serial muse Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 SD, I'm not saying that you're being dishonest. I think that your view of the situation is going to reflect your position in the situation more than you think it does. I don't think your view of their relationship matches what you'd get as his view...or hers. And I think that perhaps if you got HIS view, you might change your perspective on things. Yes, this is the thing that's worried me from the start of this thread. I don't think SD is wilfully deceiving himself or us; but I think he's believing pretty blindly and fervently that his personal subjective experience is the objective truth, and that says to me that no matter what happens, he's going to be in for a rude awakening. Mind you, I think that's true even if she does leave her husband. As others here have noted, her stories just don't add up neatly. There's too much deceit going on. Occam's razor - the simplest answer, based on her actions, is that she not only wants them both, because they give her different things that, combined, make her feel happy and secure, but she also hates being in the position of "the bad guy." Thus, she hasn't yet made up her mind, has told the two of them different things to keep them both just satisfied enough not to force things, and is struggling with what she really wants. That is NOT how SD sees it. He can't. He thinks her mind is already made up. Which is why he can't get himself to see why her husband doesn't just give up and walk away. From his point of view, it's so obvious. And you know, at some point she may indeed choose to get a divorce, and will likely represent that decision as her intent all along. But that picture doesn't quite gel with SD's "destiny and fate" image of their relationship. And so I worry about SD's blind belief in her. She doesn't deserve it. One other point about the husband telling SD that they've had a nearly sexless marriage. I don't doubt that that's what SD heard. But, forgive me, SD - I think you're a nice guy, but not what I would call a good "reporter." You don't look at things very objectively - in fact, you seem a bit disdainful of the very idea. That's romantic and idealistic, of course, but it doesn't give me endless faith in your ability to really read a room. I suspect he said something more figurative, and you took it literally. Sorry, I know I'm speculating. But that's what makes sense here. And sometimes it helps just to think about what makes the most sense, when you're trying to understand a confusing situation filled with half-truths and mixed messages. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Or he's busy breaking NC. I know I thought that too but didn't want to write it out... But seeing as we all just LOOOOOVE to speculate, I'll end on that note. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 but she also hates being in the position of "the bad guy." Thus, she hasn't yet made up her mind, has told the two of them different things to keep them both just satisfied enough not to force things, and is struggling with what she really wants. I agree. Stamps has said, "Why hasn't her H let go and moved on? Why won't he divorce her..." Just like I'm sure MW's husband is wondering why Stamps is still in the picture. It all comes down to the MW and what SHE is doing, thinking, feeling. Honestly, I think she doesn't know either way - She's scared to give her marriage another chance, scared to let go of Stamps, scared to make any real changes BECAUSE for 3 1/2 years she's had two men in her life, living a double life. Now, she's been forced to choose and she can't, atleast not yet. She knows she HAS to give her marriage a chance because of the kids sake, though that won't ever really work, she won't be able to fully focus on trying to recapture feelings with her H because she has Stamps in the background, waiting for her. It's impossible for her to open her heart again to her H with Stamps still IN her heart. Yet, with that being said, obviously something is still there between her and her H, otherwise as soon as D-Day happened, if she truly wanted OUT of the marriage and wanted a D, she would have just done it. Living two separate lives for 3 1/2 HAS and IS affecting her now, in the present. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Nah, he isn't the one who breaks the contact first, it's her. Though, he isn't great at ignoring her attempts of contact. Just hope she isn't in his house again. Anyway, I give him the benefit of doubt, since it's so close to XMas, he's probably shopping, and being with his daughter and family, friends etc. Or, maybe his internet is down! Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Living two separate lives for 3 1/2 HAS and IS affecting her now, in the present. Exactly - and what worries me is that SD is so sure that she lives only for him, and her life with her husband is of no real consequence to her (aside from the kids). He's so sure of that. It hurts to read. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know I thought that too but didn't want to write it out... But seeing as we all just LOOOOOVE to speculate, I'll end on that note. I am here... watching all of the "speculation".. I love reading peoples posts telling how I feel, what I think... It's OK.. Im OK Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I am here... watching all of the "speculation".. I love reading peoples posts telling how I feel, what I think... It's OK.. Im OK I'm sorry if my posts have offended you. That wasn't my intention. I really do wish you luck. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 So, are any of us on the track or off the track? and what worries me is that SD is so sure that she lives only for him Yeah but he has every right to feel that way as the MW is giving that impression off. I still stand behind what I said, I don't think she knows 100% what she wants, especially right now with holidays, birthdays, anniversary's coming up- Things can change, and go either way. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I'm sorry if my posts have offended you. That wasn't my intention. I really do wish you luck. NOBODY has offended me.. There have been only a couple posters that came in without reading the from the beginning that piped off when they chould have read more.. And none of this "loop" of you folks are them. No big deal anyway, I am a big boy Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 And you know, at some point she may indeed choose to get a divorce, and will likely represent that decision as her intent all along. But that picture doesn't quite gel with SD's "destiny and fate" image of their relationship. And so I worry about SD's blind belief in her. She doesn't deserve it. But does it matter if it was her intent all along, or if she said so knowing that perhaps she was confused all along and not 100% sure she WOULD divorce? does that really matter in the grand scheme of things if in the end she does end up divorcing? I mean do we really know what anyone "really" feels and thinks before they make a life altering decision? Does her husband really know what drove her to get married to him in the first place or vice versa? Does anyone know what a partner's real motives are ever? Or is that not what trust is for and we base trust on what is shown to us? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I am here... watching all of the "speculation".. I love reading peoples posts telling how I feel, what I think... It's OK.. Im OK Heeeeyyy Stamp, you're there!! I always thought in my own threads when I was not posting and people sepeculated, this was almost like being at your own wake! Sorry for the morbid analogy but that's how my brian is wired sometimes... Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Heeeeyyy Stamp, you're there!! I always thought in my own threads when I was not posting and people sepeculated, this was almost like being at your own wake! Sorry for the morbid analogy but that's how my brian is wired sometimes... Hey TC... you sicko j/k It does one good just to sit back and watch (or catch up) with what everybody has to say.. Make you think a little more when you are not "in the middle of it".. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 But does it matter if it was her intent all along, or if she said so knowing that perhaps she was confused all along and not 100% sure she WOULD divorce? does that really matter in the grand scheme of things if in the end she does end up divorcing? I mean do we really know what anyone "really" feels and thinks before they make a life altering decision? Does her husband really know what drove her to get married to him in the first place or vice versa? Does anyone know what a partner's real motives are ever? Or is that not what trust is for and we base trust on what is shown to us? As it happens, I agree that it does not necessarily matter, TC. You're preaching to the choir. My point, however, was that to SD, it apparently does matter. It's a question of being able to sit in the uncertainty of not knowing what's going to happen, and accepting that things aren't black and white and that she may still be torn about what she really wants (and that that is why neither she nor her husband have yet chosen to divorce), vs. needing to believe that everything is already decided but the paperwork because it helps to confirm that your relationship was somehow "meant to be." I don't disdain that attitude; I just worry about it in this situation. That's my concern - I'd much rather SD viewed things as you wrote, and that he was willing to take a more grounded attitude about her. And perhaps he will; it's early days yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 As it happens, I agree that it does not necessarily matter, TC. You're preaching to the choir. My point, however, was that to SD, it apparently does matter. It's a question of being able to sit in the uncertainty of not knowing what's going to happen, and accepting that things aren't black and white and that she may still be torn about what she really wants (and that that is why neither she nor her husband have yet chosen to divorce), vs. needing to believe that everything is already decided but the paperwork because it helps to confirm that your relationship was somehow "meant to be." I don't disdain that attitude; I just worry about it in this situation. That's my concern - I'd much rather SD viewed things as you wrote, and that he was willing to take a more grounded attitude about her. And perhaps he will; it's early days yet. Here is the situation: EVERYTHING matters to SD. "He feels that he has had a pretty good sense of what is going on with HER. They are close enough, they communicate enough and they "live" enough within each others lives to know what is going on with each of them.." We DO have trust with each other. I DO know that YES she is torn. She is a mother. And it is VERY difficult to separate the H from the children internally. HOWEVER This Divorce thing is in motion. H has told his family. H and MW have agreed to get thru Holidays, although the dynamics of some of the "gatherings" have been altered. MW's parents are coming into town and she is trying to gear up to tell them.. They want the "focus" to be on the children over Christmas and then "get to work" after the New Year.. There is now another diminsion this takes on for ME... Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you're in NC, how did you hear this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you're in NC, how did you hear this? Don't do this... Let me put a stop to this right now.. The last couple of days has been a whirlwind.. I have been very busy, I have gone out with friends, and tonight me and a good friend are taking our 2 sons to Morton's for a nice steak dinner... I've been Christmas shopping, closing down the year at work, painting etc, etc.... YES there has been contact, she got ahold of me to tell me what has been going on, and YES, she is scared.. Let's NOT ridicule her for being scared. This is a life altering situation for alot of people, mainly her children, but it happening, it is real and it is NOW... NOW, we have agreed that there is a long road ahead of us in EVERY way.. We have said our "goodbyes" for a while and when it is time, will slowly start to re-connect.. Until then, there is ALOT of work to do.. I am asking you guys for support, in the fashion of not beating me up, but understanding that I have been honest and sincere about all of this with you and not saying things to hear myself talk, but truly wanting advice and perspective, which you all have given.. I appreciate it very much Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Your thread, your call. Have fun. Link to post Share on other sites
Author stampdaddy Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Your thread, your call. Have fun. Have fun with what?? See, why do you have to do that? Link to post Share on other sites
Mino Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Don't do this... Let me put a stop to this right now.. The last couple of days has been a whirlwind.. I have been very busy, I have gone out with friends, and tonight me and a good friend are taking our 2 sons to Morton's for a nice steak dinner... I've been Christmas shopping, closing down the year at work, painting etc, etc.... YES there has been contact, she got ahold of me to tell me what has been going on, and YES, she is scared.. Let's NOT ridicule her for being scared. This is a life altering situation for alot of people, mainly her children, but it happening, it is real and it is NOW... NOW, we have agreed that there is a long road ahead of us in EVERY way.. We have said our "goodbyes" for a while and when it is time, will slowly start to re-connect.. Until then, there is ALOT of work to do.. I am asking you guys for support, in the fashion of not beating me up, but understanding that I have been honest and sincere about all of this with you and not saying things to hear myself talk, but truly wanting advice and perspective, which you all have given.. I appreciate it very much Hi, I have been following your thread, Just be prepared, I heard that myself, just want to get through the holidays, Here we are another Christmas. no change yet. Somewhere along, family is coming, not a good time, family gone, child birthday, oops her birthday, I been in it myself ( over 3 years) Good Luck to you stampdaddy! Hi TC, enjoying your post as always, Hope your doing fine:) Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I am asking you guys for support, in the fashion of not beating me up, but understanding that I have been honest and sincere about all of this with you and not saying things to hear myself talk, but truly wanting advice and perspective, which you all have given.. I appreciate it very much If you don't want the negative feedback, it might be good to just post on other's threads and PM those you feel are supportive... And just a heads up, sometimes the posts on LS will affect your R, if you let them...It gives you a more negative mindset from the get-go...If you're having a particularly bad day, PM someone you trust... You have all my support...Be careful how much info you give out on the forum, k? GEL Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Hi TC, enjoying your post as always, Hope your doing fine:) Hiiiiiii Mino!!! WOW long time no see how are YOU doing? I'm well thanks. And just a heads up, sometimes the posts on LS will affect your R, if you let them...It gives you a more negative mindset from the get-go...If you're having a particularly bad day, PM someone you trust... So SO true! We are our own worst enemies at the end of the day and the more negativity we allow into our heads the more it plays back at us.. On the other hand it's good to think of both sides...but I am on the fence as to what's helpful and what is just doing ourselves more harm. Link to post Share on other sites
kchiapet95 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 If you don't want the negative feedback, it might be good to just post on other's threads and PM those you feel are supportive... This is what I have ended up doing. I also have posted updates on my situation, but that is about it. The updates were few and far between. There are some nasty people here, but there are some really wonderful people here also. (You saw it on my thread, I'm sure.) You're better off PMing those whose advice you really value. Link to post Share on other sites
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