do girls hate guys that are to nice

[Lovegod]

but realistically how does a man go from being a "nice guy" to behaving in the way you're describing?

 

By not giving a damn about the consequences of his actions.

 

It would surely have to involve some kind of radical personality change.

 

Not really. All he needs to do is realize that women are humans, just like he is. She just happens to be a human of the opposite sex and is physically attractive. Other than that, there's really nothing incredibly spectacular about women.

 

I've met men who behave in the way you're describing, and it can be pretty alluring...but that approach has quite patently been part of their personality. You can see it in the way they deal with all kinds of different people and situations.

 

Do you think that we're born with this personality? HELL NO. I've done the nice guy thing, and I ended up with lots of female friends. I was worried about offending them because I believed that women didn't like being offended by anything. When I quit giving a damn about offending women, that's when things began to change. I've never been slapped by a woman for making an arrogant comment, I've never been slapped by a woman for poking fun at her for something, and I've never been slapped by a woman for letting her know she's sexy. The only woman who's ever slapped me is my mother, but she's a c*nt.

 

When a normally nice guy tries to pull the bad boy stuff in an effort to be more interesting, however, it can really set other people's teeth on edge and have a counterproductive result.

 

Not sure about putting people's teeth on edge, but it's pretty easy to smell a phony. To truly pull off the "bad boy stuff", a person does need to change their personality, or at the very least, their morals.

 

Possibly you naturally veer towards the sort of behaviour you're advocating.

 

...and I'll never go back

 

However exciting a bad boy might be, it doesn't compete with that warm buzz you get when you meet someone who you find attractive and who you also trust and respect as a man. That takes a brand of confidence and character which "how to be a player" strategy books just can't cover.

 

The books on "being a player" can actually amplify the effect of a confident, fun and exciting person. But without that, all you get is maybe a few dates, a few lays, but can never keep the woman for any length of time.

 

I think this kinda stuff works for immature women but you'll drive the more mature women right out of your life if you try this game of mental yo-yo. More mature women have been through this before and they can see right through the act.

 

Actually, it's been quite the opposite. Immature women are very turned off by it, but the matured ones find it fun and exciting. Hey, if a woman is tired of dating corporate businessmen who buys her flowers on the first date and enjoys talking about computers, a guy with the ability to excite her emotionally is going to be a breath of fresh air. Whereas younger, immature women get dumbass hormonal 20 year olds all the time, and they want a "mature guy" for a change.

 

Women don't want an *******

At least they say they don't, but actions speak louder than words.

 

Women want to know that if some auto mechanic's trying to rip her off at the repair shop that her man has the balls to show up and straighten his ass out.

Women don't need this anymore. They're now independent enough to vote and be people's bosses, so they can ream out their own mechanic.

 

They want to know that their guy has the nads to ask his boss for a raise once in a while. They want to know that they're dating a champ instead of a chump.

 

Here's a news flash: The guys who have this kind of confidence and high self-esteem will have no problem with making fun of you for your obsession with your hair. Alas, the "a55hole" usually comes with the package.

 

Woah, I just looked at your profile, and YOU'RE A GUY! I thought I was debating with a feminist.

[KenzieAbsolutely]

 

Women don't want an *******; they just want someone who doesn't take any crap, and there's a very good reason for this. Women want to know that if some auto mechanic's trying to rip her off at the repair shop that her man has the balls to show up and straighten his ass out. They want to know that their guy has the nads to ask his boss for a raise once in a while. They want to know that they're dating a champ instead of a chump.... you just have to be internally strong and communicate that naturally by what you say and, more importantly, by what you do.

 

i think this sums it up quite nicely, actually. (i got rid of the 'macho' reference, because to me, macho=cheese factory.) but the rest of it, right on. just like i know i can stand up for myself at the mechanic (just to reference your example) i like to know i have someone who is willing do it for me if i couldn't.

 

this also means he will put anyone in their place if necessary, and this includes me. someone who stands up for him/herself shows self-respect and confidence, and that's attractive.

 

everyone gets caught up (as you can see from the copious theads on this very same subject) in the nice guy vs. a-hole argument. it doesn't matter how many times you say neither extreme; obviously no one listens.

[popey]

Doing all these can be in addition to being nice though, not in place of, of course.

 

absolutely

[Green]

The title of this thread is meant to get a specific answer... Do girls hate guy that are to nice... of course not... do girls sleep with guys who have no sex apeal... usualy nott

[Pyro]

I consider myself a really nice guy.... got lots of friends to prove it... however here is my problem.... all these girls I meet.. end up saying "you are such a good friend" beginging to think I will be stuck in the friend zone for ever... most of my friends that are married or have someone, well I can not believe the things they do or say to their girl friends/wives... things I never would... what is the deal???

 

You must be the shy type. I bet that you have some great conversations with these women. I had the same issue as you many years ago. I am willing to bet that you talk to them, but you have never tried to take it to the next level, meaning you have never expressed your interest in them or you have never sexually flirted with them. If you keep it at the conversation level, the woman will eventually lose her sexual interest. (assuming she had some to begin with)

 

I hope my post made sense.

[Green]

made sense to me... and if it makes sense to the op he's already one step closer

[Pyro]

Sweet deal.

[Pyro]

But "a55hole" is a horribly generic term. When I refer to the word "a55hole", I'm talking about being slightly "mean", and then being nice. You repeatedly go back and forth to each of those, and you're going to drive her wild.

 

I agree that confidence is a large part of the equasion, but confidence alone will not allow you to trump her boyfriend, her ex, her crush, or whoever she's already partially attracted to. You need to make yourself valuable* as a man, and you need to make her feel. I know this 5hit doesn't make much sense to other men, but that's honestly the best way I can describe how intense attraction works.

 

* = value as in having other women attracted to you, not as in being nice and trustworthy and reliable and romantic.

 

 

What is your definition of "slightly mean"?

 

I disagree about needing to make yourself "valuable" in her eyes. There are other ways to grab her attention.

[Trialbyfire]

I disagree about needing to make yourself "valuable" in her eyes.

If she doesn't already see the value in you, she's not the right fit.

[amerikajin]

If she doesn't already see the value in you, she's not the right fit.

 

I think the advice on some of these speed seduction web sites talks about creating "value" to get in some unsuspecting naive chick's pants...in other words, lying your azz off. One site I read actually recommended having a fake conversation on a telephone and telling girls that you're a stock broker or a salesman. so as to convey the impression that you're loaded with money. I'm just wondering what happens when you run into someone who knows the truth and blows the cover. Much easier to just tell people who you really are and put a positive spin on the truth as opposed to making it up.

[underpants]

Wow.....

 

How do you recover from all that deception and false pretense?

 

My guess is that you can't.

[Trialbyfire]

I think the advice on some of these speed seduction web sites talks about creating "value" to get in some unsuspecting naive chick's pants...in other words, lying your azz off. One site I read actually recommended having a fake conversation on a telephone and telling girls that you're a stock broker or a salesman. so as to convey the impression that you're loaded with money. I'm just wondering what happens when you run into someone who knows the truth and blows the cover. Much easier to just tell people who you really are and put a positive spin on the truth as opposed to making it up.

We had one member on LS who claimed to be a broker in his profile but apparently forgot and on a couple of his posts in a thread, claimed he was a lawyer.

 

While you can be both, it's impossible to do both jobs at the same time. I'm guessing he was an established member of some of these seduction sites.

[Lovegod]

What is your definition of "slightly mean"?

 

Here's an example: When she does something good, pat her on the head like a doggy and say "good girl!"

 

I disagree about needing to make yourself "valuable" in her eyes. There are other ways to grab her attention.

 

Women are incredibly competitive with each other, possibly moreso than men. They try to out-dress each other, they fight over discounts on nice clothes, and they compete for good men.

 

I think the advice on some of these speed seduction web sites talks about creating "value" to get in some unsuspecting naive chick's pants...in other words, lying your azz off.

 

With this type of value, there is no lying. Also, Speed Seduction is a type or brand of seduction that has its roots in NLP and hypnotism.

[a4a]

A nice guy is: A perhaps average looking guy, he watches lots of TV, his range of conversation is chatting about how he takes his coffee, he think a bouquet of roses is the ultimate in romantic gift giving. BORING..... low on the humor scale as well. I feel guilty around the "nice" guys.... the "bless his little heart" thing comes to mind.

 

Huge difference between a nice guy and a interesting fun guy.

 

Bad boys and jerks - I never bothered with them. Unless it was just to test out a new fork I recently acquired.

 

BTW most of the self professed nice guys are creepy in a very creepy way... possible blanket suckers. or jerks that really believe they are nice guys.

[Kenyth]

Women don't want an *******; they just want someone who doesn't take any crap, and there's a very good reason for this. Women want to know that if some auto mechanic's trying to rip her off at the repair shop that her man has the balls to show up and straighten his ass out. They want to know that their guy has the nads to ask his boss for a raise once in a while. They want to know that they're dating a champ instead of a chump. It doesn't mean you have to be a real macho guy (though it can't hurt), you just have to be internally strong and communicate that naturally by what you say and, more importantly, by what you do."

 

This is one of the best explanations I've heard. Be confident and don't be scared of conflict. Don't be scared of women and don't be scared to let them know you want them. Confident people are a little aggressive in getting the things they want. Women want to know that you want them. I had "nice guy syndrome" for a long time before I realized that most of my behavioral faults and dating failures had little to do with "being nice". They had to do with being wishy washy.

[Cobra_X30]

Women won't admit it... but LoveGod is correct.

 

If a woman feels she is better than you... ie... more powerful, smarter, more attractive to the opposite sex... ect. She wont want you.

 

Mature women are the same way. They still chase power and prestige. If you dont make lots of money... you better have something else going for you.

 

So if you sit there and act like a "nice guy" and a people pleaser... your basically saying to her that you are less... that she is better than you. You will lose her respect and sexual interest.

 

You need to say and show that you are better! That she needs to work to keep you!

 

Men respond best if they have to work to get a woman. Women respond best when they realize that they have to work to keep a man!

 

It's all basic biology. I'm speaking in general terms though... because smart women know how it works and have a firm grasp on themselves. I'd say as a percentage total... they tend to be rare!

[underpants]

Do you really want a woman that you have to hypnotize into being attracted to you?

 

I've seen some of these DiAngelo followers, and other PUA gurus.

 

I think some of the techniques are actually good in raising the confidence level of men and that can be a turn on. Some of those techniques are real turn off however. For the people that are deep into that sub culture, I would even venture to say that you attract very unstable people through this. Of course if the goal is to hump and dump and inflict even more psyc damage on someone attracted to a negatively charged romance then...well, good luck with that.

 

There is no pigeon hole theory when it comes to real relationships.

[Trialbyfire]

Women won't admit it... but LoveGod is correct.

One size fits all, rarely works.

 

If a woman feels she is better than you... ie... more powerful, smarter, more attractive to the opposite sex... ect. She wont want you.

Not necessarily. It's individual reliant. Father figure, equal or waterboy.

 

Mature women are the same way. They still chase power and prestige.

This is the cynical male way of thinking about attraction. You can't cookie cut women. Are women chasing power and prestige or are we interested in the dominant male in the pack?

 

If you dont make lots of money... you better have something else going for you.

Money isn't always the currency in attraction. No kidding a man had better have something going for him. Why would anyone want anyone who has nothing going for them? Is it wrong to want intelligence or a great sense of humour from someone?

 

So if you sit there and act like a "nice guy" and a people pleaser... your basically saying to her that you are less... that she is better than you. You will lose her respect and sexual interest.

Anyone who's a people pleaser needs some self-esteem therapy. You can treat someone well but if you allow everyone to step on you consistently, you're asking to be taken advantage of. Doormat v. real nice guy.

 

You need to say and show that you are better! That she needs to work to keep you!

Once again, individual reliant. Father figure, equal or waterboy. Different strokes, for different folks...

 

Men respond best if they have to work to get a woman. Women respond best when they realize that they have to work to keep a man!

I could easily spin this another way, from the cynical womens' perspective. Men have bigger egos, therefore have issues with a woman who makes them keep up to her. Is your cup 1/2 full or 1/2 empty?

 

It's all basic biology. I'm speaking in general terms though... because smart women know how it works and have a firm grasp on themselves. I'd say as a percentage total... they tend to be rare!

Cobra, you are cynical beyond words. You see everything as a form of manipulation.

[Cobra_X30]

One size fits all, rarely works.

 

True, however I'm talking percentages not 'one size fit

 

Not necessarily. It's individual reliant. Father figure, equal or waterboy.

 

Everyone has thier own pinch points, however the basic principal holds true for most women.

 

This is the cynical male way of thinking about attraction. You can't cookie cut women. Are women chasing power and prestige or are we interested in the dominant male in the pack?

 

I'm not so sure it's as cynical as it is realistic. I would agree with you only that its an oversimplification. However, I'm not interested in writing a novel.

 

Money isn't always the currency in attraction. No kidding a man had better have something going for him. Why would anyone want anyone who has nothing going for them? Is it wrong to want intelligence or a great sense of humour from someone?

 

Just because money isnt "always" the currency of attraction doesnt mean it isnt the general rule. I think money is the leading cause for divorce.

 

Anyone who's a people pleaser needs some self-esteem therapy. You can treat someone well but if you allow everyone to step on you consistently, you're asking to be taken advantage of. Doormat v. real nice guy.

 

Thats also oversimplification of a complex topic. The fact is that most people cannot tell the difference.

 

I could easily spin this another way, from the cynical womens' perspective. Men have bigger egos, therefore have issues with a woman who makes them keep up to her. Is your cup 1/2 full or 1/2 empty?

 

Are you suggesting that I am not realistic in my view of men also?

 

Cobra, you are cynical beyond words. You see everything as a form of manipulation.

 

I don't think that this is so. I believe that most people fail to rise above thier basic instincual nature. They fail to understand what drives them to think, feel, and act the way they do. Without understanding they cannot change.

 

As a species our mating rituals are complex. You freely admit that your not interested in the 'doormat' type nice guy. In fact I think you would agree that most women are not. So I ask you this. Should a man be as he is and just accept that most women will not be attracted to him? Or should he take steps to change, so that though he is still that man inside... he is no longer percieved to be a doormat?

 

Is that manipulation?

[Kenyth]

Most men who are doormats are trained to be so. Usually during childhood. Most men who are doormats perceive themselves as "nice guys".

 

Women hate this, because they want to be #1 in your life. More important than all the other people. Doormats can't say no, so the woman gets drug along for the ride and gets to play second fiddle to other people in your life on a regular basis.

 

You don't have to be an A-hole, but you do have to be balanced. If you havn't learned these skills from earlier in life, you will have to unlearn and retrain in order to succeed.

[amerikajin]

Most men who are doormats are trained to be so. Usually during childhood. Most men who are doormats perceive themselves as "nice guys".

 

Women hate this, because they want to be #1 in your life. More important than all the other people. Doormats can't say no, so the woman gets drug along for the ride and gets to play second fiddle to other people in your life on a regular basis.

 

You don't have to be an A-hole, but you do have to be balanced. If you havn't learned these skills from earlier in life, you will have to unlearn and retrain in order to succeed.

 

Very insightful.

 

I know all about "nice guys" because I'm a recovering nice guy myself. But let's not confuse nice with "nice". Nice is all about being comfortable with who you are; "nice" is the opposite. Women want the former, not the latter.

 

I'm sure a lot of "nice" guys have wondered, as I did, why is "nice" such a bad thing? I mean, women are always complaining about guys who abuse them either verbally or physically, or guys who never show them affection and, worse, cheat on them...I wouldn't do that at all, I would be "nice". Isn't that what girls want?

 

The problem is that "nice" leads to a lot of other problems that women don't want to deal with. What women wants to date a guy who doesn't stand for anything? What women wants a guy who would rather just be nice to people who abuse or mistreat him than to challenge them? What women would want to be with a man who won't stand up for them when they're in need? What happens is that women end up having to take care of their own emotional needs and then ultimately they end up trying to take care of the emotional needs of their partner. That's a lot of pressure a woman doesn't need in a relationship (men don't need it for that matter, either). At the end of the day, she's trying to be the ego booster while her own ego suffers without having anyone strong enough to turn to for support. Some women who are unsure of themselves at the beginning of a relationship and end up with "nice" guys later realize this and it ends up causing major problems in the relationship later. More confident women see it early on and just don't even bother.

[Cobra_X30]

Most men who are doormats are trained to be so. Usually during childhood. Most men who are doormats perceive themselves as "nice guys".

 

Very True

 

Women hate this, because they want to be #1 in your life. More important than all the other people. Doormats can't say no, so the woman gets drug along for the ride and gets to play second fiddle to other people in your life on a regular basis.

 

It has to do with how he treats her. Not how he treats others. A man can be a doormat with the rest of the world and be fine in a relationship so long as he does not treat her the same. Not to say she will not get eventually frustrated with this situation. However, this thread is about sexual attraction!

 

You don't have to be an A-hole, but you do have to be balanced. If you havn't learned these skills from earlier in life, you will have to unlearn and retrain in order to succeed.

 

Also Very True!

[amerikajin]

It has to do with how he treats her. Not how he treats others. A man can be a doormat with the rest of the world and be fine in a relationship so long as he does not treat her the same. Not to say she will not get eventually frustrated with this situation. However, this thread is about sexual attraction!

 

If you're out on a date with a girl and she sees that you *act* like some cocky, funny jerk with her but you can't even complain to the waiter when he f*cks up her/your order....she'll look at her watch, tell you it's getting late and say 'see ya'. Sorry but you can't separate the two: you have to be real.

[underpants]

If you're out on a date with a girl and she sees that you *act* like some cocky, funny jerk with her but you can't even complain to the waiter when he f*cks up her/your order....she'll look at her watch, tell you it's getting late and say 'see ya'. Sorry but you can't separate the two: you have to be real.

 

The same could be said for the guy that treats you so kindly, then lets you know what an utter biatch his ex was/is.

[Lovegod]

One size fits all, rarely works.

 

Hey, there's that comment again!

 

It amazes me how you cannot see that personality has nothing to do with instinctive traits. You can tell me how wrong I am, but the following generalizations are true:

 

Men thrive on logic

Women thrive on emotion

Men like pretty women

Women like masculine men

 

These are all very simple generalizations. Now, when you dig deeper into these generalizations, you begin to discover how each sex works. What makes up a masculine man? What kind of emotions or emotional changes do women thrive on?

 

When you start finding answers to these questions, you begin to realize how women generally work, and how they really are alike.

 

I've been on dating and seduction forums for the last six years and I keep seeing the same problems over and over again. Even this message board is full of repetitive questions from around the world. How many times do I need to see "I'm a nice guy, why doesn't she like me?" Well, you need to be more confident! But wait, according to some women on here, that kind of cookie cutter advice doesn't work because of varying personalities. So now we'll have to go deeper...

 

Are your parents divorced?

Did you ever sleep with a teddy bear?

Was she on her period?

When did her last pet die?

 

...and we continue to dance around the subject and get nowhere.

 

Give me a good reason why won't a cookie cutter solution work for cookie cutter problems.