This is a mess...

[zomgsavemymarriage]

I dont even know where to begin...

 

My wife and I are married for only 3 months, but have been together for almost 2 yrs. I am 29 and she is 25. Everything was great in the beginning, I was sure she was the one. Things were so perfect I couldn't believe it. I did not want this one to slip away so I asked her to marry me.

 

And then things started to change...

 

Most of our issues center around our sex life, which got steadily worse as time went on. First I'll tell you a little bit about me. I am the kind of person who needs affection, to be touched occassionally, and I am a sucker for romance. Sex is one of the ways I like to express my feelings of love towards someone(Not the only way but it is important to me). I am also a person who can compromise so that the other person is happy too. But after dealing with her whirlwind of emotion and physical problems there appears to be no compromise that helps my needs.

 

I want to explain the issues that she brings to the relationship that I think are the core problems.

 

First are her emotional problems. I mentioned above everything was "perfect" in the beginning. This included just general affection such as holding hands, sitting close to each other watching movies, random moments of heavy kissing, etc. It went from that for a few months and then all of a sudden she became cold. Hardly any affection, she did not even want me to sit with her on the same couch. She claims "shes not an affection person" and never will be. It has been this way up to this very day. We have talked to this death, I've tried very hard for even just a reasonable compromise. She won't even flatter me by letting me sit close to her while watching a movie on a Saturday night. Affection and being close to someone is very important to me, it is something I need in a relationship. I am very bitter and resentful that I just have to settle for "I'm not an affectionate person" and just deal with it. And I am still baffled as to why all the affection for just a few months and bam its gone. Clearly there is something wrong here.

 

Without the affection, this also affects our sex life. We were very passionate lovers at one time, and now the flame is gone. It hurts me very much. She stopped enjoying my attempts at being romantic, almost to the point of being angry and hostile at me. I have always tried to make her feel special, and went at great leaps to do this. I have made my attempts now at being romantic very minimal, and still with little response from her. And she has NOT once attempted anything romantic, no surprises, nothing!

 

Intiating sex has become very hard for me now. Most of the time I am met with a cold response, or anger. She swears up and down she will never initiate sex(but does rarely) and I am fine with this but please don't act in such a negative way when I try! I feel this puts me into a no win situation. I have become very timid when I try to bring up sex because I'm afraid of her response that usually just ruins the mood. Approaching her for sex sometimes feels like I walked up to a stranger at a bus stop and asked them for sex, the reaction being like "get away from me" and very cold.

 

I have other issues with her being inconsistent about her claims of being "nonsexual" and this has to do with her past. I want to clarify first, that I am NOT jealous that she has past sexual partners, I think this way of thinking is ridiculous. I have past sexual partners as well, so it would be hypocritical for me to even get jealous. What bothers me is a particular phone conversation we had, and a few other moments.

 

During this particular phone conversation during the beginning of our relationship she decided, on her own admission, to tell me all kinds of sexual things she did with past boyfriends. I have no clue why she did this(mind game?), and at the time it did not affect me too much because our sex life was good. There was a couple things she told me in particular that night I considered to be bizarre sexual behavior, and they rot away at my brain now, especially since our sex life has soured so much. The conversation was so long ago I'm not 100% sure about the details, but it consisted of her being 14 or 15 yrs old, a guy around 25, and a video camera. This is very disturbing to me. She also proceeded to tell me about having sex in public places, giving road head, things of those nature. Once again, I have no clue why she told me this stuff, and when she told me these things it was almost in a bragging tone. And there was a couple more times during the relationship she admits being overly sexual with other men, usually with men who treat her bad and the relationship was chaotic. And from what I can gather men who are "nice guys" don't get those opportunities.(Like me)

 

Ok, what really bothers me about this, is the fact she is choosing NOT be a sexual person with me. I am no way in any shape or form accepting this type of answer, and it will continue to affect how I feel about her and our marriage. As far as I am concerned if she was fully capable of being sexual with other men, then I want the same thing too. I am NOT accepting answers like "shes changed now and not like that anymore". I am open sexually with her, and have a strong desire to satisfy her needs and will not be insulted with her "too bad that is the way it is" attitude. She has destroyed things I enjoy sexually with these kind of mind games and I hold deep resentment about this. Another example(appologize for being graphic) occasionally she used to give me oral sex, then all of a sudden my orgasms were too intense for her and my semen tasted bad. She has ruined this pleasure for me and will not do this anymore thanks to her obscure way of thinking. As if all other men's semen she swallowed tasted like strawberry milkshakes and mine is just so horrible. Insulting!

 

She also has a physical problem as well. She suffers from endometriosis. The combination of my sex drive, her odd emotions, and endometriosis has become horrible. I feel very bad and it took me a long time understand what kind of pain she goes thru sometimes. She has dealt with this disease since she was a teenager. Her condition is very hard for both of us to deal with. There was times when sex was painful, and I had no idea what she was going through. And because of the mind games she played, and dealing with such hateful lines like "I'm not going to have sex with you so you can get off!" I couldn't tell if she was being honest about the pain, or was it another attempt for her to not have sex with me. After many conversations, and me doing research about her disease I have a better understanding of what she goes through.

 

Another thing that bothers me about her endometriosis, is that she claims for the first time(with me) that she started to have pain during sex. So I'm forced to believe since she started having sex at a early age and up to now that this is first time pain happened during sex. I want to believe her, but is this another mind game? And I also get tired of her hiding behind her endometriosis as if that is the only reason why we hardly have sex. She has periods of time when she is pain free, and our sex life is still the same so I wish she would stop saying this.

 

Since I have heard every excuse in the book, it is hard for me to sort out when she is being serious or just finding another lame attempt to avoid sex.

 

Some other reasons why we dont have sex...

Never during daylight because she is obsessed about how she looks even tho I have reassured her hundreds of times on how beautiful she is.

 

We never have "make up" sex, if we have ANY kind of conflict she won't have sex at all.

 

She is obsessed with watching TV for hours after work, during this time I better not hint having sex.

 

I love her, care about her, think she is gorgeous, but all this is slowly spilling into our relationship and turning me very bitter! If this stays the same or gets worse, I can only see this marriage lasting a year or two.

 

We have talked to this death, went to counseling, agreed on a compromising that she doesn't stick to, and I don't know what to do! Is this a no win situation? I know she needs therapy for herself, but I don't know if I can wait that long to see if she can change. I'm very confused and hurt. We are lucky to make love 2 or 3 times a month and we are newlyweds!

 

One last thing to make this situation more confusing, when we actually get to having sex she seems to enjoy it and is very turned on. No need for any lubrication, and she always has 1 or 2 orgasms. Very odd for someone who doesn't like sex.

 

There is many more details I could talk about, but I think I got my main point across. I will gladly answer any questions, and look forward to your advice/opinions.

 

Thanks in advance and happy hollidays!

[noirx]

Wow - this sounds like you were writing about my relationship with my wife. She doesn't suffer from endometriosis (sp) but her responses, the TV watching, "too bad - this is the way I am, live with it!", "I'm just emotionally distant"...are all the same as what your situation is. We've been married for about the same amount of time, as well - makes it even more freaky.

 

You said you've done counseling - has she went to counseling? Have you two went as a couple? When you've suggested it, what has her demeanor been? I'm assuming (since our situations are so similar) she just gives you, "we can work this out on our own." She needs to come to realize that you can't and you guys need outside help.

 

She seems to be ready to dismiss your needs, which is obviously where your resentment and bitterness come from. She seems to have drawn a "well, this is just the way things are" hard line in the sand and is unwilling to compromise. What you need to do now is make her understand that you're unwilling to live like this and you either need to seek marital counseling or get divorced. I'm sure you love her very much, but it isn't worth where you're headed. And as much as I hate to sound cliche, "sometimes love just ain't enough". You'll wind up hating her (and her you) and do more emotional damage than you realize. You need to draw the same hard line in the sand, put your needs and feelings out on the table. If she's unwilling to compromise, she doesn't love in a deep way that one's "live long partner" should. If that's that case, you've pretty much got your answer. You know you deserve better, and bitter is no way to live (I can personally attest to this). You can't teach someone to have passion (that "spark") for you; they either have it, or they don't. That is a hard pill to swallow, I understand.

 

And don't "apologize" for the oral sex thing. She wants you to accept her the way she is (as well you should) and so should she. This is part of your need for "touch" in the relationship, and it's completely unfair of her give you the "too bad". It'd be like her wanting flowers (as one of your core needs) and you stopped buying them. Either you both want to make each other happy (and sometimes this is doing things you don't want to) or you don't; it's about that simple. Counseling or divorce - there are no other options.

 

One other thing...In my situation, I have the added complication of a baby on the way. I can primarily suggest to you that WHATEVER you do, don't get her pregnant. It will make the situation 100x worse. It will become her scapegoat for everything and it doesn't sound like she needs anymore excuses. This is especially true if she tells you "a baby will make us closer". That is the biggest lie ever told. You shouldn't need a baby to make you two closer anymore than you need a second woman (or man) in your marriage. You're husband and wife - that closeness should already exist.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know it doesn't help your situation now, but I have to ask the obvious question - why on earth, given the history, would you marry this woman? You've only been married 3 months, so you had to see the headlight of this oncoming train during your engagement. How do go through with a wedding to someone that says "get away from me" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[annieo]

I am frankly amazed by the number of men posting on this subject. How horrible! Not just the no sex part, but how these women try to make their husbands feel like disgusting vermin for wanting to have sex with them. That's what I would find the most hurtful, being treated like I'm an unattractive pest.

My h and I (thankfully!!!) have a great sex life, mutual needs/wants in terms of frequency and what we do, but there are times when I'm not in the mood. So I own it. I say, "Baby, I'm just not feeling it right now" and if possible, explain why (fatigue, need a shower/feel yucky, pissed off about something,whatever). I have never, NEVER tried to make him feel like he's gross and that's the reason I don't want him. I love him, so why would I want to hurt his feelings?

And sometimes (and I must admit, he's the first to do this to me) I'm in the mood and he's not. At first, I can remember feeling rejected, took it personally, but we talked it out and I realized that sometimes guys aren't up for it (so to speak .

I do think that sometimes women avoid non-sexual affection because they feel like it's always going to lead to sex, or pressure for sex. That might explain her unwillingness to get cuddly and close.

And endometriosis is real and can cause real pain (or so I've been told). I'm assuming she's been to a doctor about this. I'm not sure, but if it's severe, I think there are procedures that can help lessen the discomfort, or maybe lifestyle/diet ways to address the problem. I have PMS that can be pretty severe for a couple of days a month, and I have found a couple of herbal/diet ways of making it less hellish for me (and my h and kids).

But she has to want to get things back on track with you. I really feel badly for you, and all the other men on ls who are being emotionally abused over what are totally normal, healthy, reasonable requests/requirements for love, affection and intimacy. She has no right to treat you like crap over this. Don't put up with it, let her know she is being selfish and unkind, and for crying out loud, don't internalize it to the point that you can't enjoy a blowjob ever again, or feel like there is something horribly wrong with you. I don't see any evidence of that, only that you seem like a nice, sexually generous, affectionate and romantic man. You sound like a catch. She needs to wake up to this.

[zomgsavemymarriage]

@Noirx - I read most of the problems you are going through and see we have similiar issues. Yes the TV watching is an issue, she turns into a zombie just focusing on the TV. Sometimes I think if i was on fire she wouldn't even notice. I don't mind watching our favorite shows or renting movies with her, but she is way too much of a couch potato.

 

Heres an example, the weekend after our honeymoon we were both off work together. During the week it was the normal hard work, too worn out, too many things to do so I don't have any intimate time for you. And besides we both work hard during the week so I try to be considerate and give her time to rest and do her own thing. Anyways, back to the weekend, so guess what did we did the ENTIRE weekend after our honeymoon. Watch TV of course! The entire weekend! I was so depressed, she set the table of what kind of marriage this is going to be.

 

I get to use the same logic she used against me when we would argue about sex. One of her favorite lines was "We will have each other the rest of our lives to have sex, so don't get upset." Now I tell her "We have the rest of our lives to watch TV, we are only newlyweds once." She usually gets quiet after that one.

 

Does your wife have a hyper sexual past, and then claims she isn't a sexual person to you? I think it is horrible that I have to deal with this.

 

About the counseling, before we got married I reached my boiling point and our relationship temporarily ended. My wife works in the healthcare field, and one of her benefits is free counseling. She brought it up, and it was up to me if I wanted to go along with it. We gave it a try, and we did the counseling together, always together in the same room with the dr.

 

And just like I suspected the dr. was really concerned about my wife's issues. I'd say 70% of the sessions the Dr. focused on my wife. She even tried using some of her strange logic and losing her cool around the Dr. That prompted the Dr. to get on her more. We only went for a few sessions, and basically we came to a compromise that consisted of me being understanding of her physical problem and support her when she is having pain. And when she is pain free, for her to be open sexually with me, and I all wanted was sex 2-3 times a week. This would make me happy and I would back off the issue. Well guess what? The compromise barely worked for about 1 week and here comes the same garbage I was used to dealing with. Coming up with every little reason to avoid sex, and making me feel guilty if I still pursued after her. If she stubbed her toe at work, it was the worst thing that happened to her and I was an evil bastard for wanting sex that night.

 

My wife will acknowledge she has issues but is as far as it goes. She really needs therapy alone to work through her problems, and maybe someday she can enjoy an active sex life and appreciate affection more.

 

I am not ready for a divorce, the marriage is just beginning. I want to compromise so we are both happy, and I'm willing to give it some time. Not years and years, I simply refuse to live my whole life miserable with someone.

 

About the oral sex thing, it's not a major issue. Just another spiteful thing she has done to rob me of sexual pleasure. I am upset knowing she sucked down the sperm of other men, but when it comes to me she doesn't like the taste so she stops doing it. Unacceptable and very insulting. I can live without oral sex, but I am not dealing with her dumb logic on the matter. Actually let me go into more detail on how she ruined it for me, and how she just picks away. One day I was in the mood for oral sex, and knowing she did this for me before without making a fuss over it, I didnt see a problem bringing it up. When I did she immediately shot it down with "Too much semen and your(not "it" she has to word it your) semen tastes bad" Kinda shocked, I just replied "What are you talking about? Wasn't an issue before." I dropped the issue, but a couple months later, again I was in the mood and this time I tried to compromise reasonably. Like no swallowing, or not finishing in her mouth. But now the issue was there is pre-ejaculation, and she went on about her jaw locking up. One thing after another.

 

And if anyone is wondering, yes I do offer this pleasure for her. She refuses everytime. I have absolutely no problem doing it for her and I'm actually dissappointed she doesn't like it. And I wouldn't make her feel bad or guilty after doing it.

 

Could you list more bizarre excuses your wife comes up with to avoid sex or dealing with the issue? I want to see how similiar they are.

 

 

 

@Mr. Lucky - Other than the sex and lack of affection I think she is wonderful. She makes me laugh, we enjoy doing other things together, and I am so attracted to her. I guess deep down inside I still have a small fiber of hope that we BOTH can be happy someday. She has a different way of showing how she cares, by working hard for us, keeping a nice home, cooking nice meals(shes a good cook). And she always comes home to me, but thats where it ends, and I need a little more.

 

I just want a compromise we both will stick to for the majority of our life so we both are happy. I know everyday will never be a lovefest, I don't want that either. But she needs to open up a little more before I lose all my interest.

[Mr. Lucky]

@Mr. Lucky - Other than the sex and lack of affection I think she is wonderful.

I'm sorry my friend, but I have to laugh every time I read a statement like this. "Except for sex" ??? If sex wasn't vitally, intrinsically, emotionally, sustainably, basically and inherently important to you, you wouldn't be posting here.

 

"Except for sex", there wouldn't be a LoveShack forum ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[zomgsavemymarriage]

@annieo - That is great you and your husband have a great relationship! I know it is possible for 2 people to be happy and understanding of each other.

 

I see your point about women not wanting a lot of affection because they are afraid it will lead to sex. When we were really affectionate with each other, I'd say only half of the time it lead to sex. I am well aware there is a certain place and time for intimacy, and just time to be close with each other without sex. I also think if a woman is afraid of affection because it may lead to sex, there maybe some issues with that person. Just having that "fear" says there is something wrong.

 

We both have a total understanding now about her endometriosis. I will never know what the pain is like but I try to listen and understand. BUT keep in mind her endometriosis is NOT the real issue about our sex problem. The real issue is her attitude about sex when she is not having pain. For example, she might go 2 weeks to a month with random pains in her sides. Sometimes they are light pains, and sometimes they are so intense she has to sit down. They can happen anytime, sometimes the pain will last for hours, sometimes a few minutes. If she is having a period of time with pain it is pretty safe to assume sex will also hurt. I have backed off, and try to be supportive. Then the next month she will be pain free, so you think she does her part and is open with me then right? Nope, this is where all her mental problems come into play. It is getting harder for me to be supportive when we dont have sex when she is in pain, and when she is not in pain. No win situation for me!

[annieo]

Thanks for the kudos on my relationship - it isn't perfect, but we're in it for the long haul (or I am, anyway) so we work on things. Long may this continue.

I understand what you are saying about feeling confused by her unwillingness to have sex when she's pain free. But perhaps she has (mentally) come to associate sex with pain, because penetrative sex (again, from what I have heard from a friend) can be intensely painful for a woman with endometriosis. Is she afraid of bringing the pain on via intercourse, when she is happily pain free? Would you be happy with some smooching and a hand job if she is not feeling like intercourse (or oral)? If yes, then tell her this directly.

I think she is feeling afraid, and instead of verbalizing it and facing her fears, she's doing the classic projecting trick and trying to blame you. I can't imagine she feels very good about this, but it gets her off the hook temporarily.

Also, you've got to stop thinking about what she's done with other people in the past. It just doesn't apply. Maybe her pain has gotten worse over time (in fact, I'm pretty sure that this is the case with endometriosis. The places where the hormone sensitive tissue is tend to grow and spread). Who cares what she got up to in her crazy past. We all (or many of us) have one. Her past behavior has nothing to do with now, or the two of you. Let it go and focus on finding a solution. And good luck. Nobody ever said marriage was easy. But a good relationship is worth the work.

[zomgsavemymarriage]

Fear of being in pain is a possibility, but we also come to the agreement if we start to engage in sex and if there is pain then we stop. She usually flips out if I bring up alternative ways of sexual satisfaction(oral, handjobs etc). And remember she doesn't like affection so we don't do anything else. I have no problems with not having sex and just laying next to each other and kissing, things along those lines but it never happens.

 

I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with your opinions about dealing with her past. It applies because I believe that your past can have an impact on how you treat people in the future. I think I live in the shadow of her past by her CHOOSING to be less sexual with me because of certain things she regrets in her past. She told me herself "It's hard for me to change(meaning being open sexually) once your not going to be that kind of person anymore". She has to remember it is NOT my fault she put herself into compromising situations in her past. She CHOSE to do those things. And if she can be open sexually with some guy who hardly meant anything to her then she can sure as hell be open with me! I am not 100% happy with all my past relationships but I would never hold this over her, and never would rob her of any pleasures she enjoys because of mistakes I made in my past. If she chooses to not be sexually with me even though I have given her everything, then I guess I need to start changing too. I'll just pick out things she enjoys and stop doing them for her. And if she asks why, I'll just repeat the same verbal diarhea she spouts at me, "Sorry I've changed."

 

 

Please keep responding, it feels good to get this off my chest. You can see my resentment is growing towards her.

[annieo]

Fear of being in pain is a possibility, but we also come to the agreement if we start to engage in sex and if there is pain then we stop. She usually flips out if I bring up alternative ways of sexual satisfaction(oral, handjobs etc). And remember she doesn't like affection so we don't do anything else. I have no problems with not having sex and just laying next to each other and kissing, things along those lines but it never happens.

 

I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with your opinions about dealing with her past. It applies because I believe that your past can have an impact on how you treat people in the future. I think I live in the shadow of her past by her CHOOSING to be less sexual with me because of certain things she regrets in her past. She told me herself "It's hard for me to change(meaning being open sexually) once your not going to be that kind of person anymore". She has to remember it is NOT my fault she put herself into compromising situations in her past. She CHOSE to do those things. And if she can be open sexually with some guy who hardly meant anything to her then she can sure as hell be open with me! I am not 100% happy with all my past relationships but I would never hold this over her, and never would rob her of any pleasures she enjoys because of mistakes I made in my past. If she chooses to not be sexually with me even though I have given her everything, then I guess I need to start changing too. I'll just pick out things she enjoys and stop doing them for her. And if she asks why, I'll just repeat the same verbal diarhea she spouts at me, "Sorry I've changed."

 

 

Please keep responding, it feels good to get this off my chest. You can see my resentment is growing towards her.

 

Don't be sorry, I am wrong frequently. I didn't realize that she USES her past to justify her current disinterest. That's just silly, and you seem to realize this. But I don't think that throwing her horny past in her face is going to be anything but counterproductive. Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy (I can't believe I'm quoting Dr. Phil!!!).

Totally understand your anger and maybe a little tit for tat might get her attention.

[Cobra_X30]

Yes... she is rubbing her past in your face to hurt you.

 

She is a headcase... and honestly it sounds like she may have been abused in the past.

 

I'd say her internal monologue is really bad. See, some women only superficially appreciate it when you treat them well. Deep down she sees your niceness as weakness, and the fact that you think well of her makes you seem less.

 

It's like this. She doesnt like herself, yet you love her. That must mean your not worth much. I'm not sure I am explaining this well... but basically what I'm saying is that your wife is pretty much mental. You can't fix her... if you want to save your marriage Demand that you two attend marriage counseling! Otherwise... learn to live with the situation... and she is probably going to learn to disrespect and dispise you over time!

[Cabbage Patch]

I was in this situation once, but i was the one who wasnt affectionate. When i was first with my partner I was really affectionate and loving towards him but then I felt myself becoming distant and not as attracted to him as I used to, this happened after about 2 years.

 

I put it down to the fact that he had hurt my a lot and I simply didnt have that attraction for him in the end. Everyone's situation is different. My partner was very affectionate and always needed hugs and stuff but I always used to say i'm not an affectionate person. In the end I left him because I simply couldnt give him what he wanted and there was obviously a reason why I wasnt affectionate towards him anymore (although I didnt know the reason at the time)

 

However I have been with someone else for a while and it is totally different, I am affectionate towards him etc and we are very passionate. I dont know if this has helped you or not, but just get comfort in the fact that it isnt unusual...

[MJTig]

.

 

... and honestly it sounds like she may have been abused in the past.

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

 

I'd say her internal monologue is really bad. See, some women only superficially appreciate it when you treat them well. Deep down she sees your niceness as weakness, and the fact that you think well of her makes you seem less.

 

because she is used to being treated badly and used by previous "boyfriends".

 

It's like this. She doesnt like herself, yet you love her. That must mean your not worth much.

 

Plus sounds like she has been made to think in her early romantic/sexual relationships that she is only good for sexual things... and maybe she fears you will start doing that so she is hypersensitive. She stopped being affectionate because she fears that.

 

Thing is, these kind of things usually comes with a heap load of denial and pushing it deep down or away. Like the way she reacts to you and the counselor. Unfortunately you cannot fix this for her.