(Kinda long) Am I worrying too much? Do I have a chance at this point??

[sigurpol]

I kind of want to make this as short as I can, since theres a lot to talk about.

 

But, I've been dating someone for about 2 years now (little over 2 years). We've had a couple problems here n' there. We've broken it off a couple times, due to myself being very overwhelmed and confused. But each time, I come back to her apologizing about what happened, and doing my best to fix what happened and addressing my problems.

 

A little background on us, and her.

- I'm her first real boyfriend

- She is a virgin, and I haven't pressured sex on to her

- The past times I've tried to get back with her, I was kind of on hold with her decision. I gave her as much as as she wanted to think about what I had to say.

- Usually, I've done some sort of very very large gesture (because I want to) to bring back some kind of romance in our life after these "breaks".

 

 

Recently, it happened again (breaking up). And I was home for Thanksgiving and didn't see her for about a week, since she lives kinda far. (We go to the same school). We didn't speak for a few days, but I called one evening to see how she was doing. We talked for a little, thats it. But over break, I found myself regretting this decision as I always do. And it eats up my life.

 

So I decided to see a counselor. Not because I was depressed, but because I wanted to figure out this problem with someone I would love to spend my life with. Basically it boiled down to some past instances with my own family, some commitment issues, and the fact that I purposely ruin things in my life to fool myself into thinking I have some sort of control over things. It's usually a result from being stressed.

 

Anyway, her and I went out to dinner the day I got back from Thanksgiving break. After dinner, she said that she doesn't know why I took her out, but that it's different this time. "I can't be with you when you're always doing this, I'm going to be different this time", she told me.

 

I finally explained to her that I was seeing help. For myself, and for her. To fix whats wrong, because I truly do want to spend my life with her. And that I know we always end up like this, but I'm getting help. And that I hope I can still be apart of her own life after all these rough times the past year. And that she could find someone who doesn't do things like this, but I want to show that I can fix things, and that it's more than just saying, "I'm sorry".

 

She said she was impressed, but she can't be with me still. We both need some maturing, she said. And it sounds like you have, but this can't happen right now. However, she asked me to stay and watch some TV with her. When I left that night, she kissed me a bunch of times and I told her that I promise to figure my own life out before I try to be apart of hers.

 

During the next few weeks, she would have me spend the night at her place sometimes. Sometimes it got intimate. Sometimes she would call to ask if I wanted to watch a movie, or go eat. I would call her and ask the same sometimes. I bought her a Christmas gift that shes wanted, but couldnt afford it, I even bought her parents a gift. She loved the gifts, and got me one as well. However, I left for winter break before she could get it.

 

The day I left for break, we just talked for a little, she hugged and kissed me and I said that I would miss her while I was home, she said the same thing.

 

But since I've been here in my town, I just start worrying like crazy. I feel like she ends calls shorter than usual, doesn't call me as much. Or isn't as... flirty? Like she usually is. Is this all in my head? Is it because I'm away now and having some kind of separation anxiety?

 

One night, after she had been drinking for a while, we we're laying in bed. She said to me, "I could kiss you forever, you know that?". I said, "I could too. If I was allowed". We kinda talked about "us" for a little. And she said, "you know I can't be with you right now." I said, "well, when? Do you know?". She said, "I have to know. You have to show me you've changed." So I've thought about that.

 

Before anyone says anything, I haven't drowned myself in her life. My options are open.

 

What should I do at this point? Should I start being really distant? Or would she think that I don't care? We've talked a lot about ourselves, I don't want to beat a dead horse. Does she seem distant because we literally are, right now?

Do I even have a chance anymore?

Thanks for any help.

[Ronni_W]

Well, she has said that she can't "be with you right now". That requires distance, and perhaps she's finding it easier to be emotionally distant than physically.

 

I can't see specifics of what she wants "changed" -- are these personality traits of yours that you want to improve, too? Or, are they things you need, want and like that she's just not into?

 

Congrats on seeking counseling! I would definitely continue that...NOT for her or for "the relationship" but only for yourself. To learn more about YOU and improve what YOU want to improve; to figure out what you really want out of Life and relationships...and what you really want to put into Life and relationships

 

You may be spending too much time with her for YOUR OWN good. She kind of seems to be wanting the best of both worlds...and I'm not trying to be unkind to her. You both sound like really great people.

 

But you are her first love. She is right that she needs to explore Life on her own. And that may include dating others, seeking new experiences that she may not want/need to share with you. (You probably know this?)

That will be her "growing up, expanding" -- and will not be any reflection on you at all (although that's hard to take when it's happening.)

 

Yes. I would start to cool things...because that is what she's asking for as well as anything else could just end up pushing her away further and faster.

Not be purposely mean or anything, maybe even tell her that you're doing your best to work on your stuff, which includes ensuring (as best you can) that you don't experience one HUGE heartbreak down the road.

 

Best of luck to you both.

[sigurpol]

Thanks for the input!

 

The specifics she wants changed are my own traits. They're reasonable, nothing crazy. Just that there were some times when she would take ME out to dinner, and after dinner, I would just go back to my apt to work on some things. When really, I could have spend some more time back at her place. A lot of it was me just putting her on my back burner.

 

I've thought about the fact I may be spending too much time. The past few weeks, we hung out every few days. I tired not making it a point to call her everyday. We kinda went through something like this before, when it totally seemed like she wanted the best of both worlds. So I think this may be the same thing? It's harder to play all this by ear, since she's two hours away for the next month.

 

I think you're on the right track with just cooling it off, giving her space, etc.

Thanks so much!

[sedgwick]

i would just like to applaud you for being a young man who decided to seek counseling out of a desire to be a better partner. that takes a lot of maturity, wisdom, and courage. now stop breaking up with that girl, dammit!

[Ronni_W]

It's harder to play all this by ear, since she's two hours away for the next month.

 

Or you could look at it like: it's *easier* that she's two hours away...gives us both the time we need to figure out what we each want and need to move forward with and without each other. -- Reality doesn't change but your frame of mind does.

 

 

And, I *totally* agree with Sedgwick...but I already had all those other words, and didn't want to make the post even longer .

 

Hopefully it's not a case of her taking you out to dinner (or whatever) SO THAT she can feel somehow entitled to manipulate/guilt you into <whatever she wants>. Hopefully it was just a case of your being a bit thoughtless right then.

 

The thing about starting to be more considerate of others...you need them to help you AND to be patient with you. Yes, mostly it is on you - you need the awareness that you're not, and the desire to want to be (which you already have both)...but, when you guys get there, do ask her to not just jump on the very next instance where you go back to your old, er, more "selfish" way.

Like getting rid of any bad habit, it takes practice...and you ARE going to fall off the wagon.

[sigurpol]

Again, thanks to the both of you for the input. I really appreciate it. Especially since I've been on other forums around the internet for help, and all I ever get is: "she's using you. Get rid of her". Or just some pessimistic view. Everyones posts here really give me something to think about.

 

Anyway, her taking me out was just something she did, and yea, something to kinda show me that I was being thoughtless at the time.

 

I do understand this takes time and patience. I'm willing to take things as slow as I can to ensure that things can work out. Although, I hate bringing up "talks" with her. Mostly because I always bring them up (she does sometimes, but I usually bring things up because I become worried and anxious). I feel like right now I should avoid any talks, and just kinda do my best and ride things out.

 

Perhaps I could visit her one time during this break? For a weekend? I don't know if that would be a good idea.

 

Thanks again!

[Ronni_W]

I meant it takes patience on BOTH sides. In terms of doing the hard work of actually putting the changes into practice, yep, that's your job .

 

I would suggest that when you start feeling worried and anxious, deal with it in a more appropriate way -- use your counselor, support network, journal, etc. It's basically "emotional vomit" (fear, insecurity, neediness, etc.), which cumulatively is just going to be a huge turn-off for her.

 

It's not our partner's job to calm our fears and help us heal our "issues" ...as kids, that was on our parents; and as adults, it is on us. Dumping it on a partner puts them in a parenting role and makes us like a powerless kid.

 

There are two perspectives to visiting her:

[1] Hers. How does she feel about a visit from you? Maybe she'd rather you come for a day than a weekend?

[2] Yours. What's your motive? (a) To spend time with someone you love, have some fun and enjoy each others' company? Or (b) to allay your fears, "check up" on her, stay on top of her mind, do what you can to control the situation in your favour?

 

After you've thought about it and discussed it with her, I promise you will know whether or not it's a "good" idea -- which doesn't necessarily mean you'll do what you know is best...we humans do like to complicate things for ourselves . But at least whatever you end up doing, it will be with awareness and clarity. And THAT is always a good thing . Wishing you the best.

[sigurpol]

I feel ya. I hope me becoming so worried is just me BEING worried and looking into things too much. Often times I think to myself, "this is hopeless. She's acting different". But then I think about things she's said, done, etc. She hasn't dismissed me from her life yet.

 

Perhaps I could only visit for a day, if me showing up would be okay with her. Every December, her parents have a Christmas party. Maybe that would be a good time?

 

My motive on going to see her? In all honesty, to spend time with her and just get to see her. I don't want to check up on her, I don't like being that kind of person. But I view it as showing that I really mean what I say, and this would be a way of showing her that. That I care enough (if invited), to drive 2 hours for her Christmas party. Which is exactly what she was talking about the one evening. She made some comment about a week ago when she had me over, and we were just laying down. And she said, "I could lay here with you forever". And I said back, "I could too. If it was okay with you". She just replied with how she knows that, but can't be with me right now. I asked "well, when?". She said "I don't know, not now, you know that. You have to show me this isn't going to happen again. How do I know if I get back with you, we'll be fine for a couple months, and you'll do this again?"

 

Ugh, so difficult. I wish, along with everyone else in the world, there was some action I could take to ensure everything will be fine between us.

 

Thanks again!

[wowIlose]

I just read the original post and the problem is you need to stop putting her on a pedestal. She sounds like shes attracted to you on some level but because your letting her know your hers she is getting both of best worlds and will never get back together with you at this pace.

 

You need to show her your value is either higher or equal to hers, you need to show your fine living without her, miss a few of her phone calls, if you normally talk to her once a week, skip a week.. than skip two. When your with her don't talk about how you want to get back together but rather try to spark up her emotions. Kissing, touching, getting her excited, if these options are still open than please stop talking about how you want her and need to be with her because shes the "one" and always leave her wanting more. This is the best way in my opinion to respark attraction and move things in the right direction.

[sigurpol]

I agree with you.

 

I do try my best not to give her all this attention. When we're together, I never bring up "us", or have a talk, or plead. I just spend time with her. Unless she brings up the topic about us, I never do. Unless it gets to a point where I have to ask questions.

[Ronni_W]

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do, to "ensure" anything -- even your own feelings, likes, dislikes, etc., are changing and will continue to change over time.

 

On the same track, do NOT keep looking at what she said/did in the past -- her feelings, likes and dislikes are ALSO CHANGING. Allow the change, accept the change, embrace the change. EDITED TO ADD: She IS acting "different"...that is part of this whole process.

 

Also, you're gonna stay "stuck" if you do too much day-dreaming of "when we shared this nice thing, when she said that and I responded this..." Stop that cos it isn't productive!

 

I like the idea of you saying something to the effect of, "It'll be no problem for me if you want me to come for the party - I'll happily do that." (But promise not to get into a whole begging and pleading thing, if she says 'no', alright?)

 

Kind of off topic: Don't BE worry...just feel it or experience or something. BE a wonderful person -- BE love -- BE positive stuff. And let the negative stuff stay something outside of your Self. (Hope this all makes a bit of sense.)

[sigurpol]

I follow you. Kinda just, "be here now". I can be familiar with that.

 

I'll take your advice on asking her about the party. Which is this Friday, I kinda brought it up when we were on the phone today. But I'm assuming we'll talk again before Friday, and I can bring it up in the manner you said.

 

Thanks so much again! All these posts give me a lot to think about.

[Ronni_W]

...about the party. ...I kinda brought it up when we were on the phone today. ...before Friday, and I can bring it up in the manner you said.

 

Wait up! What has she already 'messaged' you about that party???

 

I'm asking just in case you're kind of "refusing to hear" what she's actually, really, truly saying to you. That would be coming from your old, "more selfish" habit . No sweat -- better do it here than with her, right?

Cos I'm thinking you ALREADY gave her the chance to invite you...and she did not invite you. (But I'm just kinda going on instinct here - doesn't mean it's correct.)

 

Referencing your earlier post: I'm not seeing it so much as you giving her "too much" attention as the *wrong* kind of attention, which is any that comes from a place of "worry and anxiety" (neediness and insecurity.)

My understanding is that she wants less of your "me-centred" attention, and more of your "her-centred" interest. Part of that is learning to listen to what she is AND IS NOT saying. (Like just listening isn't hard enough, huh?)

 

I just had a thought, if you're interested: Google "active listening". I think you may get a lot out of learning about it and --BIG BONUS-- it likely will also help your relationship.

 

Wishing you the best over the Holidays.

[sigurpol]

Well, I ended up going to the party after I asked if she wouldn't mind, cause I wanted to see her.

 

I had brought some Christmas gifts for her and her parents, since they got me some. But, when I got there... I was ignored the entire night. She barely spoke to me, or even looked at me. It was pretty upsetting. Finally I just said, "I think I'm going to bed... where's it okay to sleep?". She said, "anywhere is fine".

 

So I just laid on the couch. She eventually came downstairs and sat with me and we watched TV. We kinda got intimate for a moment, and she said, "I can't do this. I can't be with you". (How the conversation went from here, I can't exactly remember. Due to me being so upset.)

 

But I explained how I wanted to wait to talk, but since it's in the open, I'll tell my side. I explained that I've really been tying my best, and getting help, talking to a relationship coach, reading books. That this doesn't have to happen now, or anytime soon. Just that I hope when I get through all of this, she's willing to give this a try again. And I went in to tell how how she makes me feel, that I understand how she feels, etc. And that I'm really scared at the moment.

 

Her response was still no. She went in saying she has to stop doing this back n' forth game, and that I've said this all before. And that she doesn't mean to be "a bitch", but she needs to move on, date other people, be in other relationships. She added that I can't want to be in a relationship with her when we're apart, then not act that way when we're finally in a relationship.

 

She also went on saying that I shouldn't think of her so highly, because she treated me poorly and that she took me for granted? I don't know why she said that. But she also said that I need to show her that I can be in a relationship. I asked how, she said, "I don't know."

 

During all of this, I noticed she wasn't looking AT me. So I asked if she could look at me when we're talking. She said, "If I look at you, I know I'll take you back"

 

And the final remark was, "maybe when you're ready, however long it takes.... whether it's next year, 2 years from now or whatever, and we cross paths, maybe we can work something out. But until then, I can't be with you. I have to move on"

 

There might be more that was said that comes to mind, but that's all for right now. I told her she could go to bed, and I'll sleep on the couch.

 

Part of me wants to just loose all contact with her when I go back home. Her brother talked to me that night about us, and I told him what happened. All he said was, "... I'm really sorry man. I seriously love you, we all do here. We'll figure something out." I don't know if he said anything to her, or what. I don't want to get the entire family involved.

 

But, I'm still up here for today and tomorrow. She's at work right now, and I walked to my friends apt. Right now I'm just being very distant with her. Mostly because I'm angry and upset. But part of me feels like it isn't quite over? I don't know it's odd. I don't know what to do from here.

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone who offered help.

[Ronni_W]

Ouch, yes, I can see that you'd feel upset...and sad. Not too much of a "Christmas" feeling, is it? Sorry you are going through it.

 

I think she said "maybe years from now" just to stop a conversation that she TRULY has no more interest in. And the thing about you not thinking of her too highly just hoping that you will step off. These aren't so much mixed messages as trying to let you down easy.

 

[she said] she needs to move on, date other people, be in other relationships.

To be honest, I don't know what part of what she said your are misinterpreting or not getting. For her, IT IS OVER. She has been honest and clear with you. I don't know how you'll get to a place of understanding and respecting her words.

 

If you choose to continue to pursue something that is so clearly over, it could have quite the opposite effect of what you hope for the future. You would be allowing your neediness to completely over-shadow her wants and needs, and when that happens it is really difficult to even think about staying friends with the person who is acting so self-centred.

 

Now, it does suck. There's never a good time to get dumped, but this time of year somehow makes it harder. I really am sorry you are going through this. Lean on your friends and support network, and just take one step at a time. Sending hugs and good wishes.

[sigurpol]

Yea, I understand what you mean. It's difficult for me to come to terms that it's over.

 

Anyway, I'm doing my best to cut the communication off with her. Cause she still calls me or texts me during the day. So it's tough to deal with that.

 

Thanks again.

[Ronni_W]

<BIG hug> You're welcome - sorry it didn't work out like you'd hoped.

 

I know it's tough. You can ask her to not contact you for a period of time - month or three or whatever to give yourself some time to clear your head. You deserve that, if you think it'll help a bit.

 

God bless.

[sigurpol]

I don't know where this post is supposed to go, but I just feel like typing at this hour at night.

 

I will warn you though. I'm angry right now, and in a bit of a satire mood.

 

On Sunday evening I was driving to my friends place to hang out with some people, when I had some panic attack. I usually get them, and have medication for it, but I think my nerves were so shot, that I just had one. And so I pulled over, and took out my phone to call my ex. Because thats who I used to call when this happened.

I told myself not to, but I ended up calling. She talked for a bit, but said she had to go because she was at the movie. Like a MORON, haha, I asked who she was with. She said, "... oh... my friend. Eric." I think we both knew how I felt after hearing that, so I said, "Oh. Well then I'll just let you go, goodnight".

 

I don't know who this guy is, but I know it's one of her boy crazy friends who think they can play "match maker", because they have nothing going on in their lives, besides going out to the TRASHIEST places to get drunk, dress like absolute prostitutes, slut it up, then wonder, "WAHH, Why can't I find a normal guy?!" Oh it's breakin' my heart.

 

She said she was sorry, and for me to please text her later so she knew I was okay. I scoffed at the idea, but I did text her before I went to bed (hours later). She texted back saying, "Thank you for letting me know. I really hope you feel better. By the way, don't see (name of movie), it sucks! Not worth the money!". I just said, "haha, thanks. goodnight".

 

I called her on Christmas day to say Merry Christmas. She answered saying that, talked for a little, and I said I would talk to her some other time.

 

From this point on, I've told myself: no phone calls, no texts, NO ONLINE COMMUNICATION, NO talking to her friends about anything or family members, NO checking up on whatever the hell she has going on. Good riddance. Have fun with whoever you want in the stupid college greek community (sorry to those if I offend you with that comment), and guys who can't wait more than 3 days to get in some girls pants, get dolled up, and look for a fight every evening.

 

Even her friend told me to keep in touch with her. She said just give space, be nice and how you've always treated her, she's just confused.

 

(I'm obviously at an angry stage in my life). It's nice to hear her friend say that, and everyone say, "She'll come around, man. No one has ever treated her like you". Gives me something to think about. Sometimes I wonder if she even thinks about me still.

 

But until now, if she wants to make contact with me, thats up to her. I'm so tired of never getting angry. For never telling people how I feel when I get walked on. But I do feel bad for the things that I've done to her, for all the crap I put her through, so I might not have the right to be so angry right now. But I think I wouldn't be if I wasn't fed a bunch of false hope for a month, only to go Christmas shopping for her and her entire family, drive 2 hours to see her, and be ignored all evening. Then again... I wasn't invited.

 

And I honestly cannot wait till this break is over to be back at school, near her, just to give her an excuse to call and say hi. Get bent.

 

*Exhale*

 

Again, I'm truly sorry for kinda being stereotypical in this post. But, I just had to vent something.

Edited December 30, 2007 by sigurpol