take!

 

I agree to a point Marlena, but people should at least make an effort to COMMUNICATE that their needs aren't being met before they go off and cheat. Then if they don't get the response they need, they should leave.

 

If one or both of you breaks the vows, or thinks you are going to break them you should end the R and stop living a lie.

 

. If you feel as if you are going to cheat because of whatever excuse. Leave, it is simple really. Just go instead of becoming a lying, manipulating, immoral pile of whatever.

[PLAYBRAT]

I responded to this post because Lizzie made comments about her lovers W's LOOKS..and how much better looking she thought she was. What does THAT have to do with what's being discussed here? Whether Lizzie thinks his W is attractive is irrelevant and shallow...because OBVIOUSLY there's a reason BEYOND sex AND looks that he is still with her.

 

Lizzie did it ever occur to you that he LIES about not getting sex so you will keep putting out to him? I think the person to call into question is the

slimeball who went behind his W''s back at the SAME STORE she was in to talk to you. THAT is what is pathetic here.

[marlena]

What if you were disabled or paralyzed and could no longer HAVE sex?

What would you have to rely on then?? If it's your compassion or personality I think you'd be ONE lonely woman

 

If I were disabled or paralyzed and I could no longer have sex but my husband needed it and craved it as any normal person would, especially if he were young, then, he would have my consent to go elsewhere to have his needs met. As difficut as that would be, I would make the sacrifice if I truly loved him. That is true comradeship and love. I wouldn't selfishly expect him to live a life of deprivation because of my handicap.

 

I would hope and pray that our emotional connection were strong enough to always bring him back home to me.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Maybe he feels sorry for her...

 

Shoot. For what?

 

She’s actually a very shrewd business lady. She gets all her bills paid for, all her house maintenance done for free, she inherits the property, the bank accounts and is beneficiary to his life insurance policy when he dies from an early stress-related heart attach. AND ... even though she doesn’t work, she’ll still get a social security check when he retires.

 

All of this without having to bend over like some dog and take it up the ayas for a few stolen moments of adulation and attention. And I bet if her husband were any better in the sack ... she wouldn’t be using her illness as an excuse to get out of it.

[Lizzie60]

Exactly.. well said... she also is not holding her part of the deal...

 

I also agree with Marlena.. it just doesn't make any sense.

 

They met when they were 18 and 14. They married when he was 22 and she was 18. They were both virgins, never had sex before the M... (another silly thing).. anyway. It took weeks before she agreed to let him 'in".. it was too painful. He always thought that 'couples' didn't have sex more than once a month... he has nothing to compare... then.

 

I honestly don't believe that, at 22, you know that this person is the 'one' and you will be with her/him all your life... this is ridiculous.

 

I feel relationships are like 'jobs'... we can't say we will keep the same work all our lives.. some do...but most don't... we might love our job one day and 'hate' it the next.

 

People change all the time.. it's normal.

[Lizzie60]

I agree to a point Marlena, but people should at least make an effort to COMMUNICATE that their needs aren't being met before they go off and cheat. Then if they don't get the response they need, they should leave.

 

If one or both of you breaks the vows, or thinks you are going to break them you should end the R and stop living a lie.

 

Yes but they had numerous arguments about her periods and the fact that she does not seek any medical help... she rather have her periods than have sex...

 

Then why should he leaves his kids for being a 'weekend' dad? I don't think it would be fair for him to sacrifice his comfortable life, his kids, his financial security.. it's her fault, not his.

 

They are 'happy' cause she knows nothing, she thinks she has the perfect husband that doesn't beg for sex (she thinks he's OK with it now) ... he gets what he needs on the side.. I do too... so we're all happy.

[PLAYBRAT]

Hmmm...well using his W's SUPPOSED lack of giving him sex as justification for your actions is NO better.

 

You sound like an old..and getting older by the day prostitute, who

hates the thought that a man might NOT find her attractive, so you are

using the ONLY thing you can to keep that from happening.

Anyone who is happy as you claim to be would not have to make

nasty comments about OTHER peoples looks. So keep putting out to these men who use you. Maybe one day you'll realize that's ALL they are doing, and one day you WILL be too old for them to want you anymore.

[sb129]

I know that's an extreme example...but her "lover" is obviously STILL married to his W for a reason. To mock her and make fun of her beause she's not a beauty queen is ridiculous. They have ALSO been married 28 years...whether she thinks they "match" or not is irrelevant. I am sure if she told her lover what she really thought of his W he would not be so attracted to HER anymore. Just a guess..

 

Good point.

[marlena]

And she is breaking vows she made to him, she is depriving him of the basic need of intimacy, she has a problem refuses to fix and expects 100% from her H? Marriage doesn't work that way. They have both broken vows, so what he is doing is par for the course.

 

Provided things are as they seem, manipulation works both ways in that case.

__________________

 

 

 

Ah, exquisitely stated!! Nothing more to add to this!

[marlena]

I responded to this post because Lizzie made comments about her lovers W's LOOKS..and how much better looking she thought she was. What does THAT have to do with what's being discussed here? Whether Lizzie thinks his W is attractive is irrelevant and shallow...because OBVIOUSLY there's a reason BEYOND sex AND looks that he is still with her.

 

 

Totally agree!

[Lizzie60]

And I bet if her husband were any better in the sack ... she wouldn’t be using her illness as an excuse to get out of it.

 

For having been in a very long common-law relationship myself.. I can tell you that sex was boring with him... sparks were gone.. it was more of a 'sacrifice' for me back then... so I do believe that whenever partners are having sex for 20+ years, it has to be monotone and robotic.

 

When I found myself single after all those years in a boring sex life, experiencing wild sex with a new exciting partner, the 'magic' came back.. and I've been more sexual than ever... ever since...

[marlena]

I agree to a point Marlena, but people should at least make an effort to COMMUNICATE that their needs aren't being met before they go off and cheat. Then if they don't get the response they need, they should leave.

 

If one or both of you breaks the vows, or thinks you are going to break them you should end the R and stop living a lie.

 

 

Couldn't agree more! This is the honest path to tread!

[Lizzie60]

wanted to add.. that it is most likely the same for him.. he found himself with a new partner after 28 yrs with the same woman... he wants to perform and do things that she won't let him do.. he is very talented and I have an idea that being with a new partner helps.

 

It totally changed for me.. so I guess it is the same for everyone who find themselves with a new sex partner.

[Tomcat33]

According to the bible she is only breaking vows if he is following God and she refuses to follow him. And since he is in an affair it is obvious that he isn't following God. If he loved her like he loved himself, according to the vows that God made with man, he couldn't treat her the way that he is.

 

And to say that because one person does something wrong it gives one the right to reciprocate, makes absolutely no, because we would become a society of vigilantes. Whatever he has done, he will be held accountable for independent of what she did. As she will be independent of what he did. You don't get to say I did wrong because of this. We don't let our children get away with that crap, so why should we use it as an excuse to behave like children?

 

I am not saying that two wrongs make a right. What I am saying is that people are so quick to point out the obvious taboo that society deems as unacceptable, of going outside the marriage for sex, because it bruises the ego. But depriving your spouse of sex and a chance to fix the intimacy from is just as bad and it also breaks vows and bruises the ego.

 

 

Bible/god: some people don't believe in the bible or religion and don't adhere to extremist views. A person who is so devout to his bible just killed his teenage daughter here in Canada this past week because she refused to follow her father's religious footsteps, fanatisism happens with religion and people start doing things that they deem as ok simply because the bible says so. What sense does that even make?

 

 

Also to the people that offered the being paralized example, that's why god gave us a mouth to communicate our intentions. If in a marriage one partner becomes paralized you would think the two people would discuss the turn of events openly and frankly to find a solution that is fair for both parties.

 

Surely if you love someone you would not want to subject your partner to a life of sexual depravation because you were sexually handicapped, that's just selfish. You would think the person would at least give their partner the option of seeking sex outside the union and then it would be up to them to want it or not.

[sb129]

Yes but they had numerous arguments about her periods and the fact that she does not seek any medical help... she rather have her periods than have sex...

 

Then why should he leaves his kids for being a 'weekend' dad? I don't think it would be fair for him to sacrifice his comfortable life, his kids, his financial security.. it's her fault, not his.

 

They are 'happy' cause she knows nothing, she thinks she has the perfect husband that doesn't beg for sex (she thinks he's OK with it now) ... he gets what he needs on the side.. I do too... so we're all happy.

 

Surely if you love someone you would not want to subject your partner to a life of sexual depravation because you were sexually handicapped, that's just selfish. You would think the person would at least give their partner the option of seeking sex outside the union and then it would be up to them to want it or not.

 

I think you have some valid arguments Tomcat, but in the example Lizzie is using, the W doesn't know that he is getting sex elsewhere.

 

This is the main problem I have with it. Lizzie says everyone is happy, but only two out of the three adults in the situation know the full truth.

IF the W knew the full truth and was happy with it, then that would be different, but she doesn't, and I don't think she would be happy with the truth.

 

Communication is key.

[Lizzie60]

I think you have some valid arguments Tomcat, but in the example Lizzie is using, the W doesn't know that he is getting sex elsewhere.

 

This is the main problem I have with it. Lizzie says everyone is happy, but only two out of the three adults in the situation know the full truth.

IF the W knew the full truth and was happy with it, then that would be different, but she doesn't, and I don't think she would be happy with the truth.

 

Communication is key.

 

Of course she doesn't know.. why would he tell her? He knows I don't want him full time. so why would he hurt his kids and his family just because they do not agree on sex... I'm sure they get along fine in every other aspects... I'm sure she is a good mother... I know he is an amazing dad.. he adores his kids.

[marlena]

I am not saying that two wrongs make a right. What I am saying is that people are so quick to point out the obvious taboo that society deems as unacceptable, of going outside the marriage for sex, because it bruises the ego. But depriving your spouse of sex and a chance to fix the intimacy from is just as bad and it also breaks vows and bruises the ego.

 

 

Bible/god: some people don't believe in the bible or religion and don't adhere to extremist views. A person who is so devout to his bible just killed his teenage daughter here in Canada this past week because she refused to follow her father's religious footsteps, fanatisism happens with religion and people start doing things that they deem as ok simply because the bible says so. What sense does that even make?

 

 

Also to the people that offered the being paralized example, that's why god gave us a mouth to communicate our intentions. If in a marriage one partner becomes paralized you would think the two people would discuss the turn of events openly and frankly to find a solution that is fair for both parties.

 

Surely if you love someone you would not want to subject your partner to a life of sexual depravation because you were sexually handicapped, that's just selfish. You would think the person would at least give their partner the option of seeking sex outside the union and then it would be up to them to want it or not.

 

 

TC,

 

I could have written this very post. Therefore, whatever I might have to add is redundant!

 

I totally understand where you are coming from! And this is not the first time I bask in the refreshing objectivity of your posts!

 

Marlena

[marlena]

IF the W knew the full truth and was happy with it, then that would be different, but she doesn't, and I don't think she would be happy with the truth.

 

No, the truth would devastate her! Some things are better left unspoken. Lizzie is not making any demands on her MM. For this, I applaud her.

[marlena]

Bent,

 

Love is both!

[Mustang Sally]

Lizzie,

It's curious, isn't is, why he would stay with her if she is unattractive and has so many issues regarding their sex-life. I wouldn't be able to do it, myself. However, as you have pointed out, there certainly are other reasons for him to stay - kids, status, etc.

 

This is interesting to me that he has told you she is his "best friend." I think I can empathize with that, from my own personal situation. I just haven't been one to decide that it's justified for me to go outside my M for sex. Just my way of doing things. Obviously, for others, it goes different ways...

 

I don't have any advice for you. And I'm not sure that you wanted any, anyway. But it is interesting to ponder why certain couples are together, isn't it? I have a friend at work that I wonder the same things about...but he's not a lover of mine, or anything. It just reminds me that the only two people who really know what goes on between them are the two people, themselves. The rest of us are just speculating.